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#4402872 - 02/01/18 03:38 PM A question for the devs and other computer gurus here  
Joined: May 2012
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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L'Etoile du Nord
As some of you know I am currently working on a fairly massive mod of the Belfort aerodrome and surrounding area and despite the amount of objects I currently have placed I am still seeing no noticeable hit in performance. FPS is hanging right around 65 with WOFF settings on full, even in a 7v7 furball directly above the citadel. Loading of everything in the landscape at the beginning of a mission is precisely the same, about seven seconds of scanning 360 sweeps until it all smooths out and runs beautifully from then on. My current system specs are as follows:

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core, OC’d to 3.8GHz
CPU Fan: Arctic Super Cooler
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16gb (4 x 4gb) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Mobo: ASUS Sabertooth P67
Hard Drives: 2 Western Digital 640 GB Caviar Black SATA
Opti Drive: LG 22X DVD+/RW Dual Layer SATA Rewrite
Video Cards: Two EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-3975-KR 4gb cards with HB SLI bridge
PS: Corsair HX 850 Watt
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
LG 27" flat screen LCD monitor, 1920 x 1080 native resolution
Four large case fans, plus the PS, CPU, mobo, and card fans
Saitek AV8R joystick
Saitek Pro Flight rudder pedals
Track IR4 camera with latest IR5 software

Hardly cutting edge by any means but still a good solid system.

As reference here is a screenshot of the Belfort mod in its current state with a full flight of Nieups in the sky above it:

(right-click on image and open in new window to view it full size)
[Linked Image]

So what has changed in the most recent version of our beloved sim that allows us to have all this density and still be able to fly about smoothly - or am I just getting lucky here? Inquiring minds want to know.

Cheers!

Lou

.

Attached Files WOFF_UE_Belfort_mod_016.jpg

[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

#4402874 - 02/01/18 03:44 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Raine Offline
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That's pretty interesting. Personally, the limited of my technical skills in these matters is when, faced with an inexplicable glitch, I sacrifice the odd chicken to the computer god.

Can't wait to fly over Alsace again to see Belfort. I started a career in 3 Wing at Luxeuil last year and thoroughly enjoyed it. This mod would have really made it, though.

#4402875 - 02/01/18 03:58 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Steve;

I have not verified this yet but personally I am inclined to believe that trees are more of a culprit on FPS than buildings in general. I seem to hit FPS problems when I propagate a fair number of trees. What I don't understand is how OBD can produce dense forests in WOFF without FPS impact.

Just my two cents worth and I am willing to listen to anybody!


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4402876 - 02/01/18 03:59 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,925
RAF_Louvert Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
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L'Etoile du Nord
.

Raine, it is quite awesome to fly above the city and be able to look down into actual streets with shops and such, even if I do say so myself, (and I do). But a chicken? I usually go directly to a llama in such situations.
I am hoping to have a beta of the mod available in the next couple of weeks for folks to try on their own systems. It will be for spring/summer of 1915 for testing purposes.

Robert, I agree with you about the trees, they seem to have more of on impact on performance than buildings do. I should add though that at this point I already have a couple of hundred trees in the mod.

.

#4402894 - 02/01/18 05:38 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,344
JJJ65 Offline
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Czech Rep.
The big difference in FPS is quick combat vs Campaign mission. But Alsace region is less demanding on FPS because of less aircraft in air during combat mission overall. The Flanders region is more sensitive.
Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by JJJ65; 02/01/18 05:39 PM.
#4402897 - 02/01/18 05:47 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Lou;

Your several hundred trees is nothing in comparison to the trees that exist in the Izel village/Izel airfield/Filescamp&Filescamp extension airfields/Filescamp Farm. All of these facilities combined contain 650 trees. Each airfield holds approx 100 trees each and the Farm contains 300. Even at 300, the Farm looks rather sparse. I wish there was a way to provide the necessary historical look without the FPS impact.
LIke you, my facilities take about 7 10 10 seconds to load after which things become smooth. However, even though they are smooth on my system, I drop about 20 fps periodically as the views change and things get loaded. I will probably be cutting back on the trees at some point unfortunately. I hate to do it as it impacts the look and feel of the facility.

As I said in my earlier post, I wish the facilities would load as efficiently as the native forests in WOFF. I don't know how they are achieving it.

Best Regards;

Last edited by Robert_Wiggins; 02/01/18 07:41 PM.

(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4402905 - 02/01/18 06:39 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,925
RAF_Louvert Offline
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L'Etoile du Nord
.

Thanks Robert, I know your most recent completed mod is quite tree rich and it looks it, very nice and full, not sparse by any means IMHO. I wonder if the native trees in the landscape aren't a simpler version of the ones available in the "buildings" folder and that is why they load more efficiently.

Jara, I have been running campaign missions as I've gone along and the results are the same as in QC, no discernible difference in performance between the very plain stock Belfort and my mod. I do agree that the region is less demanding in terms of planes in the air, but it is much more demanding in terms of trees so I wonder how much overall difference there is.

