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#4421055 - 05/16/18 05:28 PM How Hollywood fabricates history  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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I just recently saw "Valkyrie" again starring Tom Cruise as von Stauffenberg who as most of us here know was one of the main masterminds behind the July 20, 1944 bomb plot against Hitler. What really struck me after this recent viewing is that the film portrays the motives of the conspirators to be based entirely on moral/ethical grounds. In other words "Hitler's regime is evil and horrible and we have to get rid of him".


The reality was quite different. In fact, vastly different.


Here is an excerpt I read today which largely contradicts how the film portrayed the conspirators:

"Motivation and goals of the plot
While the main goal of the plotters was to remove Hitler from power, they did so for various reasons. The majority of the group behind the 20 July plot were conservative nationalists and did not necessarily believe in democratic ideas.[11][12] Martin Borschat writes that the plot was mainly done by conservative elites who were initially integrated by the Nazi government but during the war lost their influence and were concerned about regaining it.[13]

Territorial demands towards the Allies
Among demands issued by the plotters towards the Allies were such points as re-establishment of Germany's 1914 boundaries with Belgium, France and Poland and no reparations. Plotters demands meant annexation to pre-1939 Germany of 70,000 square kilometers of non-German territory, especially the disputed Polish areas;as such the proposals couldn't have been agreed to.[14][page needed] Like most of the rest of German resistance, the July 20th plotters believed in the idea of Greater Germany and as condition for peace demanded that western allies recognize at minimum the Nazi annexations of Austria, Alsace- Sudetenland, and Polish territories, with even restoration of some of the overseas colonies. They believed that Europe should be controlled under German hegemony[15].

The overall goals towards Poland were mixed within the plotters. Most of the plotters found it desirable to restore the old German borders from 1914, while others pointed out that the demands were unrealistic and amendments had to be made.[16] Some like Friedrich-Werner Graf von der Schulenburg even saw all of Poland annexed to Germany.[17]"


So in a nutshell, most of the conspirators wanted to get rid of Hitler because they saw him as incompetent and causing Germany to lose the war and they wanted to save a sinking ship and return it to glory. They did not want to get rid of him for ethical/moral reasons such as of course implementing the Final Solution and establishing a brutal totalitarian system.





Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 05/16/18 05:53 PM.

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#4421058 - 05/16/18 05:48 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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No surprise there PM most of us here have an understanding of history but the average citizen wants to see the likes of Tom Cruise....Just watched Memphis Belle yesterday and at least the photography was good


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#4421059 - 05/16/18 05:54 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: rwatson]  
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Originally Posted by rwatson
No surprise there PM most of us here have an understanding of history but the average citizen wants to see the likes of Tom Cruise....Just watched Memphis Belle yesterday and at least the photography was good



Yes, "Memphis Belle" also has its own set of inaccuracies but its not nearly as bad as "Valkyrie" in my opinion.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 05/16/18 05:55 PM.

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#4421062 - 05/16/18 06:07 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Hollywood has been telling it's own version of historical events for as long as there has been a Hollywood. How about "Birth of a Nation" for a rearranging of history!?


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#4421068 - 05/16/18 06:26 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Or the "Inglorious Basterds" version of Hitler's death?

v6,
boNes


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#4421069 - 05/16/18 06:32 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: bones]  
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Originally Posted by bones
Or the "Inglorious Basterds" version of Hitler's death?

v6,
boNes
. That film doesn’t count since it was meant as a pulp comic book version of WW II.


"Captain America" also wasn't very accurate with its WWII historical facts. wink

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 05/16/18 06:46 PM.

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#4421074 - 05/16/18 06:50 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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The truth is stranger than fiction, but it doesn't sell a lot of movie tickets and DVD's.


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#4421075 - 05/16/18 06:52 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Trying to kill Hitler = good.

Trying to kill Hitler because he's not winning the war = bad.

Nuance does not fit well within a two hour movie.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

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#4421080 - 05/16/18 07:02 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: LB4LB]  
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Originally Posted by LB4LB
The truth is stranger than fiction, but it doesn't sell a lot of movie tickets and DVD's.



You are absolutely right! I just think it's sad how many people don't even notice the inaccuracies in these movies and even worse, just accept it all at face value as accurate history.


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#4421081 - 05/16/18 07:08 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Even old masters like Shakespeare rewrote stuff to make it more dramatic and viewable.

It's been happening since the dawn of historytelling.
Nothing new about Hollywood doing it.

#4421082 - 05/16/18 07:10 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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Originally Posted by EAF331 MadDog

Nothing new about Hollywood doing it.



True but the Hollywood system makes billions and billions off of it. smile


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#4421083 - 05/16/18 07:12 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by EAF331 MadDog

Nothing new about Hollywood doing it.



True but the Hollywood system makes billions and billions off of it. smile


I think that if you add up how much Shakespeares "historical" plays have made in 500 years of playing, it's a #%&*$# of money too.

#4421088 - 05/16/18 07:34 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Yeah watch any "historical" movie and sit with a pad a write the wrong stuff down It's just a matter of degrees ..but in the end it just might encourage some to go out and read something on the subject ....i know because as a kid the movie "The Longest Day" got me started on WW II history and that back handed me to the Civil War and a life time of learning wiish I had another life time to learn more,,I watched TLD back when you bought a ticket and could sit through multiple showings and I did all day


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#4421091 - 05/16/18 07:45 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Going off on a slight tangent, I'm not convinced that TV news is any better. And that's not based on recent events, that's been forever. I first got a taste of that back in the early '90s when I was interviewed about the Michelangelo virus. They cut together the footage they shot of me and had me saying almost the complete opposite of what I actually said. They had a story in mind when they got there, asked me specific questions to get the sound bites they wanted, and went with that. I think TV news stories should have the same statement applied to them as the Hollywood movies - "Based on actual events."


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#4421100 - 05/16/18 08:59 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Careful, this might get moved to PWEC

Is history even taught in grade school anymore?


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There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4421111 - 05/16/18 09:54 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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For the record, I wasn't trying to get political, I just meant that TV news, like Hollywood, is more interested in telling an exciting story than reporting facts, and that is for everything, not just politics.


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#4421117 - 05/16/18 10:17 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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yup, doesnt matter what country its in, the media as a whole exsists to sell itself, so they'll make/write/say what sells in the current opinions of likely buyers, regardless of history or facts. As the saying goes "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story!"

but back to the original topic ... U-1571 is a prime example of trying to rewrite history to suit the market!


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#4421118 - 05/16/18 10:18 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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I'm firmly of the opinion that eveyone has their own agenda, whether it be financial trying to produce a box office hit or trying to influence and/or shape opinion in some way. It is not necessarily malicious it is just beholden on the viewer to question things. This is not recent, you only have to watch many of the old Pathe newsreal from WW2 that would have been on general release at the time. They were not really news more, understandably, about maintaining morale or propoganda. Similarly, when I read an historical book, I can't help but question what is the author's agenda. Two historians can relay the same apparent history, but by placing emphasis on different aspects can, seemingly, portray completely different versions of events. But then again, maybe I've just grown into a cynical old git! yep

#4421119 - 05/16/18 10:18 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
Careful, this might get moved to PWEC

Is history even taught in grade school anymore?


Not as such, no...


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#4421121 - 05/16/18 10:41 PM Re: How Hollywood fabricates history [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Thanks for the replies so far. This is why I love SimHQ!


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