Hey gents!

I bought IL-2 BOS in 2014 and sprung for the premium edition. I gave it a couple of hours go but never really dived into it much, but my main reason for getting it was because I was practicing A-A dogfights in BMS at the time and was really having fun doing turning fights and guns attacks vs. AI and I thought doing that in WWII birds would help me improve my skill, wrap my head around energy and angles better, and overally get a better appreciation of this aspect of aerial combat. Maybe because it felt like I didn't know what I'm doing, maybe because of the way the sim worked, maybe because I didn't really feel connected with the aircraft, but I didn't play for very long. I must admit that while I recognize some of the aircraft in the sim, I'm not really much of a WWII buff.

I'm hoping to get back and try WWII birds again, but I've noticed most excitement is for the newer Bo[?] modules and not much for BoS. Should I still spend time on BoS? Or is there a better version I should buy?

Is the excitement for Bodenplatte more for the arrival of the P-51/P-47/Spitfire rather than an overall change in simulation quality?

Thanks!

Ice - I only own BoS, but all the titles run under the same engine from the same exe. So I think it's more about picking which aircraft or map you're more interested in. I think you can fire up BoS and get an overall feel for how you like WWII combat and it's implementation in BoX. If you like it, then you can expand into the other titles to get planes and maps to your preference. I'm waiting for Bodenplatte or my next purchase, but that's just because I want the US planes.

Like Malibu43 say if your BoS installation is updated you have all Bo'X contend installed in your HDD - but can access only the modules for what have key, so nothing exclusive in new versions other than planes, maps, grounds units.

In MP can access maps that don't own, e.g. Kuban.

All you need about fly "WW2":

https://www.youtube.com/user/RequiemBoS

Thanks guys!!

I'm trying to access the manual for this sim but it's saying I don't have access to it even though I'm registered and signed in on the forums? Odd how the manual isn't included in the install in the first place, or at least a link to it on the launcher. Had a few flights, just the takeoff-landing mission and had to re-map the controls. Anyone with a TM WH setup that can help me get set up? I've only re-mapped the trim commands and un-bound the headlook from the trim hat.

Link for IL-2 BoS manual on forum was broken at some time, including in moderator signature... Anyway is shared there:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Ks7AXjpmbEZ0dhZnBhR3lvSDQ/view

Are the good guides of Chuck_Owl but don't find the links.

A link to Chuck's guide, plus a few useful things more, here, down the plage, in JimTM's post:
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/35944-new-user-what-next/

Thanks for the help guys!

Any aircraft that I should start with? Something easier to learn and fly and fight in?

Yak-1.

Ice - highest recommendation to Requiem's YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwV5RLX7mkaDy5gTIiuwGmg - IMHO his contributions are above and beyond. Also - for any one interested - a very comprehensive review of Kuban is over here... https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/

IL-2, stable and durable along with armament options that will show the 6th Army it came to the wrong neighborhood.

No recommendations for the German side? I was thinking the Bf 109 looked nice and aggressive, but again, I'm just basing this on looks with no real info on the aircraft.

I'm hoping the Yak-1 and the IL-2 are good dogfighters? Might as well try the IL-2, maybe the game is named after that aircraft for some reason?

For dogfighting I would say the IL-2 is a not so good choice
Amazing ground pounder though.

For German side, I dunno - only flown Fw-190 a few career attempts and it delivers. Never tried Bf109 nor the Stuka but it seems the 109 is what everyone else prefer flying blue side.

IL-2 = A10-C

I've got a few air to air kills in my IL-2 but generally you are dead without adequate cover when facing fighters.

Started watching the videos and starting to realize that maybe WWII fighters are still complex even when compared to modern fighters? In modern aircraft, you fiddle with the radar modes and bomb profiles, in WWII fighters, you monitor temps and RPM so you don't fall out of the sky?

Seems like I need to decide on an aircraft, find out its characteristics, and learn about those to start with.

Yes, is not just "slam the throttle and engage afterburner", care with your engine or soon you are in parachute. Why I suggest Yak-1 for start, is more forgiving in engine management.

In (BoS) German side try Bf 109 F-4, you can leave Propeller Pitch control in automatic, e.g fighting against AI, but manual control will give you best performance in PvP duels - if properly handled.

Yak-1 and Bf 109 are overall more friendly planes for dogfights in BoS - but Bf 109 (or Luftwaffe fighters) are not for turns engagement. Other fighters like La5, Fw 190 are best for "Experten" in energy fighters.

WW2 dogfights = the real emotion.

IL-2 is ground pounding aircraft, but in skilled hands can kick your ass in a Bf 109.

