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#4430817 - 07/17/18 09:41 PM Hornet Take Two  
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Anklebiter Offline
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Hi all,

I haven't had time for sims for a number of years. I used to spend time on this forum under the handle "Slappy". For whatever reason I can't get into that old account, and the email address is long gone so I made a new one.

On a lark, I picked up Hornet. I came into it cold. Out of fond recollection for Janes Superhornet I figured what the heck.

I also have fond recollection for this forum, and figured I'd post my first impressions.

I consider this module in its current state a masterpiece and worth twice the price.

It all depends on what you are looking for I suppose. I'm a HOTAS and cockpit geek. One of those. I'm not a pilot, but have sat in an F14, an F16 and an F4 cockpit. Something about that office...

...and I gotta say. Belsimtek / ED just NAILED it with this module. Holy hell when I put on the Oculus and fired this thing up for the first time I was completely floored. I mean every control pops out. Weathered perfectly. Just... pure visceral joy. The displays... HUD... all of it. All clickable.

The feeling of flight is top notch. Way better than anything I remember from Janes or BMS (haven't tried that one in ages).

To be fair, some of this is about VR. In 2d, although still amazing, is not the same. Like seeing the Mona Lisa in black and white.

It has been a long long time since any sim has inspired me like this one. To make sure I wasn't missing some renaissance, I did fire up some of the FC3 birds and took a super brief look at the latest BMS. Nope. This thing is special. As soon as the final manual is released I am going to pony up for full color printing. Haven't decided on spiral bound or hardcover.

I already ponied up for a Warthog HOTAS. The CH gear I have is fine, but this thing deserves the very best. Comes on Friday and I'm so excited.

I noticed other things about the sim too. I picked up the Persian Gulf map, because, you know you can't fly a Hornet and it not be desert. I was tooling around in free flight and ran out of fuel near a city. I slowly glided down, preparing to try a street landing and suddenly I noticed the civilian traffic. Cars with headlights! Little thing I know, but blew me away. Never flown a sim that had that.

I read a post here angry that they were going to be adding cows, but I gotta say, the little touches like that really elevate this thing. As long as they don't have the same developer who is working on A2G radar work on this instead, I say absolutely go for it.

I've also read a lot of vitriol about broken promises from ED. I can't speak to that as I haven't been following them. I will say that I got more for my money than I expected, and certainly their early access is nothing like getting a jpg #%&*$# ala Star Citizen.

Back to learning carrier landings and seeing if I can make sense of the mission builder.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4430963 - 07/19/18 02:41 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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I really enjoy flying the Hornet as well Slappy. Welcome back smile

There is much to learn flying the F 18 and I spend much of my time in the mission editor, it's like a powerful and sometimes confusing quick mission builder smile




#4430981 - 07/19/18 09:19 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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Hi AnkleBiter....

Reading this review is more of your take on the DCS engine, not so much the hornet itself.

There is one sentence in this entire post related to the hornet.

Originally Posted by Anklebiter
...and I gotta say. Belsimtek / ED just NAILED it with this module. Holy hell when I put on the Oculus and fired this thing up for the first time I was completely floored. I mean every control pops out. Weathered perfectly. Just... pure visceral joy. The displays... HUD... all of it. All clickable


the rest is the graphics engine.....still you have failed to put any convincing selling points to make me as a consumer want to buy it.

carrier landings and what not have already been covered numerous times. What about the flight model, damage model, wing loading vs clean etc etc. perhaps do a full cover without the added selling point of the consumer\engine basically requires "more cows with head torches, greener pastures, more dirt in the desert, requires VR & HOTAS to fly the jet" so to speak

I am still unconvinced, even with Bisher's unmitigated input.

#4431092 - 07/20/18 02:36 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Hi AnkleBiter....

Reading this review is more of your take on the DCS engine, not so much the hornet itself.

There is one sentence in this entire post related to the hornet.

