Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#4417832 - 04/25/18 11:21 PM Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific?  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454 Offline
Member
VMIalpha454  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
I have been having a great time playing a Luftwaffe fighter career in the new career mode while in vr. I had for all intents and purposes shelved all my flight sims until these two developments reinvigorated the experience for me. So I want to first start by giving Jason and the Team the kudos they deserve. Outstanding work!

Now on to the topic of this thread. As I was flying back to my airfield after a rough mission, the lone survivor of my flight, I was looking out at the scenery below and thought, “Hey, how awesome would it be if that airfield down there was a tiny island in the middle of a massive blue ocean?” Then I found myself imagining the wing I was looking out at were the wing of a Dauntless. As I circled on approach to my airfield I was pretending I was a Wildcat landing at Henderson field on Guadalcanal.

Obviously, the PTO is where my primary interest lies. I’ve never had an interest in the Eastern Front, although Graviteam Tactics and now BoS have made me appreciate it more in recent years. I only bought BoS to support Jason’s efforts (I was huge into RoF in its heyday). Now I am considering BoM and Kuban for the same reasons, as funds allow. I am super excited for Flying Circus and Bodenplatte.

So, I know they said no Pacific at this time, but what are the difficulties preventing it? Do you guys think we will ever see IL2 make the move to the Pacific? Also, do you want it to? I look forward to your responses!


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4417836 - 04/25/18 11:38 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,310
rollnloop. Online content
Senior Member
rollnloop.  Online Content
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,310
France
Ah well I can say I'm longing for a pacific experience, but with 3 games scheduled before it I'm not so confident we'll have it ever, or that I'll still play this serie when it gets published frown

More, I'm pretty concerned that freezing WW2 aircraft sim development for at least two years (circus and tanks) might kill the momentum.

#4417852 - 04/26/18 01:39 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master Offline
meh
Master  Offline
meh
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
They are not freezing ww2 for 2 years. The tanks is being done along side bodenplatenbudingwhocares. And the wwi stuff is being farmed out to a 3rd party since they are just converting the 3d models and flight models.

#4417895 - 04/26/18 09:49 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
Trooper117 Offline
Hotshot
Trooper117  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
UK
Get on to the BoS forums and read Jasons post as to why it can't be done at this time.
It's not all doom and gloom on the Pacific, it will come, but unlike the previous attempt with the old game (Pacific Fighters) Jason wants to do it right, but it just isn't feasible at this time.
He stated quite clearly it has always been a dream of his to do the Pacific, but they just don't have the technical information in enough detail on the Japanese side to have done it justice and within the original time frame.

#4417896 - 04/26/18 09:58 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 676
nibbio Offline
Member
nibbio  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 676
Italy
I believe Pacific will come, and maybe even sooner than expected, as long as Jason is managing the project and money keeps rolling in.

#4417965 - 04/26/18 05:28 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: nibbio]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,556
wheelsup_cavu Offline
Lifer
wheelsup_cavu  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,556
Corona, California
Originally Posted by nibbio
I believe Pacific will come, and maybe even sooner than expected, as long as Jason is managing the project and money keeps rolling in.

Those are definitely the 64 dollar questions. Is Jason going to be project manager for the long term and will we continue to support his decisions by buying the product.
I know if he gets canned my support ends the day I find it out.


Wheels


Cheers wave
Wheelsup_cavu

Mission4Today (Campaigns, Missions, and Skins for IL-2)
Planes of Fame Air Museum | March Field Air Museum | Palm Springs Air Museum
#4418009 - 04/26/18 09:52 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,562
Airdrop01 Offline
Chief Pheasant Controller
Airdrop01  Offline
Chief Pheasant Controller
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,562
Kansas, USA
Well, I bought everything since BOS once they put in the career mode and took out the "level" system.

It's not ideal (dynamic campaign) but it's exponentially better, so I figured I'd throw them the support. If Jason gets canned, then the Russians can go to "the smoking section," as my kids used to say decades ago when they were little...


"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11

Indeed we call blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of the perseverance of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, because “the Lord is compassionate and merciful. James 5:11
#4418022 - 04/27/18 12:08 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master Offline
meh
Master  Offline
meh
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
At this point it comes down to will they get a pacific game before DCS gets a pacific game.

