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#4411041 - 03/16/18 07:47 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Any chance you can post your build from Coriolis? If not no worries.

I'm particularly interested in your protection choices.


Look for me on SHQ Team Speak and I'll read them off to you.

Wingy


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#4411045 - 03/16/18 08:04 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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OK, but I don't have my headset hooked up at the mo for reasons smile

No worries, was just curious is all. I am concerned about the shields. You're pushing 600mj and I was curious as to how. And also whether you've opted for any hull reinforcement and which armor you've opted for.

I'm excited to have a new ship for the first time since last summer. Looking forward to taking her for a spin.


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#4411072 - 03/16/18 09:35 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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2 med and a large hardpoint isn't bad either. The cost is nice for a ship you keep around just when you feel the urge.


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#4411096 - 03/16/18 10:54 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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Here's the Chieftain reinforcement at the moment;

OA Shield Booster

OA Shield Booster; Engineered at G5 Resistance Augmented

OA Shield Booster; Engineered at G5 Resistance Augmented

Armor; Military Grade Composet; Engineered G5 Light Weight (reduced weight by 54%)

5A Shield Generator; Engineered at G5 Reinforced Shields (162%)

5D Hull Reinforcement; Engineered at G5 Heavy Duty Reinforced (606)

4D Hull Reinforcement; Engineered at G5 Heavy Duty Reinforced (532)

4D Hull Reinforcement; Engineered at G5 Heavy Duty Reinforced (510)

4D Module Reinforcement Package

Wingy


i5-2500K @4.3gh
Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
16gb Mushkin PC3 1600
EVGA 760 4gb DDR5 2768 KR
CoolerMaster 922 Mesh 3x200mm, 2x140mm fans
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO
WD Caviar BLK 500gb SATA 6gb
WD Caviar BLK 1TB SATA 6gb
Intel 730 Series 480GB SATA 6gb
OCZ ZX-850 Gold
Lite-On DVD Burner
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Warthog #11118 Woot!!!
Sennheiser 360 Headphones
#4411098 - 03/16/18 11:08 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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That's why I don't talk about engineer-modified stats; very little people really has access to them.


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#4411144 - 03/17/18 03:42 AM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, but it's interesting to see what is possible. I imagine that would give purpose to the game once you have all the ships you want. I am sure I'll be doing that in the future if I stick with the game. But at the moment, that engineering is giving his Chieftain about double the shields of my Chieftain. Yep, new owner.

Outfitting on a budget

I flew the Asp X to the nearest Lakon dealer. Well, not the nearest, but the closest one with a Chieftain on the lot. Paid my 19m and took it to the custom shop. I had 32m left, and I figured I should keep twice the re-buy in the bank. New ship, compromise build, me at the controls. Best to keep the extra insurance money on hand. The 6A power plant of course had to wait, and I installed a 6C. Had to skimp on the power distributor as well and went with 6D The rest of the core internals were top-shelf. Chose a 6C Bi-Weave and put a couple of shield boosters, a chaff launcher and a point defense on the utilities.

I put multi-cannons on the large HPs and pulse lasers everywhere else. A little armor boost as well. Didn't have the money to sort out the optional internals. I flew a couple of bounty hunting missions to a nearby high-RES and earned enough to upgrade the distributor to 6A. Just before heading out for the first mission I remembered Wingnuts mentioning the field maintenance and threw one in. Jump range is a very acceptable 19, but as I get money, this will get heavier and the JR will suffer. Still, it's really good jump range for a combat ship, and would make the Chieftain a great choice for kill missions, like assassinations where you have to travel a bit. It's also great for getting to CG's.So this is what a little less than 50m will buy you, give or take.

[Linked Image]


First Impressions

Took the keys and down to the hangar.. Great 'pit in this thing. The cockpit feels like flying a 109, or maybe a Razorback P-47. The framing gives me that feeling. Great overhead and lateral vision. A different sort of feel than my other ships. I like.

Dockside handling is really nice. I already feel like I can land this thing better than other ships. I had read about poor lateral thrust, but around port at least it's very responsive. Great yaw ability. Seemed to be so in supercruise as well, but no one is going to care much about that. I didn't get interdicted, but it seems that evasion would be a snap, if the Chieftain's yaw control carries over in that mini-game, which it should right? But you might not want to evade, you're in a Chieftain!

