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#4423679 - 05/31/18 12:14 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods ***** [Re: Javelin]  
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wink Just please fix this invisible trees in nvg apache notworthy

#4423790 - 05/31/18 06:14 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: thealx]  
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Originally Posted by thealx
Hi. I see that you have uploaded doc file with list of the changes, but no actual commit appear. Have you pushed it?

About Havoc issue, once again. Have you installed this pack of files made by messyhead? https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_9WsInmSbhuMDMtbVdBVkhaWmc it is required for latest version of the code, where instruments code was changed


I added the files into the repo with my commit...

https://eech.codebasehq.com/project...m/3ddata/objects/Mi-28_Havoc_Instruments

Are there still files missing?

#4423888 - 06/01/18 03:20 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Hey guys, I tried entering my physics code changes into the Master repository using a Push this time, then a Commit. I see it entered now. Success.

I also recompiled using the havok gauges upgrade so 1.16.1 is back on line ready to download. Unfortunately PopUp still isn't working, I'll work on that this weekend.
cohokum_test5.exe is up for download with the Havok gauges upgrade and working Havok helo.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/01/18 04:18 AM.
#4424203 - 06/02/18 06:05 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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OK, cohokum_test6.exe is up, I got the Pop-Up maneuver working again. Somebody changed the way the SHFT, CTRL, and ALT keys function in the code so you can use either the left or right keys and it temporarily messed up my function.

4. A new Pop-Up maneuver has been added. Position the helo behind a building or hill, engage Hover-Hold or Stable-Hover-Hold, then press “SHFT-P” to pop up 20 meters to fire. Press it again to drop back down. "P" is for Pop-Up. This is an automated version of Bob-Up as described in the manual. You could also engage Bob-Up mode "O" on the HUD which gives you a target heading marker. The drift octagon isn't really needed if you use the new Hover-Hold, it's really stable and doesn't drift unless the wind speed is really high. You must be in Hover mode for this function to work.

#4424216 - 06/02/18 07:16 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Awesome! smile

#4424220 - 06/02/18 07:40 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: XIII]  
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Originally Posted by XIII
Awesome! smile

X2

Marc..


HP-Compaq-8100-Elite-SFF-Intel-Core-i5-660-3-33GHz-8GB-250GB-Windows7, GTX1050 -X45+Rudder Pedals, Playseat Challenge
#4424262 - 06/03/18 12:15 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I was interested in how the actual helicopters implement advanced control functions like these and found a paper detailing the testing done on the Comanche control system for the prototypes. I found that they implement Hover-Hold, Altitude-Hold, and one more, Velocity-Stabilization.

Hover-Hold was limited to horizontal and axial motion, no vertical control was implemented because it was intended to be used in conjunction with Altitude-Hold. Our Hover-Hold does all three axes.

The Comanche Altitude-Hold has two modes, below 300 ft it uses the radar altitude like ours currently does, above 300 ft it uses the barometric altitude. I might add the barometric part into ours. The professional system also doesn't concern itself with station keeping, heading keeping, or speed control, all it does is maintain altitude. The professional system also uses a manual control lever, which is used to perform the Bob-Up maneuver as described in the Enemy Engaged manual. We now have an automated version of that. You can also use the incremental hover height adjustments (Alt-J and Alt-K) similar to the lever control described in the paper.

Velocity-Stabilization from what I can tell was only for forward speeds, lateral control was not considered. I've implemented a form of Velocity-Stabilization when you select Altitude-Hold in our control system already. It attempts to keep your speed up to about 50 knots on the low end, and below about 110 knots on the high end. You can be anywhere in that range and it doesn't interfere, and you can over-ride it by simply moving the control stick. The paper didn't go into enough detail on how it functions, so I don't have any more changes in mind at this point. It's mostly for use as a long-distance cruise control, which isn't really too much of an issue with our sim anyway.

I suppose we could separate out each control function like they've done in the professional system, but I don't really see the advantage of that. I really like the controls the way they function now.

I just thought you guys might like knowing that our sim is on par now with the actual flight control systems of the more advanced helicopters.

#4424327 - 06/03/18 03:31 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I love now use hover hold and turn on the autopilot.at 10 g you can see all the forces that work on a helicopter.It's amazing that you came here two weeks ago and you did such a game changer.

