SOURCE CODE ACCESS

The source code is hosted on Github. It remains under Licence, although it has been amended to make it relevant to the current repository.

You can find the repo on Github

The code repo has now been made public. The reason for doing so was that there was an ongoing cost to keep the repo private, which I didn't think was necessary any more. I'm also hoping that with it being public, it might encourage others to get involved in modding it.

Some old branches have been removed, and it's just the latest that remain, plus a few historic ones - like Arnehs Apache avionics that was too good to remove - maybe some day it'll be made to work.

Contact the repo owner via their email on Github to be added as a contributor, that way you don't have to form the repo.


Instructions on how to get the source can be found in the EECH Wiki;

EECH-Wiki - Source Code Access


For source code access discussions, use this thread;

EECH Source Code Discussion

I have read and agree to the terms and conditions of the EECH licence
at http://eechcentral.SimHQ.com/index.php?title=EECH_License

Reason: I intend to try my hand at fixing some issues I've been having with yaw controls. I've also been having some crash to desktop issues, I may try to reproduce those with a debugger attached. And, possibly to admire the dynamic campaign code

Hi Woozle24,
I've had some crash problems too, I've watched carefully as I've been testing my own mods and one of the issues seems to have something to do with selecting a specific Session. If you attempt to switch to another scenario after picking one already, it crashes. If you select a Session, play a round, then go back in to select another Session, it crashes. I've learned to simply shut down the program and restart if I want to select a different map or scenario. It would be nice if someone fixed that.

I've also had it crash when going through the menus setting up a session if I double-click on a selection. Single-clicking works, double-clicking doesn't.

I can point you into the block of code where the input controls for yaw are processed, if that would help. Go into:
...\EECHSourceCode\aphavoc\source\gunships\dynamics\

I'm working on dynamics.c, and in \dynamics\common\co_force.c and co_event.c

What kind on problems are you experiencing with Yaw? I'm not happy with the code not addressing the yawing moments the tail surfaces put on the airframe, only a tail rotor is addressed in the code. I intend on adding in something to simulate the vertical stabilizer. I've got an equation I've used before for a similar sim, on an airplane.
Javelin

Yes i have this problem. easy to replicate:When you choose campaign, or mission, start mission, and back to main menu,and choose another campaign, game ALWAYS ctd when yuu click mouse button on specific campaign.
Also doubleclick on campaign cause ctd.

Hi Guys, I did a search on the web to track down the license holder for EECH, It ended at indiePub Entertainment, Inc. which closed it's doors in 2013. I don't think there IS a license holder anymore. There is also no way to tell if EECH ownership even transferred with each company change, or if it was dropped somewhere along the line from the properties list.

Here is the chain of companies that have (possibly) held the license. (Each company closed and sold out to the next Co. in line.)
Razorworks
Empire Interactive
Silverstar Holdings
New World IP
Zoo Games
indiePub Entertainment, Inc.

Nobody bought the rights to games owned by IndiePub when they closed in 2013, so there isn't a license holder anymore.
I vote we set up the codebase on GitHub and make it easy on everyone.

Could you post links to show your findings?

Enemy Engaged 2 was published by G2 Games, which isn't on your list. They would have held the licence to the source code. I think I tracked them down to a company in Canada that still existed.

Edit: Actually, the company I found was Strategy First, that was owned by Silverstar Holdings. When I was looking into it, they were still going.

Razorworks

Razorworks was a video game developer based in Oxfordshire, United Kingdom. Razorworks was founded in August 1996 and was owned by the video game publisher Empire Interactive. The Razorworks studio was closed in July 2008 due to Empire Interactive's poor financial situation (Empire Interactive subsequently went into administration (bankruptcy) in May 2009).

G2 Games

Game: Enemy Engaged 2
Developer: G2 Games
Publisher: Strategy First
Release dates Windows, 25 May 2007

Strategy_First

In 2004, Strategy First Inc filed for bankruptcy protection. On April 21, 2005 it was acquired by Silverstar Holdings. Terms of the acquisition included "cash consideration to the creditors of Strategy First of $609,000; we issued 377,000 shares of our common stock; warrants to purchase 200,000 shares of our common stock; and assumed approximately $400,000 in existing bank debt, as well as contingent consideration based on the future profitability of Strategy First."[3] Silverstar Holdings Ltd. was a publicly traded company registered in Bermuda (traded on NASDAQ under symbol SSTR), with their web home page stating that they are "focusing on acquiring controlling positions in high-growth retail-driven and fee-based electronic game businesses that could benefit from the economies of scale generated by the Internet and other technology-related platforms." Silverstar completed a purchase of game developer Empire Interactive on December 4, 2006, and claimed in a same-day press release that with the addition of Empire Interactive titles to the Valve 'Steam' service, "we are delighted that in this short time the first collaborative effort between Empire and Strategy First has born fruit."[4]

