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#4405494 - 02/16/18 05:51 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: DM]  
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Originally Posted by DM
I saw some random Youtube a few months ago that suggested a lot of these incidents are the product of the human psyche projecting archetypes onto something they can't understand. Way back in the distant past those archetypes were spirits & Gods, more recently they were religious experiences and miraculous events, and now we have spaceships & aliens. I might try to dig it up it was interesting.



I think this is an extremely plausible explanation. I'm sure there were plenty of Greeks 2,500 years ago who were utterly convinced that they saw some guy in a chariot pulling the sun across the sky. smile


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#4405552 - 02/16/18 11:53 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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So, since none of you narrow minded humans bothered to give a look at what the guys; who had the finger on the trigger on the nukes for most of the cold war, had to say so now we go to denial.

Watch that video I linked.

These guys are NOT left field Ufonuts.

As far as the little green men thing, ya'll ever heard of DRONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#4405554 - 02/17/18 12:01 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer
So, since none of you narrow minded humans bothered to give a look at what the guys; who had the finger on the trigger on the nukes for most of the cold war, had to say so now we go to denial.


I think that it is quite likely that we have been 'visited'. Too many aspects of ancient civilizations point toward outside intervention. I am just glad that they didn't decide that we were too stupid to be allowed to live.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
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Last edited by cichlidfan; 02/17/18 01:21 AM.

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#4405569 - 02/17/18 01:15 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer
Here's link to the vid I referenced on Amazon Prime....REALLY long.

These are almost all career Air Force guys, some of whom were warned of dire consequences if they ever talked. They all just think it's time for it to be told as they are all getting old.

Amazon video


Interesting...

Do you know the incident that ex-Carrier Strike Commander(2004) and their air crews encountered in their Superhornet years ago? that the info on it is released recently? (December 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDj9ZZQY2kA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCaruUtiPHo

I was like "I want to believe" guy UNTIL I saw his interview.
Now I completely believe that alien is there.

The very sad thing though is they, aliens dont seem to like to have a positive contact with human.

Last edited by nadal; 02/17/18 01:16 AM.
#4405570 - 02/17/18 01:28 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Well, lets face it , if I were an alien I wouldn't want positive contact either.

I think I'd be hard pressed to not go Full Dalek actually.

#4405590 - 02/17/18 03:17 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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(As much as I beiieve that active intelligent life on virtually all planets)

I don't buy that this was anything other than a jet aircraft and terrestial.
Its a UFO in name only, simply because it was never indentified.

This article is simply a cheap way for the author to gain publicity, website hits, etc.

To debunk this already without even viewing the videos (which I can't get to even play - they don't put on youtube probably because then no one would care to visit the cheasy site..lol) is simply easy.

To wit:
  • The most unusual thing simply that
  • Quote
    ..beyond becoming invisible to radar, this aircraft had no transponder broadcasting nor did it ever communicate verbally with air traffic controllers
  • the other parts states
    Quote
    with the same description coming back time and again—that of a white aircraft cruising at around 37,000 feet that is too far away to tell the type or if it has markings of any kind on it.

    and
  • Quote
    The call with the pilot of Southwest 4712 was by far the most interesting. He immediately notes how strange the encounter was and how he has never seen an incident like it in nearly 30 years of flying jets. The pilot noted, "if it was like a Lear (private jet) type airframe I probably would not have seen it this clear. This was a white airplane and it was big. And it was moving at a clip too, because we were keeping pace with it, it was probably moving faster than we were... It was a larger aircraft yeah." He also said they watched the object from Northern California all the way to their descent into Portland.


Frankly all the symptoms of simply a jet at high altitude with transponder turned off. Or a military flight or drone.

As to the 'not on radar' sorry I don't buy that. I think it is more like the civilian air traffic controller just could not find it on his screens ..since no transponder - (you have to lock in what you want to see on those screens by choice AFAIK)
And even if was not [detectable] radar, big deal that's a joke too because over California there are many military aircraft flying all the time on missions and they have both stealth and ECM jammers, etc.

All that aside...

