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#4436741 - 09/01/18 08:40 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Wouldn't surprise me if they "re-imagined" Micheal Collins as as a transgendered Asian lesbian and Buzz Aldrin as as a Black Muslim to make it more inclusive. Too many straight white Christian guys were involved, after all, and we want to show that the Apollo mission was for all of us, after all.


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#4436742 - 09/01/18 08:45 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Actually it was a BFD.

The Space Race between the US and the USSR.

Cold War struggle between the two superpowers for space mastery.

Race to the moon.

Big enough deal that they planned and prepared for the planting of the flag. Just including the apparatus in the space capsule and lunar lander means that it was a significant event.

One of the few lunar actions by the crew. It was choreographed in execution and filming.

Flag planting has a real historical significance. That the US graciously did not lay claim to the moon with the flag planting was a major event.

Yeah it was a BFD and should have been in the movie. Omitting it was making a statement.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4436744 - 09/01/18 08:50 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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"When I made this film about Iwo Jima, I left out the part where they raised the flag because I wanted to focus on the soldiers in the battle. It was a victory for all of the allies, not just the Americans."


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#4436751 - 09/01/18 09:23 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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HAHAHA! good one.

Spot on, OG. THAT WAS THE POINT in landing on the Moon. That the United States got there first. Not a bag of moon rocks.


~Bill

It's funny how drinking 8 glasses of water seems impossible, but 8 cups of coffee goes down like a chubby kid on the seesaw!
#4436753 - 09/01/18 09:27 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Right on OG.

No matter how many lies, deceiving agendas and historically comprised movies there are, The United States flag that flew around the moon on Apollo 17 and was awarded to my grandfather now hanging on my wall will not suddenly disappear.

#4436759 - 09/01/18 10:37 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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JFK May 25, 1961: "I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to Earth."

Kennedy didn't say "representing all nations" or "as a symbolic of the world" he said THIS NATION should send men to the moon and return them.

Later he made the famous "We choose to go to the moon" speech that made it very clear that this wasn't some international, symbolic cooperative international venture but a competition to demonstrate that the American system of government was superior. The results would be for "all mankind" but only if a free country, the United States, won the race rather than the oppressive communist regime of the USSR.


"For the eyes of the world now look into space, to the moon and to the planets beyond, and we have vowed that we shall not see it governed by a hostile flag of conquest, but by a banner of freedom and peace. We have vowed that we shall not see space filled with weapons of mass destruction, but with instruments of knowledge and understanding.

Yet the vows of this Nation can only be fulfilled if we in this Nation are first, and, therefore, we intend to be first. In short, our leadership in science and industry, our hopes for peace and security, our obligations to ourselves as well as others, all require us to make this effort, to solve these mysteries, to solve them for the good of all men, and to become the world's leading space-faring nation.

We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say that we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours.

There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation many never come again. But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436763 - 09/01/18 11:28 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Someone seems to be re-writing history to fit their narrative.

Oh, and Chuck Yeager doesn't seem to agree with this new narrative.


"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
Patrick Henry 1775

I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
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#4436783 - 09/02/18 02:46 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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If that's how the movie is already being perceived by many and if it also warranted a comment from Chuck Yeager himself with regards to how they portrayed Neil Armstrong, then I think many of our concerns and suspicions about the production are true.

#4436788 - 09/02/18 04:27 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Consider this: When MTV launched back in Early 1981, what did they choose to use as their iconic logo/icon? A caricature of Neil Armstrong facing the flag!
Because it was iconic. It was American. It was instantly recognizable. It stirred something in you, making you think that MTV was 'something that had never been achieved before'.

That is why MTV launched their channel with the Apollo 11 footage. Which they played at the top of the hour, for 5 years!
And now their VMA Award is the Golden Moonman. Gosh, who would have thunk it? Oh and he is of course holding a flag. Every. Time.


~Bill

It's funny how drinking 8 glasses of water seems impossible, but 8 cups of coffee goes down like a chubby kid on the seesaw!
#4436801 - 09/02/18 11:03 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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For a historical reference


https://www.bing.com/images/search?...rst+to+South+Pole+pictures&FORM=IGRE

Scroll through. Notice anything ?


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4436842 - 09/02/18 04:26 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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What Gosling misses is that while Mr. Armstrong did not think of himself as an American hero, he certainly thought of himself as an American.