#4418042 - 04/27/18 03:01 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,955
Sokol1 Offline
Senior Member
Sokol1  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,955
Internet
Quote
... they get a pacific game before DCS gets a pacific game.


So they have plenty of time, DCS not even finished "landing" in Normandy... biggrin

#4418059 - 04/27/18 08:00 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454 Offline
Member
VMIalpha454  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
Originally Posted by Trooper117
Get on to the BoS forums and read Jasons post as to why it can't be done at this time.
It's not all doom and gloom on the Pacific, it will come, but unlike the previous attempt with the old game (Pacific Fighters) Jason wants to do it right, but it just isn't feasible at this time.
He stated quite clearly it has always been a dream of his to do the Pacific, but they just don't have the technical information in enough detail on the Japanese side to have done it justice and within the original time frame.


I don't frequent their site since it is blocked by my employer...this site, however wave

I took your advice and surfed on over using my handy dandy mobile device. I indeed found a whole section devoted to the Pacific and Jason's plans for that endeavor. How exciting! It looks like they are intending to do the Battle of Midway and are enlisting folks to help with research and documentation for the team since the Pacific isn't their forte.

I haven't finished reading through the thread completely but it has become quickly apparent to me how difficult it must be to satisfy flight simmers...there are a ton of different opinions about the direction 1C should take and where their focus should lie. I must admit that many of them left me scratching my head. I guess the common thread through it all was that each simmer wants 1C to make a game that he wants, and it seemed often to be at the expense of what others want, almost in a competetive way. Kind of an unpleasant read.

Silly me. I thought a game about the Battle of Midway should try to convincingly simulate that battle. Jason seems to be of that mind as well. The list of ships he posted and his emphasis on their development shows me that his focus is right where it should be for such a project. Many of the posters were trying instead to lobby for Guadalcanal, or fantasy maps, or Avengers instead of Devastators, or just focus on the airplanes and have generic ships, or a whole bunch of other crazy (to me) suggestions. It was distracting and unconstructive.

All I know is that the possibility of the Pacific on the horizon is super exciting to me...I am going to support them with my $$ as I can, and with whatever help I can provide with the research. salute


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4418112 - 04/27/18 02:50 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,955
Sokol1 Offline
Senior Member
Sokol1  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,955
Internet
Quote
I guess the common thread through it all was that each simmer wants 1C to make a game that he wants, and it seemed often to be at the expense of what others want, almost in a competetive way. Kind of an unpleasant read... or fantasy maps... or just focus on the airplanes and have generic ships, or a whole bunch of other crazy (to me) suggestions. It was distracting and unconstructive.


Not to mention those who lobby for the next "Battle of..." always include the usual... BF109&190. biggrin


#4418317 - 04/29/18 03:48 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
F4UDash4 Online cool
Veteran
F4UDash4  Online Cool
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
SC
I'll add my vote for the Pacific Theater of Operations. I know there is talk of "Battle of Midway" down the road and if that happens I will be happy, but I would be much more happy if the new PTO title were "Battle of Guadalcanal". There is so much more that could be done in that arena than at Midway.

Last edited by F4UDash4; 04/30/18 11:10 AM.

"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4418391 - 04/30/18 12:46 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 624
FlyingMonkey Offline
Member
FlyingMonkey  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 624
Down under in Adelaide
The PTO is what I want the most too. I'm pretty happy to support everything these guys have planned in the meantime - Bodenplatte has got the Tempest which I have always wanted to fly after reading Le Grand Cirque, Flying Circus is what I wanted most in VR (or equally with the PTO), and the tank stuff might be interesting if it includes VR too.

#4418577 - 05/01/18 11:16 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: FlyingMonkey]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454 Offline
Member
VMIalpha454  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey
the tank stuff might be interesting if it includes VR too.


I have to say, I don’t understand the decision to make a tank game part of a flight sim franchise... And it is odd to me that you have people on their forum encouraging the developers to ignore ship development because “It’s a flight sim, after all.” Meanwhile there’s this absolutely random project going on. Maybe I missed something.


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4418613 - 05/01/18 02:41 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
Trooper117 Offline
Hotshot
Trooper117  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
UK
My thoughts exactly... however, since they did the tank experiment, lots of people apparently enjoyed it and clamoured for more.
I can only surmise that the powers that be have worked out that it will generate income.
For me though, I really wish they had stayed a purely combat flight sim, and I hope that the tank venture doesn't hold back progress on the flight sim side.

