#4411599 - 03/20/18 12:36 AM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: JimK]
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Vertigo1
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Zeta Aquilae System
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This is just the tip of the iceberg. Kill this folly before they force it on everyone. The machines can't handle all the necessary input to make safe judgments.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx
“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.” -Milton Friedman
Quem Deus vult perdere, prius dementat
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#4411612 - 03/20/18 01:15 AM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: JimK]
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,332
Spidey
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Jersey Yo
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It's no where near ready but remains to be seen whether it is actually safer than most people driving already. If you look at how most people drive these days...eating, texting, phone calls, etc.,
"No power in the 'verse can stop me!!!"
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#4411619 - 03/20/18 01:36 AM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: JimK]
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112
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The problem is, so many clues given by other cars & drivers aren’t something you can detect electronically. For example, I was driving down the interstate once and in the on-ramp there was a car driven by an old lady with her shoulders up by her ears and head fixed straight ahead. Instinct & experience told me she was an accident waiting to happen, so I let off the gas, fell back a bit to make room, and got ready to brake. Sure enough, when she got to the merge she just drove right in but the cars ahead of me apparently hadn’t seen what I did and were braking & swerving like mad. I had plenty of room to slow down & change lanes after a car passed me, without affecting anyone else around me. The lady was driving the same speed as the other merging vehicles, right until she slammed on the brakes. Tell me how a self-driving car will pick up on visual & instinctive clues like that.
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
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#4411620 - 03/20/18 01:39 AM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: NH2112]
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,845
JimK
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Spokane,WA
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The problem is, so many clues given by other cars & drivers aren’t something you can detect electronically. For example, I was driving down the interstate once and in the on-ramp there was a car driven by an old lady with her shoulders up by her ears and head fixed straight ahead. Instinct & experience told me she was an accident waiting to happen, so I let off the gas, fell back a bit to make room, and got ready to brake. Sure enough, when she got to the merge she just drove right in but the cars ahead of me apparently hadn’t seen what I did and were braking & swerving like mad. I had plenty of room to slow down & change lanes after a car passed me, without affecting anyone else around me. The lady was driving the same speed as the other merging vehicles, right until she slammed on the brakes. Tell me how a self-driving car will pick up on visual & instinctive clues like that. Exactly, and to think in Europe already they have fleets of self driving semi routes. Wonder when this will have an accident.
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#4411637 - 03/20/18 03:35 AM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: Master]
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,079
Blade_Meister
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Self driving car would probably handle that situation better than a human. They know how far back to drive based on their speed, weight and road conditions. They also are programed to assume cars driving next to them will merge so they frequently slow down so not to drive next to other vehicles. They also have sub milisecond response time so they can see accident before the human eye/brain can even register change.
They are by far the safer of all the vehicles on the road. The only thing that is a problem is sensor blindness if something gets on their camera etc. Ok, so if you really believe what you just wrote is true, then why is this lady dead? Regardless of whether she was in the right of way(crossing with the light correctly) or not, by what you say the driver less car should have never hit her or have been the last car on Earth to ever hit her. I will apologize in advance for my next statement, "I apologize to you Master". There is no computer or group of computers on this Earth that can process all the information that the Human brain processes and produce the self awareness and defensive capability response that the brain does from our physical senses. Computer technology is not even close to that level of computation. The cameras do not have peripheral vision, do not have seat of the pants sense of motion or the ability to see a potential problem like the earlier writer described to mention a few of their shortcomings. People believe to much of what they read and have no actual experience with. These companies want to push this technology because there is a ton of money to be made if they can get it right. They are not doing this because it is safer, they want the almighty dollar. I love technology, but I do not want to be the guinea pig that gets killed while they try to get it right. I hope the family of that lady sues Uber out of business and every company pushing this tech takes a step back and rethinks how to implement this product in a way that the general public will be safe from their tests. Automated cars are just death traps waiting to happen, and this already proves it. Sorry Master, but your statement is ignorant, and reeks of herd mentality, especially in light of the OP. Give it 20 years and maybe, but really, give it 40 years and I will be sure to be dead, then have at it, I won't care. As for now, I think I will draft a letter to my Senator against automated cars. S!Blade<>< Edit: Please don't write that she was J walking, so the whole thing was her fault, or I may go off and get banned here. Please don't do that , I really Love SHQ and visit everyday.
