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#4407361 - 02/25/18 04:44 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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One last aspect of motherboards and distinction between them: (This is where the secret codenames are, unfortunately, appropriate)

For a long time now, Intel has assigned codenames to it's CPUs and (more specifically) to the "chipset" which supports a given CPU. If you look at a motherboard you'll see a flat, square-ish plate (usually) under the end of your GPU that hangs out opposite the bracket in the back. That plate is actually there to help pull heat off a chip that lives under it. That chip is, essentially, the "chipset". Why's it called a 'set'? Because, back in the day, there were actually two - if you see an older board, there's another one, generally over between the GPU and the CPU itself. These were called the "north bridge" (nearest CPU) and "south bridge" (nearest end of GPU slot). Each one had it's functions, and together they were the set of chips needed to support a CPU - hence, chipset.

Early on, there was usually only one chipset for each socket that came out. And usually, the socket changed with each CPU generation, as did the motherboard.

Nowadays, it's not that way any more. First, Intel started putting a lot of the guts of the north bridge - most notably, the memory controller - into the CPU itself. So, chipset now basically is what's left, mostly the south bridge chip.

Then, they started to span several generations of CPUs across (what seems like) the same socket. After all, nothing says you have to have a different socket just because you have a different chip. Well, sort of.

The last three generations - that is, 6000, 7000, and 8000 CPUs have all been considered socket 1151 boards. Technically, the sockets are not exactly the same, and therefore the CPUs are not interchangeable. The feature of a motherboard that determines what exact series CPUs it can work with is the chipset, and (even though they're not the actual part numbers or names), Intel uses the "codenames" to identify chipsets.

So, then, as above: Skylake = 6000-series CPU/100-series chipset; Kaby Lake = 7000 series CPU/200-series chipset; Coffee Lake = 8000-series CPU/300 series chipset.

Beyond that, there are usually variants of the chipset series for business, consumers, etc. For example, the 100-series includes three business variants (Q170, Q150, B150); and three consumer variants (Z170, H170, and H110). Business variants focus on features that matter in business environments, like security and long-term availability, where the consumer variants focus on more performance and flexibility features, overclocking ability and the total number of PCIe lanes. Q and B variants are for business platforms, H and Z for consumers. Don't worry about the business variants, just consider the Z and H types - Z for high-performance, H for basic features. Same goes for the 200-series (Z270, H270, Q270, Q250, B250). It happens there are no variants (yet, anyway) for the 300-series, just Z370. Your guess is good as mine as to why.

If you're watching, those last two bits - number of PCI lanes and overclocking - are generally what make all the difference to us as "enthusiasts", and also (like the other features I've described above) what determines cost of a given motherboard. Fewer PCIe slots/lanes, no overclocking support = least cost. Maximum number of PCIe slots/lanes, full overclocking support = highest cost. So make sure you get the features you want, but don't pay for those you won't use. If you don't overclock and never intend to use more than one graphics card, you might be better off not spending a ton on a top-end Z370 motherboard.

For all this chipset nonsense, there are two very good references - and very brief, too: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z270-H270-Q270-Q250-B250---What-is-the-Difference-876/ (for the 200-series)

and

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-Q150-Q170---What-is-the-Difference-635/ (for the 100-series)

(TBC)

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/25/18 04:54 PM.
#4407362 - 02/25/18 04:45 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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No, no...liking all the details. Kind of a class in hardware that I desperately needed. I can swap hardware like a pro - once I know what hardware to use.

And speaking of swapping thanks for the case idea Stache. Hard to tell from pictures but is it easy for us with “hands of ham” to reach in there and hook/unhook cables, etc? My current case is what I think is called a “mini-tower” or “mid-tower” or something. It’s a step down in size from my last CP. Didn’t really think about it when I bought it but a lesson learned. Kind of hard to reach in there and work plus my 970 barely fits and that’s no exaggeration. Thought I was gonna have to do some case cutting/bending when I first got it.

#4407363 - 02/25/18 04:46 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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You are quick kksnowbear - posted at the same time as I.
Thanks!

#4407375 - 02/25/18 05:52 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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So, lemme try to summarize all this:

- Start with CPU brand (and therefore, entire build): AMD or Intel? AMD cheaper, Intel generally higher performing. Both have great offerings, to be sure.

- Then look at performance level of CPU: For Intel, i5 is cheaper, i7 is more powerful. (i3 really not up to snuff for gaming, i9 costs crazy starting ~$1000) Clock speed within each type will drive cost. Variants available at additional cost (like unlocked K versions for overclocking, or extreme X versions for those with money trees *lol*)

- Features needed, determined by motherboard chipset, model and (of course) cost: In our Intel example, stick with "H" (basic) or "Z" (performance) chipsets. Consider overclocking ability, multi-GPU support, USB 3.0, 3.1 (and how many at front/rear panel), number of PCIe slots and number of lanes each slot, plus total number PCIe lanes; storage options (NVMe; M.2 slot). Standard features these days should include at least a couple USB 3 ports, one PCIe 3.0 x16 slot for a GPU, gigabit speed ethernet, and 7.1 audio on-board.

- Power supply: Determine wattage based on load of GPU(s)+motherboard, etc; ensure proper number/type connectors. Pay for quality, and allow some 'overhead' in capacity. Consider efficiency levels to use less power/generate less heat. Make sure cable lengths are appropriate to your chassis.

Now, I do hope everyone realizes this was written 'on the fly' and without any real references being used. This is a metric ton to cover in a few pages and there's very little way to provide the level of information one absorbs by having studied something for 30 years in a few paragraphs.

Best thing to do is to study and start looking around, writing down any questions that come up. Post them, and I am sure there will be answers.