#4402910 - 02/01/18 07:23 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: JJJ65]  
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DukeIronHand Offline
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High over the Front
Originally Posted by JJJ65
The big difference in FPS is quick combat vs Campaign mission. But Alsace region is less demanding on FPS because of less aircraft in air during combat mission overall. The Flanders region is more sensitive.
Just my 2 cents.


This is my thinking also.
The campaign, especially in a busy sector and/or active time period is a huge factor.

#4402922 - 02/01/18 07:58 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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AnKor Offline
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Russia
Yes, facility trees are pretty bad. Unfortunately I don't know why. Generally anything that uses alpha transparency (DXT3 or DXT5 texture) is much worse for FPS than solid objects (DXT1 texture), but trees seems to have unnecessarily big impact.

Generic forests are drawn with a very different approach and that's why they can be much more dense. CFS3 is still pretty bad at it though, I tried finding and remaking that code with a more modern approach, but without much success -- it is too time consuming to justify this work.

#4402946 - 02/01/18 10:03 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Posts: 6,524
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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Ankor, thanks very much for your insight, it is appreciated.
By the way, what have you been up to recently. I haven't seen you around here for awhile?


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4402962 - 02/01/18 11:25 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
Joined: May 2012
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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L'Etoile du Nord
AnKor, I had a hunch things were different with the trees in the forests, thanks for confirming that. Too bad you couldn't come up with a code work-around.

#4403006 - 02/02/18 07:59 AM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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4L0M Offline
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Weymouth, UK
The trees around airfields use their own individual textures for each tree. The Forest trees textures are provided on a texture "sheet" that also includes the majority of the standard buildings/roofs/bushes etc all on one texture.

There are 4 of these texture sheets used in game, one for each season.

There are separate tree textures for the airfields/facilities trees, again 4 different textures, per tree, 1 for each season. These individual tree textures are larger in size than the stock forest tree textures are.

Could you guys not speckle your airfield mods with the forest tree types as opposed to the other ones? Performance would be a lot better, and the visual impact of the trees would be negligible. I haven't looked into if this is feasible or not. There has to be a way that the game engine knows where to place a forest tree in a specific place or not.

Regards!


I7 4770k@4.6ghz WC H80i
Asus Maximus Hero VII
Corsair 1000w rm1000 psu
16gb Crucial Ballistix Tactical@2100
Creative zx soundcard
2 x MSI 970 GTX SLI
55" Sony Bravia 4k HDR
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#4403012 - 02/02/18 09:52 AM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Posts: 388
AnKor Offline
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AnKor  Offline
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Russia
4L0M,
I don't think there is a way to make forest trees appear at specific location in facilities.
As I understand forest trees are randomly placed and controlled by mask textures which are tied to terrain textures.
However I don't know much.

Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
By the way, what have you been up to recently. I haven't seen you around here for awhile?

I work for something new for WOTR, but it is a secret for now smile

#4403043 - 02/02/18 03:05 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: AnKor]  
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Posts: 6,524
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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Originally Posted by AnKor
4L0M,
I don't think there is a way to make forest trees appear at specific location in facilities.
As I understand forest trees are randomly placed and controlled by mask textures which are tied to terrain textures.
However I don't know much.

Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
By the way, what have you been up to recently. I haven't seen you around here for awhile?

I work for something new for WOTR, but it is a secret for now smile


thumbsup


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4403094 - 02/02/18 07:37 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: AnKor]  
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dutch Offline
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EURO-zone
Originally Posted by AnKor
4L0M,
I don't think there is a way to make forest trees appear at specific location in facilities.
As I understand forest trees are randomly placed and controlled by mask textures which are tied to terrain textures.
However I don't know much.

Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
By the way, what have you been up to recently. I haven't seen you around here for awhile?

I work for something new for WOTR, but it is a secret for now smile


Lets hope not only for WW2 but also ported to WoFF

#4403111 - 02/02/18 09:15 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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L'Etoile du Nord
.

AnKor, whatever you're working on for WOTR will be spectacular, of that I've no doubt. And as Dutch pointed out, perhaps you will bring it over into WOFF, yes? smile2

4L0M, thanks for the info. Wish there was a way to use the landscape trees rather than the building trees.

.

#4403192 - 02/03/18 02:08 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Ace_Pilto Offline
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Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
I've been getting along fine with it but newer guys who don't know how to tweak their system settings might struggle. The FPS hit is there but I'm only dropping to 25-30 at worst with some stutter approaching concentrations of airfields with 200 or so planes on the mission.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.
#4403202 - 02/03/18 03:08 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Raine Offline
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Raine  Offline
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Ace, I'm not newer but definitely dumber. Any tweaking advice would be gratefully accepted.

#4403209 - 02/03/18 03:48 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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AnKor Offline
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AnKor  Offline
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Russia
Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
AnKor, whatever you're working on for WOTR will be spectacular, of that I've no doubt. And as Dutch pointed out, perhaps you will bring it over into WOFF, yes? smile2

I hope it will smile
And yes, will likely be in WOFF as well.

#4403214 - 02/03/18 04:07 PM Re: A question for the devs and other computer gurus here [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,524
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Offline
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Hotshot

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Posts: 6,524
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
bananadance


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

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