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#4433485 - 08/07/18 09:33 PM A WWII dogfight board game..  
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I've been away from a PC for many years now and casually have drifted over to military board games. I recently started having interest in making a air combat board game.. From the few titles I've seen it appears to be very lacking. All I know of are basically two dimensional which is so unrealistic imo.
Just brain storming at the moment.. I was curious what the average square mileage might two engaged WWII aircraft take up? (map scale purposes)
WWI would be easier but I'm more interested in the WWII Aircraft.

Thanks!


Walt,
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#4433505 - 08/08/18 12:40 AM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4433516 - 08/08/18 02:03 AM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Dart]  
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Appreciate that Dart! I think my question was too cryptic for my own good lol! Any opinion on how many miles two fighters..(say a Mustang vs 190 scenario) Head on and level might use?

I’d venture a guess in the 20 mile range? Just tinkering with what scale to print a map if I get that far.


Walt,
#4433518 - 08/08/18 02:30 AM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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Well, now, it really depends on who's doing what.

In the Battle of Britain, 20 miles would probably do it.

Sweeps over the Russian front could be much larger, with combat spreading well out - as it did over the Continent as the Germans tried to intercept bombers and dealt with escorts.

Towards the end of the war, US fighters would pursue the Germans relentlessly, all the way back to their airfields.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4433526 - 08/08/18 02:55 AM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
Well, now, it really depends on who's doing what.

In the Battle of Britain, 20 miles would probably do it.

Sweeps over the Russian front could be much larger, with combat spreading well out - as it did over the Continent as the Germans tried to intercept bombers and dealt with escorts.

Towards the end of the war, US fighters would pursue the Germans relentlessly, all the way back to their airfields.



For my purposes a 4’x5’ board map scaled for 20 miles should do it. I may make the pieces modular so if a pursuit or the like would occur I could add map as needed.

Thanks for the insight!


Walt,
#4433531 - 08/08/18 03:18 AM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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check out board game geek . com

www.boardgamegeek.com

Lots of plane combat games you can check out for research. A lot of them will have rule PDFs on the site and pictures of all the pieces.

Also check out https://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/Tabletop_Simulator/

You can make your own games with a bit of photoshop and minor rules. Then you can test it online with friends instead of having to get everyone together.


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#4433561 - 08/08/18 10:42 AM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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Originally Posted by Walt
I've been away from a PC for many years now and casually have drifted over to military board games.
!



Was it just a case of getting burned out on playing PC flight sims? Just curious to know! smile


Alea iacta est.
#4433567 - 08/08/18 11:15 AM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Master]  
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Master...
Oh yeah thank you! I practically live over there great resource! That’s where I learned of Advanced Squad Leader..quite a bear to get a handle on.

Last edited by Walt; 08/08/18 11:16 AM.

Walt,
#4433570 - 08/08/18 11:23 AM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Walt
I've been away from a PC for many years now and casually have drifted over to military board games.
!



Was it just a case of getting burned out on playing PC flight sims? Just curious to know! smile


In all honesty that’s quite likely too..titles I believe were drying up, a few life curveballs and a old dinosaur PC made the trifecta lol.
Side note-
I bought a picnic table from a guy and by happenstance recently, learned he was into flight simulators..I have to say I was pretty excited to see a nice rig again..(way cool VR as well.)


Walt,
#4433607 - 08/08/18 04:04 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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Probably possible to estimate many encounters mathematically, based on the cruise/max speed of an aircraft (how much distance it could cover per minute of straight level flight) and perhaps best turn data (estimating the circumference and diameter of the aircraft turn circle). This could help define a map area suitable for an aerial combat, which of course is much smaller than the overall escort range of the fighter.

And I'm also enjoying military board games for the past couple years. Looking forward over the next 5 or 10 years, I wonder whether I'll even be playing as many PC games compared to the physical hex and counter war games.


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#4433612 - 08/08/18 04:30 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: adlabs6]  
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Originally Posted by adlabs6
Probably possible to estimate many encounters mathematically, based on the cruise/max speed of an aircraft (how much distance it could cover per minute of straight level flight) and perhaps best turn data (estimating the circumference and diameter of the aircraft turn circle). This could help define a map area suitable for an aerial combat, which of course is much smaller than the overall escort range of the fighter.

