Agree with Tom - DCS isn't going to morph into a Civil FS anytime soon. Sure it's going to have a few "non military" (remembering of course that the YAK is technically a warbird). Personally I think a few curious DCS people will pick it up and play around with it but it's really just those that want to remain within the same ecosystem of DCS rather than attracting those outside of it (IMHO).

I only talked about airliners since it was mentioned Why create a training aid for civvie aircraft in yet ANOTHER sim when it already exists in other sims with better after-training capabilities?



Does the civilian training market really need another option?



I hope so, but the rabid fans seem to think differently They struggle enough with what's on their plate at the moment....

no - but they are not going to create a new one, but use what they have to sell it as a civil flight sim platform



does not matter for the developer of a particular model - they are never going to be available outside its consumers



because those developing them are already used to the code - a P3D/FSX developer already has a market and the experience with the SDK as well as their own tools, those people would need to have a very good reason to spend years learning the DCS code all the while missing precious time and resources that they could employ to earn money doing something they already know



very few ...

I sent David an e-mail back in 2013 inquiring as to when IRIS was going to begin development of aircraft released for FSX. I asked for a time frame as it was publicly announced developers had left IRIS
and moved into other roles with 3rd party developers in DCS world (Namely Razbam\M2M). There was no press release on ED's behalf but there was at the time facebook posts from IRIS regarding development for DCS world.

This is his response dated 02/09/2013 I have withheld my real name as it was sent from my personal e-mail account.

IRIS - David Love-Brice <david@irissimulations.com.au>
Mon 2/09/2013, 8:40 AM

Dear (name withheld),

Thank you for your concern, however the developers you mention who have chosen to move on from our team here at IRIS had anything to do with our DCS Development.

Please rest assured, that our DCS Development is on schedule and proceeding as planned.

Kind Regards


David Love-Brice
Proprietor
IRIS Flight Simulation Software | IRIS Development Studios | IRIS Combat Simulations
Online: w: irissimulations [http://x.co/issaus] | f: facebook [http://x.co/issifb] |
Support: Knowledge Base http://x.co/issskb | Support Tickets http://x.co/isscst | support@irissimulations.com.au | skype: irissimulations-support |
IRIS Flight Simulation Software is a registered Australian Business - ABN: 54 044 292 336 | Also known as: ISS | IDS | ICS | IRIS
Phone: +61 (0)427 147038


It is fact that there has been no development news from IRIS regarding releases for DCS world for many years. Perhaps you are correct that the fan base for P3d\FSX is larger than DCS for General aviation but hypothetically if the maps improve and the so called 'world' is eventually mapped. Surely it is plausible that developers will begin to release GA\CA aircraft on this platform. After all, it is DCS world, not DCS Nevada, DCS Caucus or DCS Straight of Hormuz. It will happen....it is only a matter of time.

in my opinion, t is either you do P3D/FSX or you do DCS - and that is because most developers don't have the resources to do both, the code is completely different and the learning curve steep, we are talking of many years before anyone can be proficient.

P3D/FSX is a very competitive market were you are in competition with dozens of other developers, if you stop releasing new products you are out - so a P3D/FSX developer would have to become an ex-P3D/FSX developer for a while ... like Razbam.

and I don't see why a developer would want to leave a huge market like P3D v3/P3D v4/FSX/FS2004/FSX-Steam and X-Plane and move to a military flght sim were the bulk of its consumers would never buy their products, it is like being a niche player in a niche market.

there is a huge, and I mean incredibly huge installed base and ecosystem already in place - leaving it , it is a difficult decision.

Funny as,

However I can not wait to tow you with an F-15C beyond safe release speeds and test the structural integratory of the ASK-21 and see if the damage model is correct. Will the wings actually break off before 760 mph or during the breaking of the sound barrier at approx 761-769 mph or after 770 mph.

Even if the ASK-21 actually makes it past the sound barrier with no wings, I am curious to see if the aircraft is capable of withstanding the jet wash and the rivets are still intact (I mention rivets as it was a selling point on the MIG-21 that the rivets were of correct number) can withstand the forces and hold the sheet metal in place.

For the uninformed (new guys), revert back to the VEAFAIL hawk AFM\Damage model announcement here in SimHQ's very own forums.

Hence why I can not wait to take Ice up for a lap or few. If ED\TFC\Belsimtek are going to release aircraft and boast AFM standards, Ice has a point with the ASK-21, The official testers need to test structural integratory of all aircraft instead of people such as myself to see if the released module is actually true to form or just a guess as to what would happen in a real world situation if it was pushed beyond it's limits.

Yes your statement may be correct, however look at it from a business perspective. Fast forward 1 or 2 years and just say ED\TFC\Belsimtek have their Feces together (and fix the memory leak). In order to fund further development away from the boring campaign releases which has been mentioned numerous times in these forums. If we take campaigns out of the equation, GA\CA would bring in far more dollars for ED\TFC\Belsimtek than any campaign would bring in. Getting GA\CA developers on board would not only bring in bigger sale % for ED\TFC\Belsimtek but expand the flight sim enthusiasts away from FSX\P3d\X-plane.

Don't get me wrong, It is not a path I would choose. A C-185, Barron 58 and the like is not something I would invest in for DCS but ED\TFC\Belsimtek must surely be looking at the idea with some depth in order to fund the development it would take to release maps to cover the entire 'world'. DCS\TFC\Belsimtek are surely not going to get these funds from the sale of the hornet alone. Nor will DCS\TFC\Belsimtek get the funds from the sale of copious amounts of campaign sales at $10 a pop.

