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#44043 - 02/08/00 10:12 AM Two Circle Fights  

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I`m a real newbie so bear with me if this seems stupid (doh!)
If I accept a head to head pass from a bandit with similar manuevarability (IE Mig 29) and energy state as me I break into him as he passes and he turns into me:- All that seems to happen is I never gain an advantage on him and continue turning until I run out of altitude (drop the nose to keep at best turn speed). If i go into the vertical to try to convert onto him he nails me every time!!
How do I beat this guy!! This seems to be a harder problem than when he appears sat on my six and yet it should be a neutral situation!!!
Aaargh!

Thanks and hopefully my questions will get less stupid as my experience level increases!!

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#44044 - 02/08/00 12:43 PM Re: Two Circle Fights  
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Jason

I don't have enough info to give you a specific answer, so here are some generalizations.

First of all, are you flying against a human or the sim's AI? The reason is that in some sims, the AI permits the other a/c to perform better than you, even though the two a/c types are similar. The MiG-29 in Falcon 4 is tough to beat.

Some neutral situations may well remain neutral if both pilots fly their best BFM.

If the two a/c are the same, then flying in plane tends to result in a stagnated fight.

You can avoid this by taking advantage of out of plane maneuvering whenever possible. Please note that there is nothing 'magic' about going 'into the vertical'...by itself, the maneuver means little. Out of plane maneuvering must be done with a specific purpose in mind. This usually involves the use of Radial G to improve relative turn performance. But, all out of plane maneuvers are by definition lag maneuvers, so the pilot must use them wisely or else he may well put himself into a worse situation than he was originally in.

It's pretty hard for anyone to offer advice that will win the day! Take advantage of as much academic input as you can stand (see the Air Combat Corner here at SimHQ for numerous articles on BFM. I suggest you begin with my 'Perspective' series.)

Then there is a wealth of help available on line. Most sims have a number of web sites where you can meet and fly with folks that have had the same experiences as you.

As a final note...don't stick with a particular sim if you aren't having fun or success. What are you looking for in a sim? If you can give me a little more info on what it is that you want to do, perhaps I can help with additional recommendations.

Andy

#44045 - 02/08/00 05:47 PM Re: Two Circle Fights  

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Just a quick note to say thanks for the help and speedy reply!!
As you seem to have guessed this is Falcon 4.0,I`ve only had it for a week or so and am easing myself into it before wading into the campaign:- I`m totally hooked by this game (though the family seems less than pleased by it!!)
I`ve been flying BFM aginst a defensive target working my way through the planes up to the mig 29 and can hack them ok (only AI so far)
Taking a step on I`ve gone to head on BFM and these guys just seem a beast to beat,...nevermind practise makes perfect hey.
Like the looks of Janes F/A18 but its not out in the UK yet so that`ll be something else to eat into my free time!!

#44046 - 02/08/00 07:43 PM Re: Two Circle Fights  
Joined: Oct 1999
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Andy Bush Offline
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Jason

Sounds like you are having fun...and that's all that counts!

F4 is a great sim...but it can be a little daunting if it is a pilot's first sim.

What views are you using...padlock, snap, external..?? Your choice of views can make a significant difference in how well you fly BFM.

Good luck...and if you need help, just give us a yell.

Andy

#44047 - 02/16/00 03:55 PM Re: Two Circle Fights  

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Hmm, let me give this a try...
In a head to head situation with an opponent like a MIG-29 which has similar turning abilities, my best advice is to try and get some lateral ofset before the merge, hence that will give you more turning room, start turning INTO the bandit as soon as your Line of Sight rate starts to INCREASE(when he is starting to move to your side on your canopy) Keep your speed up and don´t yank on the stick for max g right away, that will only cost you precious energy, try and maintain corner velocity (330-430 ) and once you commit to a turn, don´t even think about reversing, that will only give the bandit more time and space to react, stay in lag pursuit untill it is time to put the guns onto the bandit. If he goes vertical my best advice for you is to head for the entry window, e.g. dont follow him right away, fly to the spot where he started his vertical turn and then follow, the worst mistake you can do is to follow a bandit into the vertical in lead pursuit, you will only end up spending more energy and therefore the bandit will have the advantage, a fighter like the mig29 might have the advantage in a vertical fight since he has two engines, but obviously if your carrying Aim 9´s, he´s a sitting duck up there so long as your within paramaters (hot engines against cold blue sky hehe) keep focusing on your speed and only pull the stick for all its worth when you think you have a good shot, and when you have a good shot, TAKE IT, don´t wait for a better angle or try and get a cleaner shot, shoot for all she´s worth, i think thats bout it...hope it helps! =)

------------------
Halldor B Jonsson
Snr IP FTWS (ftws.sim-arena.com)
CO 313th VFW (www.fly.to/313th)

#44048 - 02/17/00 12:22 PM Re: Two Circle Fights  

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Thanks for that Jester: All help is appreciated!
I seem to be getting better with practice my main problem now seems to be losing SA when I padlock the bandit:- If I dont though he soon reappears on my six!!
I`m sure only practice will cure this one its just a case of getting used to the orientation cues.

#44049 - 02/17/00 09:21 PM Re: Two Circle Fights  

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Jason,

Jester and Andy's responses are right on.

I would only add that while you are a beginner, focus on the basics before going to the special teams plays. What I mean is learn to be able to sustain a high G max corner velocity turn in the horizontal so that you can turn many many circles without losing your energy. Most human fighters spend all they have in the first one or two turns due to poor SA and E-management.

So he who manages the E better will win most of the time. Then once you perfect the horizontal plane with your plane, then move to being able to perfect looping in the vertical. You can do all this without any other plane in the game.

To deal with AI that has some built in cheater advantages or performance perks, I recommend that you then start using the finer aspects like high or low Yo-Yo to slowly inch up on the target. This is a slow up and down movement like riding a roller coaster. This will give you a short snapshot opportunity. But again, this is after you master the fundementals of E consveration already mentioned.

Another thing is to learn to lead turn the target when going beak to beak. Turning too early exposes your six to him early. Turning too late leaves you six open soon after the merge. Turning right on the merge is the 50/50 situation. I tend to like to start the merge above the corner velocity and then turn into the bogie a second or two before he passes by. thus that usually puts me in behind the bogey before he can finish his first circle.

Hope that helps you.

THomas AV8R Spann


Moderated by  Andy Bush, RacerGT 

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