Last edited by Blade_Meister; 03/20/18 03:43 AM.
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#4411641 - 03/20/18 04:24 AM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: Spidey]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 15,786
Haggart
I Fought Diablo
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I Fought Diablo
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The Lone Star State
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It's no where near ready but remains to be seen whether it is actually safer than most people driving already. If you look at how most people drive these days...eating, texting, phone calls, etc., In 2017 an estimated 40,100 people died in traffic accidents ..... I have no doubt machines will do a lot better
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4411653 - 03/20/18 09:09 AM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: JimK]
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,112
TerribleTwo
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Cant wait to see what happens when a driverless car rolls up on a trash can blocking the road.
Whats next, a robot gets out and moves the trash can?
Imagine miles and miles of backup all because the driverless halted by a trash can.
"College graduates should not have to live out their 20s in their childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters and wondering when they can move out and get going with life" - Paul Ryan
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#4411684 - 03/20/18 12:54 PM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: NH2112]
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,113
KraziKanuK
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Ottawa Canada
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The problem is, so many clues given by other cars & drivers aren’t something you can detect electronically. For example, I was driving down the interstate once and in the on-ramp there was a car driven by an old lady with her shoulders up by her ears and head fixed straight ahead. Instinct & experience told me she was an accident waiting to happen, so I let off the gas, fell back a bit to make room, and got ready to brake. Sure enough, when she got to the merge she just drove right in but the cars ahead of me apparently hadn’t seen what I did and were braking & swerving like mad. I had plenty of room to slow down & change lanes after a car passed me, without affecting anyone else around me. The lady was driving the same speed as the other merging vehicles, right until she slammed on the brakes. Tell me how a self-driving car will pick up on visual & instinctive clues like that. Here she has the right of way. Main road traffic has to yield to merging traffic.
There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB. The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed. There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
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#4411686 - 03/20/18 01:08 PM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: Blade_Meister]
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,735
F4UDash4
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SC
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Edit: Please don't write that she was J walking, so the whole thing was her fault, ....
No, not entirely her fault. But when you break the law (assuming the city had a jaywalking law, some cities do some don't) and end up in trouble, injured, dead as a result you DO bear some responsibility.
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
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#4411689 - 03/20/18 01:12 PM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: KraziKanuK]
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112
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Jackman, ME
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The problem is, so many clues given by other cars & drivers aren’t something you can detect electronically. For example, I was driving down the interstate once and in the on-ramp there was a car driven by an old lady with her shoulders up by her ears and head fixed straight ahead. Instinct & experience told me she was an accident waiting to happen, so I let off the gas, fell back a bit to make room, and got ready to brake. Sure enough, when she got to the merge she just drove right in but the cars ahead of me apparently hadn’t seen what I did and were braking & swerving like mad. I had plenty of room to slow down & change lanes after a car passed me, without affecting anyone else around me. The lady was driving the same speed as the other merging vehicles, right until she slammed on the brakes. Tell me how a self-driving car will pick up on visual & instinctive clues like that. Here she has the right of way. Main road traffic has to yield to merging traffic. Not here, merging traffic always has to yield. You really have to yield for a merging vehicle while doing 100km/hr on your version of the interstate?
Last edited by NH2112; 03/20/18 01:13 PM.
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
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#4411720 - 03/20/18 03:57 PM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
cichlidfan
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Member
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Woodbridge, VA, USA
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Cant wait to see what happens when a driverless car rolls up on a trash can blocking the road.
Whats next, a robot gets out and moves the trash can?
Imagine miles and miles of backup all because the driverless halted by a trash can. Since you are actually talking about self-driving cars, the human inside would probably move the trash can, assuming they actually want to get to their destination.
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#4411723 - 03/20/18 04:08 PM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: cichlidfan]
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,735
F4UDash4
Veteran
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Veteran
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SC
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Cant wait to see what happens when a driverless car rolls up on a trash can blocking the road.