Subsequent to the SEC 10-Q filing, Silverstar reported that on May 1, 2009 their Empire Interactive division filed for "administration" (bankruptcy) in the UK, and that "Empire has sold its intellectual property assets to New World IP, LLC ",[7] and all 49 staff were laid off.[8] New World IP then leased the rights to publish Empire's entire catalogue to Zoo Games.[9]

Empire_Interactive

Empire Interactive was a publisher of interactive entertainment software for 22 years. Headquartered in the UK, they also had offices in the U.S., Germany, France, Spain and Italy. The company developed and published a varied range of titles for all contemporary platforms in the U.S., Europe and Asia. Games such as Starsky & Hutch, Big Mutha Truckers, the Ford Racing series and FlatOut were some of their major successes.[2] They also operated the "Xplosiv" and "eJay" imprints, focusing on budget titles and music creation tools respectively.

After struggling financially for several years, they were purchased by Silverstar Holdings in 2006 and became a wholly owned subsidiary. On 4 May 2009 it was announced that the company had gone into administration (bankruptcy) and would be shutting down permanently. Their intellectual properties were sold to New World IP of the United States and all 49 staff were laid off.[3] New World IP then leased the rights to publish Empire's entire catalogue to Zoo Games.[4]

IndiePub

On May 7, 2009 it was announced by Zoo Publishing that the company had acquired the rights from New World IP to publish and distribute Empire Interactive's entire catalog which includes titles such as Big Mutha Truckers and Flatout Head On.[2] The rights were acquired from New World IP who had recently purchased Empire's intellectual property as the company went into administration.[2] In June 2009, Zoo Games created a wholly owned subsidiary, Zoo Entertainment Europe Ltd., in order to move into the European market however, operations were discontinued in December 2009.

indiepub-entertainment

indiePub Entertainment, Inc. was a US company initially founded as Driftwood Ventures, Inc. on 12th February 2003. The company was renamed Zoo Entertainment, Inc. on 3rd December 2008 after the acquisition of Green Screen Interactive Software, Inc. (renamed Zoo Games, Inc.), Destination Software, Inc. (renamed Zoo Publishing, Inc.) and also briefly Supervillain Studios, Inc. and ZOO Digital Publishing Ltd., along with the short-lived Zoo Entertainment Europe Ltd. The company mainly conducted its operations through the wholly-owned subsidiary Zoo Games, Inc., which in turn had Zoo Publishing, Inc. as a subsidiary.

Between 2009 and 2011 the company was best known for publishing games mainly for the Nintendo DS and Wii platforms, but also a few for Windows, PS2 and Xbox 360. In 2009 2Bee Games was launched, as a sponsor who also organized competitions for independent developers. In 2010 2Bee Games was renamed indiePub. The company eventually focused entirely on this operation and in September 2011 it was announced the company had been working for a year on an indies-only game and application (apps) distribution or publishing platform where developers using indiePub would receive 75% of all royalties. On 1st February 2011 indiePub Mobile was announced to branch out to mobile iOS and Android games. The name of the parent company Zoo was changed to indiePub Entertainment, Inc. on 15th May 2012. Although Zoo Games and Zoo Publishing continued to exist, but with no further output beyond 2011, most of the operations were most likely handled through the Delaware company indiePub, Inc. In 2013 all activity was halted and all indiePub and Zoo companies were closed. The last indiePub-published game was Vessel in September 2013.

---------------------------------------
I also looked up "New World IP, LLC" Delaware file number 4681219, which was filed in 4/28/2009. The company filing no longer exists in the system, it is no longer registered as a company. I also checked the address, which is now occupied by Harvard Business Services. I called Harvard Business Services and they don't represent New World IP, nor could they find it in their Delaware company database. From what I can tell New World IP doesn't exist anymore. I think they were the last holder of the license after Zoo Publishing/IndiePub closed their doors. All license leases reverted back to New World IP after Zoo Publishing defaulted on their lease of the licenses. Since we don't have a list of the 69 properties they leased, it's not clear if Enemy Engaged was even in the collection. There are 75 games listed on wikipedia for Empire Interactive, a few more than the lease agreement, and it does include EECH and EEAH.