Whether in uniform as an aviator or as an astronaut, or even in civilian life afterwards, did he ever show anything but pride in being an American?

Yes, planting the flag was scripted, as were his words as he stepped off the lander. That didn't mean they weren't important, or that he didn't take pride in them. The iconic picture of him saluting the flag on the Moon wasn't something he did reluctantly. I doubt he was thinking "Well, this is a useless part of everything, we're up here for the whole planet, after all, and I wish we were more inclusive for everyone else, including the Soviets, to feel like they're part of this."

Know what else was scripted? Most of the mission. When to eat, when to sleep, when to EVA, and what to do during the EVA...all of it was scripted before they even left the Earth.

Last edited by Dart; 09/02/18 04:27 PM.

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#4436857 - 09/02/18 06:45 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I guess one factor might be that it seems that the only people who care about the flag planting bit of it are American conservatives.
For me, I guess I was aware that the flag was planted at some point, because at one point there wasn't a flag there, and now there is, but it didn't matter. The truly important thing is him stepping out of the capsule and onto the moon.
I do see that acknowledging the fact that it was an American mission deserves some recognition, but I'm sure you'll get that through the rest of the movie.

#4436861 - 09/02/18 07:23 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Put into historical context of the Cold War, it was huge.


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#4436871 - 09/02/18 08:29 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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It was the American Space Program that was due the recognition. Armstrong was the astronaut chosen to make that first step. If not him, the it would have been one of the other astronauts. Not trying to belittle Armstrong, but it was the whole American NASA program.

Statements like “I do see that acknowledging the fact that it was an American mission deserves some recognition, but I'm sure you'll get that through the rest of the movie.” make it all the more important to stand up for the actual historical event and the context of the times. It was an American versus USSR space race for the domination of space. Height of the Cold War and the competition between the two superpowers for superiority. Competition of the two political systems/beliefs; Capitalism and Communism. Who would win was settled with the lunar landing. America won. The planting of the flag was the period on the sentence.

“some recognition” ? BS !


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4436874 - 09/02/18 08:49 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: FlyingToaster]  
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Originally Posted by FlyingToaster
I guess one factor might be that it seems that the only people who care about the flag planting bit of it are American conservatives.


Not just conservatives, but folks who grew up during the Cold War and the early days of Nasa.
But it's true, the American flag doesn't get a lot of respect in this country any more. Just watch a football game.

#4436879 - 09/02/18 09:20 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart


Yes, planting the flag was scripted, as were his words as he stepped off the lander....



Armstrong stated emphatically that no one told him what to say stepping off the LM and that he came up with those words after landing, so no I don't believe those words were at all scripted. On Apollo 12 Pete Conrad won a bet with a reporter who claimed that higher ups would not allow him to say what he wanted to say but the reporter reneged on paying after Conrad's first words on the surface were "Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but that's a long one for me."


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436885 - 09/02/18 10:12 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Hollywood doesn't do documentaries. They sell (this is important) visually rich stories (another important bit) to an international audience.

U-571. Do I need to say more?

#4436891 - 09/02/18 11:15 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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That’s a different argument.

Yes, they have their agenda. And when that agenda displeases us, we can express that it does. And we can choose not to buy what they are selling.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4436894 - 09/02/18 11:40 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Ssnake]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake

U-571. Do I need to say more?


I think you just made our case. U-571 was a travesty, ignoring one of the key moments of the first moon landing is as well.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436897 - 09/03/18 12:29 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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It's even more than that. These HollyDrama queens are now trying to turn REAL American heroes into generic "world citizens". Sure, we ARE "world citizens", however many of us and, our forefathers before us, are Americans first. Oh, and so sorry but we are damn sure not embarrassed about it. nope

The "world" had NOTHING to do with conceiving, designing, building and, PAYING FOR Apollo 11. 100% made in the USA. With a little bit of help from a few, very happy to be in the USA, German guys.

This movie should be required to have a disclaimer at the start: "This is one person's, who was NOT there and DID NOT know Neil Armstrong, fictional vision of how he wishes it was".

I guess we should be happy he isn't portrayed as a transgender, persecuted little mommy's boy who liked to play with dolls. rolleyes



"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
Patrick Henry 1775

I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

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