The boost sound is, well, I don't know. You will know you've boosted, or at least think someone fired a missile from just outside your cockpit. Overall early impressions were really good. Nothing so far that I didn't like.

Combat

This is why one buys a Chieftain, innit right? My initial reaction to the Chieftain's flight model was not good. This thing drifts. My combat skills have been honed in the Vulture. I flew the Chieftain the same way. Or I tried. It is not a Vulture. I hit one asteroid so hard that I collapsed my shields and took 5% hull damage. Flying it like a Vulture gets you pointing the right way, but traveling the other way. It's like the engines/thrusters can't match the impressive pitch control. It can't overcome it's inertia when the 'AoA' is high. It's mushy like you see those airshow crashes when the jet just goes soft. The Chieftain lacks purchase under aggressive maneuvering. Or it does as equipped, I should say. This affects the sense of acceleration. Once the Chieftain is going the right way it seems peppy enough. But if you let it wallow out, the acceleration seems to take too long to kick in, and the target can extend, or you will fail to gain separation.

I never took hull damage in the Vulture. I got hit sure, but the shields were always enough, and the extreme maneuverability means you can play catch me if you can while waiting for recharge. In the Chieftain I got hit. And took damage. Worst was down to 70%. I took most of it from the front and the canopy never cracked. I don't know if the canopy was hit or not, but seems likely and anyway it stayed intact. An expert NPC Clipper gave me everything I could handle. We had our own dance away from the others and it was tight. Like a joust, where each ship made a head-on pass and then turned around and did it again. I couldn't get inside his circle. I finally boosted away and he was then engaged by others. At a little better than 300mj, the shields are just weak. If the Chieftain had the Vulture's agility it would be less of an issue. Obviously in this early budget-build I have not maxed out. But with 6C Bi-Weave and two boosters there isn't much more other than engineering. You can stack some armor on, but that adds mass. This is no shield tank, and I miss that from the Vulture. Shields are like are like a built-in combat timer. Just come back when they're ready. I would rather rely on shields than hull anytime.

Act 2

I flew back to the station and cashed in my bounties. Decided to christen the ship Ashigara. The first visit to the RES was filled with FDLs and Gunships and lots of high value stuff. Got 1.7m but decided against upgrading the distributor just yet. just in case. After repair and replenishment I sat there thinking about that first hop. I wasn't all that impressed. Sure, for everything not combat it is great. I like the ship. But I bought it to hunt. And in combat it just didn't match the Vulture in my eyes. But I had noticed that the Chieftain seemed to be especially agile at high speed. The Vulture is sort of a pig at full speed. But drop it in to the blue and it whips around like a banshee.The Chieftain doesn't care about being in the blue. So I though about flying it like an energy fighter. The Vulture is the Spitfire, the Chieftain is the 109. Classic boom and zoom ya know?

So I flew back to the RES and changed tactics. Full throttle all the time. I bounced ships and extended. The Vulture is best flown on the tips of the target's exhaust. The Chieftain needs to hit and run. And it excelled. The key for me was to never let it mush. As soon as the speed starts to bleed, ease off and let it recover. It retains it's agility, and doesn't get in to the bogged down state that kills it. And the weapons are exceptionally well placed for this. It's like a sniper ship. It puts out a concentrated cone of fire. The full weight of the volley at all ranges. Changing the way I flew opened my eyes, and let this ship shine. I broke out all of the old moves, chandelles, rolling scissors, Immelmans. Distance is controlled by maneuver, not the throttle. This works especially well in the typical RES, as the swirling maelstrom is moving in slow motion, and you're slashing through and bouncing your targets. I took no more damage after changing tactics. Energy fighting helps to negate the ship's weaknesses and maximize it's strengths. In a one-on-one dogfight, I'll take the Vulture everytime. But in a furball, each has it's strengths.

The second and third trips to the RES saw smaller targets. All Adders, Cobras, Vipers, so the money dropped off. Still, I could afford to A-rate the distributor. There is still a long way to go on this build, but I think for 50 million you can get yourself a good combat Chieftain. My opinion now is that this is a great ship. It's more flexible than the Vulture. But I won't be getting rid of mine anytime soon.

The action was thick, and I was having so much fun that I failed to get any good interior shots, but I did manage this one from the first hop. Kinda like a 109 right? Doesn't show much, sorry.