Court Case against Zoo Publishing

New World IP LLC v. Zoo Publishing Inc. et al
United States District Court, Southern District of New York
Case No.1:11-cv-02532, Filed on April 13, 2011
In April of 2011, New World brought suit against Zoo for violation of a licensing agreement between the two companies. Law360 reported that under this licensing agreement, New World granted Zoo the rights to produce more than 60 games it owned in exchange for a royalty payment. New World alleged that Zoo had not provided it with any of the royalty accounting and thus the licensing agreement had been breached. Moreover, New World believed that Zoo owed a minimum royalty payment of around $1.9 million. When Zoo refused to pay the minimum royalty payment, New World ended the licensing agreement between them. After this termination, New World determined that Zoo had not ceased the use of its trademarks. In its defense, Zoo alleged that 65 out of 69 games covered by the licensing could not be sold or produced since they were not complete. Zoo further claimed that it had already spent $500,000 on finishing the games so that it could sell them. Besides, Zoo alleged that it had already paid royalties to New World in the amount of $500,000.

In August of 2011, the case was dismissed since the parties reached a confidential settlement agreement outside of court.

Empire Interactive games list

That's some great detective work. I think I'd followed that trail before, but didn't have it all written out like.

So it seems that the licence holder is closed. My only concern is if New World IP, LLC exists as some legal entity that someone could acquire in the future, and therefore acquire the licenses it held.

I'm no legal expert, so not sure if them being closed means they're gone, and all the licenses with it, or if there's some legal status that they're in. Effectively not operating, but still an entity that could be purchased. That would be the only thing that could jeopardise the licence in future.

I think that it's probably the case that the licence was void some time ago, but noone in the EECH community has ever had the legal knowledge to look into it properly, or sought any legal advice on the licence status.

I wonder if we'd be able to engage with anyone at GoG.com to ask their advice, as they sell DRM free games, and must have come across licence issues in the past.


As for putting the code on an open repository - it would get around the current access issue. However, as a community we'd have to accept that their could be a possibility of multiple versions of the game being distributed, and all of the headaches that would cause. There's no requirement for anyone working on the code to be a member of this forum, or even communicate what they're working on. In fact, I remember a couple of years ago, there was someone posting videos on youtube of work they were doing, but there was nothing on the forum about it. I think that might have come from the current Github repo.

I've recently got back into playing IL-2 1946. There are many mod packages available for that, some of varying quality, and some of varying requirements. It was actually a bit of a headache to get them working.

I found this as well about trademarks, which is cancelled...

https://trademarks.justia.com/755/97/enemy-engaged-75597835.html

I'm just reading through the licence again. When you buy the game on GoG.com, I think it's already patched to v11, so it already includes mods added by the community. So would I be right in saying that GoG.com would be in breach of this line in the licence?



In which case, as I would think GoG.com would have checked this, maybe they know that the licence is void?

It sounds like GoG has figured out the status of the license, that it's basically void since no one owns Empire Interactive's IP anymore.
I agree, they wouldn't be able to sell for profit as it's a breach of the license when the mods are included.
I'll email GoG and see if I can get an answer from of them.

I've queried GoG's legal department.

As to distributions, I think we can still control the 'official' distribution on EECH Central on SimHQ without much trouble. It won't be any different than it is now.
A person could still release something on their own, but it wouldn't have the Forum's oversight.

In anticipation of us putting this on Github, as I think that will happen, I've created a repo...

https://github.com/enemy-engaged-developers/eech_source_code


I added a GPL3 licence to it, which (I think) means anyone can change the code, but they're not allowed to distribute closed versions of the source code.


If we hear back from GoG, or if we don't but decide to just do it, I'll upload the repo that I cloned on AWS as that was the latest version of all branches (although I think you had changes to add Javelin)

That sounds good.
I haven't heard back from GoG yet, not sure if they will reply. Legal departments tend to be closed mouth until threatened.

Yes, I have a couple of refinements to the code. I can add them in if you don't.
I'm working on the exported mfd's for the Hind right now. I have the map one back up and I want to do a Flight one for the left side.
I might tackle the Ka-50 exported mfd's after that, but that will take more work.

The more I think about this, and read back about the licence holders, the more I'm convinced to just put it on Github. All the evidence points to there being no licence holder. If there was one, we would have found it from the trail of companies.

