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#4420203 - 05/11/18 12:01 PM Mod to remove blue triangles! (and other improvements)  
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Hellshade Offline
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I know the Devs did a great job reducing the dreaded "blue triangles" that show up briefly when you are flying close to the ground, but I wonder if any of the brilliant modders out there would be able to find a way to finish them off for good?

I remember RAF Louvert saying they went away for him completely when he setup a pair of video cards (GTX 980s?) in SLI mode. Has anyone else using a pair of cards in an SLI configuration experienced the same benefit? This might offer a clue as to how to solve the issue,

Attached Files BlueTriangles.jpg
Last edited by Hellshade; 05/13/18 03:23 PM.

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#4420232 - 05/11/18 02:27 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Hi Hellshade. I too still get the triangles on My 980ti.
I don't know if there is a mod able solution.
I have to plead ignorance as to what the technical aspects of the problem are.
If there is the possibility of a molded solution I would be willing to take a Crack at it.

Best Regards


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#4420236 - 05/11/18 02:48 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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dutch Offline
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check also when on the ground, behind the plane it is like a blue shadow.

#4420241 - 05/11/18 03:15 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: dutch]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Originally Posted by dutch
check also when on the ground, behind the plane it is like a blue shadow.


Yep. It shows up there too, especially during take off and at low altitudes. I am sure someone smart who understands the workings of the game rendering engine knows why it happens. I just wonder if there is a way to stop it from happening completely. It's not a raw GPU horsepower based issue because everyone gets it with a single card, no matter how beefy their card is. Hopefully there's a tweak to the underlying game engine that can fix it.

If anyone else besides RAF Louvert is not getting the issue, please let us know. It might be a clue to resolving this little niggle.

Last edited by Hellshade; 05/11/18 03:16 PM.

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#4420247 - 05/11/18 03:55 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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dutch Offline
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Maybe that wizzerd could also fix the flashing clouds and the straight line moving in these clouds.

#4420272 - 05/11/18 06:45 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Dutch

The clouds issue I am pretty certain is unresolvable with the current game engine. The issue has been hammered to death looking for a solution.


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#4420281 - 05/11/18 07:29 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
Dutch

The clouds issue I am pretty certain is unresolvable with the current game engine. The issue has been hammered to death looking for a solution.


I agree. Blue triangles might be another dead horse to beat but I just figured I would ask and see if any of our brilliant modders could take a look at it. AnKor and others have done some amazing things that eventually got brought right into the sim itself.


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videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

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#4420304 - 05/11/18 10:16 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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I have those show up from time to time, only, mine are white. Not too annoying.

#4420305 - 05/11/18 10:26 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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HarryH Offline
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Hellshade, if you have an Nvidia card, have you played around with Nvidia Inspector? I was able to reduce blue triangles to a fairly minimal level by experimenting with various settings. They are not gone completely, but provided I don't look around to fast /often when at low altitudes I see very few of them. I see none at all when stationary on the ground. What I have managed to improve quite significantly is the cloud flickering and straight edged clouds. I believe the transparency settings in the Inspector are quite sensitive but useful for improving this issue. I think the general effect of the 2D cloud textures (I'm using Buckeye Bob's mod btw) is pretty amazing given the age of the game engine.

Cheers

H


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4420306 - 05/11/18 10:32 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Hellshade Offline
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I have a GTX 1080, Harry. I have not used Nvidia inspector in a long while. What are the settings you use for cloud flicker?


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#4420335 - 05/12/18 02:51 AM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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HarryH Offline
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I'll post my settings tomorrow.


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4420336 - 05/12/18 03:08 AM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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MajorMagee Offline
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Part of the issue with the blue triangles is that any part of the game environment that is out of your field of view is not created until it actually needs to be rendered. This was done back in the day to speed up the game and reduce the resources required to draw and hold on to all that 3D information that you would never see anyway. AnKor has done some things with how the data is sequenced to minimize the effect, but quick movements that look very far into spaces that didn't exist in the previous frame can still occasionally outpace his rendering before it needs to display the next frame.