#4424409 - 06/03/18 10:34 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Thanks XIII ! It really does change the nature of the sim, doesn't it. Flying the helos is such a pleasure now.

Cohokum_Test7.exe is up on the server. Two major changes.

1. I altered Altitude-Hold to add the Barometric Altitude mode the real Comanche has. When you engage it over 200 meters (660 ft) your helo flys level at altitude, until you fly at a mountain. When your Radar Altitude drops to less than 100 meters (about 300 ft) it shifts into ground following mode so you don't hit the mountain. It's pretty seamless in operation. All of the Russian helicopters do just fine on this mode also.

In testing it I ran into an annoying problem, though. Why does the Comanche Altimeter quit at 500 ft? That's just stupid, someone should fix that. The Apache at least goes up to 1500 ft.

2. I fixed the nose-down problem with the AH-1's, so now the Viper, SeaCobra, and SuperCobra will fly correctly on Altitude-Hold. Before, over 100 knots the darn things would nose down and hit the ground. I don't really know why, but I fixed it anyway.

#4424459 - 06/04/18 10:42 AM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Originally Posted by Javelin
Thanks XIII ! It really does change the nature of the sim, doesn't it. Flying the helos is such a pleasure now.

Cohokum_Test7.exe is up on the server. Two major changes.

1. I altered Altitude-Hold to add the Barometric Altitude mode the real Comanche has. When you engage it over 200 meters (660 ft) your helo flys level at altitude, until you fly at a mountain. When your Radar Altitude drops to less than 100 meters (about 300 ft) it shifts into ground following mode so you don't hit the mountain. It's pretty seamless in operation. All of the Russian helicopters do just fine on this mode also.

In testing it I ran into an annoying problem, though. Why does the Comanche Altimeter quit at 500 ft? That's just stupid, someone should fix that. The Apache at least goes up to 1500 ft.

2. I fixed the nose-down problem with the AH-1's, so now the Viper, SeaCobra, and SuperCobra will fly correctly on Altitude-Hold. Before, over 100 knots the darn things would nose down and hit the ground. I don't really know why, but I fixed it anyway.


Brilliant work!

As for the Comanche quitting at 500ft, I think I remember seeing somewhere that the radar alt stopped at 500ft, so that was how the gauge was built. I remember seeing something like that for my blackhawk project, but I've not looked at the code for quite a while now I can't really remember (makes mental note to pick up the blackhawk project again)

#4424516 - 06/04/18 03:05 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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In the research paper I found on the Comanche controls, it said the altimeter switches over to Barometric Altitude at about that height. It wasn't supposed to stop dead. It would be reasonable though, to simply extend it up to 1500 ft (or more) like the Apache. The Russian Helo altimeters switch over at 300 meters.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19940008849.pdf
On page 424 it says the altimeter switches between radar altitude and barometric altitude at 300 ft.
The HMD shown in the paper is also reversed to the EECH HMD, the altitude is on the left vs. the right on page 425.
It could have changed when they built the prototypes, though.

I also just read a description of the Ka-50 Blackshark control modes. It's just as capable as the Comanche, but far more complicated to operate than ours.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/04/18 04:18 PM.
#4424530 - 06/04/18 04:12 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Noob question :did you change something about the FM code?I know you edit dyn files.but is it the same old flight model that has nothing to do with the laws of physics?What do you think about the flight model now? .Of course, I'm not asking about auto hower and other things.

#4424535 - 06/04/18 04:36 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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The Advanced Flight Model 2 isn't bad, there are only a couple of items that are not physics based. FM2 uses an artificial vertical restorative force rather than off-setting the center of gravity of the helo to use the weight to correctly bring it back to vertical. There is also an artificial heading restorative force which they used instead of modeling the rear vertical stabilizers. Everything else is correctly physics modeled, especially the main rotor. The body drag force should also be moved slightly if I move the center of gravity and the weight force. Other than that, it's actually a pretty good model.

The "G" key Auto-Pilot is another issue altogether, it's not physics based at all. It moves you around without any basis in physics. I'll look at that next, maybe in a few weeks when I get back from the next work trip. Enemy aircraft are probably controlled the same way, but you don't notice it as much since you aren't in the cockpit.