Originally Posted by Anklebiter
...and I gotta say. Belsimtek / ED just NAILED it with this module. Holy hell when I put on the Oculus and fired this thing up for the first time I was completely floored. I mean every control pops out. Weathered perfectly. Just... pure visceral joy. The displays... HUD... all of it. All clickable


the rest is the graphics engine.....still you have failed to put any convincing selling points to make me as a consumer want to buy it.

carrier landings and what not have already been covered numerous times. What about the flight model, damage model, wing loading vs clean etc etc. perhaps do a full cover without the added selling point of the consumer\engine basically requires "more cows with head torches, greener pastures, more dirt in the desert, requires VR & HOTAS to fly the jet" so to speak

I am still unconvinced, even with Bisher's unmitigated input.


I don't believe he was trying to convince you of anything? Maybe I missed something though. A guy posting his first impressions is not meant to be some peer-reviewed thesis on the module.

Slappy, I'll agree the feeling of flight is excellent and the pit is extremely detailed. The sounds are amazing as well. I pre-ordered it, and I think it was well worth the price. It will only get better as more systems are rolled out. The JHMCS and JSOW are what I look forward to messing with the most.

#4431100 - 07/20/18 04:57 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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Way over in Perth, Western Aus...
I look forward to AG radar and proper carrier ATC (ie case Ii and III recoveries) then I might get it. Man, heading back to the marshal stack with all the radio calls and other flights provided so much immersion and was so much fun in Jane's F-18... something lacking in the sterile environment of DCS.


mdwa
#4431422 - 07/22/18 11:18 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Winfield]  
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Anklebiter Offline
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I’m afraid I’m not expert enough to do a full review. I wish they had a demo so people could check this out themselves. Every once in a while, something comes along that you just know is special. The labor of love here shows and this is a work of art. If you enjoy cockpit sims, feel of flight, and most of all, if you love the Hornet, this is a complete nobrainer. I don’t know how to say it differently. How do you describe Led Zeppelin, or Mozart? And if somebody just doesn’t like that genre of music, what good will the description do?

#4431578 - 07/24/18 02:26 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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Yes I agree Slappy, the Hornet is so fun to fly, nothing like flying through a bank of clouds and beyond

Led Zeppelin is good too wink



#4431722 - 07/25/18 01:22 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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Overall, I enjoy this version of the Hornet sims, although I wish it was the Super Bug, but maybe down the line. Anyway, it is quite good but I have issues with the flight model. At low approach speed she suddenly gets loose as a goose where pitch inputs throw the nose up, then drops it, brings it up, drops it. It's hard to make a precise trap or shore landing that way. Also, it seems as if the throttle has to be at 75% or more just to hold AOA in the E bracket, and there is no fine tuning of the throttle to stay on slope--you have to give it a huge throw to get the right amount of power then throw it back to compensate if you want to do your 3 part power corrections.

In a turning fight, I have often found that you can have your nose pointed down to the ground and whilst in the turn, you are actually losing airspeed. Granted pulling Gs will do that, but it even happens when I let go of the pole and stay in a turn with nose down attitude. How is that? No gravity effect here!

Trapping on the carrier--that's eye candy for sure. But I also question how realistic it is. Admittedly I've been flying F-14A/B and F/A-18E onto carrier decks on FSX using Aerosoft and VRS' F-14 and F/A-18 respectively, and their model in tandem with the vLSO add-on is excellent, if not on the conservative side (ie, don't give me a waveoff when I am literally 21 second from touchdown then give me a cut pass for it!!!!). But approaching in the DCS version, the first thing I notice is that the approaches tend to be too low and flat, even when I watch others' videos on YouTube. I can't see the ball until I am at the rounddown and even when it says I'm onslope, the sight picture says I am way too low. You should be able to see the ball at about 3/4 mile, maybe 1, but I can't. The "ball" I do see is actually that sensor sphere above the Fresnel which distracts you away from the real ball (which you won't see until you are at the rounddown anyway). I do love not knowing if you trapped a wire for sure though! One time I boltered and I sunk down to 10 ft above the water before she climbed up again. That was harrowing!

Maybe I'm spoiled because I flew JF18 for many many years (some of you may remember my serial fiction from 2003 or so), and I've been flying VRS Sims' Super Bug on FSX, which is, to date, probably the most accurate F/A-18 sim out there. I don't have these kinds of problems flying that sim model...but I dunno. Is it my stick? I set it to Chuck's settings, 30 curvature, 20 deadzone IIRC. What else do I need to do if anything?