[Linked Image]









Attached Files Chieftain.jpgchiefcockpit.jpg
Last edited by DBond; 03/17/18 01:38 PM.

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4411180 - 03/17/18 12:51 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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I watched a video where it said that the ship was a hull tank, not a shield tank.


Source
7:45 point


Have you A-rated the thrusters? IIRC, this is the module that defines your flight characteristics. Maybe a D-rated one isn't enough to handle the ship but an A-rated one will do better? My Cutter has C-rated thrusters and boy, does it drift! The annoying thing is that I get stuck on the mailslot with it if it drifts up/down too much and hits the slot. What?!?!??!! Have you seen the shape of the Cutter? What part of it gets stuck on the slot?


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#4411181 - 03/17/18 12:56 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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You didn't read my review did you? biggrin


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#4411182 - 03/17/18 12:59 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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I did. You didn't mention anything about thrusters smile


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#4411184 - 03/17/18 01:07 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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Umm have a gander at the first screenshot biggrin

And yes, hull tank is correct, but the more mass you add the worse the handling and the lower the jump range. That's part of why I prefer a shield tank. Damaged shields regenerate. Hull damage does not. This alone is reason for me to look into engineering. I'd love to have the 600mj shileds that Wingnuts is rocking.


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#4411186 - 03/17/18 01:22 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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Aha! I was reading and not looking smile

+1 on shield tanking!


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#4411194 - 03/17/18 03:48 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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I'll hopefully get some more time in it tonight. I wish there was a CG for me to do. I mean there is, but I'm not sure what it means to collect Thargoid flotsam, or how easy thy are to find. Don't want to fly halfway across the universe to not know what to do.

I need to get the 6A power plant (12m), and then experiment with various weapons configurations. The hardpoint placement means all are viable I imagine, even rail guns. I'd like to try a rail in the medium HP at least. I have yet to try most weapons in the game, like frag cannons and plasma accelerators. This ship seems the ideal test bed. I'm at the power limit, so need the new PP before swapping new weapons around. Until now, I haven't been so concerned about the main weakness of any of my ships. But the shields on this thing need a boost. I think I need to learn how to engineer them.

Who should buy a Chieftain? Anyone who wants a good combat ship with good jump range and versatile weapon combinations. Heat and power aren't an issue with the top modules as far as I can tell.

But if you already have a FAS or a Vulture it may make sense to look at other ships.


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#4411456 - 03/19/18 12:38 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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Eventually I made enough money to 6A-rate the power plant, and added two more shield boosters, for four total. With the Bi-Weave, this brought the shields up to 408mj, which is not far short of my Vulture.

In the end I decided to sell it and get a FDL, The Chieftain is a fine ship, but I just didn't like flying it in asteroid fields. The lack of purchase I mentioned is a drawback, the drift keeps me from loving it. It has many fine points, and at the price point it's a good deal, just not the ship for me in the end. It can't slalom through the rocks like the FDL or Vulture. If one wants a jack of all trades, but mostly combat ship, this is a great choice. It's the Cobra's big brother in some ways in my mind.

I had spent about 61m to get it outfitted properly, and my new FDL is 67m. So for about the same money I have what I feel is a significantly better combat ship, a more precise instrument, but one that lacks the Chieftain's versatility. I decided that as long as I have the Asp, versatility isn't needed. I just need a kick-ass fighter.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4411532 - 03/19/18 07:08 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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So a medium-size Chieftain has drift while a medium-size FDL doesn't? That doesn't make sense....


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#4411542 - 03/19/18 07:30 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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I think it's those amazing vertical thrusters.

Whatever the reason, the FDL tracks true. Maybe it's the acceleration that overcomes the drift. I dunno.


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#4411968 - 03/21/18 06:21 PM Re: Alliance Chieftain [Re: DBond]  
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having flown the FDL for a couple more days, yep, it's not a drift ship. Surely it's the thrusters. Aggressive maneuvering without power applied will drift. But as long as you're giving it gas it doesn't drift. The Chieftain drifts no matter what I do, aside from less aggressive maneuvering that is.

I happened to notice in the patch notes from the hotfix a day ago that one of the things was 'Fixed too-large hitbox on Chieftain canopy' to paraphrase. So FDev saw an issue with it too.


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