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#4414212 - 04/01/18 09:04 PM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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There a lot of things I do like about the DCS control mapping layout but there is clearly room for improvement. The different ways of manipulating a similar control device for certain 3rd party aircraft doesn't help either. There were a few things I didn't like myself but I don't recall which. I think I may remember them when the update is released and I have to move / update my Alpha control configurations into the release branch.

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#4414214 - 04/01/18 09:07 PM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by Paradaz
Clearly we have different experiences and different attitudes. Yours are based on one aircraft module dating back to 2010, our are based on the full fleet of available modules, terrains and let-downs from 2008 to present.

The narrow view is very funny.

DCS runs great in my system therefore it is great and all others who are complaining are liars!
I only have one module and runs great therefore DCS knows what they're doing and all other who are complaining are bitter, burned customers!
I am having so much fun in this MP server and there are a lot of scripted stuff that makes the theatre come alive therefore DCS is awesome because this theatre was like this out of the box!


seehearspeak


Now you try to be fun .. no wonder that you got banned even BMS forums :/

Last edited by Haukka81; 04/01/18 09:07 PM.

I5 8400 , 16gb , GTX 1070 oc , Win10 64bit . Virpil T-50 27" monitor with 2560x1440 rez ... DCS + Oculus CV1 + Samsung Odyssey . (odyssey is better for flight sims)
#4414216 - 04/01/18 09:39 PM Re: Control mapping [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by bisher
Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
How can I discuss, what I havent experienced? You want me to agree with you, based only on what you say......whats the point? I have no problem with seeing things from a different perspective, you dont have to agree with me, that's OK, but dont expect me to agree with you, we dont have to agree! Doesnt mean I feel the necessity to bash, everything you say to a pulp! I expect the same courtesy from you!


I agree with this poster


No-one is saying everyone has to agree with each other.....only that defending ED on a very limited knowledge set based on the A10 module will not go far when discussing their incompetence. It's not rocket science.

The 2.5 open beta and lack of 'release' version 2 months after they stated would be 1-2 weeks is an easy example to make....however 'Slippery_Rat' obviously won't be taking this into account because it's not 3-4 years old, settled with plenty of bug fixes in place. Unfortunately, this isn't what competency is measured against.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4414217 - 04/01/18 09:51 PM Re: Control mapping [Re: Haukka81]  
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Originally Posted by Haukka81
lots of things need work sure but nothing too serious.

Just my 2cents biggrin


quote from the 2.5 thread.

would you say control mapping is one of those things that are 'nothing too serious'?

Originally Posted by Haukka81
no wonder that you got banned even BMS forums :/


what does that have to do with control mapping?




#4414222 - 04/01/18 11:09 PM Re: Control mapping [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
Quote
You used to have a really good attitude, but lately, at least in this forum seem quite bitter....too bad!
Your positive, comments and assistance have been appreciated by many, me included.


My 1st sentence was an observation, or my interpretation of what you have been saying, not a criticism. Trolling is your interpretation of what was said certainly not my intention.
My 2nd sentence certainly couldnt be construed as trolling!!

From Wilipedia:
Quote
In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.


It's not from what you say but rather from what you've done. You ask about a topic not to learn about it and make up your mind, you ask to draw people out and then make fun of them. Did you really participate in a discussion about your initial questions? Or did you just want a response that you can throw half-assed comments at?

with the intent of provoking readers into an [emotional] response
You just wanted to start something and were not really interested in a true discussion. Troll. Here's a much closer definition:
Source - read the 2nd one.



Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
How can I discuss, what I havent experienced? You want me to agree with you, based only on what you say......whats the point? I have no problem with seeing things from a different perspective, you dont have to agree with me, that's OK, but dont expect me to agree with you, we dont have to agree! Doesnt mean I feel the necessity to bash, everything you say to a pulp! I expect the same courtesy from you!

Are you only really limited to discussing what you've experienced first-hand? If so, then you DO have a problem seeing things from a different perspective. It's called empathy.

You don't have to agree with me, but if you disagree, say so and say why. We've asked you multiple times to state your reasons for calling ED competent. Now you either believe ED to be incompetent and thus agree with us, or you believe ED to be competent, at which point you'll have to state your reasons. Otherwise, this whole exercise was just trolling from your part.

I answered your questions in a detailed manner; I expect the same courtesy from you. Let's see if you can see my perspective on this matter.





Originally Posted by Winfield
Originally Posted by Haukka81
no wonder that you got banned even BMS forums :/

what does that have to do with control mapping?

Nothing at all, but they have to grasp at SOMETHING, don't they? Find any counterpoints? Nope, but let's go ahead and take a personal jab at someone! Classic!




Originally Posted by bisher
This is a personal attack? Pull up your pants man! smile

Then explain to me how that statement had anything to do with discussion regarding ED? Betcha can't! smile


It's quite interesting to see how people hide when you are discussing a topic of substance, but then they come out of the woodwork and take a shot once things get down to the "attack the poster" level. They have nothing to say about the issue being discussed, but they have a lot to say about the one doing the discussion. Trolls.


