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#4401304 - 01/22/18 12:39 AM Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour...  
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Ace_Pilto Offline
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Howdy everyone.

I've had a bit of a go at flying WoFF again recently and I've noticed that the Escorting AI routine for the players flight seems to be broken on escort missions. Instead of orbiting above the scouts or bombers the AI fly at 70mph about 2,000ft behind and below them. Obviously this just don't won't do, it gives the perverse impression that these ridiculous Be-2c's that we encounter are escorting US instead of the other way around and I can't have that, it's bad for my self esteem. So, I was wondering where I would would start looking to adjust their behaviour? I'm also unsure if this is a vanilla problem or just a mod problem as I am using the following mods:

New WoFF In Sim Map
Cockpit Skins
News Mod
Random Delayed Start
Reduce Gunner Accuracy
Rivers
Additional Bomber Targets
Cloud Mod V2.0
Load screen
Clouds Folder
BB Fog Option
Custom d3d8.dll settings
Facilities Models 0
1917 + Facilities + Full Trees 1
Consolidated Custom Facilities 2 (V 2.12)
Realistically Populated Airfields
Mission Set for Apr 1917 from OldHat's mission mod<<<Could this mod alter the behavior at all???

Any help getting started would be appreciated and I'll see what I can do about it.


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#4401314 - 01/22/18 01:05 AM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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I personally don't have an answer for you but I have not noticed this behaviour. Why not deactivate OldHat's mod and see if this problem persists.

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#4401337 - 01/22/18 07:21 AM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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IMHO it is not problem of mods, because none of the mods you have installed can influence escort altitude. Altitude is preset in OFF_CampMission.xml file generated by WOFF, but it is always higher than escorted formation. I think it can be problem of flight speed: BE-2c's cruise speed is too low for escorted aircraft, they have difficulties to keep altitude at high AOA, stall and loose height. But that is just my theory.

#4401338 - 01/22/18 08:22 AM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: JJJ65]  
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Well I'm trying different missions to see what happens, no escort missions yet though, just endless offensive patrols.

Originally Posted by JJJ65
IMHO it is not problem of mods, because none of the mods you have installed can influence escort altitude. Altitude is preset in OFF_CampMission.xml file generated by WOFF, but it is always higher than escorted formation. I think it can be problem of flight speed: BE-2c's cruise speed is too low for escorted aircraft, they have difficulties to keep altitude at high AOA, stall and loose height. But that is just my theory.


I don't know why they should try to match speed at all, it wouldn't make sense, they should stay in the same area as the recon planes at the designated height.

Last edited by Ace_Pilto; 01/22/18 08:24 AM.

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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4401343 - 01/22/18 08:44 AM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Ok, I have an idea...

The "NationTypeMissionTypesYear" files in CampaignData/MissionTypes assign a task to each flight depending on the mission type. What I want to do is remove the escort behavior from escort missions and substitute the Offensive Patrol behavior instead. This makes more sense to me since the "escorting" flight will be in the same area as the recon/bomber flight (following the same waypoints, arriving ahead and leaving after they have done their deed, hypothetically) for half an hour and during the patrol they should be more inclined to do something more useful than following slower aircraft all the way back to the detach point which doesn't make much sense to me, obviously it's a better employment of resources if the scouts are free to keep enemies in the area busy. Close escort is tactically ridiculous anyway, it just looks pretty making the planes fly close together, it doesn't achieve anything. Of course there is some chance that the 2 seaters will be engaged while egressing/near their field but, tough titties I say.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by Ace_Pilto; 01/22/18 08:49 AM.

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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4401349 - 01/22/18 11:05 AM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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I cope with another problem now. When I am attacked (while flying bomber plane) over target, my escort is nowhere or already landing on my airfield. The escort usually detach over target and fly home regardless bombers are in danger. I tried to increase size of escort, unit morale and individual pilots morale and skill (via Mission Editor) but no avail.

#4401362 - 01/22/18 02:17 PM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Yeah I've noticed that too, sometimes they just run for home no matter what the odds. I've even had an entire patrol RTB because a pair of Rolands happened by.


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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4401401 - 01/22/18 06:58 PM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Ace, is your squadron a "mixed" squadron, with both scouts and two-seater types, where B flight is you with a couple of scouts and A flight is the two-seaters you are supposed to escort?

I have seen the behavior you describe only in the case of these mixed squadrons. "Normal" escort missions where you rendezvous with aeroplanes from another squadron seem to work without this problem, at least in my experience.

What is the name and date of the squadron where you get this odd behavior? Also, are you flying a scout or a two-seater?


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4401443 - 01/23/18 03:17 AM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Bob, on paper the squadron has three types available (all scouts) but in practise we only ever use the N.17. We have 2x SPAD VII's in reserve and 2x N.24's but they never fly, only the N.17's are ever assigned (Although we have a few 5 victory aces).

I'm still flying the N.17 with Esc LaF in April 1917, out of Ham/Eppeville now but we had the escort problem out of Ravenel too.


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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4401447 - 01/23/18 04:24 AM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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What happens when you uninstall OldHat's historical mission mod?

I wonder if the bug is caused not by the mod itself, but by the game when "enable third party missions" is selected in Workshop?


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4401456 - 01/23/18 08:19 AM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Ace_Pilto Offline
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If I ever get assigned an escort mission I'll let you know lol.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4403613 - 02/05/18 07:55 PM Re: Need help tracking down AI Escort behaviour... [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Nope, changing to "Historical" missions in the workshop made no difference, flight leader still waffles about on the edge of a stall about a mile behind the recon planes...


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji

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