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#4436408 - 08/30/18 10:46 AM User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors  
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Manchot Offline
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After much research I decided to deploy the Melexis MLX90371 Rotary Hall Sensor in my designs for the Heritage Flight Simulation Spitfire Mk.IX

The whole idea with this was that they would be easy to use as they give an analog signal right off the bat and they have a through the hole design, so easy to solder.

Well I received 12 of the little suckers off Digi-key the other day and set about to test them. I simply used an Arduino and set the sensor up on a breadboard, connected as per the datasheet. It should be pretty simple, there is a 5V input lead, a analog out lead and 2 ground leads, one of which remains floating (not connected). So you should simply be able to use them as a drop-in for a potentiometer right?

Seemingly not. Despite my best efforts with different sizes and strengths of magnets it only gives a constant 2.48V output. I contacted Melexis who referred me to Digi-Key who said it should work. It doesn't...

Anybody else here played with these yet?

Cheers,
Roel

https:\\heritageflightsim.com

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4436439 - 08/30/18 02:25 PM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Manchot]  
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The fixed 2,48 reading suggest that magnetic field is not detected/processed.

Maybe for this sensor you need diametrically magnetized magnet.

The sensor you get is programmed for use analog output or PWM output?

"The ICs offered here are unprogrammed and not lured. The blocks can only be programmed with the Melexis Programmer PTC-04 with Daughterboard HALL06 or be taught-in to the magnet design."

This MLX90371 is a new model, probable not used yet in DIY, I know that (few) people have been use with success MLX90333 - that came programmed for analog output. Similar version is used in digital output in Warthog, T.16000M, X-55/56 - what require digital inputs in USB controller.

BTW - Although cost more an really "friendly to use HALL sensor" - because have all is need: sensor, magnet, operating axis pole, assembly point in one package: is Bi-Tech 6127, that have versions with limited "electric angle" (30, 50, 90....) - desired in joystick use, and not only 360º version.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tt-electronics-bi/6127V1A60L.5/987-1391-ND/2620660











#4436658 - 09/01/18 12:51 AM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Manchot]  
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Kelly Offline
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Is that what you would recommend for a homebuilt throttle, ie P-51 throttle with limited movement of 80 deg on 2 levers and probably 30 deg on the third?

#4436712 - 09/01/18 03:16 PM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Manchot]  
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If you don't want deal with DIY sensor/magnet assembly use Bi-tech 6127V1A90L.5 for throttle (90º of electric angle) and 6127V1A45L.5 (45º) for other axes.

Another option is GVL224 sell "MagRez" - KMZ41 sensor assembled in PCB for around ~$10 - see their sales topic in this forum.

Advantage of "MagREZ" is that this sensor will be "calibrated" for the magnet angular movement, became more easy to set.


#4436726 - 09/01/18 05:52 PM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Manchot]  
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Kelly Offline
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Thank you Sokol1. Im learning the electronics portion of the pit as I go. Think I'll stick with the Bi-Tech as they will be mounted behind the MIP with pushrods connecting them to the throttle. There isnt a lot of space inside a P-51 throttle to mount sensors so it was decided to do it like the real thing. Keeping things simple!

#4436978 - 09/03/18 02:49 PM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Sokol1]  
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Manchot Offline
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Hi Sokol,

Thank you for the reply, sorry I am only responding now, for some reason I am not receiving notification of new contributions to the thread. sigh

Quote
The fixed 2,48 reading suggest that magnetic field is not detected/processed.
- Agreed

Quote
Maybe for this sensor you need diametrically magnetized magnet.
- That may very well be, thanks for pointing that out. While possibly not optimal using a round 9mm by3mmT rare earth magnet, I would however still expect some variation in the reading if the sensor is working.

Quote
The sensor you get is programmed for use analog output or PWM output?
- It comes standard as analog output but can be programmed for PWM

Quote
The ICs offered here are unprogrammed and not lured. The blocks can only be programmed with the Melexis Programmer PTC-04 with Daughterboard HALL06 or be taught-in to the magnet design. This MLX90371 is a new model, probable not used yet in DIY, I know that (few) people have been use with success MLX90333 - that came programmed for analog output. Similar version is used in digital output in Warthog, T.16000M, X-55/56 - what require digital inputs in USB controller.
- That is good to know that I am not the only one battling with this! banghead

Quote
BTW - Although cost more an really "friendly to use HALL sensor" - because have all is need: sensor, magnet, operating axis pole, assembly point in one package: is Bi-Tech 6127, that have versions with limited "electric angle" (30, 50, 90....) - desired in joystick use, and not only 360º version.
- I suspect that this may be the way I need to go....

