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#4405652 - 02/17/18 03:25 PM WOFF system requirements  
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Hi there. Is it possible to run this game with the following system?

Intel Core Duo 3.0 ghz

3 gb Ram

1 GB DDR3 video card

Windows 32 bit

thanks!

#4405659 - 02/17/18 04:20 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Welcome to the WOFF forums Redjagd. You can likely run WOFF UE on your system but you will need to go with low settings in the workshop for terrain and scenery and such. What vid card do you have? Also, a bit more RAM would be helpful.
The devs recommend a 3.6ghz cpu, 2 gigs of vid memory, 8 gigs of RAM, and a 64-bit OS, sooooo...

Cheers!

Lou

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#4405661 - 02/17/18 04:29 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Originally Posted by Redjagd
Hi there. Is it possible to run this game with the following system?

Intel Core Duo 3.0 ghz

3 gb Ram

1 GB DDR3 video card

Windows 32 bit

thanks!




Ouch.
Is this a old laptop?

#4405665 - 02/17/18 04:50 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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I just realized that WOFF UE is only supported on 64-bit systems. My bad Redjagd, your computer will not run WOFF UE. Sorry about the misdirect.

Lou

#4405668 - 02/17/18 04:55 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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To follow on what Lou said: The UE version of WOFF requires a 64-bit OS, so:

Your system might benefit from more RAM; however it appears currently limited to 3G (I'm guessing there may actually be 4G physically installed, but it typically gets handled/reported by Windows as only 3G due to system 'overhead' and the way memory is addressed). Because you're running a 32-bit version of Windows, adding memory unfortunately wouldn't do any good: The 32-bit operating system also means that, mathematically, the computer cannot access memory beyond 4G.

You can/should determine whether your PC can physically support more memory, then consider whether changing your OS is practical/desired at the present time. That will allow you to meet the requirement of a 64-bit OS.

Also, just as Lou says, it would help a lot to know the exact model of the video card. You may find that upgrading the card is a good choice - but keep in mind you're somewhat limited, because after a point, the processor will be a 'bottleneck'. For example, it wouldn't be a good idea to put a top-of-the-line video card in your system because your CPU will be holding the video card back. According to most people here (and the Devs) this game is very processor intensive and doesn't benefit much from multiple cores. So, you need to find a GPU that's a good match for the CPU you have, and beyond that maybe start thinking about upgrading the system.

I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask any questions.

Regards,

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/17/18 04:59 PM.
#4405672 - 02/17/18 05:15 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Redjagd, I strongly suggest listening to kksnowbear, the man knows of what he speaks and is one of our top sources around here when it comes to computer builds.

.

#4405676 - 02/17/18 05:40 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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I’m no hardware guy, or software for that matter, but to get that system up to any kind of specs would probably be a crack dream. Out of the box the MB is will probably be an issue...among a whole lot of other things.

#4405684 - 02/17/18 06:04 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
I’m no hardware guy, or software for that matter, but to get that system up to any kind of specs would probably be a crack dream. Out of the box the MB is will probably be an issue...among a whole lot of other things.


You may well be right, Duke...it's just that - if I can be perfectly candid here - sometimes (and for any number of perfectly compelling reasons), replacing a system may be economically impractical for some folks. Tough times, and what. So people often do with what they have, you know smile

That being said, it is possible the system might be worth considering an upgrade for - we'd have to know a lot more than we do at the moment. If it's not a good idea, then perhaps a replacement. Of course, that would be up to the OP. No doubt a system like that being generally described is going to be 'long in the tooth', but with some love and care, they can be serviceable. Sometimes for a lot less than replacing it. I think it wasn't terribly long ago some of the folks here were still playing on Core2 systems...Lou had one a while back, which I believe he played WOFF on. I know I've gotten a surprising mile or three out of some of those 'vintage' systems.

Back around to the OP: Duke has a point, of course. If there's any way possible, it would probably be good to start thinking about replacing the system.

And Lou - thanks much for the kind words. Your recognition is valued and appreciated smile

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/17/18 06:07 PM.
#4405686 - 02/17/18 06:14 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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I hear you sir and I understand.
Just didn’t want the gentlemen to think with a couple of parts he’d be running WOFF in all (or even some) of it’s glory.
I have not computer shopped in a while but I have to believe, in this day and age, he can get a semi-decent system - better then his potential upgraded one - pretty cheaply. Plus then “upgrading” the old one to W10? I shudder at the thought. Even a used one may be a better avenue then putting money into what is probably a electronic dead-end.

But what do I know. I am full of opinions I throw out asked for or not! smile

#4405689 - 02/17/18 06:21 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Oh, you know plenty Duke as evidenced by the plethora of your informative posts in these forums. smile2

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#4405690 - 02/17/18 06:29 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Well thanks Lou.
Now the pressure is on to make sense in here at least half the time.

#4405692 - 02/17/18 06:33 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Wow Duke, you're going for 50%? I'm lucky if I make sense 10% of the time. The other 90% I spend confusing not only myself but most of those around me.