It depends on how you set your difficulty settings. It's very simple to un-tick "complex engine management" or whatever it's called in this sim, and then you don't need to worry about mixture, prop/RPM, or radiators, cowl flaps. You can focus on stick, rudder, throttle, and putting your sights on the enemy and pulling the trigger.

If it was me, I would start with that. Let's you get in and have fun right away, and you can learn how to effectively fight in a WWII environment (which is very fun!). And then add in complex engine management as you get comfortable with the rest.

IMHO this will allow you to have a ton of fun right off the bat and increase the fidelity of simulation as you get ready for it. One thing I think IL-2 BoX does much better than BMS or DCS is scalability. I feel like in BMS and DCS you are learning to play a different game when you turn the simulation settings down, and you take several steps back when you add those elements back in. I don't think that's the case in BoS. The way the game is set up you can add in some of the complex elements as you want them, and it doesn't really invalidate the other things you've already learned.

Ice, Ice, Ice... This is a WWII sim. You don't start with take off and landing practice. You don't start with reading the manual. You start by clicking "Instant Action" putting the cross-hairs over the enemy, and shooting bad guys down!!!

Okay, no plans against going PvP here. Heck, at the moment, I'm PvTail. I remember OG or some other member here talking about how taildraggers were taxi'd on the ground differently but I'm approaching keyboard-smashing levels of frustration here!

On the instant action with takeoff and landing where I start on the runway, I can control the aircraft enough to take off safely. On that last IA where I start in some sort of shelter, good luck getting me onto the runway. Wheeeeee!! Ground loops all over the place.

Am I supposed to taxi with the tailwheel unlocked?



I will take your advice! Since the manual states about 8,666 Yaks were built, then something must be right about this plane!



Oh, there is an easy mode? I've not dived into the options yet, so it's on default. I've only been remapping a few controls. Where do I find this? What is the advantage of learning CEM aside from the steeper learning curve?



That is exactly my philosophy!! Which I think I'm going to ignore for now? Maybe? I'm really not sure how to proceed. I can see the challenge of just flying these birds....

Let me ask these questions:
1. Does anyone really do startups in these aircraft? Like total manual startups? Or is it really just pressing "E" and waiting for the startup sequence to finish?

2. The cockpits aren't clickable, right?

3. How "study sim" is this game? Is it DCS A10C or BMS levels? Or is aircraft fidelity sacrificed for more action, ala FC3?

I think this will help me get into the right mindset for this sim.



Where's the pew-pew button then???

Another question -- how do I change FOV? I know scroll wheel does this but I need to zoom out more; I feel too close to the instruments even on max zoom out and this is still on one monitor. I suspect I'll need to adjust more once I return to flying on three screens.

1. No.
2. Correct.
3. More FC3 than BMS/A-10C but goes for clicking only. Aircraft fidelity is high without any digial cockpit simulation so I'd say advanced FC.

Only thing I'm unsatisfied with is the mission editor, makes me kill kittens and burn cars, after mere 3 minutes in there.

LOL Ice. Sokol1 and I gave you conflicting answers on the importance of Complex Engine Management. So I guess it's up to if you when you'd like to learn first; aircraft systems and engine management, or flying and fighting.

I still think the nature of this sim allows you to pick where you focus first (as opposed to BMS/DCS where you need to learn on the boring minutia before you can blow anything up).

Steerable tailwheels (and nosewheels for that matter) were in their infancy back then. A few planes had them, most didn't and featured only free-castoring, or lockable tailwheels (100% locked or 100% unlocked without anything inbetween). Should you taxi with wheel unlocked? Well, you have to turn somehow, don't ya ? Although I admit the lock is barely useful in this sim, as the wheel tends to slip hopelessly, as if terrain was covered with butter - concrete or dirt doesn't matter. As a result BoX planes tend to yaw somewhat with lock on anyway. This is where DCS has a realism advantage, the tailwheels there have noticeably higher lateral grip and thus do have some actual, practical purpose . That being said, in either of these sims, only rudder in itself is not enough to control the taildragger plane on the ground, nor should it be. Differential braking is needed all the time - even if not for initiating the turn, then certainly for stopping it! Make sure you learn how differential brakes operate in your chosen plane (different systems - usually toe brakes for Germans but central stick handle + rudder pedals for Russians), make correct controller assignments in the options and off you go.

The sim is FC-3 equivalent - thus there is no clickability and no manual startup procedure. Somewhat simplified interaction with aircraft systems as well (many of which are either not implemented, or turned on by default). That being said, in the heat of actual dogfight that doesn't make a difference anyway (just like in DCS/FC3).