Have to say though, that since Jason took over the game has gone from strength to strength, and I'm very pleased with the progress that has been made.

#4418631 - 05/01/18 05:06 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,310
rollnloop. Online content
Senior Member
rollnloop.  Online Content
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,310
France
I'd enjoy a "battle of Rabaul" even more than Guadalcanal, and much more than Okinawa or Iwo Jima. Corsair FTW !

Last edited by rollnloop.; 05/01/18 05:07 PM.
#4418680 - 05/01/18 09:52 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master Offline
meh
Master  Offline
meh
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Originally Posted by VMIalpha454
Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey
the tank stuff might be interesting if it includes VR too.


I have to say, I don’t understand the decision to make a tank game part of a flight sim franchise... And it is odd to me that you have people on their forum encouraging the developers to ignore ship development because “It’s a flight sim, after all.” Meanwhile there’s this absolutely random project going on. Maybe I missed something.


Im praying to all the gods that their tank stuff turns into player drivable ships.

The tanks/vehicles make a lot of sense to me for a flight sim. It's also why almost every other major online flight sim has included them. Warbirds, Aces High, WWIIOnline, War Thunder, DCS. Hell even going as far back as Air Warrior you had online ground vehicles. 1942 pacific air war had player driver ships.

It makes sense to put support vehicles into flight simulators and then put tanks to kill the support vehicles.

The tanks addition is by far my most looked forward to aspect of any upcoming flight simulator. I also hope they include some in the WWI addon. Having some MG or Flak trucks to drive around at a friendly airfield online would go a long way to make it more fun (and prevent the point to point jabbo runs)

Player run ships though would be #%&*$# amazing. Nothing to the level of Silent Hunter / Destroyer command but at least to the level of Aces High where you could plot waypoints and take control of the guns. It would also go a very long way to making a pacific game more fun (even if they just let you control the guns)

#4418743 - 05/02/18 02:49 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: rollnloop.]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
F4UDash4 Online cool
Veteran
F4UDash4  Online Cool
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
SC
Originally Posted by rollnloop.
I'd enjoy a "battle of Rabaul" even more than Guadalcanal, and much more than Okinawa or Iwo Jima. Corsair FTW !


You gotta have Henderson Field if you're going to go after Rabaul.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4418758 - 05/02/18 07:26 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,310
rollnloop. Online content
Senior Member
rollnloop.  Online Content
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,310
France
No, we don't.
For the late battle, many fighters were based much closer to Rabaul than Henderson.
Ofc Guadalcanal to rabaul in one map would be great, but if it's too wide for the game I'd favor Rabaul and the northern part of the slot. Online, against competent IJN pilots, the late 43/early44 game is much more balanced IMO.

#4418798 - 05/02/18 02:32 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454 Offline
Member
VMIalpha454  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
There seems to be so much potential in the theater. I really hope they’re able to make it a reality. I agree and disagree with most on where the focus should lie, because I would have a blast playing any part of the Pacific war. Midway sounds great to me, so does Guadalcanal. The later fight rollnloop wants sounds great too. So do the Marianas and Okinawa, and escorting B-29s over the home islands. I get it that the balancing gets lopsided toward the end but that is any theater and IMO shouldnt stop them from making it.

I’m probably alone in this but I really hope they model floatplanes, like RoF. I think it’d be an interesting experience to undertake a reconnaissance career in a PBY or Kingfisher.


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4418817 - 05/02/18 04:04 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
We are resurrecting the PTO fantasy that imploded last Fall when the developers were finally forced to pull the “pipe dream” plug. It is understandable that a developer might tease an audience into believing they are working on a project that the developer knows will not be forthcoming. To some observers it always seemed inconceivable that the developers would sacrifice their LW-centric clientele for a PTO scenario. The reasons that a PTO offering would be unlikely were thoroughly elaborated upon in a previous thread. None of those obstacles are going to be tackled by this developer. German hardware is integral to the product line. That fact makes it impossible to move to other theaters. So, sorry, no PTO or Mig Alley for you.