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#4405693 - 02/17/18 06:34 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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LOL No one said anything about Windows 10!!! I think I know your position on that - and, for what it's worth, I could not agree more. That's one "upgrade" I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. (Really, another subject there, for another thread)

You are correct concerning replacement systems. I do a little of that, myself (re-purposing gently-used hardware, that is) and fairly decent systems can be had for a relatively reasonable sum. But, that's the rub you see...What is "cheap" or "reasonable" is entirely relative, and will depend entirely on the circumstances. Very broadly and generally, any upgrade worth considering may start around $50, but can easily get into more. At that point, probably better to consider replacement, which - again, broadly and generally - means a jumping off point of several hundred plus.

But this is all speculative. The OP hasn't really asked about upgrade or replacement. I think we'd have to wait his responses before we get too carried away smile

#4405694 - 02/17/18 06:36 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

The other 90% I spend confusing not only myself but most of those around me.

.


Yes, but we all do love it so....
salute

#4405695 - 02/17/18 06:46 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

The other 90% I spend confusing not only myself but most of those around me.

.


Yes, but we all do love it so....
salute


Well said!

#4405721 - 02/17/18 09:44 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Good Evening Gentleman! I´m quite amazed with the swiftness of your kind responses ! Perhaps i´v just came to the right place to make some friends. Regarding my honorable rig you re quite right its indeed an old desktop that was already upgraded several times and its reaching the end of his active service. Still its capable of running Rise of Flight with pretty high settings as well as other games like Il 2 1946, enabling even to some youtube LPS that i regularly upload to my channel. I was expecting anyway that WOFF should be hard on this system and so it will have to wait for my new ride, something i have i in mind ...but i´ll need patience to choose the right components and ultimately, to build it!

Warmest regards.

Red

#4405722 - 02/17/18 09:54 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Well I have to say I am a little surprised.
If you can run ROF on relatively high settings then I would give WOFF a try. At worst you’ll have it for your future upgrade as you will certainly need. How it runs can steer your upgrade path if you go that route.
Or save your pennies for a new system.

#4405726 - 02/17/18 10:59 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
Well I have to say I am a little surprised.


Well, to be accurate we don't really have a lot of specific details about his system. So it could be something very different from what we (each of us) imagine. Also, even though he says RoF runs with 'pretty high settings', that's not exactly whatcha call "empirical data" there biggrin And, there is no mention of screen resolution (can be a major factor), which settings are set (and how high), etc...

And finally there's the subjective aspect of both appearance and performance, meaning what looks perfectly acceptable to one player might be less so to another.

#4405728 - 02/17/18 11:32 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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And let's not overlook the fact that Red is still dealing with a 32-bit OS, (I've done that once already in this thread, hearkening to my aforementioned 90% confusion rate). No WOFF UE until he moves to 64-bit.

#4405732 - 02/17/18 11:52 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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To confide a dirty little secret WOFF UE does work on a 32-bit system.
I had my previous CP with WinXP when WOFF UE first came out (missing the 64 bit requirement somehow) till I bought my current system, just for WOFF UE, about a month latter. When did UE come out?
IIRC it (apparently) ran just fine but I needed a tip from OBD to get it installed which they graciously provided.
But, for the OP, that would just be another negative factor against smooth operation and it doesn’t look like he needs any more.

And you’re right kksnowbear - we have little hard info though I will say the OP’s original description left me with little hope and, indeed, there are a million variables that go into CP performance.

#4405765 - 02/18/18 05:39 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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I typically chime in on threads like this because I run WOFF UE on an older sysytem..

OS Win XP 32bit..Intel core 2 duo..CPU E8400..2.7GB RAM..GTX 660Ti

and it has always run perfectly with most settings at high.

So Redjagd, I would jump in and go campaigning cheers

#4405773 - 02/18/18 06:59 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Wow, I never expected it to run on Win XP!
Do you use DX9 shaders?

You have an odd combo of such old OS and CPU and relatively powerful GPU. Though in my case it is i7 860 from 2009 + GTX 970 which is also a slight mismatch, but I run Win10 on it.

Although 64-bit Windows is mentioned in requirements, the game itself is 32-bit and will run on 32-bit systems. The reason for this "requirement" is that 64-bit OS still can provide more memory to 32-bit applications.
Most of the time while I was developing DX9 shaders for WOFF UE I had GTX285 with 1GB. It is a powerful GPU, but quite old. So I was always looking closely at GPU memory usage and generally 1 Gb should be ok.

While nothing is final yet, I want to warn that WOTR versions of my shaders will NOT work on XP.

#4405774 - 02/18/18 07:14 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: AnKor]  
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Originally Posted by AnKor


While nothing is final yet, I want to warn that WOTR versions of my shaders will NOT work on XP.


Thanks, but as being published earlier, do not forget to implementate this in the new Woff-BE or as an download on Sandbaggers site.

#4405780 - 02/18/18 07:38 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Of course. I'm sure there will be official version for WOFF UE.
However my shaders are always "independent" in a sense that you can use them with anything that runs on cfs3 engine, be it stock CFS3, its addons or OFF Phase3. Maybe with some missing features, but they work.

#4405788 - 02/18/18 09:45 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Good to know, lets hope, while forcing to an much higher DirectX maybe even DX12, you can also get the VR to work, so we would get the Woff VR :-) version.
DirectX 10 can be forced on Windows XP btw.

great to read the progres.