Thinking about it, there are two other forces/behaviors that could be added in. When you hover the helo will drift sideways because of the tail rotor side force. You need a little cyclic angle to counter it. In most helos the manufacturer off-sets the weight distribution to remove this tendency. There is also a gyroscopic force that could be modeled. Let me see if I can get this right... While you are in the act of turning to the right in a helo with a counter-clockwise main rotor, the nose will pitch slightly down during the turn. Turn left and it pitches up. That might be backwards, I'd have to get out my dynamics text to check. These behaviors are hardly noticable, so it isn't that big of a deal if they aren't in the sim. I can go through the code and put in the weight restorative force and the rear stabilizers and remove the artificial ones if you guys want me to. It's pretty close to accurate now, though.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/04/18 04:49 PM.
#4424536 - 06/04/18 04:47 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Thanks.I think you will get a lot of useful information from the manual to dcs black shark.about autopilot modes, hover and so on.on the internet are available manuals in pdf.

#4424542 - 06/04/18 05:05 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Mostly FM2 just needed the correct Inertial values put in, along with the correct weights and engine horsepower. Once I got those numbers in it started to behave a lot better.

I noticed a problem in the Mi-24 Hind, though. It doesn't have the correct vertical restorative force in there, it hangs and doesn't want to come back to vertical if you center the cyclic. I need to look into that. Hopefully it's just something simple like a setting that's missing.

#4424544 - 06/04/18 05:10 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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That's the answer I was asking. cheers so it is much better than I thought.

#4424896 - 06/06/18 03:27 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I figured out the Mi-24 Hind problem, the Cg is too high up. Lower it about 0.5 meters and towards the rear about 0.022 meters and it behaves much better. It operates quite well on the Alt-Hold controller when you adjust it a bit. I'm not going to bother entering the Hind change until I get the Kiowa fixed though, then I'll enter both fixes at once. The Kiowa is going to take quite a bit more work to figure out.

Last edited by Javelin; 06/06/18 03:29 PM.
#4425199 - 06/08/18 03:11 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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I tried this out today in the Apache only, and it's great. The helo feels much more realistic in manoeuvring.

I was trying out the hover hold and pop-up. I hit the ground a few times, so I'll try and recreate it and see what happens.

Also, when I engage Hover or Stable-hover, it drops me to 20m and hovers there. Even if I was much higher when I engaged it. Again, I'll try it again and see if it happens every time.

Another thing I noticed. When I first engaged Pop up, it went up 20m. But then after I'd used alt-j/k to adjust my height, it went up a lot more.

It also dropped me into the ground when I switched pop-up off.

I think what I did was...

Engage pop-up, adjust height down using alt-J
dis-engage pop-up - dropped to the ground.

I didn't have time to properly watch everything I was doing, so I'll try it step by step. I'll try it another time and let you know.

#4425216 - 06/08/18 04:53 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Hi Messyhead,
Stable-Hover sets the Hover height and maintains that height.
Alt-J and Alt-K adjust the Hover height down/up respectively. Watch your altitude gauge as you press the keys,
it jogs up or down 10 ft or 5 meters depending upon whether you are blue or red.

Pop-Up works Up and Down from the Hover height.
Pop-Up toggles Up 20m on the first keypress, then Down 20m on the second keypress.

Does that clear up the functions?



Last edited by Javelin; 06/08/18 05:10 PM.
#4425220 - 06/08/18 05:09 PM Re: EECH Test build - Hover Mods [Re: Javelin]  
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Originally Posted by Javelin
Hi Messyhead,
Stable-Hover sets the Hover height and maintains that height.
Alt-J and Alt-K adjust the Hover height down/up respectively. Watch your altitude gauge as you press the keys,
it jogs up or down 10 ft or 5 meters depending upon whether you are blue or red.

Pop-Up works Up and Down from the Hover height.
Pop-Up toggles Up 20m on the first keypress, then Down 20m on the second keypress.

Does that clear up the functions?



Is blue feet, and red metres?

In the Apache, it was going up and down by around 70 marks (whether that's feet or metres). But that was after I'd already used the height adjustment. I'll try it again, and keep track of what I'm doing. i was just playing around quickly with it.

p.s. I'm a software tester, and the fact I think I've spotted an issue and not properly recreated it is bothering me. I'll do it justice next time I'm on biggrin

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