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#4409907 - 03/10/18 06:53 AM DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread  
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Winfield Offline
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I have been following the YAK-52 since it was 1st announced. Not an aircraft I would buy any time soon, however it looks as though confirmation from ED's community manager and it's 'official testers that the platform being DCS world is already looking to expand into General Aviation and Commercial aviation
No doubt this expansion will include Carenado, FlyJsim and many other aircraft 3rd party developers contracted to release civilian aircraft into the not so 'combat simulator'

Now this is 'breaking news' in the flight sim world.

It is all but confirmed with out an official press release that ED\TFC\Belsimtek are currently in negotiations with general aviation and commercial aviation sim developers to bring non combat aircraft to the series called Digital Combat Simulator.

After all, it was only a matter of time.....

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Now these Community Managers and testers have inside information, they are posting as endorsed community managers and testers with out saying IMO or this is MO and not withstanding association with 'the employer' in which they are on the payroll

Evidence that there is GA and CA endorsements happening behind the scenes.


Source

Let me put this into perspective. Who in the sim world got into DCS with the release of the A-10C? I know I did, trainers, multiplayer cockpits came years after. Who actually has been in a multiplayer environment guiding those new DCS on how to fly the hawk, L-39 ect ect? I haven't.

Anyone saying they would love to fly GA or a POS prop plane and work their way into a jet is just wasting time. Buy X-plane 11 and fly in that if you want a stepping stone in the jet world. You can pick up x-plane 11 on steam for less than the cost of a single module in DCS. it comes with numerous planes and guides on how to fly....DCS doesn't offer any guides.

Just a waste of bandwidth from those endorsed by ED to get the message across that ED is heading in the GA\CA direction.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4409913 - 03/10/18 07:16 AM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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IceecI Offline
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You're not allowed to complain because you can buy other modules no one is forcing you to buy Yak, therefore you have no rights, in fact you have no rights to say anything negative about Yak and you can buy other modules so be quiet troll -1 rep.
Sound familiar?

I personally like that uboats comment.

Last edited by IceecI; 03/10/18 07:53 AM.

Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
#4409915 - 03/10/18 07:53 AM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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I never understood this "flight training" thing inside a simulator, you cannot fly the MiG-29A or Su-25T learning navigation and/or whatever they try to educate new players to know? As a new guy I should be happy and proud to try the A-10C after 4 weeks flying a L-39, Hawk (God forbid) or Yak-52? Seriously, in a simgame?

Nice comment from that "uboats" guy btw, perfect example of an apologista-muppet. Thank fekking God I don't live his life.

#4409918 - 03/10/18 08:35 AM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: IceecI]  
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Originally Posted by IceecI
I personally like that uboats comment.


uboats comment to me reads "yes I support the intergration of GA\CA, GA\CA airports are already implemented into DCS so let's all sit back (Winfield over at SimHQ included), wait for Carenado to release some C-175's and have a campaign where we fly from one implemented airfield to another"

Ciribob who is now an ED tester can implement a "load civilians script" into a FlyJSim Airbus 350 and we can fly it from Butumi to Tbilisi until DCS build further maps so we can fly from Tbilisi to Toronto Canada. RRP of the airbus will be $79.95 USD

Ciribob's Complete Transport and Logistics Deployment script for those not familiar with Ciribob's claim to fame

CTLD script

#4409926 - 03/10/18 11:59 AM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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1. If you're not interested in combat, then why fly DCS? XP11 or P3D offers a better experience, I'm sure, and for much less cost. Does DCS implement TACAN or VOR? Can you navigate IFR in DCS? I'm sure you can in XP11/P3D! Also, why wait for civilian aircraft to appear in DCS? They already exist in XP11/P3D

2. What interest would Carenado and the likes have for DCS? I've got a feeling the DCS market is far smaller than that of XP11/P3D, so unless they can import their work already done into DCS with minimal fuss, I don't think it'll be worth their time.