#4405791 - 02/18/18 09:53 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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VR!
Sounds like a pipe dream but I would buy one in a hot second if WOFF supported it.
Can you imagine how awesome that would be? I’d have to build a urinal in my CP room.

#4405792 - 02/18/18 09:58 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: cptroyce]  
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Hello ... seriously? Well i run CFS3 with Ankors shaders - Hi Ankor ! - and in fact it runs smoothly. My OS is W7 as i discard W 10 upgrade fearing compatibility problems with my older games.

My system specs:

3 GB DDR2 memory set

Core 2 duo 3.0 ghz

Nvidea GT 710 Geforce ( don´t laugh )

Mobo FSB frequency 1066 mhz

Cheers!

#4405793 - 02/18/18 09:58 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: cptroyce]  
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Originally Posted by cptroyce
I typically chime in on threads like this because I run WOFF UE on an older sysytem..

OS Win XP 32bit..Intel core 2 duo..CPU E8400..2.7GB RAM..GTX 660Ti

and it has always run perfectly with most settings at high.

So Redjagd, I would jump in and go campaigning cheers



Hello ... seriously? Well i run CFS3 with Ankors shaders - Hi Ankor ! - and in fact it runs smoothly. My OS is W7 as i discarded W 10 upgrade fearing compatibility problems with my older games.

My system specs:

3 GB DDR2 memory set

Core 2 duo 3.0 ghz

Nvidea GT 710 Geforce ( don´t laugh )

Mobo FSB frequency 1066 mhz

Cheers!

Last edited by Redjagd; 02/18/18 10:08 AM.
#4405795 - 02/18/18 10:05 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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W7?
You said in your OP that you ran a “32 bit” OS?

#4405796 - 02/18/18 10:10 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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That´s it ...Windows 7 Home premium 32 bits!

#4405797 - 02/18/18 10:18 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Huh. Remember the first version was 32 bit but I thought it went to 64 bit after the initial release.
Well, that’s why I am not a computer tech. In any case good luck and have fun.

#4405801 - 02/18/18 11:17 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
Huh. Remember the first version was 32 bit but I thought it went to 64 bit after the initial release.
Well, that’s why I am not a computer tech. In any case good luck and have fun.


Originally Posted by AnKor
Although 64-bit Windows is mentioned in requirements, the game itself is 32-bit and will run on 32-bit systems. The reason for this "requirement" is that 64-bit OS still can provide more memory to 32-bit applications.


lol Don't worry Duke, it can be a bit overwhelming smile Yup, Windows 7 (and for that matter, all the way back to XP, and all the way forward to Windows 10) can be installed as a 32- or 64-bit OS. I myself have used more than 4G RAM for some time now, and in fact originally changed to Windows 7 for that very reason (XP64 was kinda...iffy, and we'll just leave it there lol).

Personally, I'm not surprised to hear WOFF UE will run on a 32-bit machine, though I hadn't actually tried it first hand. I do feel the "requirement" is a bit misleading and could backfire, though (EDIT: *IF* that's the real reason...I admittedly do not know). While I get the general idea, requiring a 64-bit OS absolutely does not mean that everyone who runs WOFF UE on a 64-bit platform will actually have more memory. In fact, even Windows 10 x64 only requires 2G. So, albeit seemingly unlikely, it is entirely possible for someone to have a 64-bit OS and actually have less memory than someone with a 32-bit OS.

So, requiring a 64-bit platform to ensure more memory on the target machine(s) is a bit like raising gas prices to ensure people have more money confused

Probably would make more sense to just require a specific amount of memory (and thereby, if necessary, a 64-bit OS).

But, hey, what do I know? biggrin biggrin biggrin

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/18/18 12:02 PM.
#4405803 - 02/18/18 11:27 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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If reading at the official web site, I think OBD did not have any 32bit OS to test WoFF UE, so they where not sure on that.
But glad it is all solved WoFF UE can run on a 32bit OS and even on XP.

#4405804 - 02/18/18 11:40 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: cptroyce]  
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Originally Posted by cptroyce
I typically chime in on threads like this because I run WOFF UE on an older sysytem..

OS Win XP 32bit..Intel core 2 duo..CPU E8400..2.7GB RAM..GTX 660Ti

and it has always run perfectly with most settings at high.

So Redjagd, I would jump in and go campaigning cheers


Something very interesting about all this, to me, is how there are folks running this game on very conservative platforms like this and the OPs (and others, I am sure)...yet if we were to ask around, I think there are many like the good DukeIronHand who would swear there's no way a conservative system like these would work. And they're generally basing that perspective on what is commonly discussed around here, as well as the published 'system requirements', and so on...They're not crazy or wrong, because they've been given plenty of reasons to form their opinion.

And, I'll tell you what, I've given this a lot of thought over the years since I first got involved with OFF (the first one, that is; the free one). What I've concluded is that there is...there must be...a certain subjective factor to a lot of this. As I said earlier, what "runs perfectly with most settings st high" for one guy might seem completely unacceptable to another.

You also have to consider that (and we hear this all the time) no two PCs are the same - even though the hardware could be identical, that doesn't mean the two machines will run the same. A lot of how Windows PCs "run" is a matter of how/what is actually installed/running on the machine (whether the user knows it/put it there, or not).

