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#4423439 - 05/30/18 11:20 AM How accurate is this?  
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No Fear Offline
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From this film:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2005151/?ref_=nv_sr_1

[Linked Image]



Also (from 2011):


So my question is this:
What is the actual (or at least approximate) cost of the average equipment for a soldier in the US army-and even navy and air force (or other countries for that matter). Not necessarily talking about special forces equipment.


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#4423482 - 05/30/18 03:01 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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I would be skeptical of the video simply because some of the labels are pretty glaringly false. They have a normal ACOG labeled as a thermal sight and the “tier 2 pelvic protection system” is magazine pouches. To answer your question though, I don’t know offhand how much the Government pays for each set of gear they equip a soldier with. I’m sure it is expensive, but you also have to remember that almost all of that stuff is turned in and reissued to someone else. Sorry I can’t answer more specifically.


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
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in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4423484 - 05/30/18 03:05 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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- Ice Offline
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I remember one of the scenes in Starship Troopers (the book) where Sgt. Jelly is telling them how much their gear actually costs:
Quote
He suddenly straightened up, shouted, "I just want to remind you apes that
each and every one of you has cost the gov’ment, counting weapons, armor, ammo, instrumentation, and
training, everything, including the way you overeat — has cost, on the hoof, better’n half a million. Add in
the thirty cents you are actually worth and that runs to quite a sum." He glared at us. "So bring it back!


- Ice
#4423491 - 05/30/18 03:34 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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VMIalpha454 was spot on.


The cost is dependent on the unit the soldier is in. As shown, the cost is high. But that isn’t the norm. Few soldiers have thermal sights which is a good portion of that amount. Most do not have helmet mounted NVGs which is another big hit. The type and amounts of his body armor are greater than normal. For high-speed combat soldiers there is higher cost than you will see on the vast majority of soldiers.


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#4423508 - 05/30/18 04:42 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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WOW long way from a steel pot,,Cartridge belt and an M-16


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#4423534 - 05/30/18 06:14 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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One has to wonder how the weight of all that equipment effects the performance of the soldier.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4423537 - 05/30/18 06:18 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
One has to wonder how the weight of all that equipment effects the performance of the soldier.



Armies have been contending with that for centuries no? Just think of the typical Roman legionary between the armor, scutum, gladius, pila, etc.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4423541 - 05/30/18 06:38 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
One has to wonder how the weight of all that equipment effects the performance of the soldier.


its not actually that bad, i've tried a full set of british army armour and kit, and whilst you feel it at the end of the day, it doesnt overly slow you down or anything. The killer is when you start having to carry a backpack around with overnight (or several days) worth of patrol stuff in!


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#4423546 - 05/30/18 07:09 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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But you have to account for the weight of the ammunition, grenades, your share of mortar, AT ammo, batteries, etc. It is fighting weight that adds up quickly. And that is all solid unyielding weight. Were you carrying a full fighting load ?


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4423548 - 05/30/18 07:20 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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Dart Offline
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It really, really, really helps to be in one's early to mid twenties when carrying kit.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

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#4423556 - 05/30/18 07:42 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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Historically, Roman legionaries have carried pretty much the same weight in equipment as today's soldiers - around 40kg. There are of course exceptions, like what the British soldiers had to carry across the Falklands, once that the heicopter carrier was hit by a missile and the fire consumed all but one of the Chinooks. The average load per British squaddie went up to 80kg.

Armies spend considerable effort in making gear lighter as 40kg really is about the limit for extended operations, and when the MG is 12kg and another 10 kilos are ammo for it, and the helmet and protection vest go for 25 kilos, there isn't much left for "everything else". Add a mortar with base plate and ammo, or three liters of water per soldier for three days, batteries, radios, boots, rucksacks, food rations, ... it's easy to see how you quickly inflate the load to the point where soldiers need help to even stand up. Which in turn drives up the long-term health costs even without PTSD. Hiking mountaineous terrain with a 60kg backpack, particularly when having to run downhill, and you have a huge load on spine discs, knees, tendons. Plus, the average infantry soldier tends to be of the more beefy type; when I went into the army I weighed 72kg (1.83m tall), so I was lean at the edge of being underweight. ten years later, 85kg (same height), mostly muscle growth. And I wasn't infantry, they tend to be in the 100kg range. So that adds another 25kg base load on the joints, but it's weight that you need in order to be able to carry all the stuff in the first place.