I have to get ready for church, we go in the evening because my son works nights, but I do welcome any questions. BTW, if there are any AMD folks - don't be put out if we used Intel examples. I have built AMD stuff too, so if there's interest I can do that. But a lot of this stuff is the same between both Intel and AMD.

Thanks smile

#4407376 - 02/25/18 05:53 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Duke, you just reminded me...I gotta circle back and edit the chassis blurb to mention about GPU fit smile

Thanks!

#4407389 - 02/25/18 06:18 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Glad I could contribute something semi-intelligent to the conversation!

#4407395 - 02/25/18 06:38 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
No, no...liking all the details. Kind of a class in hardware that I desperately needed. I can swap hardware like a pro - once I know what hardware to use.

And speaking of swapping thanks for the case idea Stache. Hard to tell from pictures but is it easy for us with “hands of ham” to reach in there and hook/unhook cables, etc? My current case is what I think is called a “mini-tower” or “mid-tower” or something. It’s a step down in size from my last CP. Didn’t really think about it when I bought it but a lesson learned. Kind of hard to reach in there and work plus my 970 barely fits and that’s no exaggeration. Thought I was gonna have to do some case cutting/bending when I first got it.


Well all cases are tight once they get loaded.
I have a 980TI

Some pictures to let you gauge.

Out of the Box
[Linked Image]

With Mother Board Tray removed.
[Linked Image]

Some wiring in place
[Linked Image]

Some components installed
[Linked Image]

Attached Files DSCF8028 (Medium).JPGDSCF8038 (Medium).JPGDSCF8044 (Medium).JPGDSCF8045 (Medium).JPG
Last edited by Stache; 02/25/18 06:42 PM.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Saitek Pro Flight Pedals & Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5; home grown cockpit, � la RogerDodger.net
#4407397 - 02/25/18 06:47 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Pictures are always tricky (but thanks!) but it does appear to be easy to work with.

#4407465 - 02/26/18 12:36 AM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Hey... in last pic I spy a Pinch Scotch bottle with a ship inside! Any close-ups? Sorry for hijack.

#4407684 - 02/26/18 11:55 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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If I may have a little “whine” with my cheese if this really takes any more then a week - let alone 3 weeks - this will definitely be my last bit of business with the Dell company. In this day and age I have never ordered anything, and I mean anything, that has taken more then 2 or 3 days to arrive.

Okay. Feel slightly better. FWIW it still shows as “Not having shipped” though even their website admits tracking info is sometimes never updated. Why that is with all the package tracking tech in place is another story I suppose.

#4407699 - 02/27/18 12:58 AM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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DIH, my solution to avoid the problem such as you're facing is to have 2 systems at all times. Even if my main rig fails, I always have another one to fall back on. Just dust it off and away you go. It will not run as well as the main one - because it's my previous comp, but I will not miss a second of WOFFing. Lesson learned. Good luck and hope the order gets there soon.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4407757 - 02/27/18 10:35 AM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Ironically I just threw my old (but working) system away a couple of months ago but time flies.
If my “new” system is 3-4 years old the other must have been 7 or 8 and computers age in dog years.
Ah well. Just have to learn some patience it’s just that now, because of the weather and other factors, it would be prime WOFF time.

EDIT: Looks like Dell Is in the 21st century. Just got a text, and email, that the board has shipped. Unless it’s coming by mule train it should be here in a couple days. Hopefully it will be a rainy weekend.

#4408393 - 03/02/18 02:10 AM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Hopefully, you must be a really patient person. I could never wait so long............................

#4408443 - 03/02/18 11:47 AM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Hoping we hear from Duke today that he's gotten his board and is back up & running...good luck mate smile

#4408501 - 03/02/18 03:37 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Board arrived yesterday (per UPS website) but, of course, I am out of town.
Should be back tonight for install today or certainly tomorrow.
Took a week to get here from time of order.

#4408532 - 03/02/18 05:23 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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popcorn

We'll be waiting, with bated breath...and crossed fingers & toes smile

I almost really want to say that your motherboard just failed, and nothing has happened to your CPU. Reason is that, a motherboard is loaded with all sorts of components & therefore has lots to go wrong - they are especially given to bad capacitors and voltage regulators (VRMs) causing this kind of issue. These are a few of the electronic components that, in a manner of speaking, can sit and destroy themselves over time just doing what they do, because of heat. Doesn't even have to be excessive heat. This is one reason the industry started using "solid" caps, which has helped a lot, but there's still failure.

CPUs on the other hand, are essentially one component (laying aside that there are factually millions of junction devices inside a CPU, for the sake of this discussion, that is).

So, that's my officially unofficial prognostication biggrin

In any event, hopefully you swap that board and it's "pull chocks" for you!

#4408585 - 03/02/18 08:08 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Just arrived home. Probably won’t be able to install till early tomorrow morning but, on a high note, I’ll be able to work without interruptions. Unless the family plans on going somewhere tonight without me - probably not though.

EDIT: Nope. Looks like they can’t live without me. Definitely tomoroow morning.

Last edited by DukeIronHand; 03/02/18 09:00 PM.
#4408647 - 03/03/18 12:36 AM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Success!!
After catching up (only gone a day and a half) and family dinner I forgot it was Friday and movie night.
So, while all were engrossed with some movie I would have fallen asleep to anyway, I snuck out and installed the brand new motherboard. Fired her up on a quick test of everything and all is working.
Part swapping expert I am. Thanks to everyone for the help.

#4408660 - 03/03/18 03:03 AM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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WoooHooo! dancinfools

Glad to hear you got it done. Apparently you're not so ham-fisted after all, huh?

Now, off to the sky with ya (and get to figurin' about your upgrade!) biggrin

#4408693 - 03/03/18 01:32 PM Re: OT: Computer trouble... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Congrats Duke, woohoo!

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