Finally, I'm absolutely convinced that the nature of the CFS3 "engine" is such that it's performance can vary significantly on different platforms, even where there's just not that much difference in hardware specifications. I think the software just has performance issues (for lack of a better term), and it's been touched upon more than once by some fairly prominent figures around here.



And now, for my final trick *lol* I'm going to close the loop by saying that the line between the foregoing three factors (system condition, subjective observation, and software performance) gets awfully blurry around here sometimes. And I think I'll leave it. Right. There. smile



But, as I said above, what do I know? biggrin biggrin biggrin

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/18/18 11:44 AM.
#4405813 - 02/18/18 11:57 AM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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The “subjective” factor is certainly the gorilla in the room - or is it the cockpit here?
I run WOFF with my GTX 970 settings at maximum and, generally speaking, WOFF Terrain, Scenery, etc at default or one notch higher - depending on time of career and location at 1980x1080 on my 27” monitor. Looks great but...

I am already nosing about for a new computer this year because if I can’t run WOFF at maximum all around, regardless of the year or location of the campaign I feel like, in my OCD’ism, I am missing something or not getting the best out of WOFF. Guess that is the “subjective” part to me - what performance and graphics are acceptable to you?

Without making (another!) WoT WOFF did run for me on 32 bit XP but I do not remember if I had any kind of issues (performance or odd crashes) as I quickly got a new computer with W7 that I have since, grudgingly, “upgraded” to W10. YMMV.

#4405817 - 02/18/18 12:19 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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I’m running now an i7-7700k GTX1080 and 16GB DDR4, while my old i5-2500k OC to 4,8Ghz HD7970 maxOC and 8Gb DDR3 Ram did do the same job at the same load and FPS. I still suspect the old XP 32bit OS on a old system like an i7-920/HD5870 and 4gb ram, can handle the ancient game engine from Woff nicely.
Think for vintage game engines, new is not always better.

Last edited by dutch; 02/18/18 12:20 PM.
#4405819 - 02/18/18 12:26 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Duke, yup, that's precisely the sort of thing I'm referring to (the 'subjective' factor). I actually realized this quite some time ago...perhaps even before this forum came about (as in before the move from 'the other site').

Another sub-part to the subjective factor is the general concept that people who have spent a lot of money on the latest and greatest hardware...well, let's just say there's a reason the term "bragging rights" exists. The old "I can run (insert favorite game title here) at 500 FPS with settings on Ultra, on my Intel Thunderdrone i12-9000 and Nvidia GTX1395 32G DDR9"...

(which, by the way, is not at all in any way limited to this forum or this sim, to be sure)

*sigh* So, after someone's clearly wrapped up a few thousand bucks on all that bravado...that monument to tech-tosterone...how likely do you think it is that they're going to admit their system doesn't necessarily run all that much better than the guy using an i5 and a GTX570 he picked up used for $500???

I've probably said too much already *lol*...but you can bet it's also a factor.

#4405820 - 02/18/18 12:28 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: dutch]  
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Originally Posted by dutch
I’m running now an i7-7700k GTX1080 and 16GB DDR4, while my old i5-2500k OC to 4,8Ghz HD7970 maxOC and 8Gb DDR3 Ram did do the same job at the same load and FPS. I still suspect the old XP 32bit OS on a old system like an i7-920/HD5870 and 4gb ram, can handle the ancient game engine from Woff nicely.
Think for vintage game engines, new is not always better.


Thank you, thank you thank you...

You actually posted this even as I was typing my post which is below yours...but you couldn't have made my point better if I'd paid you to.

(and no, in case anyone's wondering, I didn't pay him biggrin biggrin biggrin )

#4405821 - 02/18/18 12:30 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Interesting.
It would figure that the old game engine would ultimately be a limiting factor in that no matter how big and powerful your CP is as it can only be pushed so far.
Still, I thought I had a pretty good system, yet some folks are running at higher graphics levels then me so I would guess I have not yet hit the ceiling hardware-wise. Maybe? Probably? Or is it my OS or something else in my system.
Who knows? Still having a blast though.

EDIT: “Tech-tosterone!” Hehe. Nice. Gonna steal that one from you

Last edited by DukeIronHand; 02/18/18 12:45 PM.
#4405827 - 02/18/18 12:52 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
It would figure that the old game engine would ultimately be a limiting factor in that no matter how big and powerful your CP is as it can only be pushed so far.


Yes, it would figure...wouldn't it? And, as I said, that's been alluded to any number of times around here, a few recently, and by some fairly prominent, knowledgeable folks.

Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
Still I thought I had a pretty good system yet some folks are running at higher graphics levels then me so I would guess I have not hit the ceiling hardware-wise yet.


I think a good part of this is subjective as well. For example, they might have their settings higher, but might tolerate lesser performance than you might. That's just an example, mind you, but it should illustrate the 'subjective' concept. If you look at what Dutch is saying - and I am quite sure there are others (myself being among them), he doesn't necessarily find much improvement even across 2-3 generations of hardware.

And, by the way? As far as 'hitting the ceiling' goes? lol Just about time you drop a wad of your hard-earned hay, you can bet Nvidia will be releasing the next latest and greatest biggrin Mind you, you should do what makes you happy - not saying otherwise, of course - just that I don't think this game(or any other TBH) will ever be perfect, no matter what you throw at it or how much it costs.

