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#4425221 - 06/08/18 05:10 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods ***** [Re: Javelin]  
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It sounds like you aren't actually engaging Hover-Hold or Stable-Hover-Hold. If you are dropping down to 20m, it stops because of the ground effect, you are not actually hovering. There is a complication to engaging the Hover modes in the Razorworks code. You have to be below the speed limit of (now) 40 knots AND you have to let go of the joystick... It has to be centered. I found that part in the code when I went in to edit it.
I forget to let go of the joystick every once in awhile myself. It's pretty annoying if you don't know it's in there. I don't think it's even mentioned in the manual either.

I checked, and it's not in the manual.
There is a warning for being over 40 knots, but it doesn't sound because the recording is blank.
There isn't a warning if you don't center the joystick, it just doesn't engage. Annoying as hell.
It might be in there because any offset of the joystick disengages Hover mode. I'll test it tonight, but I don't think I can take it out without breaking it.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/08/18 05:40 PM.
#4425226 - 06/08/18 05:49 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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this post will need to be put in the changelog as the new version will be released.without explanation it will be hard.And maybe in first post?not everyone read txt.

#4425234 - 06/08/18 07:14 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Good Idea XIII. I added a few notes into the first post to clarify the controls. I also edited the instructions that come with the download.

Messyhead, As a note, when you engage Stable-Hover the nose pops up a few degrees and the speed drops off to zero over the next few seconds. There is also an announcement "Hover Hold ON" or something like that. That's how you can tell if it engaged or not. Silence means it didn't engage. It targets your altitude at the moment you push the button. If it drops towards the ground (Hover instead of Stable-Hover) you aren't using the correct Hover mode or it didn't engage (speed>40knots or the joystick not centered).

Last edited by Javelin; 06/08/18 07:22 PM.
#4425245 - 06/08/18 10:01 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Woow Only now I discovered it, you can do a barrel roll bananadance amazing, in 1.16 it was impossible.this is really a great work Javelin .

#4425261 - 06/08/18 11:42 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: XIII]  
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Originally Posted by XIII
Woow Only now I discovered it, you can do a barrel roll bananadance amazing, in 1.16 it was impossible.this is really a great work Javelin .

Damn!! I have to try that

Marc..


HP-Compaq-8100-Elite-SFF-Intel-Core-i5-660-3-33GHz-8GB-250GB-Windows7, GTX1050 -X45+Rudder Pedals, Playseat Challenge
#4425291 - 06/09/18 05:36 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I think the joystick input was causing some of the issues last time, but I've been more methodical in testing this time, and still seeing some issues.

I couldn't get it to drop to 20 altitude like last time, but there was some other strange behaviour.

When I engaged Stable Hover, the altitude increased uncontrollably.

I've uploaded a video, and in the description I've added the steps I took. This was in Free Flight, on Task Force Lebanon map.

https://youtu.be/EwEvshJp9u8

Last edited by messyhead; 06/09/18 05:37 AM.
#4425324 - 06/09/18 04:56 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I can see the software cutting your speed down to zero, so it is engaging something, it just isn't seeing the shift key down.

I retested on my computer using an Apache and I did get one instance in about 30 where it didn't process the shift key, it was right after I had used the Alt key for Altitude-Hold. I held shift down and tapped "H" twice (Hover Off then back On) and it reset and worked properly.

OK, I was able to duplicate your problem in a Ka-52 Alligator. It wouldn't control the collective no matter what I did.
The Ka-50 Blackshark worked. The Ka-52 worked the second time at a low altitude, but it wasn't locking onto the correct altitude when I turn it off and on again.
It looks like the altitude variable it uses (from the Razorworks code) isn't consistently updated, I'll have to use a different variable in the code.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/09/18 09:26 PM.
#4425375 - 06/09/18 09:25 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I've repaired the Stable-Hover code, test build 8 is up for download along with some slightly adjusted dyn settings files.

Thanks Messyhead for finding the bug! We've got it nailed down now.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/10/18 04:38 AM.
#4425378 - 06/09/18 09:51 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Thanks !I will test tomorrow.

Marc-And what do you say about the barrel?

#4425427 - 06/10/18 11:59 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Originally Posted by Javelin
I've repaired the Stable-Hover code, test build 8 is up for download along with some slightly adjusted dyn settings files.

Thanks Messyhead for finding the bug! We've got it nailed down now.


Thanks, I'll try the same steps again when I get a chance.

I was thinking about it yesterday, and wondered if my ini settings would have made a difference.

I'm using flight model 2, and engine realism set to 1.

My joystick has a split throttle, so one controls the engine throttle which is set to 100%, and the other is used to control the collective.

Without trying this out, I wondered if the altitude was increasing with stable hover as it was some how reading the engine power being set to 100%?

Last edited by messyhead; 06/10/18 12:03 PM.
#4425452 - 06/10/18 05:40 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I don't think engine power was affecting the altitude setting, the setting wasn't initialized so it was a ridiculous number like 2965703.15423549. That's why it went up.
If you selected Alt-Hover first, the Alt-Hover routine initialized the variable and Stable-Hover would afterwards lock onto the Alt-Hover setting.
That behavior was confusing the issue. I almost always go into Alt-Hover right after takeoff, so I wasn't seeing the problem later when I went into Stable-Hover mode.