3. LOL at how they say pilots train on Yak first then onto jets. I thought this was a digital COMBAT simulator, not a digital TRAINING simulator.

4. If Burning Bridges cannot learn a combat aircraft since 2004, what magic does the Yak bring that will suddenly make everything click in his mind and he becomes a Sierra Hotel pilot?

5. The last post by John.... if people just want to fly around and learn aircraft, again, XP11 and P3D. Eat your heart out guys. Worldwide coverage, stupid number of aircraft to try out, and jump onto VATSIM or the like and even do real-world comms too!



The facepalm just amazes me.


- Ice
#4409934 - 03/10/18 12:23 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice

The facepalm just amazes me.


I agree with all 5 points raised....Plus x-plane 11 is still cheaper than what the F-18C is when it is released, and still cheaper than the latest module is, that being the Harrier.

Ranting by those supporters using "prop planes" before venturing into "jets" is seriously a BS excuse to get GA and CA into the mix.

Oh I can't wait for the campaigns....it will be FSX type "drop bombs on snow caps to create avalanches for the skiers" in an R22 or pilot transfers to cargo ships so they can dock at Sochi based around the civilian oil rig campaign in the MI-8

#4409936 - 03/10/18 12:34 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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I just realized --- XP11 and P3D are leagues more "modular" than DCS ever was! Do you see Laminar releasing a patch to accomodate the new aircraft Carenado has released? Do you see them releasing a patch when a new weather module is released? Suck on that, ED!

biggrin biggrin biggrin




- Ice
#4409979 - 03/10/18 10:20 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
I just realized --- XP11 and P3D are leagues more "modular" than DCS ever was! Do you see Laminar releasing a patch to accomodate the new aircraft Carenado has released? Do you see them releasing a patch when a new weather module is released? Suck on that, ED!

biggrin biggrin biggrin





The bright side is that this whole thing is gonna blow in their hands***. It is obvious that sooner or later they will be forced to make DCS engine a true modular system.......however, knowing ED it will probably lead to a new development branch that will again decimate development progress pace.


***They are going to have too much aircraft that the idea of patching each aircraft will become near impossible

#4409982 - 03/10/18 11:03 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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So over it. The LAST straw. Not. One. More. Penny. I will be dead and buried before they get their feces together.


i5-4460@3.2ghz, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte GTX1050Ti 4GB, 2TB HDD, 500GB SDD
#4409998 - 03/11/18 01:55 AM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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Winfield Offline
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GA\CA is only a matter of time before it becomes reality within DCS. Once the Commercial Airlines begin to roll out they can be posted on the Weekend not so Specials
Nineliner stated that he will be working on giving Combined arms a campaign and some much needed love. Here is a suggestion, implement playable passengers in a Cessna 172, In multiplayer a pilot can fly and the human can join as a passenger and aim out the window with an M-16 and shoot down F-15's
Happy days.

The video even has a touch of 'merican designed metal at the 13 second mark.



#4410002 - 03/11/18 03:02 AM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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How many folk over on the ED fan pages have used the "Shut up and Take my money" gif? How many folk over there have expressed "first day buy for me" in regards to this particular facepalm?
All the time 2.5 was turning into a fiasco ED have been busy elsewhere. Go figure
Edit
I guess when you cant fix the combat part of digital combat simulator this is the next logical step.

Last edited by Johnny_Redd; 03/11/18 03:40 AM.

DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4410024 - 03/11/18 08:30 AM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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Winfield Offline
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Here is a suggestion, implement playable passengers in a Cessna 172, In multiplayer a pilot can fly and the human can join as a passenger and aim out the window with an M-16 and shoot down F-15's
Happy days.


Further to this statement, I have 'borrowed' some of the source code that is causing the memory leak in 2.5OB, it is as follows.