The real reason I don't worry about what this was is I almost certain I have seen this same type aircraft also here in Southern California last year.
..edit; removed details since irrelevant.. the siting you cite years ago not 2018..







Last edited by FsFOOT; 03/12/18 10:23 PM.
#4405602 - 02/17/18 05:27 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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the year was 2004:
the Navy cruiser USS Princeton contacted them by radio about mysterious aircraft.
The ship had been tracking objects that were described as being whitish, 40 feet long and shaped like Tic Tacs that would appear suddenly 80,000 feet up, then descend toward the ocean and hover at 20,000 feet before dropping out of radar range or blasting back up.

The ship and the pilots worked together to track one of the aircraft and when Fraser got close enough to examine one, it peeled away.

Fraser descended in his FA-18 fighter jet and the object ascended to meet him and then it veered suddenly. "It accelerated like nothing I've ever seen, he said an interview with the Times, adding that he was "pretty weirded out." A few minutes later, the object disappeared, he said."] "it had no plumes, wings or rotors and it outran our FA-18's"

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...d-navy-pilot-ufo-20171218-htmlstory.html

**the speed, manueverability and the technology observed by those pilots did not exist in 2004 by any human produced technology**

A former Pentagon official who led a recently revealed government program to research potential UFOs :

"My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone," Luis Elizondo said in an interview on CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront."


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#4405603 - 02/17/18 06:29 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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No doubt it was bigfoot!

#4405606 - 02/17/18 07:33 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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#4405687 - 02/17/18 06:19 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: Forward Observer]  
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#4405751 - 02/18/18 02:49 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Haggart
If humans can put machines on other planets that drive themselves around imagine what a much older and intelligent alien civilization might accomplish ? Still think they can't pay us a visit even with their AI controlled exploration drones they are likely to have ? My friends - we are not alone it only feels that way because of the great distances of the Cosmos



So essentially believing that something exists in the absence of hard empirical evidence.


Isn't that what we call "faith"? wink


maybe faith is related.......if you read the bible only 2 lines of description for querubins and apply modern world view, it sounds a whole lot more like a drone, then a bodyless head with wings that checks on man and go back to god, even seraphin look like rockets.

#4405899 - 02/18/18 04:30 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: DM]  
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Originally Posted by DM
I have a hard time believing that aliens from any other system will be humanoid: bipedal, 5-fingered with recognisable facial features. Evolution just wouldn't provide for such a close match by random chance.


That is assuming life on our planet is random chance. We have no proof for or against this. What we do have is incredibly complex DNA and internal systems within our bodies. While avoiding PWEC, I have a hard time believing life on Earth is simply a "random" occurrence.

#4405947 - 02/18/18 07:38 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
That is assuming life on our planet is random chance. We have no proof for or against this. What we do have is incredibly complex DNA and internal systems within our bodies. While avoiding PWEC, I have a hard time believing life on Earth is simply a "random" occurrence.


Whether it's random or not, and unless you have creationist views (which, yes we should not bring into this because reasons :)) I would say the chances of such similar physical appearance is incredibly unlikely, so unlikely it's virtually impossible. Look at the sheer breadth of shapes even on our own planet that all share common DNA, an octopus or a lobster is about as far from a bipedal appearance as I can imagine yet we share the same beginning.


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4405952 - 02/18/18 07:53 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: DM]  
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Originally Posted by DM
Look at the sheer breadth of shapes even on our own planet that all share common DNA, an octopus or a lobster is about as far from a bipedal appearance as I can imagine yet we share the same beginning.



But from a purely evolutionary standpoint the most successful species on the planet, the only one to take the usage of tools to space, stands erect on 2 feet.

Isn't it reasonable to believe that evolutionary forces alone could lead to that being the case on other planets as well, at least in many if not most cases?

Species with hooves, claws, tentacles etc. aren't likely to develop finely tuned machines, computers etc. Successful species that develop space travel may have more or less hair than we, or scales or feathers etc. instead but I suspect most will still stand erect on two legs. They may have 4 arms however. wink


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#4405979 - 02/18/18 09:42 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
But from a purely evolutionary standpoint the most successful species on the planet, the only one to take the usage of tools to space, stands erect on 2 feet.