#4418849 - 05/02/18 06:30 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: rollnloop.]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
F4UDash4 Online cool
Veteran
F4UDash4  Online Cool
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
SC
Originally Posted by rollnloop.
No, we don't.
For the late battle, many fighters were based much closer to Rabaul than Henderson.
Ofc Guadalcanal to rabaul in one map would be great, but if it's too wide for the game I'd favor Rabaul and the northern part of the slot. Online, against competent IJN pilots, the late 43/early44 game is much more balanced IMO.



By early 1944 there was no fighter opposition left at Rabaul. Read Blackburns account commanding VF-17.

I think starting at the beginning of the air campaign starting in August of 1942 would be much more interesting.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4418890 - 05/02/18 11:42 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,310
rollnloop. Online content
Senior Member
rollnloop.  Online Content
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,310
France
Please tell me what shot down Boyington on january 3rd, 44, then ?

Fighters were moved from Rabaul in mid february, I think this qualifies late 43/early 44 as valid for a rabaul campaign.

Last edited by rollnloop.; 05/02/18 11:46 PM.
#4418919 - 05/03/18 03:46 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
F4UDash4 Online cool
Veteran
F4UDash4  Online Cool
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
SC
Jeeezzzzzz.....


Mid Feb 1944 IS "early 1944", just as I stated.

So if you want a scenario that only lasts for a couple of months when there are fewer and fewer Japanese aircraft and more and more allied aircraft that's fine and late 43 / early 44 is just exactly the time period for you.

As for me, I'd rather start off when the odds were stacked against the allies.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4418920 - 05/03/18 04:00 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 624
FlyingMonkey Offline
Member
FlyingMonkey  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 624
Down under in Adelaide
Regarding the tank thing, yeah I'm like most here - while I said I might be interested in trying it if it's got VR, that's really not what I would have chosen if I had a way to influence their roadmap, that's for sure. PTO and WW1 aircraft roster (especially if we get to the early birds again, EIII and Nieup 11/17 please!) is what I'm really waiting for.

#4418921 - 05/03/18 04:30 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master Offline
meh
Master  Offline
meh
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Also keep in mind that the 3d modelers, physics guys, flight model guys, graphics guys, 3d modelers are all separate guys (generally) so sticking to only one thing might mean that some people move on from the project. if the 3d modelers finish up the plans and the texture guys move in then the 3d modelers can pick up tanks or ships or etc. Its not like adding tanks pushes back as much as you think it does.

This is kind of the same situation that starcitizen is in. People hate that they keep releasing new ships to buy. But the concept guys dont have anything to do with the other parts of the game so them doing concept stuff doesnt push the game back. All the teams function independently and each need a full schedule of work else they will have to fire people and rehire later.

Last edited by Master; 05/03/18 04:31 AM.
#4419983 - 05/10/18 05:06 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Frogyy2]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
Nimits Offline
Hotshot
Nimits  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
United States of America
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
We are resurrecting the PTO fantasy that imploded last Fall when the developers were finally forced to pull the “pipe dream” plug. It is understandable that a developer might tease an audience into believing they are working on a project that the developer knows will not be forthcoming. To some observers it always seemed inconceivable that the developers would sacrifice their LW-centric clientele for a PTO scenario. The reasons that a PTO offering would be unlikely were thoroughly elaborated upon in a previous thread. None of those obstacles are going to be tackled by this developer. German hardware is integral to the product line. That fact makes it impossible to move to other theaters. So, sorry, no PTO or Mig Alley for you.


Russians have done PTO sims before (even if not very well). I think it is likely 1C will try again.

#4420085 - 05/10/18 06:11 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Nimits]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
We are resurrecting the PTO fantasy that imploded last Fall when the developers were finally forced to pull the “pipe dream” plug. It is understandable that a developer might tease an audience into believing they are working on a project that the developer knows will not be forthcoming. To some observers it always seemed inconceivable that the developers would sacrifice their LW-centric clientele for a PTO scenario. The reasons that a PTO offering would be unlikely were thoroughly elaborated upon in a previous thread. None of those obstacles are going to be tackled by this developer. German hardware is integral to the product line. That fact makes it impossible to move to other theaters. So, sorry, no PTO or Mig Alley for you.


Russians have done PTO sims before (even if not very well). I think it is likely 1C will try again.


Would be helpful if you could provide a complete list of all those previous PTO “sims” you are referencing.