Current models of the PA-18 can also be modified with the droop tip. This modification actually adds 4 more
feet of usable wing and redirects the airflow in the wing tip area. Aircraft with this modification can safely fly
more slowly than aircraft without it

The PA-18 can be modified to provide a shooting window for the gunner. This window normally swings open
out of the way and allows adequate shooting room without the danger of hitting say parts of the aircraft

The PA-18 has good visibility and an overhead skylight which is essential for successful ADC operations. The
seats are modified and raised to a position so the pilot can look out of the skylight and keep track of target animals
while turning. The rear seat is also raised to provide the gunner a proper angle of fire.
The automatic nagger has become a standard item on aircraft used for aerial hunting. The flags are made of
brightly colored paper about 16 feet in length. They are dropped from the aircraft by pressing a button on the pilot's
control stick. The flags can easily be seen by both flight and ground crews and are used to mark den sites or
coyotes after they are shot
Flying Operations

The pilot and gunner must work as a team with full confidence in the other's judgement and ability. This
confidence can be gained only by working together and learning from each other on a daily basis. Low level flying
operations leave little room for error and a mistake made by either tire pilot or gunner can result in an accident In
recent years, the USFWS has adopted a safety training program for both pilots and gunners involved in low level
flying operations.

Source

Now we just have to wait and see if VEAO\Blue Sky Fail Simulations can (even this request would be a breakthrough for that failed developer) get a Piper Cub AFM right in Dovetails Flight Sim World. Just maybe they will release it for DCS World with human passengers and rifles so we can shoot down Hornets, Tomcats and the like.

All we need is Mexico map modeled and Texas, then Apache600 can make a campaign running drugs into the USA whilst dodging AH-1's, Huey's and fighter jets.....Ah a campaign that would actually be worth buying. A multiplayer\multicrew Dynamic campaign where anything is possible,

Mind you, I expect 15% of sales for the Piper idea and included campaign from both Apache600 (person behind the museum relic campaign) and the Piper Cub from VEAFail and a further 50% commission on sales for the idea of implementing Mexico and Texas from ED\TFC\Belsimtek

#4410034 - 03/11/18 11:52 AM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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How long do you think before DCS ASK 21 with super-detailed real-world avionics? Should only take them a couple of years to make this smile


- Ice
#4410051 - 03/11/18 03:17 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
I have been following the YAK-52 since it was 1st announced. Not an aircraft I would buy any time soon, however it looks as though confirmation from ED's community manager and it's 'official testers that the platform being DCS world is already looking to expand into General Aviation and Commercial aviation
No doubt this expansion will include Carenado, FlyJsim and many other aircraft 3rd party developers contracted to release civilian aircraft into the not so 'combat simulator'

Now this is 'breaking news' in the flight sim world.


I haven't been following it and I did not read about this in any other forum - this is a bold move.

The civilian flight sim community is where I mostly have been these past 10 years and one thing I learned is how deeply it is attached to its flight sims , so much so, that there is still a big market for FS2004 and FSX products not to mention P3D v2 & v3, people invested huge amounts of money on them and are very reluctant to update to newer versions of it ( like in : P3D v3 32bits to P3D v4 64bits) and much less to switch from one platform to another (FS2004 to FSX), even when these are rather painless updates ( FSX to P3D v2/3).

Lockheed Martin P3D is IMO the benchmark , X-Plane is not far behind.

so moving into this market is not exactly easy, and there is another trend that makes it even harder and is a trend that I find worrying : some of the leading developers are switching to real world flight sim based training using the P3D platform and leaving the consumer market, which is what P3D is after all being developed for.

also P3D/FSX allows complete freedom and Independence to 3rd party developers.

so moving to Civilian Flight simulation is not something to be taken lightly, but considering that this particular developer has already released a trainer and has others in the pipeline, it is something that they had in mind for some time and it does indeed leverage the natural affinity of DCS as a learning tool.

