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#4438336 - 09/11/18 04:00 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Adger]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by Adger
My 2p,s worth..People asking about other aircraft or looking to buy when it's more fleshed out. Guys there WONT be other features IF phase 1 doesn't sell it won't get fleshed out either without revenue coming in. Would any development team carry on with their product if it wasn't selling?
Would 1cs be able to produce BOM,BOK etc if BOS sold poorly? I wouldn't have thought so.

I can't even begin to imagine the amount of time spent by Winder,Pol and Matt (his musical score) already on this sim and one thing you get with these guys is..love. They love their products ,their support is phenomenal they go the extra mile to help. They patch (if required) often ,I've been a customer from OFF p3 so I know what these guys are about. They'll work tirelessly around the clock to make their sim "better" honestly they are probably the best Devs (along with LGM) that I've ever seen.

I purchased a couple of pizzas and some wedges chicken strips etc last Tuesday for me the missus and the teenage kids..it cost £26. It's only cost a few more quid for this sim. Madness when I think about it.

I'm certainly not here to tell people you " should " purchase,that's entirely their call,is the sim perfect? No not yet,IMO am I having a blast? Absolutely I am,is the Ai possibly even in this early stage the best I've seen in a sim god yeah it's incredible. That alone Personnally is worth at least most of the asking price ,add in the flyable craft the music,the campaign system and its a no brainier for me..I've payed way more than this for AAA titles only to end up disappointed,either with none existent gameplay or really poor Ai ( that really ranks with me)

Flight sims (good ones) are such a niche product. Most of us have been crying out for a new SP WW2 flight sim with excellent Ai and a excellent campaign system,well we've got one,one that knowing OBD will get better and better but ..only with support. No support No extra phases. And it'd be such a bloody shame if this series couldn't go on to become THE pivotal WW2 SP sim

Anyway like I said all that's just my opinion,somethings only worth what you as a individual are willing to pay for. The current price of $34.99 or bout £28 over here in Blighty is cheaper than a meal out.

Regards Adger



Opinions about all of that will vary. Quite honestly, and with all due respect, if posting about all the positives is allowed, then to be completely fair there should be no problem allowing other opinions. But that isn't really what happens.

Regardless, in order to give proper consideration, and ultimately make an informed decision, it would seem crucial to have all the facts. Which is, again, what it seems has been asked for.

#4438337 - 09/11/18 04:04 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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matmilne Offline
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You'll get a heads up when expansions are in development, along with their suggested price. Companies traditionally don't give details on future products until they're ready to be announced.


ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/matt-milne/1301047345
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/4HohtzSKX5P5lz885y3BPu
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Wings over the Reich, Rise of Flight, Woff, off 2&3, Photokill and Star Trek: Bridge Commander Kobayashimaru
#4438340 - 09/11/18 04:08 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: matmilne]  
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Originally Posted by matmilne
You'll get a heads up when expansions are in development, along with their suggested price. Companies traditionally don't give details on future products until they're ready to be announced.


So, you're saying that there were no plans concerning pricing of additional planes, even as the price was set for the initial release? Seems a little...unlikely, if nothing else.

Unfortunately, what happens "traditionally" has nothing to do with it. Just because something hasn't happened in the past doesn't keep it from ever happening.

EDIT: I should add that it seems clear at least some potential customers might want to know what can be expected, before making their decision about the initial release. Who's to say they're wrong?

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/11/18 04:12 PM.
#4438341 - 09/11/18 04:16 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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Space_Ghost Online content
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Matt, your pretentious answers aren't helpful and leave me questioning my choice in supporting OBD and WOTR - nobody is attacking the product so you can lay off the defense mode and the "belittling the intelligence or sense of other users" thing you're trying to do.

Frankly, is there an option for a refund? I could certainly file a charge back through my card carrier but if there is a proper way I think I'd like to take it.

#4438350 - 09/11/18 04:23 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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Yes, but it is only reasonable to expect what is practised, both by the company and the industry as a whole.
So you have to look to past products for the approach to release and expansion.

All we can offer is what there is, for the price it is set at, along with a general outline of future development plans.
There will be a full planeset, but until it can be decided on what goes into what expansion or update, we don't know what that will be. I can tell you, it will be in two weeks.


ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/matt-milne/1301047345
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/4HohtzSKX5P5lz885y3BPu
Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07NVS3WBV/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

Demo Reel https://soundcloud.com/matt-milne-8/sets/demo-reel-full

Composer - games, films, and tv.
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#4438353 - 09/11/18 04:30 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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I wouldn't call it accurate to say that the industry as a whole never gives potential customers at least some idea concerning pricing and features in advance.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a guy might want to know what a plane(s) he's interested in will cost, before he buys in to the initial release if it doesn't come with what he's interested in. Otherwise, he has no way of knowing what it's going to cost him to end up with a product that is what he wanted.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/11/18 04:38 PM.
#4438355 - 09/11/18 04:34 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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High over the Front
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How about we just take a deep breath. Noticed the sun still rose today.

#4438356 - 09/11/18 04:41 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Adger Offline
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear



Opinions about all of that will vary. Quite honestly, and with all due respect, if posting about all the positives is allowed, then to be completely fair there should be no problem allowing other opinions. But that isn't really what happens.

Regardless, in order to give proper consideration, and ultimately make an informed decision, it would seem crucial to have all the facts. Which is, again, what it seems has been asked for.



I haven't seen other opinions not allowed kksnowbear. In all due respect I Personnally knew what I was getting in phase 1 it showed us on the store page and more recently in the features list that Pol has stickied. I knew I was paying $34.99 for exactly what was posted,I wasn't expecting extra flyable craft etc for the money..if the Devs throw a few in then brilliant if not then so be it. I expect ( like other games) that new craft,theatres DLC if some people want to call it that to come at a extra price. Patches yes and possibly new features to improve phase 1 I expect for "free" but new craft etc..Nahh theyve got to earn a living somehow

OBD are most certainly still working on improving the sim. Perhaps they don't know future pricing,future aircraft or features. Like I said WITHOUT support there won't be any. Maybe they need to start seeing sales before they commit to more phases. Only they know..everything else including my post is just an assumption


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4438360 - 09/11/18 04:47 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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Things have not been finalised so we can't publish info

Is it reasonable to ask what is coming next and how much is it a few days after it comes out? Maybe
Is it reasonable to demand an answer or force us to release info we don't want to yet or don't have finalised? No.

Even if a company has all the future laid out (with 30 employees rather than 2) maybe they don't want competitors to know too early on what they are doing, maybe they have a few options they are mulling over - just give us some time please.

Some developers do not even communicate in forum - some large ones too but we try at least.





Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4438364 - 09/11/18 04:54 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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Pol, no one's trying to force you to do anything. Just a few questions, is all. Don't answer if you don't wish to, no problem - but others are entitled to their own ideas about it, too. And, realistically, they can choose to tie their support of this project to how they see things.

Adger, all I can say is it's not hard to see which opinions are welcomed, and which are not.

#4438369 - 09/11/18 05:08 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Pol, no one's trying to force you to do anything. Just a few questions, is all. Don't answer if you don't wish to, no problem - but others are entitled to their own ideas about it, too. And, realistically, they can choose to tie their support of this project to how they see things.



A. If theres no problem with OBD not answering about future plans yet, what is all the excitment about?

B. If people can choose to support or not support the WOTR project based on the devs lack of a public roadmap - and i firmly agree they can - they might also want to consider OFF didn't have a roadmap other than that OBD would release new phases as support allows (sound familiar?), and its still here 10 years later having been roundly claimed by numerous reviews as one of the best WWI flight sims of all time, having recieved numerous upgrades both in terms of free patch content updates and paid DLCs.

I'm okay without a specific roadmap because the developer trackrecord speaks for itself to me, but thats just me. You are entitled to feel differently. Check back from time to time and see if one has been given. Problem solved.

Last edited by Hellshade; 09/11/18 05:21 PM.

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#4438370 - 09/11/18 05:09 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Adger Offline
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear


Adger, all I can say is it's not hard to see which opinions are welcomed, and which are not.




And that's your opinion kksnowbear,of which your perfectly entitled to. Pol,could have just let the queries go over his head a lot of Devs have Zero interaction with their customers. But he hasn't he's given answers and OBD will give us more answers in the coming weeks/months


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4438371 - 09/11/18 05:09 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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Of course, and I have answered it. I can't give out info that isn't finalised internally, and that's reasonable I think. No point throwing guesses that people come back and pin down later.

As I say many devs don't even discuss anything.

One guess I can give you is I doubt any future flyable aircraft would cost more than the sim, it will cost less. When, how many aircraft we do, exactly how much I can't tell you.

IF we make enough to carry on we will do more, if not we won't. I can't promise anything yet.

If everyone wants to know the life cycle of the next products before they buy the current one then for sure there won't be any more additions. If we had dozens of employees yes we'd already be way ahead, and maybe have some more info, but we don't unfortunately.