#4420110 - 05/10/18 07:30 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Frogyy2]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 473
Taxman Offline
Member
Taxman  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 473
Portland, OR USA
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
We are resurrecting the PTO fantasy that imploded last Fall when the developers were finally forced to pull the “pipe dream” plug. It is understandable that a developer might tease an audience into believing they are working on a project that the developer knows will not be forthcoming. To some observers it always seemed inconceivable that the developers would sacrifice their LW-centric clientele for a PTO scenario. The reasons that a PTO offering would be unlikely were thoroughly elaborated upon in a previous thread. None of those obstacles are going to be tackled by this developer. German hardware is integral to the product line. That fact makes it impossible to move to other theaters. So, sorry, no PTO or Mig Alley for you.


Russians have done PTO sims before (even if not very well). I think it is likely 1C will try again.


Would be helpful if you could provide a complete list of all those previous PTO “sims” you are referencing.


One would be IL-2 Pacific Fighters.


Taxes are my part time profession, flying is my passion.
#4420113 - 05/10/18 07:45 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by Taxman
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
We are resurrecting the PTO fantasy that imploded last Fall when the developers were finally forced to pull the “pipe dream” plug. It is understandable that a developer might tease an audience into believing they are working on a project that the developer knows will not be forthcoming. To some observers it always seemed inconceivable that the developers would sacrifice their LW-centric clientele for a PTO scenario. The reasons that a PTO offering would be unlikely were thoroughly elaborated upon in a previous thread. None of those obstacles are going to be tackled by this developer. German hardware is integral to the product line. That fact makes it impossible to move to other theaters. So, sorry, no PTO or Mig Alley for you.


Russians have done PTO sims before (even if not very well). I think it is likely 1C will try again.


Would be helpful if you could provide a complete list of all those previous PTO “sims” you are referencing.


One would be IL-2 Pacific Fighters.


Please continue.

#4420159 - 05/11/18 12:20 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454 Offline
Member
VMIalpha454  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
I just picked up BoM Premium edition today to support 1C. I told myself I wouldn't do this again after the BoS initial SNAFU, lol. Oh well, I want to see the Pacific and I am really enjoying my Bf-109 career over Stalingrad right now so they deserve it wink


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4421497 - 05/19/18 01:07 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Frogyy2]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
Nimits Offline
Hotshot
Nimits  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
United States of America
1C/Madd
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
Originally Posted by Taxman
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
We are resurrecting the PTO fantasy that imploded last Fall when the developers were finally forced to pull the “pipe dream” plug. It is understandable that a developer might tease an audience into believing they are working on a project that the developer knows will not be forthcoming. To some observers it always seemed inconceivable that the developers would sacrifice their LW-centric clientele for a PTO scenario. The reasons that a PTO offering would be unlikely were thoroughly elaborated upon in a previous thread. None of those obstacles are going to be tackled by this developer. German hardware is integral to the product line. That fact makes it impossible to move to other theaters. So, sorry, no PTO or Mig Alley for you.


Russians have done PTO sims before (even if not very well). I think it is likely 1C will try again.


Would be helpful if you could provide a complete list of all those previous PTO “sims” you are referencing.


One would be IL-2 Pacific Fighters.


Please continue.



Also Pacific Storm (which had some light sim air/naval sim elements). Anyway, your are just being difficult. Sure, I do not know the future, but there is precedent for 1C doing a Pacific sim if they think it could sell.

#4421511 - 05/19/18 03:23 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Nimits]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Pacific Storm? Is that even considered a flight sim? There is an element of conflation here. The PTO flight sim was from Oleg’s shop. The strategy game from another developer under the 1C banner. The current Il2 series is from the RoF developer. Both RoF and Il2 BoX obviously include German AC. I believe RoF was later expanded to include Russian AC also. The question that those folks fantasizing a PTO scenario from the Il2 BoX series never address is how it makes business sense for the developer to abandon extensively researched European equipment and terrain for the PTO where much greater research effort would be required. The seemingly small group agitating for a PTO adventure cannot even agree on whether they would accept island based vs carrier based gameplay if both elements would be prohibitive to include in a first offering. I have no doubt that the developer long ago took all such considerations into account if was ever really serious about a PTO offering.

