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#4405272 - 02/15/18 12:33 PM Re: So, we are f**ked for new GFX cards because of Bitcoin? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
The miner is does not have any control over pricing or over supply and demand, so why target the miner for hate?
...
And why would nVidia/AMD do that?


1. Because the greed of the miners to make extra money is preventing people from enjoying their non-greedy hobby. They are taking a product designed to entertain people, turn it into cash-making, and by doing so prevent the original audience from using the product for the original purpose.

Imagine all the gasoline in your area gets mass-bought out by cab companies. You'd not be able to afford your own daily drive anymore, but the cab companies will still make money.

2. Again, see my above example: If I were to use my private internet line to make money, and the other apartments in the same building had less available bandwidth for them, the ISP would ask me to move to a "professional" product. If this was following the normal IT market then there would be "mining cards" and "gaming cards" and the mining cards would cost more, come with a different warranty and support etc.

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#4405317 - 02/15/18 06:41 PM Re: So, we are f**ked for new GFX cards because of Bitcoin? [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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1. Or you could hate on the gas companies for not being able to keep up demand? If you go to your local grocers and can't buy any garlic because the local restaurant bought a big batch and now you can't cook your favorite recipe, do you hate on the restaurant? You go to your car dealer hoping to pick up the latest model of their car and find out that there's a big backlog of orders and the price has gone up because the local cab company has put a big order in, do you hate on that cab company?

Don't get me wrong, I think I can see your point, but what I don't understand is why target the miner for hate? Their hobby is mining, which is in direct competition to our hobby, but I can't see why anger and hatred ensues. What makes gamers more entitled to the GPUs over miners? What makes you more entitled than the restaurant or the cab company to garlic/cars?

2. No, what you're asking is that the ISP would cut off bandwidth to the miners since they're interfering with your use of the internet. These guys buy 5-11 more GPUs than you do, so I think the analogy is that they paid more than you did for the use of internet. Why would the ISP do anything to compromise THAT customer base?

As for mining cards and gaming cards, apparently, some company did this; can't remember if AMD or nVidia, but the mining card cost a tad more, had no video output, had a 3-month warranty, and didn't really perform better (IIRC, it was worse!) than the consumer-grade GPU. So why would a miner buy an item that had limited resale value (no video output), had limited warranty (3 month vs. 2-3 years), didn't perform better, and cost more?


I see what you're complaining about..... but put pretend you were a miner for a moment and see if the gamer's arguments make sense.


- Ice
#4405409 - 02/16/18 03:26 AM Re: So, we are f**ked for new GFX cards because of Bitcoin? [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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This could be a good thing, if gpu manufacturers can start building "mining cards" to fill a niche and help keep them competitive. Who knows, maybe a new manufacturer will stray into the GPU market based on demand...either way it's most likely a temporary flux that will even back out eventually. GPU prices have actually been dropping since the holidays, and a 1060 can now be found close to MSRP.

#4405418 - 02/16/18 07:01 AM Re: So, we are f**ked for new GFX cards because of Bitcoin? [Re: JoeyJoJo]  
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That's probably because 1060s aren't very good at mining? Just guessing. Also noted that my favorite online store always seems to have stock of blower-style cards and it's the 2- or 3-fan cards that are out of stock, so maybe miners have a preference of cooler types? I know I'd never go for a blower-style design if I can help it!

As for mining cards, check out 5:20 onwards





So basically, mining cards are already available but there doesn't seem to be much advantage to them and mostly disadvantages, so the drought of gaming GPUs continues. Prices falling may be due to the fact that crypto currency hasn't been doing so well since December?


- Ice
#4405945 - 02/18/18 07:31 PM Re: So, we are f**ked for new GFX cards because of Bitcoin? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Don't get me wrong, I think I can see your point, but what I don't understand is why target the miner for hate? Their hobby is mining, which is in direct competition to our hobby, but I can't see why anger and hatred ensues. What makes gamers more entitled to the GPUs over miners? What makes you more entitled than the restaurant or the cab company to garlic/cars?


Sorry Ice, late reply, but I thought it was only respectful to not leave you hanging wink

We may have found the core difference here between our viewpoints: For me mining is not a hobby, it's a business. Gaming is a hobby. I simply dislike any and all situations where a business moves into a hobbyst environment and forces the hobbysts out there by the power of their increased spending possibilities.
That's the reason, for example, why a lot of nature areas, forrests, lakes etc. in Austria can't be bought by businesses (or if so, must remain open to the public). The same how in certain countries seaside beaches must have public entrances no matter how many hotels build there.

#4406087 - 02/19/18 08:46 AM Re: So, we are f**ked for new GFX cards because of Bitcoin? [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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I see.... I think your hobby miner is not the guy you should be worried about and definitely not the guy you should be hating on. I think there is a distinction between hobby miners and business miners. Your hobby miner is the guy with a couple of rigs, but he still works his day job and any money made by mining is an extra side-income. Business miners are those that do it as a job, maybe rent out a shipping container or a warehouse to do the mining. The hobby miner buys from the stores you and I buy from, the business miner has a direct relationship with the local distributor and buys GPUs by the truckload. The hobby miner competes with us gamers to buy GPUs, the business miner doesn't smile

I wonder what the situation would be like if we don't have the current RAM shortage. In my mind, that is one of the strongest influences in the shortage of GPUs --- not enough RAM chips for the demand and the effects cascade out such us RAM prices doubling despite the fact that it isn't as much in demand as GPUs.

What GPU do you have now, RSC? And what were you thinking of buying? I currently have a 980Ti from two years ago and it's still going strong, so no need for me to upgrade it really. I was thinking of getting a 1080Ti, but the increased prices are just silly. There is talk of being able to buy GPUs on the cheap once the next-gen GPUs get released and miners offload their current GPUs.... and there is also talk of being able to buy next-gen GPUs much nearer to MSRP once they're released, but you have to be quick, maybe even pre-order. I think the first scenario is likely, the second one not so much.


- Ice
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