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#4404812 - 02/13/18 12:07 AM SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII  
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Fullofit Offline
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There comes a time in WOFF pilot’s life when he starts asking questions. Where do I come from? Why does it burn when I pee? Why isn’t my rear gunner shooting? And, how do I tell the difference between the two SPAD models. The most obvious way is to count the number of Vickers being aimed at you. This is only slightly helpful, as you probably will never live long enough to tell. The engine of the XIII is more powerful than the VII’s, but since both models leave you far behind, the method may be less than reliable. So what’s left? External appearance, you say? Ok, let’s try that. XIII has an extra set of struts connecting the fuselage to the top plane. So, that’s one way. What else? XIII has a larger radiator. Good luck telling them apart that way. Might as well count the machine guns. Got anything else? Something big, easily distinguishable? Well yes, the rudder. They are totally different. Take a look at the picture below:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Totally different ... not! Something went wrong with SPAD VII model.
Ok, never mind. Let’s look at the horizontal stabilizer and elevators: two different animals. Look:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Umm, I give up. Help!

(You can always turn the labels on.
Lay-bells? What’s that?)

Attached Files Side-13.jpgSide-7.jpgTop-13.jpgTop-7.jpg

"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4404824 - 02/13/18 12:54 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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High over the Front
Interesting find sir. Never noticed the above items.
Course I am not (until now - trying again) been a big Spad guy due to the cockpit visibility. But this can be a matter of taste when you jump from one plane to another.

On another note I wish OBD would break out the different engines used during the operational lifetime of both aircraft.
Same game model just with slightly different performance stats.

#4404840 - 02/13/18 01:39 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
On another note I wish OBD would break out the different engines used during the operational lifetime of both aircraft.
Same game model just with slightly different performance stats.

Would that matter? You'd still outrace anything else in the sky, while doing your best impression of a brick.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4404842 - 02/13/18 01:51 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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MFair Offline
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Could not tell a Spad VII from a Spad VIII in a fight if I tried but if it burns when you pee, you might want to get that checked! biggrin
As for myself, I come from the nowhere, I go to the no place. If I am at the Ranch, there is no place anything like this place, anywhere near this place, so......this must be the place!!


Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from either end.
BOC Member since....I can't remember!
#4404846 - 02/13/18 02:16 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Fullofit Offline
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MFair, looks like you found the right place.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4404847 - 02/13/18 02:24 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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MFair Offline
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
MFair, looks like you found the right place.


I like your humour Bud, I near about spit coke all over the living room when I read your post!


Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from either end.
BOC Member since....I can't remember!
#4404848 - 02/13/18 02:58 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Thanks Mark, but what are you doing with a Coke? At this hour I should be making you spill a Bud all over your living room.
Do you think the devs will be able to help with this burning issue?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4404867 - 02/13/18 06:44 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Great idea, Fullofit thumbsup
Can you make something similar for Nieuports, especially later models? I never know in the heat of battle what is my opposition.

#4404871 - 02/13/18 07:56 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
Interesting find sir.
On another note I wish OBD would break out the different engines used during the operational lifetime of both aircraft.
Same game model just with slightly different performance stats.


It will be Not exact the same model but I do like the idea.
Also the 37mm gun Spad 12 and the two seater versions would be a great choice, minimal effort for ODB to create and max fun for players.

#4404876 - 02/13/18 09:07 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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High over the Front
Yes. I meant it can be same model WOFF-wise in the game.

#4404884 - 02/13/18 10:40 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Guess these SPAD visions will in the next Woff UE2 which also does include the Belgium airforce ;-)

#4404892 - 02/13/18 11:15 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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High over the Front
Sweet!
And the Sopwith Dolphin and...

#4404915 - 02/13/18 01:34 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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All very good point gentlemen and of course the humour is much appreciated. I considered this read my "morning smile" reading smile . Now, if you can pry the devs away from WOTR, you just might have a chance to see your suggestions come to fruition! winkngrin


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#4404933 - 02/13/18 03:12 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Gentlemen, you are missing the point. I think SPAD VII's tail is modelled wrong. Compare the line drawing insert with the actual screen capture image of the model. You can clearly see it's not right. Hence my problem telling the difference between the two models. SPAD VII tail looks too much like the tail of SPAD XIII. New planes would be nice, but let's get right the ones we already have.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4404943 - 02/13/18 04:28 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Sorry, but I think there's about as much chance of that as MvR showing up for a meet and greet in the cornfield across the road from the brick factory this spring.
Cheers,
shredward


We will remember them.
#4404946 - 02/13/18 04:31 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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.

hee hee hee

.