#4421556 - 05/19/18 12:55 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
Trooper117 Offline
Hotshot
Trooper117  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
UK
It was all set to go to the pacific... Jason had posted it was going to happen, we had the titles name and where the next expansion for it was going to be set...
Unfortunately, as it transpired, they simply could not get hold of the extensive information required (on the Japanese side) within the time frame. it's as simple as that.
Read his post on the reasons why in the BoS forums... It has always been one of his goals to visit the Pacific and do it properly, unlike Pacific Fighters...

#4421605 - 05/19/18 04:22 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by Trooper117
It was all set to go to the pacific... Jason had posted it was going to happen, we had the titles name and where the next expansion for it was going to be set...
Unfortunately, as it transpired, they simply could not get hold of the extensive information required (on the Japanese side) within the time frame. it's as simple as that.
Read his post on the reasons why in the BoS forums... It has always been one of his goals to visit the Pacific and do it properly, unlike Pacific Fighters...


The above response is deflection at best. The question I posed is why would it have made business sense for the developer to spend available cash to invent a PTO offering when it would be far more cost effective to expand the series to include more German & Russian hardware. By adding US and British AC they could expand their base rather than risk alienating the LW and Russian-oriented base they had already established. Also, to the best of my recollection, there was never a firm commitment to a PTO as the next offering after BoK. If anyone can document such a commitment please re-post to this thread so we can discuss. O/W please understand that this thread could be construed simply as solicitation for “happy talk” from the developer regarding a PTO sim.

#4421609 - 05/19/18 05:10 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Frogyy2]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 152
Cloyd Offline
Member
Cloyd  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 152
Cape Cod
*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post


Don't do it Cloyd, just don't do it! You know that it's just going to piss you off if you hit that "Toggle the display of this post".

This is all one needs to know about Frogyy2's posting in this topic:
"To some observers it always seemed inconceivable that the developers would sacrifice their LW-centric clientele for a PTO scenario."

Clearly what any successful flightsim needs is more 109s and more places to fly them. You Americans, Japanese, Australians, New Zealanders, Chinese, etc. are just not a big enough market to make for a successful flightsim.

neaner

Last edited by Cloyd; 05/19/18 07:16 PM.
#4421660 - 05/19/18 10:27 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454 Offline
Member
VMIalpha454  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
Well, I suppose anyone can speculate about the developer's motives but based on what I read over on IL2's forum it seems as if they really do want to develop a Pacific title.

You know, one thing that doesn't resonate with me is when simmers complain about the Pacific because of their own personal lack of interest in the theater. Meanwhile, i'm here having a blast on the Eastern front, which I had virtually zero preexisting interest in. Each faction, region, and campaign presents its own unique challenges. A good flight sim would be fun in just about any historical scenario they could choose. It's my opinion, of course, but even though I am not a betting man I would wager it to be a true statement. I get the desire to see your particular interest play out on the computer screen. I am in the same boat! But I am excited about Bodenplatte and Flying Circus as well. They may not be where my main interest lies, but I can already tell they're going to be the source of many hours of fun. So I hope they keep up the good work, and I will hold on to hope that one day in the not-so-distant future I will be flying an SBD off the Yorktown. woot


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4421661 - 05/19/18 10:31 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Cloyd]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
F4UDash4 Online cool
Veteran
F4UDash4  Online Cool
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
SC
Originally Posted by Cloyd
*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post


Don't do it Cloyd, just don't do it! You know that it's just going to piss you off if you hit that "Toggle the display of this post".

This is all one needs to know about Frogyy2's posting in this topic:
"To some observers it always seemed inconceivable that the developers would sacrifice their LW-centric clientele for a PTO scenario."

Clearly what any successful flightsim needs is more 109s and more places to fly them. You Americans, Japanese, Australians, New Zealanders, Chinese, etc. are just not a big enough market to make for a successful flightsim.

neaner



+1


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4421671 - 05/20/18 12:45 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
Hell, I want to fly Pacific missions so badly that I wish they'd just do some Japanese planes so we can use them on the Kuban map. It looks enough like New Guinea to make that fun.
But I know people want carriers. And I really do think it's going to happen. But I don't see it happening tomorrow. In the meantime, what they've done is fun. And getting even better. Bodenplatte looks good and I'm looking forward to it.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4421721 - 05/20/18 01:03 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Four responses to my most recent post...all begging the questions I posed. Products by this developer, both announced and proposed, all center around multiple air forces battling German war machinery. This is formulaic. Some may not like the assessments I’ve given as to reasons they are unlikely to ever see a PTO from this developer. That is ok. OTOH they either tacitly or explicitly acknowledge that they will buy whatever the developer chooses to offer which would seem to suggest that there is absolutely no pressure on the developer to ever undertake any PTO scenario.