And the licence basically said that if you make changes to the code, then any licence holder could use those changes as their own. So we (as in the eech community) don't own the code. But as there's no licence holder that we can find, noone owns the code. Also, the licence explicitly states that the agreement is between You as a user and Empire, which no longer exists. Silverstar holdings or New World IP never issued any update to the licence amending who the agreement was between, and I can't see anything in the licence stating that the ownership of the code would pass on. Although I suppose there might have been some legal proceeding that passed ownership on when Empire got taken over.

The licence doesn't really say anything about where the code should be hosted. I seem to remember that the reason it was put on a private repo, was so that they could control who accessed it after agreeing to the licence terms.


So basically, with my layman's knowledge, the licence looks to be void. And based on everything you traced about the companies, there's no licence holder in existence.

So..... I'm off to upload the repo to Github.

Be right back.....

And done.


If you PM with your Github username, I'll add you as a collaborator

Excellent! Done.

I've done a bit more digging into this. I had added a GPL licence to it, but I don't think that it can be truly made open source. The Copyright is still with Empire / Razorworks. From what I've read, copyright can last for 70 years, even after the copyright holder no longer exists. It seems complicated, so I thought it would be best not to mess with it.

The licence holder or holder of the intellectual property, and copyright holder seem different things.

So I've edited the original licence so that it doesn't refer to downloading a Zip file, or agreeing when you click a button. That was the method under which the original source code was distributed.

The original modders put it on a private repo so that they could ensure that modders agreed to the licence before getting access. This was to please Empire when they were still around.

But the licence actually states that Empire wished to make the source code publicly available. So having it in a private repo went against that, and having it on Github goes with the intention of the licence.

The rest of the licence seems kind of similar to the intent of the GPL licence, in that anyone can modify it, and distribute it, as long as the licence is included. The difference being that Empire could use any modifications in future releases. So it actually still serves our needs by keeping it there.

I need to resolve one part of the current licence. The Acceptance Date. At the moment, it's set as the date when click on Agree, as in the button that at some point existed on a web page, to allow you to download the code. This hasn't existed for quite a while, and even when we had it on a private repo, that part of the licence didn't match up.

So I was thinking about what to change it to? Anyone can clone or download the code now, and there's no traceability of who does it (I can see how many times it's been cloned, but not by who). The only traceability is when someone commits.

So do I change the Acceptance Date to the date that they make a commit, or just make it when they clone or download the code?

It makes more sense to use the Clone date to me.

I was thinking that.

I've Pushed all of my changes to Master, for reference. All the physics settings files are updated as well as the Hover Mods.

Modding Tip:. Finding things in the code is easier if you've set up Windows Search correctly. Right click the Start Button, select Search, put in Indexing Options, then modify to include the target HDD. File types are under the Advanced options and need to include .c, .h, .cpp and .txt files.

Once it finishes indexing, you can search for specific routines and variables inside ANY of the code files just by typing the text into the Windows Search documents box in file explorer.

If you use an ide, like eclipse CDT which is free, you can also use the search facility in that to find anything you need. You can also use ctrl alt H on a function to see what uses it.

What compiler are you using with CDT for EECH? I've been using Watcom so far with no ide.

I still use watcom from the command line. I haven't looked into compiling or debugging in the ide

Ok, thanks. I may try that out, compiling from the ide.

Looks like you never learn, messyhead. All developers was against pushing ECCH code to the open repository, but again you made a decision by yourself and here we are.
To make it clear - I forbid you, or anyone else to push my commits into public repository like GitHub. Am I clear?
Next time you'll want to make such decisions - ask every contributor about their opinion first. That is not childish games.

Excellent. A few years stagnation, finally something moved, and such a #%&*$#.
You really did not write pm to anyone before moving everything to github?

Hey guys, what's the deal? I did a LOT of detective work last year, made several long distance phone calls and determined that the license to the code was totally abandoned back in about 2011. Releasing the code onto GIThub is NOT violating anyone's license. The license was not passed on in any legal venue, it was abandoned. If you have issues with releasing code that you individually worked on, that's your own matter. As I've always understood things, this was a public enterprise and sharing our efforts to improve the sim was what this is all about. I don't expect anyone to ask my permission to distribute the code I've worked on, I expect it to be shared universally for the common good. If you don't like my mods, fine, don't use them. Your choice. If you don't want to share your efforts, fine. Don't upload anything to the server. Keep it to yourself.

This is a great community project with lots of interested players all over the world. Why does placing the code up on GIThub make you mad? Access to make changes is still tightly controlled. Yes, people can look at it, but there has been a copy of the original code up on GIThub for a decade that no one here had anything to do with. It's still there. No one has asked for it to be removed. So what has Messyhead done that violates the community charter to make EECH better that we've all pretty much assumed to be true from the start?