Whats next, a robot gets out and moves the trash can?
Imagine miles and miles of backup all because the driverless halted by a trash can. Since you are actually talking about self-driving cars, the human inside would probably move the trash can, assuming they actually want to get to their destination. And the robot car drives off without the human once the trash can is moved!! LOL
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
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#4411725 - 03/20/18 04:32 PM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: cichlidfan]
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
Jackman, ME
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Cant wait to see what happens when a driverless car rolls up on a trash can blocking the road.
Whats next, a robot gets out and moves the trash can?
Imagine miles and miles of backup all because the driverless halted by a trash can. Since you are actually talking about self-driving cars, the human inside would probably move the trash can, assuming they actually want to get to their destination. What if it’s empty on its way to its next fare?
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
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#4411735 - 03/20/18 05:17 PM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: Blade_Meister]
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master
meh
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meh
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
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Self driving car would probably handle that situation better than a human. They know how far back to drive based on their speed, weight and road conditions. They also are programed to assume cars driving next to them will merge so they frequently slow down so not to drive next to other vehicles. They also have sub milisecond response time so they can see accident before the human eye/brain can even register change.
They are by far the safer of all the vehicles on the road. The only thing that is a problem is sensor blindness if something gets on their camera etc. Ok, so if you really believe what you just wrote is true, then why is this lady dead? Regardless of whether she was in the right of way(crossing with the light correctly) or not, by what you say the driver less car should have never hit her or have been the last car on Earth to ever hit her. I will apologize in advance for my next statement, "I apologize to you Master". There is no computer or group of computers on this Earth that can process all the information that the Human brain processes and produce the self awareness and defensive capability response that the brain does from our physical senses. Computer technology is not even close to that level of computation. The cameras do not have peripheral vision, do not have seat of the pants sense of motion or the ability to see a potential problem like the earlier writer described to mention a few of their shortcomings. People believe to much of what they read and have no actual experience with. These companies want to push this technology because there is a ton of money to be made if they can get it right. They are not doing this because it is safer, they want the almighty dollar. I love technology, but I do not want to be the guinea pig that gets killed while they try to get it right. I hope the family of that lady sues Uber out of business and every company pushing this tech takes a step back and rethinks how to implement this product in a way that the general public will be safe from their tests. Automated cars are just death traps waiting to happen, and this already proves it. Sorry Master, but your statement is ignorant, and reeks of herd mentality, especially in light of the OP. Give it 20 years and maybe, but really, give it 40 years and I will be sure to be dead, then have at it, I won't care. As for now, I think I will draft a letter to my Senator against automated cars. S!Blade<>< Edit: Please don't write that she was J walking, so the whole thing was her fault, or I may go off and get banned here. Please don't do that , I really Love SHQ and visit everyday. There are many things that could have lead to this womans death and not all of them are the robots fault. The police said they reviewed the footage and the only comment they made was she was outside the crosswalk. That isnt enough info to make a case one way or another. Everything you say might be considered correct in a perfect world but people take driving for granted every day and thousands of people die for it. Statistically robot cars are far far far safer and will become even safer when people get used to them and how they function. More people die every year to vehicles than any other single cause. Its like standing in a burning building and arguing a man with a fire extenguisher is better equipted to fight a fire than an automated sprinkler system. You can protest all you want but they will become mainstream in my lifetime and it will save thousands of lives every year. And just to be clear I dont want them. I love driving and the thought of losing it and being forced into automated cars scares and angers me. But it will happen.
Last edited by Master; 03/20/18 05:20 PM.
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#4411744 - 03/20/18 05:51 PM
Re: Uber self driving cars. Setback.
[Re: JimK]
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112
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Posts: 13,215
Jackman, ME
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Seems like what this shows is that self-driving cars are as good at hitting jaywalkers as human drivers are. Again, a human driver would most likely see the person on the sidewalk and either slow down or be ready to brake when the person decides to cross. Will the robotic car see people bouncing on their toes on the sidewalk and understand what they’re going to do?
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
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