#4421726 - 05/20/18 03:03 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
Well, you certainly can't be suggesting that everyone stops buying their products to force them into doing a PTO sim. That would be creating something of a Catch-22 situation, wouldn't it? We say, we we aren't buying anything until they fullfill their promise of making a Pacific based game. So now they have no money coming in to do it.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4421739 - 05/20/18 04:58 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Pooch]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by Pooch
Well, you certainly can't be suggesting that everyone stops buying their products to force them into doing a PTO sim. That would be creating something of a Catch-22 situation, wouldn't it? We say, we we aren't buying anything until they fullfill their promise of making a Pacific based game. So now they have no money coming in to do it.


There is no point in trying to twist my words. The substance of my statements is that the developer is in the entertainment industry. The developer has found a moderately successful formula in which German war machinery is the central component. The developer’s challenge is to maintain and expand it’s customer base. To that end the developer is increasing the number of air forces that can compete against German equipment. The USAAF and RAF are being formally introduced as opponents. I should also include mention of VR. By successfully implementing vr the customer base has expanded even without new battle theaters. I bought into BoX only after deciding to purchase a Rift. I have essentially ceased to fly sims that don’t have a vr implementation. That component of the customer base will only continue to grow. The developer’s future success is not tied to implementation of a PTO offering. There is no existing leverage for anyone to politic for a PTO addition to the series. Can the developer sell more bf 109 and FW190 variants? You betcha. Can it sell as many Japanese bombers and tanks?

#4421743 - 05/20/18 05:18 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
..."they will buy whatever the developer chooses to offer which would seem to suggest that there is absolutely no pressure on the developer to ever undertake any PTO scenario."

I wasn't trying to twist your words at all. Actually, I really thought that's what you were trying to say.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4421749 - 05/20/18 05:46 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Pooch]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Apology accepted. TY!

#4421772 - 05/20/18 07:49 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master Offline
meh
Master  Offline
meh
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
He didnt apologize. (as any kid will tell you, an explanation of what you said is not the same as saying sorry for what I said)

Also you did basically say exactly what he said you said. You even give your own purchase history as an example of how to do it. You are basically telling people not to buy it unless they give in to our demands, ours being PTO and yours being VR.

Historically the most recent PTO sims in series have sold the most copies. MS CFS 2 sold more copies than the original. Il-2 Pacific Fighters sold more than the original il-2.

You also allude to a pattern of them only buildings games vs the german war machine but the ONLY way they could build a flight sim with enough plane variety and competitiveness without germans would be to make a PTO game. The only real pattern the IL-2 BoX series follows is the inclusion of the Russians as the protagonists and that is leaving with BP. (and it already isnt a good pattern because of the lend lease planes.)

Your whole argument is bunk and kind of ridiculous.

VR also has very little to do with anything. If you look at user statistics VR is less than 1% of 1% of the user base. The user base is so small that most VR game companies only make a profit by taking VR grants when making their games because sales are so small. That obviously wont always be the case as VR improves and becomes more mainstream but right now VR means jack.

The point is, they build flight sims because they has a passion to do them and they decide what they want to do vs what they think they can do vs what they think will sell. I can pretty much guarantee they didnt look at the PTO and say, this will never sell. Lets do something else. If anything they might have said, "we cant afford to research and make this and gamble that we will sell enough fast enough to survive."

Tanks though. The first playable tanks were implemented as a side project on someone's spare time. it worked, it was popular and it takes minimal effort to expand. It also incorporates directly into their current theaters. The only downside is the time to do internal cabins and a new terrain and it has the bonus of bringing in players who would otherwise not buy their product. If schedule properly it might not even take assets/development away from other projects (BP, RoF)

Last edited by Master; 05/20/18 07:59 PM.
#4421775 - 05/20/18 08:04 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Master]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
I do not know what group you are authorized to speak for. In any case you are in no position to make demands of anyone. TY!

#4421790 - 05/20/18 10:21 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Frogyy2]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454 Offline
Member
VMIalpha454  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
First off, Frogyy2, thanks for your input on this topic. Just like anyone else here, your opinion is your right and I think it added to the conversation.