#4410063 - 03/11/18 04:02 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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1. People who are serious about civilian flight sims have sunk thousands of £££ into add ons and they naturally are hesitant to move to a different platform. Heck, moving from FSX to P3D may even encounter some resistance if their favorite mods or aircraft do not work or does not have a P3D version. How easy do you think it will be getting them to move to DCS?

2. People who are serious about civilian flight sims also participate in VATSIM or the like, adding real-world comms to their experience. They also probably have a lot of AI scripts for civilian flights to make their favorite routes as busy as it is IRL. If there's an Emirates flight coming in at 2pm, they'd probably have that scripted into their sim. What does ED have in terms of comms and AI commercial flight assets?

3. How many civvie flight sim enthusiasts really, really, REALLY want to fly only in Georgia/Nevada/SoH? The limited area of DCS is a serious factor to consider.


IMHO, ED will only attract a few curious civilian simmers, and that's it. A few combat simmers will try out a few GA aircraft and would either shift to the platforms that give a proper GA experience or would simply return to their pew-pew. They (ED) are already spreading themselves too thin with their current selection of aircraft. Instead of putting in more content for already-established modules, do we really need to branch out into yet another area of flight? Especially an area that is covered very, very, very well by big civvie flight sims?


- Ice
#4410082 - 03/11/18 06:26 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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anyhow, I am sure whatever comes out of this, it will be a good few years from now before we can see a DCS MH152 Broussard being released.

#4410083 - 03/11/18 06:50 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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"I've got a feeling the DCS market is far smaller than that of XP11/P3D"

I don't think there is even any question about that. I'm sure it is. And that's probably what this is all about, more than anything else. Attracting some of those people over to DCS. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they test the waters with a small airliner, a metroliner or something, to see if that brings in some of the tubeliner crowd.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4410086 - 03/11/18 07:29 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
I don't think there is even any question about that. I'm sure it is. And that's probably what this is all about, more than anything else. Attracting some of those people over to DCS. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they test the waters with a small airliner, a metroliner or something, to see if that brings in some of the tubeliner crowd.

Well, I didn't have any numbers to back it up smile

As to attracting other people, I'm thinking there's not enough space in the DCS maps for an airliner to get to cruising altitude and then back down. Might have better luck with smaller GA aircraft that fly IFR - "I follow roads!" Anyway, I don't think branching out is a good idea. Know your core market and hit the bullseye. I guess ED doesn't know its core market as it's struggling with the "combat" part of its name? biggrin

I think as it is, XP11 has a better chances of morphing into a combat sim than DCS has of morphing into a civvie flight sim.


- Ice
#4410092 - 03/11/18 08:19 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
"I've got a feeling the DCS market is far smaller than that of XP11/P3D"

I don't think there is even any question about that. I'm sure it is. And that's probably what this is all about, more than anything else. Attracting some of those people over to DCS. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they test the waters with a small airliner, a metroliner or something, to see if that brings in some of the tubeliner crowd.


could work the other way round and those that fly only combat sims discover, like I did , the pleasures of flying a civilian flight sim and move to P3D for good biggrin


Originally Posted by - Ice
As to attracting other people, I'm thinking there's not enough space in the DCS maps for an airliner to get to cruising altitude and then back down


I don't believe that that is what this is all about - if all you want to is to create a training aid for a civilian aircraft the map that comes with DCS is more than adequate.

this civilian discussion is IMO, is much more about providing developers that already have some knowledge of DCS coding with the opportunity of offering the civilian training market another option, that is all, going to the expense of say, 10 years of development to recreate a modern equivalent of FSX is a waste of time.

you guys are not going to see DCS morphing in a civilian flight sim any time soon.



#4410098 - 03/11/18 08:42 PM Re: DCS: YAK-52 & GA\CA thread [Re: Winfield]  
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"10 years of development to recreate a modern equivalent of FSX is a waste of time."

And that, ultimately, is the most disappointing aspect of the whole thing. What it could have been, and probably should have been, by now.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

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