If you have a 970, I can tell you that you *do* have a pretty good system, for certain. Is it top-o-the-line? Of course not, you knew that already. Were there issues with 3G vs 4G in the 970s? Yup, far as I can tell, and it's all over the Internet. (But I'll gladly make you an offer on that card, if you get a new one). Will buying a 1080 mean WOFF UE runs without issue? Nope...count on it. And count on this: At some point, you'll find yourself wondering how much a GTX1180 will improve (insert favorite sim title). Or a 1280...or...? biggrin

(And that's not to say it isn't a great sim, before anyone gets all whacked outta shape here.)


Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
EDIT: “Tech-tosterone!” Hehe. Nice. Gonna steal that one from you


Nuh-uhh, no ya don't. It's copyrighted biggrin

#4405830 - 02/18/18 01:17 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Damn, copyrighted! I was gonna start using it as well.

As to the latest and greatest cutting edge gaming systems, all well and good provided you have a stack of cash to spare on such fine things. I do not which is why every system I've ever built has used "last year's" technology, and I've been more than happy with the performance each time. Plus, when I do the next build/upgrade I have a guy who buys my gently used parts. winkngrin

#4405837 - 02/18/18 01:40 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
Damn, copyrighted! I was gonna start using it as well.

As to the latest and greatest cutting edge gaming systems, all well and good provided you have a stack of cash to spare on such fine things. I do not which is why every system I've ever built has used "last year's" technology, and I've been more than happy with the performance each time. Plus, when I do the next build/upgrade I have a guy who buys my gently used parts. winkngrin


Aye, ne'er more wise words be written, to be sure.

1. Always do what I call "keeping up by being one step behind". That is, you can afford to keep a very nice higher-end, capable system at a much lower cost by never buying into the latest and greatest. Whatever it is you're looking at that's just come out - give it 6 months or a year, it'll be a lot cheaper. If you're not into it yourself, consider finding someone who offers gently used hardware with a warranty and support. You should find that last year's technology is holding it's own just fine, thank-you-very-much. If used hardware doesn't appeal to you, look into closeouts and clearance sales on the previous generation, just around when the next gen stuff is coming out. Spend the savings on your boat self wife biggrin

2. Be happy with the performance (knowing you saved a ton that wouldn't be worth it anyway, even while acknowledging there will always be something later and greater. Next time. How is your boat wife doing, anyway?) biggrin biggrin biggrin

3. Find a way to recycle your hardware so that you can further offset the cost of upgrades. Consider the guy who makes reasonable offers on gently used stuff smile
About 2 weeks ago, I sold a rebuilt third-gen i7 / GTX980 / 16G machine to a young man who worked and saved his money to afford it. He was looking at a $1500+ new build online; I cut that figure nearly in half, and he was thrilled. Not just with the savings, but with the performance as well. And it runs like a scalded dog, I promise bananadance

OK, off the soapbox. Sorry, I get carried away smile

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/18/18 01:43 PM.
#4405841 - 02/18/18 01:57 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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I often kick around building my next machine and saving a metric s-ton in money.
Kinda spoiled by “click, click” online and the next greatest CP is at your door 2 days later ready to rock.

#4405844 - 02/18/18 02:07 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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The last upgrade I made to my old gaming system was well over a year go at this point and I've been running the following since then:

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core, OC’d to 3.8GHz
CPU Fan: Arctic Super Cooler
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16gb (4 x 4gb) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Mobo: ASUS Sabertooth P67
Hard Drives: 2 Western Digital 640 GB Caviar Black SATA
Opti Drive: LG 22X DVD+/RW Dual Layer SATA Rewrite
Video Cards: Two EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-3975-KR 4gb cards with HB SLI bridge
PS: Corsair HX 850 Watt
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
LG 27" flat screen LCD monitor, 1920 x 1080 native resolution
Four large case fans, plus the PS, CPU, mobo, and card fans
Saitek AV8R joystick
Saitek Pro Flight rudder pedals
Track IR4 camera with latest IR5 software

I know it is far from cutting edge but it runs WOFF UE beautifully so I see no need to spend money to change it right now. Not saying I won't build a new one at some point though.

#4405845 - 02/18/18 02:13 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Does WOFF take advantage of SLI vid cards?

#4405846 - 02/18/18 02:16 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Duke, I'm not sure of the "magic" that takes place with the SLI but I can tell you that before I added the second card I was not able to run all the settings in the workshop at '5' and have smooth performance. Now I can. Take that for what it's worth.

.

#4405851 - 02/18/18 02:36 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
Does WOFF take advantage of SLI vid cards?



Ahhh, here we go. I am stunned at the number of folks (and, more specifically, "Developers") who don't seem to understand this, even though the information is readily available.

It's another widely misunderstood topic that comes up in game forums all the time: SLI "support". Factually, no game requires built-in support for SLI in order to take advantage of the additional GPU processing ability. There are modes of SLI that can be applied to any properly equipped and configured system (no built-in 'SLI support' is required), these modes exist specifically for applications that do not have built in support for SLI. It simply happens that many games have been configured to work with profiles which are provided to automatically optimize SLI settings/features for that game. This is actually addressed on Nvidia's website ( click here ):

What applications are supported with SLI technology?