I fixed it, it should work now.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/10/18 05:48 PM.
#4425779 - 06/12/18 04:48 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I tested that new build for Hover and Stable Hover and both now work as expected.

I've now moved on to testing Pop-Up.

Question: with Pop-Up engaged, should Alt-J/K adjust the altitude? They do at the moment.

The problem with allowing the height to be adjusted once Pop-Up is engaged, is I can adjust it down. So when I disengage Pop-Up (or Pop-Down again), it hits the ground if it's lower than the 20 metres that it moves by. Either guard against this, or don't allow Alt-J/K to adjust the height. I prefer guarding against it though, as I could pop-up too high and want to adjust it down slightly.

Another issue I found, when in stable hover, and I engage pop-up. If I then move the cyclic to disengage stable hover I can fly around and all is fine. But if I go back into stable hover, and hit Shift-P to Pop-Up, it goes down instead of Up as I was already "popped-up" before. This could end in a collision with the ground. Maybe reset the pop-up variable when hover disengages?

#4425818 - 06/12/18 08:50 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Good feedback.
I can gaurd against hitting the ground by checking the altitude before Popping Down.
I can also set it up to reset after dis-engaging Hover mode.

OK, cohokum_test9.exe is up on the server with the two changes mentioned above.

You are now limited to a Pop-Down to 5 meters so it won't hit the ground. If that isn't low enough tell me and we'll trim it down some.
And pushing the cyclic dis-engaging Hover mode now resets the Pop-Up status so the next time it will Pop Up, never down.

You guys also need to tell me if a 20 meter Pop-Up is the right amount. It can be smaller or larger, just let me know what works best.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/13/18 03:40 PM.
#4425891 - 06/13/18 08:19 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Originally Posted by Javelin
Good feedback.
I can gaurd against hitting the ground by checking the altitude before Popping Down.
I can also set it up to reset after dis-engaging Hover mode.

OK, cohokum_test9.exe is up on the server with the two changes mentioned above.

You are now limited to a Pop-Down of 5 meters so it won't hit the ground. If that isn't low enough tell me and we'll trim it down some.
And pushing the cyclic dis-engaging Hover mode now resets the Pop-Up status so the next time it will Pop Up, never down.

You guys also need to tell me if a 20 meter Pop-Up is the right amount. It can be smaller or larger, just let me know what works best.


Thanks, I'll try and give it a go tonight. I've only tested so far in free flight, and not trying any combat. So I've not used the pop-up in a conflict situation.

I'll try and use it some more when targeting, and see how it works out. My gut feeling is the 20 metres is fine. You'll just need to position so the pop-up will take you above the cover you're using, fire off weapons, then pop-down. I think the ability to do that quickly to return to cover is key, more than the height it moves. It makes you have to think more tactically when engaging, so you have to now use cover, and not just fly in with all guns blazing.

#4425945 - 06/13/18 03:45 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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You can hit Pop-Down early too, you don't have to wait until it finishes rising. Pop-Up and rise just until you can fire cleanly, then mash the buttons again to drop back down. I also noticed that Pop-Down is a little faster than Pop-Up, gravity helps on the way down.

#4425976 - 06/13/18 06:14 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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For me 20 m is also ok.
Looks like we have a dream team great programmer and a great software tester wink

#4426025 - 06/13/18 10:50 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I was going to have a go at editing the existing keyguide to update it with keys for the Hover hold. I've got Adobe Acrobat, but I don't have the fonts that the PDF uses. It uses an old version of Arial mostly, from older versions of Windows and Word. I can open it in Adobe Illustrator, but I'd need to retype all of the keys, as the text isn't editable as text. I think I'll leave it for now.


Edit: Actually, there's a version 3 of the keyguide that thealx updated linked from the wiki main page. I don't think I've noticed that before. Thealx, if you see this, could you let me know how you edited the file?

http://eechcentral.SimHQ.com/index.php?title=Main_Page


Last edited by messyhead; 06/13/18 11:03 PM.
#4426073 - 06/14/18 05:00 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: XIII]  
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Originally Posted by XIII
For me 20 m is also ok.
Looks like we have a dream team great programmer and a great software tester wink


Thanks XIII! We aim to please. We're over 3000 hits on this thread now, so somebody is watching us besides you guys.

#4426083 - 06/14/18 07:38 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Originally Posted by Javelin
Originally Posted by XIII
For me 20 m is also ok.
Looks like we have a dream team great programmer and a great software tester wink


Thanks XIII! We aim to please. We're over 3000 hits on this thread now, so somebody is watching us besides you guys.


Any new posts will appear in the Active Threads list, so it could be members from other forums checking up on what's going on. Hopefully if some of them decide to get in on EECH, then we can start to grow the community a bit more, and maybe get some more developers on board. There's still a lot of work that could be done to improve EECH, but we need developers.

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/activetopics/7/1

#4426095 - 06/14/18 09:47 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Imo no connection. Soczkien made new best map ever in eech,and only 1200 views in half year. Javelin thread 3300 views in 2 weeks. People just dont want install unstable beta versions. Waiting for stable. When see thread 1.17 is out,or professional flight model is out,then downloading.

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