#4404962 - 02/13/18 05:18 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Shredward]  
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Originally Posted by Shredward
Sorry, but I think there's about as much chance of that as MvR showing up for a meet and greet in the cornfield across the road from the brick factory this spring.
Cheers,
shredward


So you're saying there's a chance! whoohoo

#4404969 - 02/13/18 05:55 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Gentlemen, you are missing the point. I think SPAD VII's tail is modelled wrong. Compare the line drawing insert with the actual screen capture image of the model. You can clearly see it's not right. Hence my problem telling the difference between the two models. SPAD VII tail looks too much like the tail of SPAD XIII. New planes would be nice, but let's get right the ones we already have.


Oh I got it just fine but, I suspect, WOFF is on a back burner that is not even lit.

#4404995 - 02/13/18 08:10 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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If you look at the SPAD7 rudder diagrams the tails are actually very similar in fact. The S7 has a slightly flatter top edge and the vertical fin is a tiny bit smaller If you look at the models there, you can see I did actually did make those OK. The back edge of the rudder should be straigher though.

The horizontals are the same on the models and they should be different. Maybe one day I'll fix it. But there's rather a list of stuff to get through before I can do anything anywhere else...

Last edited by Polovski; 02/13/18 08:12 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of the fabulously immersive
"WINGS: Over Flanders Fields" WW1 Sim.
http://www.overflandersfields.com
#4405003 - 02/13/18 09:21 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Fullofit Offline
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“One day” - that’s not never. Thanks Pol. Now about that burning sensation when I pee ...


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4405023 - 02/13/18 11:24 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Pooch Online content
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It's not really as important as all that, actually. If you are flying one of them, you know which one you grabbed. If you are flying against them, all you have to do is make sure they don't get behind you. The tactics used aginst either version wouldn't be much different.
Also, the time of the encounter will help. The SPAD 7 was a mid war airplane while the 13 was used in the last year of the conflict. If it's 1916, it's probably a SPAD 7. If it's 1918, it's most likeLY a SPAD 13.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4405036 - 02/14/18 12:32 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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High over the Front
Unless you’re flying against the French.
Going strictly be memory, and not an expert in the French Air Service, didn’t the XIII (with the lesser horsepower engine - 200 hp?) start reaching French Escadrilles in early summer of 1917?
Course now that I type that I guess I can check with the almighty internet. I’ll be back.

EDIT: Yes. Deliveries began in May 1917 - one month after the types maiden flight. And the original models had a 200hp engine later replaced by 220hp+ types.
Glad to see my memory is not going too bad!

Last edited by DukeIronHand; 02/14/18 12:42 AM.
#4405045 - 02/14/18 01:18 AM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Not to mention the fact that they did fly SPAD VII all the way to armistice. Some even preferred it to the XIII - engine less problematic.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4405119 - 02/14/18 12:44 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Yea I gotta try to get into the Spads.
Great and beautiful aircraft but I have minimal stick time with the VII and none with the XIII.
Visibility thing IIRC. Perhaps I have mellowed with age.

#4405152 - 02/14/18 03:50 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Pooch Online content
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I like the SPAD. But, yeah, visibility is absolutely awful. I lose sight of Huns I'm chasing all the time. They disappear behind that big, thick, upper wing and suddenly they aren't in front of me anymore. "Lose sight....lose fight."
The Nieuports are my favorites. The Bebe and the 17. Neat little buggies.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4405219 - 02/14/18 11:01 PM Re: SPAD VII vs. SPAD XIII [Re: Fullofit]  
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Yup, forward visibility is gawd-awful in the SPAD. That's why they made the instrument panel so pretty, gives you something to look at. But seriously, boom and zoom is the only way to fight in it, checking your six all the while. Get in a tight spot? Dive away, regain alt far from the fray, then re-engage. Repeat as needed or until you're out of ammo, or until the Hisso conks.

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