I must say however that I don't understand the tone of your responses. What you have written comes across as hostile and argumentative. There's no sense in that, given the topic we are discussing. Let's try to keep it civil.

Originally Posted by Frogyy2
I do not know what group you are authorized to speak for. In any case you are in no position to make demands of anyone. TY!


I didn't see anyone claim to speak for the developer. You seem to be doing this very thing, though...stating as a certainty the developer's business model and motivations without any authorization I can discern. Once again, that kind of argumentative stuff just turns the discussion toxic. I'd like to avoid that.


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4421803 - 05/20/18 11:13 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
Frogyy2 Offline
Member
Frogyy2  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 118
I speak for myself. My input addresses the title of this thread very directly. You are unable to challenge my reasoning so you raise objection to my “tone” as your ruse. Why the need to “go low”?

#4421967 - 05/21/18 06:12 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,619
CyBerkut Online content
Administrator
CyBerkut  Online Content
Administrator
Hotshot

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,619
Florida
OK... Locking this thread temporarily until I can examine it more closely later.


EDIT: OK, I have elected to trim the tail end off of this thread in an attempt to get it back on track. Let's focus on the merits, or lack thereof, of the arguments for or against the developer making a Pacific Theater offering.


Unlocking the remaining thread now.

Last edited by CyBerkut; 05/22/18 12:30 AM. Reason: Moderation
#4422036 - 05/22/18 12:40 AM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Frogyy2]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,619
CyBerkut Online content
Administrator
CyBerkut  Online Content
Administrator
Hotshot

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,619
Florida
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
I speak for myself. My input addresses the title of this thread very directly. You are unable to challenge my reasoning so you raise objection to my “tone” as your ruse. Why the need to “go low”?


Up to that point in the thread, I don't see where anybody 'went low'. Nobody had attacked you by that point, but rather had addressed your position. Additionally, I don't see where anyone had made demands up to the point where you posted:

Originally Posted by Frogyy2
In any case you are in no position to make demands of anyone. TY!


You might wish to refrain from declaring your argument as victorious, and leave that to the readers to decide for themselves. People can find that annoying, and it can lead discussions down the drain.

#4425659 - 06/11/18 07:57 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 126
Hooves Offline
Member
Hooves  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 126
Well, fear not. The title has breath taking VR support (visuals only for now) and it runs like a champ. Coming back from the Flight sim expo held in Vegas I can tell you the VR setups were the most popular. They had a line 4-5 deep to get in it basically the entire show. We not only showcased IL2 to the civi flight sim crowd but opened their eyes to how cool VR can be!

#4425661 - 06/11/18 08:06 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: Hooves]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,234
LukeFF Offline
Veteran
LukeFF  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,234
Redlands, California
Originally Posted by Hooves
Well, fear not. The title has breath taking VR support (visuals only for now) and it runs like a champ. Coming back from the Flight sim expo held in Vegas I can tell you the VR setups were the most popular. They had a line 4-5 deep to get in it basically the entire show. We not only showcased IL2 to the civi flight sim crowd but opened their eyes to how cool VR can be!


^ What he said. smile The show was a blast, and it was fun getting to showcase the game with all of its key features.

I just wish SimHQ still gave a crap about events like this. I see the main news page was last updated in 2017.

#4425767 - 06/12/18 03:04 PM Re: Will this sim ever make it to the Pacific? [Re: LukeFF]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454 Offline
Member
VMIalpha454  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
Originally Posted by LukeFF
Originally Posted by Hooves
Well, fear not. The title has breath taking VR support (visuals only for now) and it runs like a champ. Coming back from the Flight sim expo held in Vegas I can tell you the VR setups were the most popular. They had a line 4-5 deep to get in it basically the entire show. We not only showcased IL2 to the civi flight sim crowd but opened their eyes to how cool VR can be!


^ What he said. smile The show was a blast, and it was fun getting to showcase the game with all of its key features.

I just wish SimHQ still gave a crap about events like this. I see the main news page was last updated in 2017.


The members here still care. I wonder if you wrote up an article whether the site would post it on the news page? I read Jason’s post over on the IL2 forums, and I saw where you guys stepped up and helped him out a ton with the show. I, for one, would be interested in your insights!


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  CyBerkut, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0