And I'm also enjoying military board games for the past couple years. Looking forward over the next 5 or 10 years, I wonder whether I'll even be playing as many PC games compared to the physical hex and counter war games.


I don't know exactly what it is, there's something about having a grand map laid out in front of you with counters that just exudes a certain something. Cool thing is war board games have been around forever so there is a tremendous amount to research and choose from.

My latest acquisition is a title called unconditional surrender which encompasses all of Europe's World War II theater including diplomacy.


Walt,
#4433621 - 08/08/18 06:44 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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Yes, it is enjoyable. I find the map can serve as a fantastic reference when exploring wargames based on historical battles. Even with the outcome variability a wargame offers compared to the historical battles, I have enjoyed having a wargame as a companion to studying the actual battles.

I've also come to enjoy the pace and flow of the tabletop wargames I've played. At first it was quite different than both my expectation, and PC gaming experiences. But I've settled into them nicely.


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#4433622 - 08/08/18 06:59 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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I'm pretty sure the last military-themed board game I played was Axis & Allies and that was in the late 90's.


Alea iacta est.
#4433624 - 08/08/18 07:06 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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Some existing air combat games you might want to look at :

Check your 6! (has altitude, and it can make a big difference actually)
Blue Max (Check your 6! WW1)
Bloody April (a more operational level game)
Bag the Hun!
Wings of Glory / Wings of War (has optional altitude rules, but is mostly a pretty simplistic 2D game)
Scramble!

#4433626 - 08/08/18 07:45 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: FlyingToaster]  
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My thoughts are basically to incorporate these rules with a more involved altitude/smash/energy component. Can't stand the notion of a 2D aircraft game.


Originally Posted by FlyingToaster
Some existing air combat games you might want to look at :

Check your 6! (has altitude, and it can make a big difference actually)
Blue Max (Check your 6! WW1)
Bloody April (a more operational level game)
Bag the Hun!
Wings of Glory / Wings of War (has optional altitude rules, but is mostly a pretty simplistic 2D game)
Scramble!


Walt,
#4433628 - 08/08/18 08:04 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: adlabs6]  
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Originally Posted by adlabs6
Yes, it is enjoyable. I find the map can serve as a fantastic reference when exploring wargames based on historical battles. Even with the outcome variability a wargame offers compared to the historical battles, I have enjoyed having a wargame as a companion to studying the actual battles.

I've also come to enjoy the pace and flow of the tabletop wargames I've played. At first it was quite different than both my expectation, and PC gaming experiences. But I've settled into them nicely.



https://youtu.be/EuLnjyMHMVg


Walt,
#4433630 - 08/08/18 08:15 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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If you haven't already, also check out the Wing Leader series published by GMT. Instead of the usual top-down map, it's map depicts the combat from the side, making altitude a primary element of the aircraft placement.


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#4433633 - 08/08/18 08:32 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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Another one I forgot about, very much on the heavyweight side of things is 'Birds of Prey'. It uses a 3D system similar to the one the company uses for their full 3D spaceship games (Attack vector Tactical and Squadron Strike)

#4433639 - 08/08/18 09:41 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: adlabs6]  
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Originally Posted by adlabs6
If you haven't already, also check out the Wing Leader series published by GMT. Instead of the usual top-down map, it's map depicts the combat from the side, making altitude a primary element of the aircraft placement.



I’ll check it out..I hope to flesh out something that involved a graduated standee in 500’ increments using miniatures that could be positioned on any axis.
So I envision a table sized map with engagements ranging anywhere from 500-10’000’ agl. Mustangs dropping out of 8k for a lone 109 scudding along at 1000’. All represented on clear plastic stands off the table.


Walt,
#4433725 - 08/09/18 04:19 PM Re: A WWII dogfight board game.. [Re: Walt]  
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Consider taking an idea from Squadron strike: Different coloured risers. White ones mean 1 level, light blue ones mean 4 levels, dark blue ones mean 8 levels.
It means you can have many different levels without the miniatures wobbling on metre tall poles.

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