Thanks Hellshade, every buyer of every product weighs up the things they need or don't need and buys or not, nothing we can do to change that, Nothing I will say here will change it either, but as you say it's not like we have no track record. People can look into it our past products, and see what usually happens. It's possible we may drop dead tomorrow but we intend to do what we can if support is there.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4438376 - 09/11/18 05:24 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Stache Offline
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Originally Posted by OldHat
Just guessing that it maybe similar to WOFF releases according to theme with similar price model..

eg Fokker Scourge, Balance of Power, Skin pack, etc...


Good point, hadn't thought of that.

In any event, it would seem fair and reasonable to want some idea of the plan/pricing going forward, which is what I believe was being asked above. We can all speculate and/or take guesses/ask a lot of questions which may or may not be correct, but it would be much less difficult to have the information from the source.


kknowsbear, Well as long as we are talking about opinions, IMHO asking for the plan/pricing going forward is not reasonable at this point in time, if ever.
OBD did not mention the flyable planes in WOTR release 1 nor its price until just before it was released.
Sure I would like to know also, but I can think of a lot of reasons why a developer would not want to discuss these items before they are close to having a finished product.
I know there are developers that do not talk about release pricing and offer scant on info future plans and/or release dates.
If you want to discuss opinions - perhaps a new thread should be started.

Sincerely,

Mike


Last edited by Stache; 09/11/18 05:27 PM.

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#4438378 - 09/11/18 05:37 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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matmilne Offline
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If we were on steam then individual planes could be sold as dlc, as they are in several sims, and you could expect a set price for that (and announced during their individual beta stages).
Pol's already mentioned the battle of france, and we're excited about the potential of other areas of the war.
(I've already sketched out some preliminary themes for that eventuality)

But as pol says, until we finalize development we can't provide finalized details, and will only announce that when we're ready to.

You get a great list of features for a sim, including its single-player driven design, and a choice of starter planes, in the initial product.

I recently bought trainz 2019. I like the company's approach to development and design and so supported that, having switched to the dlc-heavy railworks for a few years.
There's no list of trains, no list of routes, and no fleshed out list of features, simply because they're still working on it.


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#4438574 - 09/12/18 07:12 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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I wish all involved the very best of luck with WOTR. I won't be investing at this point, because my system, particularly the GPU lacks the necessary heft even to match the minimum requirements. However, I do believe there exists a good opportunity. There is a considerable demand for a good single-player WWII sim with a dynamic campaign and good AI. Those who have improved their computer systems, involving a move up to Windows 8 and10 will find that BOB II, the best alternative, is no longer an option on these platforms, IL-2 1946 lacks the campaign element, CLOD is predominantly a multi-player game, BOX similarly possesses neither the AI nor the campaign quality. Therefore, for those with these requirements and with systems that can play it, WOTR offers unique qualities.

Last edited by SkyHigh; 09/13/18 11:42 AM.
#4438609 - 09/12/18 10:14 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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The long slog to the perfection of WOFF was TOTALLY WORTH IT....how many years was that? Hope I've the stamina to see WOTR do the same. Doesn't matter what the cost point is....it's a pttance for the effort involved in making it....and to expect WOTR to be as easily accessible as WOFF right off the bat is unreasonable. I for one am appalled at how vulnerable I am flying WOTR....used as I am to the relatively leisurly pace of WOFF combat. Easy to be discouraged.....I was...but let it grow....and every dollar you put in to development is money back for all the WOFF patches and money forward to all the WOTR patches. So keep the faith....this ain't instant gratification....we're part of a start up......and if the stock splits 18 times...like WOFF UE....we'll all be richer for the trip. Sounds a bit rah, rah I know but there it is. Cheers all...........

#4438620 - 09/12/18 11:41 PM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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Adger Offline
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Fantastic start OBD,this sim is going places,it looks and feels fantastic even in this early stage.

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They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4439182 - 09/16/18 01:26 AM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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I love the OBD team and played WOFF for years. I wish they released the European theater first though. There are other options for BOB sims, but no one has an ETO sim on the market. BOB is kind of been there, done that. I know there is a huge audience for Thunderbolts and Lightening (P38).


EDIT: I'm still buying to support the great OBD team!

Last edited by teh_pwnisher; 09/16/18 01:37 AM.
#4439186 - 09/16/18 03:15 AM Re: Wings Over The Reich Now Released! [Re: Polovski]  
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