No idea about zoom, because I like default one, and am quite a noob in this franchise as well (only about two weeks "older" than You ).

The game has three "realism" levels - notice that in all the planes FM is the same.

NORMAL - Have all "piloting assistance" aids ON (simplify controls, cruise control, throttle limit, radiator assist...) and all gameplay aids (icons, labels, HUD...), you need control only throttle and basic flight controls.

CUSTOM - Allow you choose what "piloting assistance" aids use and some "cheaters" (Simplifications) - unbreakable, invulnerability, unlimited ammo, fuel...

EXPERT - All aids OFF, and camera limited to cockpit view only.

By turning all aids OFF in CUSTOM but leaving "Allow spectators" you have EXPERT MODE with external camera.

NORMAL is too "arcade" (IMO), for start use CUSTOM and turn ON some engine aids like 'throttle auto limit", "engine auto control", "radiator assist" and "warmed up engines" - so can press E and after the length start-up script animations (like DCS Win+Home) slam the throttle.

Lock tail wheel is not available for all planes, depends on how is IRL. E.g. LaGG-3 don't have.

Assign a joy button - e.g. Warthog paddle, for "Wheels brakes" and use this together with rudder for for brake only right or left wheel in ground taxi in Russian planes.

Since this brake is "ON/OFF" don't press and hold the button, but gently tap. Taxi at low pace.

For Luftwaffe planes can use "toe brakes" on your rudder pedal ("right wheel brake", "left wheel brake"), but the above system work for this planes too - gameplay concession for "twist stick" only players.

"M" key don't show navigation map, but a kind of "GPS display" limited to your plane surrounds. For seem navigation map hit O key.

ZOOM (inside cockpit) is in Pilot Heal Control > Assign a button/HAT for Pilot Head: Zoom in and for Pilot Head: Zoom out.

Controls names is somewhat impaired by bad translation (done by Russian translator and not be someone used to English).

You adjust camera position in cockpit with keys

Insert, home, Page Up,
Delete, End, Page Down

And save the new position with F-10 - is advisable change this for Alt+F10 for avoid accidental save.

Oh my. You need a stress ball or something?



I've always maintained that a new pilot can "find the fun" in games like BMS and DCS with minimal study of the other systems, but that was with me knowing more intimate details of the sim and can tell the new pilot what he needs to know and what he can ignore. In this situation, I'm now the new pilot trying to drink out of a firehose I've not felt like a true newbie facing a learning cliff for a long time now



I have a feeling my brakes aren't mapped properly. Can you give me a primer how to brake in Russian aircraft, specifically the Yak-1? I've a feeling it's not just tapping on the toe brakes?


@Sokol1 - thanks for the tips! Any benefit with going for harder-than-normal difficulty? With brakes on the Yak-1, how is this done?

It's no use being a hot-shot pilot that can kill any enemy even on a snapshot if he can't bloody taxi back to his hangar without going dizzy from all the ground loops!

Brake in the Russian (British, Italian...) way:





Ground loops means that you are moving too fast.

Yak-1 allow lock the tail wheel (LShift+G).

On taxi pull the stick back and hold, throttle up slow - the goal is move very slow, when want turn, "type" on brake button with full rudder for the turn side. Easy.

So no toe brakes? And brakes will apply to the side with the rudder pedal forward?

This is correct for Russian planes. Some of the German planes do have toe brakes.

In Bo'X series all German planes, P-39, P-40, A-20 and Russian i-16 use "toe brakes" (as IRL).

All other Russian planes, Mc 202 (Italian), Spitfire Mk.Vb use "differential brakes" (as IRL).

BTW - Not related, but another game/planes peculiarity that cause confusion for casual players:

In Bo'X series only Bf 109, Mc 202 and Ju-52 allow use an (analog) axis for "Stabilizer adjust" (pitch trim).

All other planes need use keys/buttons/HAT's for trims.

And each plane has trim like their IRL counterpart, some has only for pitch (e.g Bf 109), others for pitch and rudder (e.g. Spit), others for pitch, rudder, aileron (Pe-2).

In controls (Key binding) are three category of trim names (some specific for a given plane), but game allow use the same key/button for different controls, what simplify the control in practice.

Okay, so with rudders neutral, squeezing the brake handle will apply brakes on both wheels. With the left rudder forward, squeezing the brake handle will apply left wheel brake. Do I have that correct?

Correct.

Because when you move rudder bar for left the valve attached to rudder bar release (vent for atmosphere) the brake pressure (compressed air) in right wheel.