- Ice
#4414232 - 04/02/18 12:06 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Originally Posted by Haukka81
lots of things need work sure but nothing too serious.

Just my 2cents biggrin


quote from the 2.5 thread.

would you say control mapping is one of those things that are 'nothing too serious





It works just fine, it wont take many seconds to clear default settings. (There is clear column button) Then i just map my own in.

Its same in BMS and many other games , dcs is not only one.

I have custom Suncom F-15 Throttle and Virpil T-50 , custom made pedals. How would any game know how to set up commands to like i would like to have em ?

So yes. From my point , dcs control setups is good. Easy to use and easy to customize axes , make sift buttons etc.. , there is many biger problems than control setup in dcs.



Last edited by Haukka81; 04/02/18 12:07 AM.

I5 8400 , 16gb , GTX 1070 oc , Win10 64bit . Virpil T-50 27" monitor with 2560x1440 rez ... DCS + Oculus CV1 + Samsung Odyssey . (odyssey is better for flight sims)
#4414242 - 04/02/18 05:38 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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But seriously, what does the "general" section of the control mapping do?

#4414245 - 04/02/18 05:57 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: Frederf]  
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Originally Posted by Frederf
But seriously, what does the "general" section of the control mapping do?


ED put that in to create colorful discussions in threads such as this one. Other than that I can not see a reason for it

#4414246 - 04/02/18 05:58 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: Haukka81]  
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Originally Posted by Haukka81
Originally Posted by Winfield
Originally Posted by Haukka81
lots of things need work sure but nothing too serious.

Just my 2cents biggrin


quote from the 2.5 thread.

would you say control mapping is one of those things that are 'nothing too serious





It works just fine, it wont take many seconds to clear default settings. (There is clear column button) Then i just map my own in.

Its same in BMS and many other games , dcs is not only one.

I have custom Suncom F-15 Throttle and Virpil T-50 , custom made pedals. How would any game know how to set up commands to like i would like to have em ?

So yes. From my point , dcs control setups is good. Easy to use and easy to customize axes , make sift buttons etc.. , there is many biger problems than control setup in dcs.




Ah, you can stay on topic after all.

#4414256 - 04/02/18 09:35 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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Getting back to what the OP initially proposed in this thread, I feel the irritation of how ED implements module control a very minor issue.

In defense of ED's approach, it allows for great flexibility, something some users appreciate.
To me, more flexibility is preferable to lack there-of.


Last edited by Slippery_Rat; 04/02/18 09:44 AM. Reason: ooops
#4414270 - 04/02/18 11:41 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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What's flexibility got to do with:

"What's the use for the General axis commands if it doesn't overwrite other aircraft-specific mappings?"

#4414276 - 04/02/18 11:56 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: Slippery_Rat]  
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Originally Posted by Haukka81
Its same in BMS and many other games , dcs is not only one.

Oh? BMS maps pitch/yaw/roll/thrust into the joystick, throttle and rudder? I don't think so.


Originally Posted by Haukka81
So yes. From my point , dcs control setups is good. Easy to use and easy to customize axes , make sift buttons etc.. , there is many biger problems than control setup in dcs.

So since the deficiencies of ED can be fixed by the end-user, then it isn't a problem? What about ED fixes their deficiencies so that the end-user doesn't have to?



Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
Getting back to what the OP initially proposed in this thread, I feel the irritation of how ED implements module control a very minor issue.

In defense of ED's approach, it allows for great flexibility, something some users appreciate.
To me, more flexibility is preferable to lack there-of.

How is mapping the same thing three times over and over (and more if you have more aircraft) considered flexible? Do you use your X axis for roll in one aircraft and use it for pitch in another aircraft? Maybe use the throttle for engine control in one aircraft and use it as rudder control in another aircraft? If so, flexible, yes. Makes sense, no.

There should be one UNIVERSAL setup for core controls like this, which under common sense would be GENERAL settings, and then just have overrides for specific aircraft just in case.... but again, for core controls like pitch/yaw/roll/thrust, I don't see how it'll differ from one aircraft to the next, whether you're in a P-51 or a Hornet.


- Ice
#4414277 - 04/02/18 11:57 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Ah, you can stay on topic after all.

And act as if nothing happened smile


- Ice
#4414349 - 04/02/18 08:04 PM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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BMS does do automatic mapping but it requires an explicit definition set up in a file for a particular controller GUID.and even then it only works for the single primary controller. You never get the multi-bind issue like in DCS (in fact you can't even if you try). If there is an automatic axis bind in BMS it's because of deliberate and specific human effort made to enact it.

DCS sees a GUID it is unfamiliar with and applies a generic auto-bind to it. The default behavior is to put X to roll, y to pitch, z to rudder, etc. without any consideration for anything else.

Flexibility and convenience are usually polar opposites. I would say DCS is flexible (especially if you go LUA editing) but it isn't convenient. The more adjustment that is possible the more effort is required generally to exploit that potential.