Here's the other version up on GIThub:
Original GIThub Release from 2009.

Learn what?



Evidence?



Where?

A decision had to be made or the access to the repo would have been lost. I'm happy to set up a paid repo if we can get some concrete funding in place for it. I'm not funding it alone.



Feel free to uncommit all of your changes to the code, and push again to master, and we can declare the code dead. Also, just so you know, there has been a github repo for the code created by someone else quite some time before I did, and it contains your commits. Feel free to contact and forbid them while you're at it.

https://github.com/clach04/eech/commits/master



What does that mean?

Just to add, why??

Why not just allow those that want to work on the code and add improvements to just get on with it? None of us is profiting from it, and in fact, spending our own personal time on working on mods. So why now come along and forbid use of your mods?

Gee, and I thought this was supposed to be a friendly gentleman's forum, people who liked EECH and wanted to help make it better. There are only a tiny hand full of us working on the sim in the first place. No need to get hot under the collar, don't we all want the same thing? I want EECH to be the premier helicopter sim around, don't you guys?

Agreed.

come on thealx, it's me Xiii,it was my idea mouse zoom (remember?you first mod) hesco and airfields mod, advanced symbology, ka 50 cockpit and dozens of other things that you did. so i think i can take a voice.do not destroy this simulator, it does not make sense.without you work its end eech .
We all love eech and helos.

Hey thealx,

what's wrong here? Why not coming back to EECH? All we want is to make EECH staying alive. Did you mean, that if nobody is working on it for years, it will survive or even play any role in the simulation genre again?

What were your plans for it? Waiting another 3 to 4 years before improving something? I really could not understand you!

Everyone of us had always respected the work you had done for EECH. Without your work Allmods wouldn't even exist. But if you do not have the time or desire to work on it again, should it die?

I don't claim about code itself - change it, copy it, remove, whatever. But history of commits, which is public available now, can be easily linked with my person. In case of 1.15.2/1.16.0 It's not cool but not a tragedy. Now I see some discussions about Hind mod (1.15.4 test version) which can not appear in public, as it may put me in danger. If anyone will need some stuff from there, code should be copied manually.
For myself, I am continue to move 1.15.4 features to latest release, optimizing and debugging each peace of code. Progress is slow, but hope some day I will finish both Hind and Apache. In such circumstances I can't see the way how it can be pushed to the master, so it will be stand-alone mod if nothing changes.

I agree with keeping the clickable cockpits separate, one of the features of EECH is the ability to jump from one helo to another without having to learn an entirely different set of controls. I like that feature. Clickable cockpits are for ex-pilots and the most serious Sim pilots. I'm a more casual gamer.

I don't know how modding could get you in trouble, but I'll take you're word on that. Safe travels.

It was never my intention to cause problems for anyone. I'll send you a PM so it's not all out on the forum.

Take care thealx,good luck.
Its good idea make separate version for hardcore .
I agree normal eech is great fun and easy for casual players.
But if thealx give permission, it would be great to put the gunner cockpit mi24 in 1.16.clean cockpit,without switches.

I've looked at the clickable cockpit code, it's really complicated. The best way to import the model would be for someone to load the model along with all of the switches and movable pieces into Lightwave all at once, then export the whole thing in one piece, then rename it so it matches the original, with the same subobjects as the original, MFD, needles, etc. Just my observation.

Keeping all the little moving parts would mean keeping all the animations, and a complicated rendering routine. Combining all of that into one model would make it much simpler to work with.

I've been chatting with thealx about the issues he raised, which won't be disclosed here.

However, it means that I'm going to pay for Github pro, and make the repo private. I don't mind paying, as it's only $7 per month, or $84 per year. I'll keep it monthly for now, then if there's going to be continued development work, we can dicuss paying for it for a year. And if I ever get to the point of not wanting to be the admin anymore, I'll arrange handing over to someone else.

The Pro account will also give us more control over access to the code as well, so it's probably for the best. Everyone that's using the repo at the moment is on as a collaborator, so access shouldn't change.

I've now made the repo private. Should I restore the original licence, or add some other licence that make it non-shareable?


Edit: Actually, I just re-read the licence and realised it's mainly the same as the original, so I'll leave it as it is. I had in my head that I'd made it a GPL licence.