Major news from the Lapino airfield!! Newbie pilot -Ice has finally successfully completed his taxi-takeoff-land-taxi mission and only doing less than a dozen ground loops this time! There may be hope for this pilot yet!!

I'm not yet using my TrackIR and so use the F4 external view when taxiing, is there a command for leaning-out-the-cockpit view?

Do you guys taxi with the tailwheel unlocked? I find it too sensitive so I lock the tailwheel back whenever I can and approach sharp turns gently, unlock the tailwheel for as short a period as possible. What speed do you guys taxi at? I'm hovering between 10-20km/h.

Open cockpit and lean with Delete and End keys until set TrackIR.

Generally you lock tail wheel for take-off and leave unlocked for taxi.

Thanks Sokol!


I thought so but damn is it sensitive! Any more tips? You mentioned just tapping on the brakes and I can do that to keep straight but when doing turns, well, I usually need a loop or two to straighten out. The difficult bit is when I pass a point-of-no-return and I know that a loop is coming again and I've no way of stopping it from happening. I can now control it sooner than I did before, but once past that point, I feel like I'm in for a ride until it sorts itself out enough for me to get control again.

I'd say it's "just" a question of getting used to. Like in helicopters, thinking and acting ahead is the name of the game. Don't wait until that point of no return, anticipate and apply oposite brake tap or two almost immediately after the beginning of the turn, before the damn thing becomes a bit too eager to rotate! Maybe you're taxiing a bit too fast as well? In some planes, like the P-40 for example, the brakes are so crappy, that they cannot "catch" and stop the turn when you roll too fast. Might be similar case in the plane of your choice.

Can anyone tell me a safe and max speed to be taxiing at?

Ha! That's a tough one, and I'd be surprised if anyone answered. It's just not something you measure exactly (honestly, have you ever done it in DCS or XPlane?), or even can measure at all (I use BoX with all on-screen helpers off, except for radio chatter text, and most speed indicators working off the ordinary pitot tube just don't pick up anything below 50 kph). Simply put, safe/max speed is the one which allows you to control the plane on the ground safely . Just look at real life vids of warbirds taxiing and do the same thing. Works in BoX just fine.

OK, OK, to be more precise - safe is somewhere between walking and jogging pace of an adult human, max is close to average guy's runnnig pace .

Let me narrow that down to safe and max taxi speed for the Yak-1, for when the HUD aids are on and I can see my groundspeed in kph.




I believe it can be done in DCS A10C, but I definitely do it in BMS, where straight-line taxi can be done at 20-30knots and turns are best done at 10-15knots IIRC. The speed readout can be seen on the DED.

Well, Lapino is good place for 'train" taxi, you spawn just in the middle of runway length and need taxi this distance for take-off point.

I did some taxi with Yak-1 there: release tail wheel for initial 90 degrees turn, then lock for that half runway taxiway length, the final turn was able to to with wheel locked, if keep speed bellow than ~15KM/H. Help too keep the rudder full pressed for the side of the next turn, and then press the "wheels brakes", in that way you loose less speed than will loose if brake both wheels first for after release the opposite wheel. If you keep 20 KM/H or more brakes may have not authority for the turn an/or the plane will make "donuts".

If you have complete control over engine (what I do) can reduce the propeller pitch (RPM) and have less tendency to accelerate in straight taxi.

Fair enough, I forgot modern combat planes have all the electronic INS and whatnot gizmos to measure speed more accurately! None of this playstation-crap on old birds, though .

Sokol's observations seem to agree with my ballpark "figures". As you probably know relative gear-to-CoG layout of tricycle gear planes makes them self-aligning by default, while the taildraggers are exactly opposite for the same reason. Thus the former can taxi and turn waaaay faster than the latter, as your BMS and now BoS experiences confirm .

I do cheat a bit by using the F4 view and I also have the HUD readouts so I have a speed readout during taxi. Training wheels are on for the moment!

Normally you should be taxiing at walking pace, and, if tailwheeled, doing Ss to ascertain there are no obstacles on your path. Some planes are very sensitive to power variations and rudder is inneffective at taxi speed unless you use brakes as well. Russian planes don't taxi inthe same way as germans or americans, so there is no miracle recipe.

Basics are: slow speed, low and constant rpms (between 1000 and 1300 usually), S path, lock tailwheel on straight lines if equipped, differential braking for turns, symetrical braking instead of throttling back less than 1000 rpm to slow down. Throttle idle only for full stop.

Well, I'm asking specifics for the Yak-1 for now.

Yak-1 is typical russian, when applying brakes use rudder for differential braking, rest applies.