SLI technology can be enabled for every gaming application, including both OpenGL and Direct3D gaming applications. SLI technology provides either 3D performance scaling using alternate frame rendering (AFR) or split-frame rendering (SFR) or increased visual quality using the SLI Antialiasing mode. In order to provide the optimal 'out-of-box' experience for its customers, NVIDIA has created an extensive set of optimized game profiles which enable SLI scaling automatically.


Just as Lou has seen first hand, there doesn't need to be 'support' in the sim for performance to improve by using SLI.

#4405853 - 02/18/18 02:50 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Hmmm. Seems like I hear a lot of complaints that SLI is “old news” and “modern systems and games” do not take advantage of it. But that’s just what I hear.

#4405859 - 02/18/18 03:03 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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It's really unfortunate that SLI, being so widely misunderstood, has suffered a poor reputation among those who don't understand it and/or have zero experience with it (not at all directed toward anyone in particular, to be clear). However, I can tell you first hand (as can Lou) that it does work. I've set up several SLI machines; 9800-GTs, 260s, 460s, 560Tis, 570s...Not long ago, I set up a pair of 770s and I'm here to tell you they could hold their own easily against a GTX980, and beat the pants off a 3G 1060. Yes, they drew a lot of juice and generated a lot of heat. Not for everyone, obviously. Sometimes, it just won't work (in a given game) no matter what, it seems (poor programming, say I).

But it's hardly old news, and just as I explained above, *any* game can take advantage of it. Whether a specific system can will depend on the actual hardware. Some motherboards do not support either SLI or Crossfire (the AMD version of multi-GPU); some only support one or the other. Generally, the more high-end boards will, since it's an "enthusiast" feature anyway. Also, if the motherboards slots are not arranged a certain way (or are simply not present) then SLI isn't an option. And it only works with certain cards (on the 10-series, only 1070 and up, for example).

So there might be some newer systems that don't have SLI support, but only in teh same sense as not every new car you can buy will have all-wheel drive. Just not a standard feature on all units.

Hope this makes sense smile

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/18/18 03:07 PM.
#4405863 - 02/18/18 03:08 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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DirectX 12 should be specifically coded to support SLI, there's no automatic support in DX12. It however allows to use multiple GPUs even if they are completely different. For example, it can use GPU integrated into the processor together with main GPU. But once again it is not automatic in DX12 and game developers has to specifically implement this feature. Which is very unlikely in modern world where most games are developed for PC and consoles at the same time.

Last edited by AnKor; 02/18/18 03:09 PM.
#4405865 - 02/18/18 03:14 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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AnKor - is this to say you believe that SLI will no longer work on DX12 if it's not specifically supported within the game? What about the SLI modes (AFR, SFR...) which don't require built-in support (per the link above)? And I assume games running DX11 or earlier could still benefit even on a Windows 10 machine - no?

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/18/18 03:15 PM.
#4405868 - 02/18/18 03:28 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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DX11 is not affected by DX12 quirks and features. And Windows 10 has improvements for DX11 as well.

Quote
SLI will no longer work on DX12 if it's not specifically supported within the game?

Yes, it will not work (I may be wrong of course, but from what I learned it really seems so).

#4405871 - 02/18/18 03:31 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Looks like my next update will be dictated when, and if, I actually run a sim that takes advantage of DX12.

.

#4405875 - 02/18/18 03:41 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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AnKor - thanks for clarifying smile I suppose we'll see.

Lou - I'm going to hazard a guess that many games will have configuration settings to allow selecting which version of DirectX to use. Oddly, I was just looking at this the other day for a couple games that my sons and some of their friends play (GTAV and Ark, maybe...?)

#4405946 - 02/18/18 07:36 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
AnKor - is this to say you believe that SLI will no longer work on DX12 if it's not specifically supported within the game? What about the SLI modes (AFR, SFR...) which don't require built-in support (per the link above)? And I assume games running DX11 or earlier could still benefit even on a Windows 10 machine - no?


99% of the time, unless a game actually has a dedicated SLI/CROSSFIRE profile, trying to force a game using AFR rendering or something similar is abysmal, unless you like poor framerate, flashing, corrupted/missing textures, missing shadows, missing effects or a million other potential quirks. This is coming from someone who currently has 2 970's in SLI and 2 R9 290's in crossfire and have used SLI rigs for the last 10 years at least. In this day and age, unless you are hunting for 4K Ultra settings or 240hz refresh it just isn't worth it.

DX12 sounded super exciting with its ability to use multi-gpu rendering setups and actually be able to harness the full amount of both cards Vram without having to each use its own frame buffer, but 2 years down the line there is literally 0 support for it. In fact current SLI support on new games is practically non existent in my opinion, and also factor in that most games actually still achieve better performance in DX11 mode V DX12.

My current advice is to just buy the best performance single GPU you can afford, especially in the current climate with gpu's being used by crypto miners. SLI used to be a cheap way 18 months down the line to give yourself a nice GPu boost by adding a cheap second hand card to your rig, but in the current climate I could actually sell my cards second hand for what I paid for them new.