Does anyone know who the http://eech.robfox.net/utils.html website is maintained by? It would be nice if he would make the source code available for his utilities, maybe one of us could add in some features and upgrade the editor tools.

I tried a Whois search on the site and it is still a live site (registered to 2021) but all personal details were replaced by "REDACTED FOR PRIVACY".

Guess he doesn't want people contacting him.

I seem to remember a guy called Rob on this forum a while ago putting up links to a terrain editor. I'll have a look and see if I can find him.

Cheers,

Andy

I might dig through my emails. I seem to remember having contact with them a while ago, but I'll not put their details on here. If I can get in touch about the source code, I'll let you know. I remember being in touch with someone about a GWUT editor, and got the source code, but I can't remember if it's the same person.

I think Sockzien used the terrain and map editors last to make the Poland map, so they might know.

Back Again,

I found a copy of Robfox's BED utility that I'd downloaded years ago and unzipped it. In the introduction were comments on how it came about. It seems that user CEP}|{ATH contacted him about using it and he allowed it. It intro was written by Starshoy who I'm pretty sure is still a member of the forum.

It may be worthwhile trying to contact Starshoy and see if he has any contact details for Robfox.

Cheers,

Andy

Please may I have access to the source code

I have created a GitHub user account - name: @GlynD02

I have read and agree to the terms and conditions of the EECH licence
at http://eechcentral.SimHQ.com/index.php?title=EECH_License

Reason: I would like to have a look at exporting another set of MFDs and maybe even a gunners sight on seperate monitors

Done. You should get an invite link.

Thanks Messyhead - got the link and accepted

Cheers
Glyn

Hi, I see EECH is still alive, which is great. Is it still on DX7, or has anyone managed to upgrade to 9 at least ? I now have some spare time, and could have another look at getting the graphics engine updated to DX9 or even 11/12 if possible, or actually, maybe Vulkan would be a better choice now.
Do you mind sharing access to the current version please ?
I agree to the license @ http://eechcentral.SimHQ.com/index.php?title=EECH_License

EDIT: I also want to add direct support for Tobii EyeX, as I use it instead of TrackIR, and it's awesome.

Cheers,
Tomasz

Hi. Getting the graphics updated is still one of the biggest goals. Some of it was moved to D3D9, but it still uses DirectX7. I take it that's an area of expertise of yours?

What's your github username and I'll send an invite?

Czesc?
Now eech is in dx9 but there are no graphical improvements, there had no one to implement.More info you get from others.

I didn't think it moved to DX9 fully, I thought it was Direct Draw 9 or D3d9? I might be mistaken, I'd have to look again at the 1.16 release notes.

Hey. Rendering code uses Direct3D9 functions, but most scenes/surfaces draw and translation applied by custom C functions.

FYI, Ogre migration was started years ago - basic rendering function works but project is frozen at the moment. All code available in master branch inside OGREEE definition check.

Converting game to the DX11, for example, is possible, but you need to know in details how game works - otherwise you are risking to choose wrong rendering methods which will cause wasting of time. And you need advanced knowledge in DX programming of course.

Adding control device support should be easier task, especially if libs exists for the C.

Thanks, that will be: dr3adl0rd

If EECH is already DX9, then it should be fairly straightforward to move it further to DX11, and use HW tesselation shaders for terrain. Autogen like grass and Trees could also be done better.

Recently I was mostly focused on UE4 development, but I did spend some considerable time working directly with DirectX and OpenGL on a low level. I'm primarily C/C++/C# and Java (+many other HL langs) developer with 25 years exp. I used to be part of EECH and the discussion group some 10 years ago IIRC (can't remember the nick I used back then), but life required some drastic changes and I lost contact completely.

Cheers,
Tomasz

Wow, that's awesome to have one of the original devs back, and with your experience.

I don't know much C, and everything I've learned is through looking at this code. I work mainly in Java and Python for web/mobile apps and test automation. The graphics side is pretty unknown to me.

thealx is also pretty active and has good experience and has done a lot for the game.

I'll send you an invite soon.

This is the release thread for the last major release. It says it's now using Direct3D9. I'm not sure if that means it's using DirectX 9 or just some libraries. You'll know more than I.

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4234430/eech-ver1-16-0-is-out


EDIT: I just noticed thealx's reply above.

thealx and I are adding to the master branch in preparation for a 1.16.1 release. So it could be an idea to take a branch off it.

Thanks for the invite, I'll clone from the master, and have a go at the build now.
Are you still using VS2008 for the building process, and is it something you would be willing to upgrade as well ?

