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#4429439 - 07/08/18 06:02 PM Do we really miss the 2D cockpits?  
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VonBeerhofen Offline
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I don't think so, smile

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Notice the illuminated flaps indicator in the 1st picture and the tinted sunscreen glass in the top of the 3rd.

VonBeerhofen

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4429624 - 07/09/18 08:42 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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WOKI Offline
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EAW still much better with 2D pit i think and pushing EAW into 3D pit is bad idea in my opinion, i love EAW coz it's 2D pit smile

Last edited by WOKI; 07/09/18 08:52 PM.
#4430070 - 07/12/18 07:52 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: WOKI]  
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RIBob Offline
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It would be wrong of me to not be grateful for such fine work as pictured above. I appreciate the time and effort needed to accomplish such a task.

That notwithstanding, and being a simple user (perhaps speaking for others), I would appreciate a suite of visible, detailed flight instruments.

The usual instruments suitable for IFR flying in a WW II Fighter would do it. In most of the EAW games I have, the instruments are worthless, and one has to depend on the Info posted in lower left of the screen, which is generally too small.

I know that this is a comment which has been repeated in the past, no doubt long before I found this Forum. I certainly believe those who say replicating such instruments is extremely problematic.

Let's simplify things a little bit. All that's necessary is the typical IFR instruments, arrayed in a crescent, developed as separate, instrument-specific modules, capable of being overlaid into the cockpit of any given aircraft, and historical location/appearance being set-aside for the moment. Illuminated instruments for night flying. Differences between the appearance of individual instruments as made by different countries also set-aside for the moment.

I think it worth noting that whatever other improvements have been/will be made to the game, what a new person to the game sees every moment while playing it are the unusable instruments right in front of them. Some new users will chuckle, and move on to other games. If the fundamental goal is to rejuvenate the game, and attract new users, I submit visible and working instruments should be very high on the "To-Do" list.

Take a semi-arcade game like "Crimson Skies", a game I enjoy playing. In "Cockpit View" all the necessary instruments are visible. If "Crimson Skies" can do it, why not EAW?


Last edited by RIBob; 07/12/18 07:57 PM.
#4430074 - 07/12/18 08:09 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Cape Charles, Virginia, USA
FWIW, Alt-L will light up the cockpit.

Have you tried the planes in the new SPAW package?

The instruments are much closer, thus larger and somewhat clearer.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4430077 - 07/12/18 08:27 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: Rotton50]  
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RIBob Offline
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Originally Posted by Rotton50
FWIW, Alt-L will light up the cockpit.

Have you tried the planes in the new SPAW package?

The instruments are much closer, thus larger and somewhat clearer.


Have not yet installed the SPAW package, due to having to reconstruct and test the various EAW games I have. Still sorting things out.

Aside from that, I confess that I was waiting for the initial, and inevitable, bugs to be found by people brighter than me, and so fixed before installing the presumably updated SPAW package.

From what you say, that would be a very welcome change. I note that the Turn-and-Bank indicator is blank in most EAW aircraft. Is that fixed, and usable?

#4430090 - 07/12/18 09:19 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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VonBeerhofen Offline
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RiBob,

I hope you'll find what you're looking for, these are the best I can make it given EAW's shortcomings.

VonBeerhofen

#4430092 - 07/12/18 09:42 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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RIBob Offline
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Originally Posted by VonBeerhofen
RiBob,

I hope you'll find what you're looking for, these are the best I can make it given EAW's shortcomings.

VonBeerhofen


I certainly intended NO criticism for you or your creations. I enjoy playing your versions of the game because they are visually superb, and that is, I think, your forte. You have a certain knack for the visual, and that cannot be denied.

Just suggesting what many before me have asked-for, and suggesting how the game might most profitably be improved for new users.

New users are essential, lest your creations be lost, and your work be for nothing.

I don't want that, and I'm certain that YOU don't want that. Nobody wants that.

We are all supporters of EAW here, and while there may be occasional spats, I certainly hope we can agree that increasing the number of EAW users can only benefit all other EAW users/developers. Perhaps if the game gets popular again, some expert game programmer might hear of it, and get interested in EAW as a hobby. Stranger thing have happened.

Who knows what you could accomplish of such a programmer allowed you a more fertile field for your creations?

But it's necessary to get the game noticed, and so that is the thrust of most of my suggestions in this thread as well as elsewhere.

In the meantime, I enjoy your creations.

#4430108 - 07/12/18 11:51 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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VonBeerhofen Offline
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No offense taken RiBob.

VonBeerhofen

#4456389 - 01/07/19 10:34 AM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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Boom Offline
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I have to say that I also much prefer the 2D Cockpits. Easily the best modelled cockpits around, of any WWII sim.

I know that by staying in a low res to keep the 2D I'm losing badly in quality aircraft and land scenery. The game is quite awful when I venture outside to view objects or aeroplanes. But as I invariably fly 'in cockpit' mode only, I can live with it.


"Somewhere out there is page 6!"
"But Emillo you promised ....... it's postpone"
ASWWIAH Member
#4456405 - 01/07/19 01:26 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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VonBeerhofen Offline
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Hi Pips,

your comment suggests you didn't see the pictures I posted, after all they were taken down quite some time ago already. So I took the liberty to restore their links, maybe that'll change your mind.

Obviously the 640 x 480 screens are higher in resolution then what's available for the virtual cockpits, however as the pictures show there's a lot that can be done to improve them.

VonBeerhofen

#4458739 - 01/26/19 07:27 AM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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The 3D cockpits suffer from not using a higher resolution that the rest of the game uses these days, When I ported the game to 1024x768, the cockpit had to be left at the old standard because most gauges use lines for the needles rather than sprites. So when the higher resolution was applied to the cockpits (which looked awesome!) the needles on the gauges all but disappeared. Additionally, I couldn't get the Cockpit Editor (which is actually built into the game) to use a higher resolution in part because the layout and sizing of the needles is based on the 2D cockpits.