#4414596 - 04/04/18 09:00 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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I fly x-plane too, but so far I havent found the ability to create curves for all input devices.

The result is, I'm unable to control the speed of camera movement.....ie not able to define a curve, so using the controller, it moves too fast for precise movement.

The ability to define a curve allows the user to compensate for this behavior by altering the controller response curve.

X-plane 10, allows calibration of the primary stick but not peripheral devices.

#4414601 - 04/04/18 10:00 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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Complaining about camera controls and complaining about control mappings are two different topics altogether. I wonder what XP11 issues (esp. for camera control) have to do with DCS?


- Ice
#4414605 - 04/04/18 10:15 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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Are they!

Its all about mapping controls, software doesn't differentiate the purpose.

What about competency?

The flexibility to set controls is something I appreciate, maybe not you.

So why not, accept that some appreciate this feature, but you do not, and leave it at that.

I'm sure ED have bigger concerns, and are happy to let users resolve this for themselves. It's not an issue which determine whether someone will purchase the software and while maybe a irritation to some, many will see it as insignificant.

Given the potential of tasks at hand, hardly a priority or concern!

Would you be happy to see ED go bankrupt? No further development?

I suspect not!, as those purchasing newer modules, are truly the losers!

I also suspect they are acutely aware of their predicament better than you, consider your options.
Either way, it wont effect me.




#4414607 - 04/04/18 10:41 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: Slippery_Rat]  
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Sorry, I'm here to enjoy flight simulation, not making screenshots or videos. Complaining about XP11 camera controls in a discussion about DCS flight controls? Are you just trying to find excuses for DCS? How about this --- how many times do you have to map pitch/roll/yaw/thrust in XP11? Do you have to do it separately for the Cessna then again for the Beechcraft Baron? Do you have to do it for the 737 then again for the 747 then again for the MD-82?

How about this --- does XP11 map pitch/roll/yaw/thrust to the rudder, throttle and joystick?

Flexibility in setting controls is != stupid control assignments. If you appreciate stupid control assignments, if you appreciate having to un-bind controls on each aircraft, then just say so and I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
I'm sure ED have bigger concerns, and are happy to let users resolve this for themselves. It's not an issue which determine whether someone will purchase the software and while maybe a irritation to some, many will see it as insignificant.

Well, let's just say that if ED cannot even fix a minor concern like this one, I wish them all the best with their bigger concerns.


Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
Given the potential of tasks at hand, hardly a priority or concern!

Imagine you are ED. You have 5 big bugs that will take you months to squash and you have 20 small bugs that will take a week. Do you ignore the small bugs? In ED's case, yes, and that's why we're here.


Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
Would you be happy to see ED go bankrupt? No further development?

And in what way would I be responsible if ED were to go bankrupt? I'm not the one making silly decisions. I'm not the one who is unable to meet deadlines. To be honest, maybe it's better if they do go bankrupt. All these silly unfinished modules and perpetual betas, the heavy-handed moderation and censorship in their forum, the silly prices they're now starting to charge for modules, I can't see any of these being good signs for flight simulation as a hobby.

Please don't even think of going down the "if ED goes under, who will make modern-aircraft flight simulation??" excuse. If there's a gap in the market, I'm sure someone would fill it and given ED's performance, I'm sure they won't have trouble surpassing the bar that ED has set.


Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
I suspect not!, as those purchasing newer modules, are truly the losers!

Way to go insulting the rest of ED's customer base!


Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
I also suspect they are acutely aware of their predicament better than you, consider your options.
Either way, it wont effect me.

So what? They're aware of their issues, they're aware of their financial situation, they're in control of the decisions they make. Yet they still make a fool of themselves. 2.5 release was a prime opportunity to show us what they can really, REALLY do, what they can deliver. They fumbled on that one really bad. "1-2 weeks from beta to release?" Where is that now? Just goes to show that ED still haven't learned of their past mistakes. Also goes to show that ED themselves aren't aware of their own issues. If they were, they'd know that their software is far from a 1-2 week beta-to-release timeframe. So they either knew their software was far from release status yet still said "1-2 weeks" or they didn't have a clue about their software's release status and just made a "1-2 weeks" statement. Take your pick.

So are they REALLY aware of their predicament? Or are they living in la-la land? I can show you how it seems like they live in la-la land. Can you show me how ED is aware of their situation?


- Ice
#4414611 - 04/04/18 10:59 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: - Ice]  
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You are funny!

We are diametrically opposed, but thats OK with me, I enjoy your rationalization!, and I'm not a DCS fanboy, as I already said I only have a couple of modules!
Am I insulting or demeaning you....no, at least not my intention! I already defined my position several times, yet you choose to push me to respond to your issues, think about my responses, I'm being diplomatic here trying to avoid the troll label!

What can I say, just enjoy yourself!

#4414616 - 04/04/18 11:51 AM Re: Control mapping [Re: Slippery_Rat]  
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Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
I'm sure ED have bigger concerns, and are happy to let users resolve this for themselves.


No doubt a user will come up with the fix for the memory leak as the focus on live streams of the F-18 takes priority

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