Otherwise, I do enjoy the sim. I fly it more than the other DCS ones now (most of my time has been in the Warthog). I'm actually playing around with the mission builder now as well. I don't have much to complain about "politically" re: ED as I haven't followed that drama either. But overall, I'm satisfied even though I sound like I'm complaining alot.

v6,
boNes


"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
#4431949 - 07/27/18 03:06 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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I appreciate your input bones smile



#4432013 - 07/27/18 05:35 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: bones]  
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Anklebiter Offline
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It was mentioned that the flight model was still WIP.

Aside from that though, it is encouraging to read from a number of Hornet drivers that they have nailed a good portion of it. I remember the raging debate over Janes superhornet. Between DCS and IL-2 it really seems the flight model issues of yore are less of an issue, which is so incredibly cool.

Here's a thread with a bunch of pilot input if anybody is interested.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=213934

#4432019 - 07/27/18 06:18 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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There are some changes to the FM in today's changelog.

Quote
Further tuning of flight model with touch and go performance, gear drag, half flaps drag, takeoff pitch characteristics, and extreme angle of attack performance

#4432060 - 07/27/18 11:46 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Vitesse]  
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Originally Posted by Vitesse
There are some changes to the FM in today's changelog.

Quote
Further tuning of flight model with touch and go performance, gear drag, half flaps drag, takeoff pitch characteristics, and extreme angle of attack performance




interesting that this was not picked up by the arm chair pilots upon release and only now given a fix.....

#4432069 - 07/28/18 01:46 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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I believe the FM is a WIP



#4432078 - 07/28/18 04:16 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Winfield]  
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Have some bacon.

#4432130 - 07/28/18 04:32 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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I like bacon



#4432139 - 07/28/18 05:37 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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The Hornet is definitely incomplete and definitely in the realm of extreme unfinished early access. Despite suggesting a more complete experience at release than the A-10C, comparatively it is actually at a very preliminary stage. It makes you wonder what they've been doing the whole time, other than of course wasting time, collecting money on cheap projects, like they're continuing to do now. I also have doubts about the F-18 FM, carrier landings, etc., but haven't done much A/A action. As for me, I have stopped buying modules in the hopes this would help accelerate ED's development of other modules, CA, Viggen, Gazelle, MiG-15, Bf-109, Spitfire, campaigns and certainly Yak. Unfortunately didn't reach that stage earlier with the L-39 and F-5, both mistakes in my view. My concern is that they seem to pushing out complex systems in weeks, in the hopes of saying in a year it's over, time to move on to the next project, when in reality this thing probably requires at least 3 more years of development.

#4432148 - 07/28/18 07:47 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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What do you reference when you say 'definately in the realm of extreme unfinished early access' Faulkner?

I had read somewhere the f 18 module was 'definately in the realm of moderately unfinished early access'. Hmmmm......



#4432201 - 07/29/18 08:49 AM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Anklebiter]  
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Originally Posted by Anklebiter
Have some bacon.


I've been comparing the Hog release to this release and the Bacon still stands....the FM was in a far better state at release in the hog than this POS and months later only the major stuff is now being overhauled..

#4432223 - 07/29/18 03:20 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: bisher]  
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Well, if you're going to make extraordinary claims bisher that it is only "moderately unfinished early access", as opposed to "extremely unfinished early access", you're going to have to cite references of your own.

I have it from extremely credible sources within Hughes/Raytheon that ED has long abandoned R&D of their avionics suites, including IFF, ground radar, as well as complete implementation of HUD symbology in various A/A modes, which would only confuse things further. In a genuine effort to expedite delivery of product to consumer since they've been so busy with other projects, they have decided to produce their own version of the F-18 and to stave off years of unnecessary delays, are now simply taking the information directly from Jane's F-18.

Originally Posted by bisher
What do you reference when you say 'definately in the realm of extreme unfinished early access' Faulkner?

I had read somewhere the f 18 module was 'definately in the realm of moderately unfinished early access'. Hmmmm......

#4432227 - 07/29/18 03:52 PM Re: Hornet Take Two [Re: Faulkner]  
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Originally Posted by Faulkner
are now simply taking the information directly from Jane's F-18.


Speaking of extraordinary claims. This statement seems extremely extraordinary



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