The bigger picture is, it is after all 'DCS World' and the development time is probably 10-20 years from now. The US Military are not going anywhere. The military contracts are not going anywhere, the development outlook is surely past mine and wags lifetime.

it could be possible that Dovetail might go bust and ED buy the rights, or perhaps an agreement is struck with General Dynamics P3d etc etc. Money talks in the simulation world.....ED\TFC\Belsimtek may actually be negotiating with developers already out there for a joint venture\merger IMO

Either way, Campaigns won't fund the maps alone to cover development of the so called 'world'

one cannot under-estimate how attached people are to their flight sims

there are guys that still fly FS2004

who would not buy FSX-Steam because it is sold by ... Steam

people who would not stop flying FSX for P3D

P3D v3 people who would not abandon their add ons for P3D v4 (I did)

I understand that , you invest time and money and don't want to change... I understand that as I cannot be too long away from P3D, I really enjoy flying over vast maps and exploring it ...

oh - back to DCS - it is going to be interesting to see how it will develop, but it may be a few years wait before you guys have the opportunity to fly a 737-8 into Gaudata Airport ... although I don't know if the runway can handle it

^^ This

Are you in possession of a time machine or some anti-aging device you're keeping from us??



Make sure you wear your nappies little girl because you know it's "fight's on!!!" as soon as that tow rope is released!




1. Look at it from the GA dev's perspective. How much work and learning needs to be done before a GA plane can be built and tested and released in DCS versus how much income is it expected to make? Even if you consider the lowly C150/152/172, a relatively simple aircraft and avionics data is widely available. Even if you consider it will be quick to learn ED code. What sales figures do you think you'll get for a Cessna in DCSW?

2. It'll take more than just GA aircraft to take civvie simmers away from their sim-of-choice. You'll have to offer something better. What does DCSW have in terms of GA comms? Civilian navigation systems? Not to mention the limited map area?

3. Now look at it from a civvie simmer's perspective. You have P3D which cost you US$60 for the software, maybe a few grand in $$$ in GA aircraft, airports, sky textures, etc. Give all that up to fly a few GA aircraft in a limited map with limited GA support? Or would you just load up a Georgia map in P3D and fly there?

The thing is --- combat aircraft simulation and civilian aircraft simulation are two very different things and both camps would do well to concentrate on their main market. FSX/P3D and XP11 are doing this very well. ED can't even get it's own sh!t together and already it's eyeing what someone else has on their plate? Please.

As I said before, it'll probably be easier for GA sims to add a few lines of code for a combat-lite feature. I know XP11 has just added some combat features on its lineup, but I'm new to XP11 so not sure how far in this goes, but just look at how people hacked FSX for FSX@war. Now imagine if you actually had dev support for that.



Doesn't matter because I don't think FSW and DCSW can mesh without major code re-writes, so even if ED gets the rights, it'll still be major work for them.



And if so, what makes you think ED is the one doing the buying?

If they absolutely MUST put GA airplanes in DCS, the smart way to do it would be to build models that can perform double-duty as civilian or combat a/c. The Cessna 337. The "Oscar Deuce" as they used to call it. Served as an FAC in Viet-Nam. And for many years afterwards. With rockets under the wings you can have guys marking targets for the fast movers. Might actually be fun! And the skin makers (Tom, you there?) can do a few pretty civilian paint schemes for whoever wants to just fly around looking at the scenery.
I suppose a KC-10 might even be a viable possibilty. Some people might actually like circling around waiting for F-15's to hook up to them (Not me, but who knows). Then Tom could do a nice American airlines paint job for it.
The Piper Cub might even work! It could be used over the Normandy map as an L-4. With a yellow paint job it's a Cub.
Hey, I'm just trying to think outside the box here. I'm just saying that there are better ways to do it if that's the way they want to go.

Call me crazy but I would love flying NOE avoiding the baddies to deliver cargo and troops in a C130.

And there's the C-130 Spectre Gunship version, if you want to kill something with it. Lots of somethings!

If this module comes out, I have no interest in being the pilot!!

Now, who wouldn't want to fly a huge, slow, monster of an airplane on a battlefield filled with SAMs and MiGs? You'd have the most thrilling three minutes you've ever had in a game.

There is no way FSW and DCSW would mesh with out re-writing all of the code if that happened. If Dovetail folded, bought out etc etc I would be looking at the developers jumping ship to work for ED on the DCSW project.





Fair point you raise Ice, Dovetail would surely have more of a 'cult' following with previous projects. Having Dovetail look at a takeover bid for ED\TFC\Belsimtek may happen but that is not going to take place any time soon. Not when there is a joint venture between USA and Russia in this project.

My comments and questions in this thread are my personal thoughts and opinions on the subject matter that ED\TFC\Belsimtek are not going to finish the so called world when when it takes 5- years to develop aircraft let alone leave many unfinished before moving on to the next one. GA\CA and further outside experienced developers
who already have completed aircraft in other sims such as p3d\FSX etc would only boost the development time, fund more positions within ED\TFC\Belsimtek to complete maps and get the world completed.

Yet we see ED employing a 'Community Manager' to monitor forum posts when that money could be better spent employing an experienced 3d artist like Tom_Weiss here at SimHQ who has a passion for the Sim community to work on projects like maps, or other aircraft.
For SixLiner to give up his day job at the printing press to work full time at ED, Wags must have made a substantial offer to go for an enthusiast of banning members, locking topics, moving threads to being paid a full time wage rather an enthusiast who has a passion and something useful to offer ED