I7 4770k@4.6ghz WC H80i
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2 x MSI 970 GTX SLI
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#4405955 - 02/18/18 08:12 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: 4L0M]  
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4L0M I guess we'd just have to say your experiences with SLI have been different than mine (and some others).

Like I said above, I've also used more than a couple of SLI rigs myself over time. I am very aware of some of the issues - as I said, sometimes it just won't work no matter what you try. The same 2x 770 setup I mentioned before just absolutely refused to work for the very game it was targeted for (PUBG), and after weeks of trying this and that, I finally gave up, slapped in a single 980 and off we went, not a hiccup since - just like you mentioned. But I think it's important to distinguish what I consider poor programming from any problem inherent in SLI.

You did mention something significant about very high resolutions. I've long maintained that as possibly the best case for having a dual-GPU setup.

Whether SLI is "worth it" or not, in my opinion, is also very subjective. For example, Lou seems very happy with his setup.

As for support going forward, I also said that (in my opinion) this is a very unfortunate product of the (perhaps undeserved) reputation SLI has gotten. I maintain that it is a valid technical approach in the right circumstances, which - had it been better received/gotten more support - would have done much better than it has. Instead, it looks to be waning, and I think that's a real shame.

Originally Posted by 4L0M
SLI used to be a cheap way 18 months down the line to give yourself a nice GPu boost by adding a cheap second hand card to your rig, but in the current climate I could actually sell my cards second hand for what I paid for them new.


I agree completely with you in this respect; I think this mining business has dramatically changed the outlook for SLI from what it was intended to be back in the day.

Anyhow, this thread wasn't started about SLI, and I'm sure we've all been over this ground a thousand times. Sorry if I've had a part in dragging it off course.

Regards,

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/18/18 08:26 PM.
#4405959 - 02/18/18 08:39 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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I thought most who are now actively crypto mining have moved, or are moving, to ASIC miners.

.

#4405963 - 02/18/18 08:53 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

I thought most who are now actively crypto mining have moved, or are moving, to ASIC miners.

.

TBH Lou it's not something I really follow believe or not - you may well be right. But, I think where SLI is concerned, I'm afraid the damage may be done.

#4406513 - 02/21/18 12:43 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

I thought most who are now actively crypto mining have moved, or are moving, to ASIC miners.

.


I think the bigger ones like bitcoin are, but there are loads of "ALT" coins popping up all the time, such as Dogecoin, Litecoin, Z cash, ethereum that people still try to mine on GPU's etc etc.

It's so annoying! I was debating whether to buy a 1070gtx last year, I decided against it as I already had 2 970's in Sli, so for me personally, I didn't really think it would be worth it so I would skip this 10 series of cards completely.

When I was looking at the Asus OC Armor 1070gtx, it was £325.
The EXACT same card is currently retailing in the UK 6 months later for £590!

Crazy!


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#4406563 - 02/21/18 04:21 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: 4L0M]  
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Originally Posted by 4L0M
I think the bigger ones like bitcoin are, but there are loads of "ALT" coins popping up all the time, such as Dogecoin, Litecoin, Z cash, ethereum that people still try to mine on GPU's etc etc.

It's so annoying! I was debating whether to buy a 1070gtx last year, I decided against it as I already had 2 970's in Sli, so for me personally, I didn't really think it would be worth it so I would skip this 10 series of cards completely.

When I was looking at the Asus OC Armor 1070gtx, it was £325.
The EXACT same card is currently retailing in the UK 6 months later for £590!

Crazy!


Yup, when you can find the 10-series cards anymore (if they're not out of stock...) the price seems to have doubled, maybe more. Christmas 2016 I bought my sons both 1060 3G cards for just under $200. Now, when you can find them in stock, they're much higher (NewEgg lists the same model from OutletPC right now for - get this - a totally absurd $539!!!!)

This past Christmas, I waited and checked several times a day just after New Year's and was finally able to catch a MSI 1070Ti Titanium to replace my aging 780. I had been using a 980 that I 'borrowed' from my inventory to evaluate the performance. Turns out the 980 was only about 16% better than the 780 I already had (and only +1G RAM), so it was worth it to hold out for the 1070Ti - it's more than 50% better than the 780, and at 8G has more than twice the RAM. Solid upgrade, even though it's a sinful amount to spend on a stupid graphics card *lol*

And yes, I doubt it would be worth the upgrade for you if you're already using 2x 970s, unless you just really wanted to save on power/cut down heat by going back to a single-card setup...and if either you/Lou get ready to part with the 970s, you let me know; maybe I can help you take a chunk outta what they get for the 10xx cards wink

BTW, wasn't it MSI not Asus that made the Armor series GPU's?

#4406970 - 02/23/18 03:32 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Yes mate, it was the MSI armor, not Asus. I own 2 direct cu2 Asus r9 290's,2 MSI 4G gaming 970's and an Asus strix 970,so I think I'm confusing myself by normally just owning these 2 brands, lol.


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#4406977 - 02/23/18 03:54 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
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Wow...and I thought I was nuts keeping all the hardware I do biggrin biggrin biggrin

ATM I have a 1070Ti, 2x 1060ssc 3G's, a 980 Strix, a 780sc, two 770 classifieds, a 770sc, an R9 380, 2x R7 370's, an R7 260, a 570 2.5G (rare), 2x 560Ti's, 2x 460's, an old HD6970...I think those are just the Dx11 cards...there are a few 9800s, some 8800s...whew...