As far as the clouds are concerned going from 2D to 3D volumetric would take care of the intersecting lines, but that is better done in DX11 or DX12.


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#4420350 - 05/12/18 06:32 AM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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I think Ankor is trying to get some of the DirectX10 or higher, aspects to Wotr. So this could mean better clouds and reduced triangle.

So yeah Robert, sometime we only need a bigger hammer. :-)

Last edited by dutch; 05/12/18 06:35 AM.
#4420385 - 05/12/18 03:36 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: dutch]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Originally Posted by dutch
I think Ankor is trying to get some of the DirectX10 or higher, aspects to Wotr. So this could mean better clouds and reduced triangle.

So yeah Robert, sometime we only need a bigger hammer. :-)



I had not heard that but it will be great if its true and he is able to make it happen. I hope that comes true.


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videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

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#4420395 - 05/12/18 04:24 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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HarryH Offline
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..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4420409 - 05/12/18 05:25 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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4L0M Offline
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Hi HarryH, I just looked at your settings, and as a suggestion I would turn off the Anisotropic filter and sample optimisation options. They basically overide the 8x Anisotropic filtering option above them and have worse image quality. As the optimisations apply the filter to the size of the textures its applied to, all of the textures in WoFF are tiny and the overall image quality will suffer as a result.

The optimisation option is really old, and isn't required when using any modern (last 5-10 years at least)graphics card. No performance benefit anymore, but definite image degradation compared to having it turned off.

I also have 16x Anisotropic filtering applied to every game I have owned for the last 20 years, the performance hit between 8x and 16x is basically nill.

Cheers!


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#4420413 - 05/12/18 06:09 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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AnKor Offline
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The reason those blue triangles appear is that CFS3 engine incorrectly assumes that those terrain tiles should be out of view and doesn't render them. It doesn't depend on GPU or your config, it is purely a bug in their algorithm which runs on CPU.
I don't have a direct solution for this, but I have something that may reduce the issue and improve the performance at the same time.
I've already mentioned this tweak on sim-outhouse some time ago but it had little effect on the "stock" CFS3, however I believe it may work better WOFF because WOFF terrain is more detailed.
You can try it if you feel adventurous smile

Here is a zip file with compositetexturebudgets.xml - the file goes into WOFF\OBDWW1 Over Flanders Fields\terrains folder, but don't forget to make a backup of the original file there.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvmtwF9vPtwVgYoiGbgXo8KXiEzxUQ

Additionally you should edit shaders30\Terrain.fx file and change 256 to 1024 in this line near the beginning of the file:
const static float fTextureSize = 256;
This is needed for terrain bump mapping to work properly with modified budgets.

I would have made a JSGME package but I don't remember how.

PS: And yes, I'm working on DX11 version of shaders smile

#4420426 - 05/12/18 07:45 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: AnKor]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Originally Posted by AnKor
PS: And yes, I'm working on DX11 version of shaders smile


I have no words other than..just knowing it's possibly in the pipeline to occur makes me happier than you can possibly know. Thank you for all that you do. /s


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
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#4420427 - 05/12/18 07:45 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Quote
PS: And yes, I'm working on DX11 version of shaders


That´s some good news!!!

#4420432 - 05/12/18 09:14 PM Re: Mod to remove blue triangles? [Re: AnKor]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Originally Posted by AnKor
And yes, I'm working on DX11 version of shaders smile

Wow! Is that even possible? AnKor, you are a God! One of those less known ones, but still a God nonetheless. I am drooling at the thought of what could be possible. And because I don’t know what’s possible, I imagine a lot. Can you tell us what DX11 would mean for WOFF? No more blue triangles? Rain and oil streaking on the windshield a la ROF? Grass? French maidens waving as we fly by? The possibilities are endless! And yes, thank you for your efforts. salute


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