I had started work on making new 2D cockpits to work with a modded Editor,(needed to do the initial layout of the gauge placement, movement, minimum and maximum settings, etc) but the overall amount of graphics needed was too much for my limited time. All of the gauge needles would need to be converted to sprites, as used by some gauges like the compasses, and the appropriate changes to work with the 3d cockpits.

The initial tests I did were very promising indeed, but I could not enlist anyone to aid me at the time so I moved on to other things. Still, this project nags at me from time to time....


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4458740 - 01/26/19 07:38 AM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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This is a hi res cockpit I was working on. To give you an idea of the increase of resolution, the needles as mapped for the lower resolution all show up on the speedometer and the attitude gauge...

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Crashin' Jack; 01/26/19 07:38 AM.

"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4458760 - 01/26/19 03:00 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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VonBeerhofen Offline
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Hi CJ, long time no see my friend.

Those look really nice and I assume they are 512 texture panels. I could probably make them work but it would loose all backward compattabillity with all instrument panels thusfar creatred (except perhaps a few). Another problem for me would be that the animations in the PVIEW**.CPT need to be set to the same resolution, although it'll probably work without. It's just a too massive job to do this for all known cockpits, most of which I think are in dire need of reworking themselves.

Even when I'd manage to get it working properly I just wouldn't have the time to even create the stock cockpits with this upgrade, especially not with all the work I still have lying around unfinished or partially working. It's too bad that this has become one of the things which needs a dedicated modder to do the hard labour, and I don't know if there are such people around still.

Even I am not looking for such timeconsuming jobs and rather stick to what's there already and is known to work flawlesly. I salute you for a valliant try and feel a bit sorry I got you involved in this. Like all tough things in EAW it'll remain a novelty when not followed through all the way and simmilarly I will never produce all the cockpits we need, like the one above. It's just too much for one person, thanks for trying though, I hope it's of use to someone.

VonBeerhofen

#4458770 - 01/26/19 05:21 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Rotton50  Offline
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Existing cockpits can be improved without too much effort.

First thing is to remove some of the "decorative" non-operational gauges and switches. Then there's room to expand the functional gauges.

Next is to bring the X.3dz ( gauge panel ) closer to the player simply by moving it with 3dz Studio. Then the individual gauges can be made bigger by altering the X-Y coordinates of the textures. There's a bit of trial and error to fit the panel properly but not too much. The whole process takes about 1/2 hour.

Then you can add moving switches, levers or blinking indicator lights for the flaps, dive brakes, engine start/stop, landing gear and sliding canopy glass. This takes somewhat longer depending on the complexity. Simple on/off switches and levers are pretty straight forward but animating the blinking lights is a PITA but they look great in the game.

In addition, there's a lot of gunsights available at Talley-ho that can be added to individual planes for more historical accuracy.

Some examples from the new aircraft upgrade package that is almost done:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Rotton50; 01/26/19 05:23 PM.

Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4458778 - 01/26/19 06:21 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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SkyHigh Offline
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These look a vast improvement and appear highly functional. That second one is outstanding.

In terms of gunsights, there is a brilliant Gunsight Manager, made by Spit9, which organises the gunsights on the basis of year of service, individual plane and nationality. I found it within the 'Extras' that came with the Great Shot II addon, but it's probably available seperately. I think Mark has a lot of this material collected, as well.

#4458792 - 01/26/19 07:37 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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Rotton50 Offline
3DZ / campaign designer
Rotton50  Offline
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Sky, as we discussed, the gunsight manger isn't set up to work with 1.6 due to the folder structure.

However, that's not a problem.

I've included historically accurate gunsights for about 400 planes in the new inventory. If a player wanted to change the gunsight it would take about 5 minutes of instruction to learn how to do it with a simple Windows copy/paste operation.




PS - still working on the best way to get you an aircraft inventory test set.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4458795 - 01/26/19 08:10 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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SkyHigh Offline
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I understand that Ray, was just suggesting it was there, if you required it. Obviously, you're quite familiar with it, or at least with the information it carries. Since you're integrating the historical gunsights, a manager of that kind will be unnecessary.

I'm eagerly anticipating that test-set.

#4458798 - 01/26/19 08:23 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Rotton50  Offline
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In fact, I'm not sure if it will work with the later 1.2X series. I think they have different folder structures too but some else will have to chime in on that.

As to the testing, I'm putting the final touches on a couple of SWOTL planes and then I'll contact you.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4458809 - 01/26/19 09:17 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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SkyHigh Offline
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I think that's correct. In fact, the 1.4-1.6 folder structure is more favourable to modding the gunsights than the 1.28/29 series, from what I can see. I've been able to put the gunsights of my choice into my 1.6 install, but have failed to do so with my 1.29 version.

Send the test-set over in one of those SWOTL contraptions and I'll see what I can make of it. Must prepare a seperate 'guinea-pig' install for it.

#4458943 - 01/27/19 07:15 PM Re: Do we really miss the 2D cockpits? [Re: VonBeerhofen]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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VBH, you are mostly correct in your summary. The one issue that can't be corrected in the CPT file is the needles tend to be a bit too fine. Replacing them with sprites would work, and not too difficult but the enormity of the job, even for the stock plane set, is a considerable amount of time I simply don't have these days.

Ray, functionally your cockpits work fine I am sure. My personal joy was in making the gauges historically accurate AND readable. This would include adding in the details that aren't meant to work, but make the game more enjoyable to me by making it visually more exciting.


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

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