#4406980 - 02/23/18 03:58 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Wow...and I thought I was nuts keeping all the hardware I do biggrin biggrin biggrin

ATM I have a 1070Ti, 2x 1060ssc 3G's, a 980 Strix, a 780sc, two 770 classifieds, a 770sc, an R9 380, 2x R7 370's, an R7 260, a 570 2.5G (rare), 2x 560Ti's, 2x 460's, an old HD6970...I think those are just the Dx11 cards...there are a few 9800s, some 8800s...whew...


Maybe you should open a reuse centre mate! biggrin


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4406981 - 02/23/18 04:03 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
kksnowbear Offline
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kksnowbear  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
lol, well, it happens, that's what I do smile

#4406988 - 02/23/18 04:21 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 152
4L0M Offline
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4L0M  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 152
Weymouth, UK
I have a gaming PC in the front room with the 2 MSI 970's hooked up to a 4K Sony Bravia, The strix is in the gaming PC in my bedroom hooked up to 55" LG TV and the 2 r9 290's are in my girlfriends PC which is connected to a 40" Samsung, also in our bedroom, lol, with a PS4 Pro and PS4 hooked up to the TV's in the bedroom, too. We like playing coop games online together........... We are sad, I know....... Lol.

If you have any old hardware lying around, the VERY best thing I have done in a while was to use an old 3770k and Asus Z97 mobo, I bought 16GB Crucial Ballistix ram on an Amazon lightning deal about 18 months ago for £42.95 (seriously, unbelievable with todays prices), I had a spare Thermaltake case and PSU, chucked in a 256GB SSD I got free when I bought the strix 970 and setup my own dedicated gaming server. Best decision I have ever made!

All these great online survival / multiplayer / coop games that are totally ruined by the majority of toxic tools out there. So, I initially looked into renting a server, but you are looking at a 10 player server for say ARK survival evolved, costing £15-20 a month, so I thought sod it, I would build my own. With the extra bits I bought, it had paid for itself within 12 months, got 7 days 2 die, Il2 1946, arma2 and arma3 etc etc on it.

One of the best feelings, going on your own server with your mates chilling out and having loads of fun, without fear of all your stuff being destroyed online while you are away for a few days.


I7 4770k@4.6ghz WC H80i
Asus Maximus Hero VII
Corsair 1000w rm1000 psu
16gb Crucial Ballistix Tactical@2100
Creative zx soundcard
2 x MSI 970 GTX SLI
55" Sony Bravia 4k HDR
Corsiar 760t
#4406990 - 02/23/18 04:30 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
kksnowbear Offline
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kksnowbear  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
Yeah, I had set up a Minecraft server some years ago, when the kids were still home and I only had 2-3 extra machines...

Those days are long gone, for sure...

They've played Ark, but (don't lauch) I didn't even realize you could set up your own server. Too busy with other stuff, and I don't play any of those games anyway. And the boys...well, they're 23+ nowadays.

Not that they quit playing...they just quit playing ARK. Now it's PUBG (and I heard about something called Fortnite)...too much to keep up with! I'll keep my few flight sims, thanks *lol*

#4406995 - 02/23/18 04:38 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 152
4L0M Offline
Member
4L0M  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 152
Weymouth, UK
Fortnite is like crack, Myself, my girlfriend and my 2 nephews aged 12 and 14 have been playing it a lot recently online together, and I think we may be starting to have an addiction. Made me laugh when you said your boys are 23 now..... I was 44 on Monday, I play loads of different games still............ Lol.

Just if anyone is interested in their own server, 99% of the time, most games server files are free to download and install, you don't even need to own the game to make your own server for it. Cheers.

EDIT : just out of curiosity, didn't cfs3 have online? Would be awesome to have a dogfight server for WOFF so you could all shoot me down......

Last edited by 4L0M; 02/23/18 04:41 PM.

I7 4770k@4.6ghz WC H80i
Asus Maximus Hero VII
Corsair 1000w rm1000 psu
16gb Crucial Ballistix Tactical@2100
Creative zx soundcard
2 x MSI 970 GTX SLI
55" Sony Bravia 4k HDR
Corsiar 760t
#4407002 - 02/23/18 05:16 PM Re: WOFF system requirements [Re: Redjagd]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
kksnowbear Offline
Member
kksnowbear  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
CFS3 did have online; I actually did play OFF with my brother a few times. Alas, OBD elected to discontinue support for MP and I don't know if it will be restored. Many have asked about it - but one of the biggest things most love about WOFF is the SP aspect. No servers, no online...just play.

Thanks for the insight about ARK...I hadn't really thought of it. It makes sense about most games having servers; like I said, just got too much going on. I started to do one for RoF once; never even got off the ground (pun absolutely intended lol)

And the kids, man - by the time I learn anything about a game they're playing, they're off to something else. I'm still using PUBG as test on most machines I build, and now one kid said something about this Fortnite.

Mind you, I still play games too - just older ones I liked back when, and nowhere near the kind of time they have to burn on it.

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