Isn't it reasonable to believe that evolutionary forces alone could lead to that being the case on other planets as well, at least in many if not most cases?

Species with hooves, claws, tentacles etc. aren't likely to develop finely tuned machines, computers etc. Successful species that develop space travel may have more or less hair than we, or scales or feathers etc. instead but I suspect most will still stand erect on two legs. They may have 4 arms however. wink


I think there's any number of configurations that could result in a similar outcome, plenty of dinosaurs were bipedal, very basically our shape, but across some 200 million years just remained as animals. A more pertinent detail is opposable thumbs, allowing fine manipulation of basic tools and yes walking on hind legs freed that up. I can imagine an octopus evolving to move across dry land, using any of its limbs as transport, and any of its limbs as fine tool manipulators for example smile all limbs being equally viable for any job they want to put it to. I once read a decent sci-fi book that had alien visitors similar to elephants, but that had 2 prehensile trunk analogs each ending with finer "fingers" for fine manipulation. I think that species that need to evolve to change their way of walking before they can achieve tool use is less likely to evolve tool use as quickly as a species that already has that ability smile Human evolution might be an unusual journey rather than an expected one. Of course, human ancestors were social creatures while octopus (my favourite candidate for future intelligence :)) are generally lone creatures. A strong social cohesion coupled with some ability to manipulate tools seems to me a shortcut to intelligence.


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4405985 - 02/18/18 09:47 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: DM]  
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Originally Posted by DM
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
That is assuming life on our planet is random chance. We have no proof for or against this. What we do have is incredibly complex DNA and internal systems within our bodies. While avoiding PWEC, I have a hard time believing life on Earth is simply a "random" occurrence.


Whether it's random or not, and unless you have creationist views (which, yes we should not bring into this because reasons :)) I would say the chances of such similar physical appearance is incredibly unlikely, so unlikely it's virtually impossible. Look at the sheer breadth of shapes even on our own planet that all share common DNA, an octopus or a lobster is about as far from a bipedal appearance as I can imagine yet we share the same beginning.


Until we can factually point to what our beginning was, I respectfully disagree with it being "same." That aside, as it isn't the point, I too dream of life looking drastically different on alien worlds. With that said, our own world Earth isn't exactly "special" in the grand scheme of things. It is comprised of the same elements that any other world might be, though in different quantities due to how it amalgamated together but Earth...

Has gravity -- holds us to the ground
Has an atmosphere -- protects us from objects coming from space and contributes to our biochemical processes by fostering electron transfer
Has a magnetosphere -- protects us from the solar wind which would otherwise denature our DNA
Orbits a star within a radius and distance that permits surface water -- self explanatory - see fostering electron transfer and biochemical reactions to create sugar within base life such as plants and algae
Is free from interference from other astral bodies such as secondary or tertiary stars that orbit our own
Is rich in elements that fall within the stellar fusion sequence--common elements produced by all stars in order

So if you consider those, and also consider that life as we understand it, chemically, has been theorized to be possible with both carbon and silicon, assuming another being or creature exists through electrochemical processes(due to efficiency, really, as biochemical reactors can self-maintain off the elements around them and are insanely efficient compared with mechanical electron-conduit based schemas), wouldn't those beings encounter the same problems we do?

Aliens beings would need to:

Eat
Reproduce
Defend themselves
Survive

So from that, it is logical to deduce that the above would require interaction with their environment, and barring some bizarre feature that allows levitation(within plausible physics), that means they likely would need:

Sensors to survey their environment such as eyes, ears, taste, touch, smell
Appendages to interact with the terrain
Orifices through which to consume chemical elements and others to expel waste(Newtons third law)
A brain of some sorts to process input and output

So while aliens might be different, I don't think they'll be /that/ different, and likely comprised of similar elements that we are, given the stellar fusion sequence and how chemistry and physics interact. I reason they'll have arms of some sort, likely hands or grasping apparatuses, likely eyes and mouths and legs as wheels are a mechanical mechanism and while efficient going down a hill, are very inefficient going up one.

I can't wait to meet one.