It's still using Watcom for the build process, I don't think it was converted to fully build in VS2008. If that's something you could do, and it's better, then no problem. I've never used VS though, I use Eclipse just now.

Oh my, I think I would prefer to get it built in VS first tbh.
Are there any plans to make EECH multiplatform? Because that could impact the build process as well.

So, it seems it's using DX9 2007, which is the last one to include DirectPlay. The 2009 version didn't have that anymore, as it has been deprecated.
So, moving forward, I would be focusing on replacing the direct play based functionality, so that we can move on to more recent versions of the DX, or away from it completely.

you can find MSVC project files in master repo. code compatibly check was made about 5 years ago last time (for VS2008 I think), so you probably will have some errors and a lot of warnings in compile process. if you think it's crucial - we can switch to VS as well.

The switching to VS would probably need to be majority's decision, but If everyone is fine with that, I can make it work with VS 2019 Community before making any other changes. The compiler in VS2019 is really good, and we can benefit from a lot of code optimisations too.

Also, do we have a dedicated thread or discussion group for code discussions and such as above, or do we do it here ? In the past there was mailiing list but I believe it's no more.
We could always create a Google group for this.

Cheers

Do you know who did the Ogre conversion work? Is the Ogre conversion still something we want to push on with ?

Firebird (casm in commits author) initiated this project. you can get some info here https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4383394/ogreee-once-again#Post4383394
We agreed that he will make most rendering functionality, and I will help with minor stuff like UI, particles and lighting, but it never happens for several reasons. I haven't contacted him for years so can' t say that he made any progress with it.
So answer on your question depends on is he still planning to finish it or not. No one else around have Ogre knowledge to finish anyway.

Thanks, I read the thread, but there doesn't seem to be any follow up from the demo.
OK, I will not bother with it for now. I wonder how did learning of Ogre3D go for @messyhead ?
I spent some time with Ogre3D some 10 years ago, but could never get used to it's pipeline. It's used to be very hard to bend it to anything non-standard, and the its default approach of material files and custom made shader language was only making it worse. I'm not saying Ogre3D is bad engine in any way, but it's VERY different than anything else on the market.

I never got anywhere with Ogre learning, or DX for that matter.

I don't mind if it's converted to VS. It's really just thealx and I that are active devs just Now. Javelin was around, but haven't heard from him in a while, and I think he might have mentioned VS, or maybe someone else. Actually, GlynD recently got access.

Anyway, I think if converting to VS will make dev easier, then I'm OK with that. As long as the Ide remains free that we need to use.

There is a code diacussion thread linked below, and we also have a discord channel. I could create a code discussion group in it, if you want to use that?

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4195250/eech-source-code-discussion#Post4195250

The Falcon 4 BMS community have just upgraded their sim to dx11. If you wanted to move this forward and haven't otherwise made progress, you could perhaps ask over there for starting points.

Source code is now public. See 1st post.

Yikes

Yeah, that's all now been removed from the public source, unfortunately. The original Hind is still there.

If I remember correctly, it was 2008 when I tried to convert EECH to "not 1999 year mostly software" renderer first, and Ogre3D was the only free one at that time.

Currently there are some more (like UE4), but...

The "ogreee" calls I put into eech sources were not renderer-dependent at all. The ogreee renderer wrapper may use any renderer, including completely manual/direct one.

I see now that the "object/scenes/terrain" conversion part of ogreee wrapper (like ogre_geometry.cpp) should not be a part of wrapper itself, the conversion had to be done with a separate set of tools. Maybe it allowed to use different models at that time. That's the answer to "It's used to be very hard to bend it to anything non-standard".

And when conversion of object/scenes/terrain is not a problem, the main ogreee calls remain are "add/destroy scene (aka game object)" and "apply keyframe or manual animation to an object of a scene (aka part of game object)". And these calls are not renderer-dependent generally. But as far as I know UE4 supports skeleton animation only, and does not support keyframe or object one.

I tried to learn UE4 and found that it's much more complicated than Ogre3D and require a completely different approach. I could not find a tutorial of "how to convert your game to use UE4", the only ones I found was "how to create a moving skeleton figure move over 100x100 meters terrain with a ten monsters of the same kind". It's not what we have in EECH - hundred thousands of square kilometers and hundreds of units of tens sorts.

As I said previously (10 years ago?) switching to DX11 gives nothing. Vulkan won't help either. The renderer, the models, the textures, the shaders, etc. must be a completely separate module, created with ideas of 201x, not ones of 199x. Even It can be a separate 64-bit process. The game logic must communicate with it via a narrow interface, and ogreee.h is a good example of it.