Nevertheless, the quoted figure of 17,000 USD equipment cost per (combat) soldier doesn't sound particularly excessive. But of course only 10% of an army are actual fighters. If you're pushing mice in a brigade HQ, the amount of equipment needed for you to do so is considerably less.

Training, on the other hand, is expensive again. Particularly live training. I estimate the cost of training "me" (from start to finish as a junior armor officer) to having been about 5 million Deutschmarks at the time, equivalent to about $2M. A single cartridge for the 120mm tank gun goes for something between 900 and 3,000 Euros; the Finnish Army calculates with tank ammunition expense of 300,000.- Euros to qualify a tank soldier for combat operations. Our software helped to reduce live ammo consumption by almost 60% in one unit (and improved training results at the same time). A US Army report that I once glanced over mentioned effective fuel prices of 300...400 USD per gallon by the time that it arrived in the Afghan Helmand province. An M1 tank has a fuel capacity of about 450 gallons. So, just fueling a single tank company (in that specific location) costs $1.9M.


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#4423557 - 05/30/18 07:43 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
It really, really, really helps to be in one's early to mid twenties when carrying kit.

Ain't that the truth? When you go north of 50 you can start to really appreciate the after effects! old_simmer biggrin


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#4423560 - 05/30/18 07:54 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
But you have to account for the weight of the ammunition, grenades, your share of mortar, AT ammo, batteries, etc. It is fighting weight that adds up quickly. And that is all solid unyielding weight. Were you carrying a full fighting load ?


it was the "rock" equivalent of your (at the time) bog standard rifleman's weight, basically it was a plate carrier (with plates)+webbing, with rocks of equal weight for 6 mags full of 5.56, small first aid kit, then helmet on top. They had a ruck filled with rocks to simulate the weight of an average backpack, its THOSE that get super heavy! cos thats where you put anything else you might need, but they tend to be the first thing dumped on the ground during a firefight!


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#4423568 - 05/30/18 08:47 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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Join the Air Force. You have to carry your equipment. It carries you!


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#4423608 - 05/31/18 01:40 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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Shoving that stuff out the back of a C130 is a hell of a lot easier than carrying it!


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#4423715 - 05/31/18 02:47 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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Thanks for everybody's input.Some interesting stuff in some posts but it would be nice to for me to know how much each country spends for the equipment of the'' average foot soldier'' as this shows a lot of things,like how much said country values said ''foot soldier''.

I guess it is not easy to get an accurate number,but an approximate estimate would do just fine.
I tried searching google but to no avail.I was hoping that since so many members are (or used to be) in the military,at least some of them would have some idea regarding the cost.


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#4423717 - 05/31/18 02:55 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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I’m willing to take a wild guess here and say that Haiti spends very little on equipmemt for their foot soldiers. biggrin


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#4423726 - 05/31/18 04:29 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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Again, the equipment may not be the best metric to judge how much a country values its soldiers. The cost of training is, IMO, way more relevant. But it's also highly dependent on career choices. And, I suspect, the data are even harder to come by. At the end of the day this is a serious research topic. I at least am always willing to share anecdotes, but if you're seriously interested in reliable figures, I'm not the one to invest all the legwork. The data are open source in most countries if you know how to read a country's public defense budget for any given year. Maybe organizations like SIPRI have already collected such data.


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#4423733 - 05/31/18 04:49 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Ssnake]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
Again, the equipment may not be the best metric to judge how much a country values its soldiers. The cost of training is, IMO, way more relevant. But it's also highly dependent on career choices. And, I suspect, the data are even harder to come by. At the end of the day this is a serious research topic. I at least am always willing to share anecdotes, but if you're seriously interested in reliable figures, I'm not the one to invest all the legwork. The data are open source in most countries if you know how to read a country's public defense budget for any given year. Maybe organizations like SIPRI have already collected such data.



Ssnake I see what you mean,but what I am interested in is the cost of equipment.True, training is just as important but a quick and simple way to see what a country is willing to do in order to protect and seriously provide for the average soldier is the equipment it is willing to spend money on.

The best I managed to find after a quick search is this:
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/...tfit-a-u-s-soldier-mentioned-in-war-dogs

[Linked Image]

Will continue to look for more but any input would be appreciated.


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#4423734 - 05/31/18 04:52 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: No Fear]  
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Are the dollar values for WWII and Vietnam adjusted for inflation?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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