#4405991 - 02/18/18 10:00 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Until we can factually point to what our beginning was, I respectfully disagree with it being "same."


I think our respective residual DNA structures very clearly point to a shared origin. smile but, anyway smile

Quote
So while aliens might be different, I don't think they'll be /that/ different, and likely comprised of similar elements that we are, given the stellar fusion sequence and how chemistry and physics interact. I reason they'll have arms of some sort, likely hands or grasping apparatuses, likely eyes and mouths and legs as wheels are a mechanical mechanism and while efficient going down a hill, are very inefficient going up one.

I can't wait to meet one.


Me too smile although I can't say for sure I wouldn't be freaked out also. I agree there's some assumptions that can be made - creatures where sense organs are not far from their mouths makes a lot of sense. Excretion solutions to be at the back seem to make sense. Some limbs that are free to use as tool manipulators make sense. But I think within those parameters there's a LOT of room for very broad variance given the amount of chance that also seems to be required. Would we have intelligent species on the planet if not for the accident of a random asteroid impact? smile

Last edited by DM; 02/18/18 10:02 PM.

"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4405994 - 02/18/18 10:09 PM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I would assume that advanced beings would be at least partially artificial, and may differ hugely from the naturally evolved subject.

#4406062 - 02/19/18 03:00 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Crane Hunter has a good point. As did DM on the previous page. As did Calvin (Actually Bill Watterson). Working from what DM said:

Quote
I saw some random Youtube a few months ago , that suggested a lot of these incidents are the product of the human psyche projecting archetypes onto something they can't understand. Way back in the distant past those archetypes were spirits & Gods, more recently they were religious experiences and miraculous events, and now we have spaceships & aliens. I might try to dig it up it was interesting.
.

I was into it when I was younger. But having gotten on, and perhaps more cynical, and hopefully wiser, I note that the aliens fall into two camps: Demons or potential Messiahs. When I was younger there were generally two types of beings, when beings were reported - huge stinking monsters or LGM that seemed more curious than anything else. "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" clearly had a Messiah bent, curious aliens who telecommunicated with their chosen one, but despite the enormity of their craft, apparently meant no harm, at least.

Stephen Hawking made the point that if there are races out there that can get here, do we really want to let them know we're here? To anyone that could get here, we're cattle, at the very best. And if they have hostile, or even relatively benign intentions ("What cute little pets they'd make!") as to our ability to resist, you'd better hope for a "War of the Worlds" ending, where our germs do them in or something.

I refer you now to the wonderful essay, They're Made of Meat by Terry Bisson. The ironic little piece underscores the same points - we are stuck traveling at a tiny fraction of the speeds needed to get anywhere meaningful in several generations, and the craft needed to do that would have to literally be its own world. You can't wait 20 or 30 years for your communications from earth to tell you take a left at Antares. Criminee, even a manned mission to Mars you would be waiting minimum 18 minutes for a transmission to be received and and acknowledgement sent back. If that doesn't give you the heebee-jeebies, you've got more guts than me. And I love this stuff - I have a 43" tall Saturn V model on the corner of my desk.

As a creationist (not necessarily a Young Earth Creationist) I figure if He's got other races out there, it's his business. And I think our current state of technology and our situation here in "C" space (using Bisson's term), underscores the words of Christ - "You must love the Lord your God, and your neighbor as yourself" (And take care of the place as he commanded back in the beginning). Implied: "And I'm not letting you in on the secret to getting off this rock until you're fit company for the rest of them!"

Now please don't flame me for the religious references. If this is all an accident (which is actually harder for me to believe), then phooey. May as well dig a hole and get in it, you'll be dead soon enough. And glory, I'd bet most of us on here have lives >>> than 90% of the world.

And I'm not dismissing the sightings, just kinda laying out my framework for understanding them.


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#4406065 - 02/19/18 03:07 AM Re: "UFO" Over Oregon That Sent F-15s Scrambling [Re: Crane Hunter]  
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Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
I would assume that advanced beings would be at least partially artificial, and may differ hugely from the naturally evolved subject.


Agreed, or have an AI companion to assist/defend them


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