Here is another that may or may not work out of the box, not sure.. https://www.digikey.com/product-det...0-00-02-A/1294-55200-00-02-A-CHP/5401501

Many thanks for the very informative response Sokol! thumbsup



Last edited by Manchot; 09/03/18 02:53 PM.
#4437019 - 09/03/18 06:45 PM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Manchot]  
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Take a look in AMS AS5000 series contactless sensor, may are suitable for your needs.

https://ams.com/AS5048A

This model can programmed without specific calibrator - or using a non expensive model (like the required for Melexis) for the needed "working angle".*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwc4hFgNP5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJKHsOFRBS0

The only DIY use of this sensor I know is this:

https://robdobson.com/2017/04/flight-trim/

* "Working angle" is important because if you take a 360º only sensor and turn only 30-60º - typical use in joysticks, will have proportional reduction in axes resolution, the voltage will not variate from e.g. 0 to 5V, but less.




#4437027 - 09/03/18 07:26 PM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Sokol1]  
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Manchot Offline
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Thank you Sokol.
I need to find something that will be reasonably easy to implement for non-technical people. So while I may be able to follow this and set it up for myself, providing it as a common solution for the Heritage Flight Simulation Mk.IX Spitfire may be problematical.

I will keep working at it and gladly accept all advice. I am waiting for feedback on the Melexis from Digi-Key and hope they will be able to provide some clarity on how the MLX90371GVS-BCC-100-SP-ND is supposed to be implemented...
Was there any discussion on the forums about the other Melexis unit?

Your point on working angle is well made. Easiest in my case is to have a few printed gears as necessary to give the full resolution.

#4437312 - 09/05/18 12:41 PM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Manchot]  
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Manchot Offline
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Well my question has been answered. After failing to get an answer from Digi-Key (Melexis had I requested that I contact them as one of their distributors), I went back to Melexis and put it strongly that users were being let down through lack of information.

This was the response from their technical staff:
Quote
We regret to hear you were disappointed in the service provided by our partner and are currently checking why they were unable to assist.

In the meantime our Melexis engineers have had a look at your query and below you can find their feedback :

Hello,

The output mode is indeed set to analog by default, as stated on section "11. End-User Programmable Items" of the datasheet (see "AOUT_MODE_NORMAL" parameter). In the same section, you'll see that "CLAMPLOW" and "CLAMPHIGH" are by default set to 50 %VDD. This means the output will remain equal to 50 %VDD regardless of what the sensor is measuring. Therefore, in order to start using the sensor, you should at least program "CLAMPLOW" and "CLAMPHIGH" to different values (10 and 90 %VDD, for example).

After changing these parameters, the output of the sensor will vary linearly with the measured field, between CLAMPLOW and CLAMPHIGH.

P.S.: In order to program the sensor, you will need a PTC04 programmer and a DB-HALL06 daughter board.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,


I have responded as follows so it will be interesting to see whether Melexis will actually come to the party and make these units availble in a usable format:
Quote
Thank you for that information from your engineers. Regarding that information herewith my observations:

I find that not clearly stating in the datasheet (that the units are not usable without programming), ignorant at best, deceitful at worst.
There can be no excuse as to why these units are not supplied in a usable state, i.e. to have the ClampHigh and ClampLow values set at generally optimal levels, with the option for further refinement through programming should the user wish.
Selling these units with a setup that renders them useless therefore forces the user to purchase the programming units. The quote I have on these from Digi-Key are as follows:
PTC04ND: US$1141
PTC04DB: US$260
DB-HALL06: US$296
So whichever way you look at it, a user is in for a cost of US$556 or $1,437

Is it the intent to make these units exclusive to industrial use, ignoring the potential market for makers and hobbyists and other smaller users?

Simply by shipping the Dimm4 Analog units with optimal clamping values, this market can easily be tapped.

In the meantime, I feel a little done in by having 12 of these units which are unusable. Furthermore, I have spent significant time incorporating the units into my designs for our simulator. Designs which will now have to be redone to incorporate more conventional solutions, as I cannot expect purchasers of my product to all have programming boards before they can use it.

Kind regards,

#4437324 - 09/05/18 02:01 PM Re: User friendly Hall Effect Rotary Sensors [Re: Manchot]  
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Manchot Offline
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So I will be following your advice Sokol and doing a redesign using the Bi-Tech 6127 for all critical axis, being the roll, elevator, yaw and throttle. The others will incorporate cheaper potentiometers.

Damn, also just dawned on me that your link to the German site indicated you must have a programmer! duh

Last edited by Manchot; 09/05/18 02:07 PM.

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