Personally I tried to use Ogre3D 2.0, but it won't help much. The main problem is to have modern models. The ees/eeo models look good but they are not good for modern renderers (a whole model should have a single texture aka skin, for example, there are more).
Yet another problem is my ignorance. Sometimes I just don't understand "how it's done in 1999 engine", and it stops me from understanding "how to make it in newer renderer". That's with texturing of terrain, for example.
And of course I was and am too lazy to break a head with a brick wall to solve all of those problems alone.

I have zero experience in commercial game or 3D rendering programming. I cannot say "this it a good renderer, and we should use it that way" or "I can create the best renderer ever - both powerful and simple/easy to use". I don't understand what are requirements for a good model, I didn't create models for DCS or WT. I know nothing and I don't know where to get the knowledge.

EECH was fun when I played it. It was a next leap over Comanche 3. It was fun to destroy hundreds of american vessels in a row, it gave me fun and rest. But later, adding "realism", with rockets flying "any direction but not strait", with Vikhrs missing, it stopped being fun and rest. We had ED's Ka-50 with 300 pages manual for that. I'm not a fan of online, thus WT is not my option either. I'm glad I had EECH at its apex. Maybe my mind is too old and rusty. I just see no way and see noone sees one.

Let's assume we use UE4 in EECH. Is there a way to implement the following in UE4?

Terrain
Terrain consists of 2x2 km squares. Number of squares may be several hundreds.
Each square consists of 3D objects (it's not a height map).
Map uses about 30 textures. Some of them (sea ones) are animated. Each 3D object uses any of those, and a noise map additionally.
Each square have a bunch of trees. Trees are similar but their heights differ. (Instancing will help).
For each plain coordinate it's required to calculate a collision height.
It's good to have at least 10 kilometers viewing distance with at least 90 degrees FOV.

Scenes aka game objects
Each scene is a multinode tree of subobjects (from one to several dozens).
Each subobject is a set of of polygons or lines having some surface information (texture, luminosity texture, smoothing, transparency, etc.).
The subobjects are gathered in the tree via parent-children relationship using a transformation matrix, transparency and visibility flag.
Some subobjects are labeled. Different subobjects may have the same label, and the order of them are crucial. For example, gunship has 6 pylons, each pylon has its own set of weapons (outer ones - empty or stingers, others - empty, gun pod, rockets, missiles, etc)., each weapon has its elements (rocket or missile). The missile of some weapon (hellfires rack) of some pylon should not be interfered with rocket of a different weapon (rocket pod) or some other pylon.
Transformation matrix, transparency and visibility flag of a labeled object may be changed by game logic manually or by an associated key animation.
Some texture of polygons/lines may be modified by game logic (for example, each gunship has its own tail number).
Subobjects are LODed.
It's nice to have a hundred of different scenes visible (most of them - not with the best LOD) at once.

What are requirements to terrain and scenes to make them renderable via UE4?

The required interface logic for scenes can be seen in ogre\cube\cube.cpp set_scene() and frame().

Hello Firebird, if you want, can you take a look at Ignarik's posts below? He needs help adding ATAKA missile in KA52 weaponry, thanks.

Injections into a wooden leg?

Thanks a lot Firebird, happy holidays.

I don't know how it's being done currently. To hire someone to make UE4 wrapper dll with the functionality described above?

Maybe we can go from another side? Does anyone know UE4-compatible terrain 300x300 kilometers? Some site with it? Tens of "movable" UE4-compatible objects - helicopters, tanks, planes with rotating wheels, blades, with moving doors, etc? Again, some site with free _movable_ models?

Maybe someone knows how to edit a model from a modern UE4 game (again, not a body)?

I came across this thread while doing my own research for tracking down New World IP, LLC.

I think I found one variation in what's reported above. Empire Interactive went into receivership, which was managed by KPMG Restructuring. Empire's intellectual property rights were then sold to New World IP, LLC, which is based in the US. New World IP, LLC has licensed the IP, on an exclusive basis, to Zoo Publishing, Inc. Zoo then went down a complex business path before folding.

But the IP ownership path down Zoo Publishing is mostly not relevant. If the rights were licensed to Zoo, even if that entire business line folded, rights would still be held by New World IP.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1326652/000114420409024649/v148325_ex99-1.htm

I haven't managed to track New World IP past the aforementioned business in Delaware, except to say all the associated trademarks appear to have expired.