Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
#4327378 - 01/09/17 10:06 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,436
Master Online sigh
meh
Master  Online Sigh
meh
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,436
NW Alabama, USA
The fact that they have it in beta but had NDA for anyone who plays it makes me skeptical. I almost preordered a few times but there just doesnt seem to be a reason to other than to play it "right now" and that is only useful if the NDAs go away and people can tell you if it is any good or not.


And we as its creators don't feel ready to hear your annoyed jabber about it.
-IL-2 BoS Dev Team

http://www.alt-games-warbirds.com
Blood, Guts and Oil, My youtube channel
twitch.tv/masterjts

Unofficial SimHQ Discord
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4327834 - 01/11/17 08:24 AM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Crane Hunter Offline
Hotshot
Crane Hunter  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Vancouver B.C.
Not sure if there'll be enough content in this game outside of PVP deathmatch.

I mean the gameworld appears to be rather empty and lacking in the way of non combat interaction.

As the combat itself, you can count on a brutal level of camping once it goes live, that and maybe players who'll go in minimally equipped and either hope to get lucky with loot or sprint for the exits for easy EXP.

#4327921 - 01/11/17 06:09 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 986
bonchie Offline
Member
bonchie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 986
This game seems like it'd brilliant as a SP or COOP shooter, not just PvP.

The amount of detail they've got into the environment itself, breaching doors, opening drawers, car trunks, scavenging, etc. is pretty incredible.

If it just turns into people running around shooting each other, it'd be a big waste of all these assets and all the hard work that went into creating animations, weapons, etc. There needs to be a more immersive narrative going on besides just a PvP match.

And to that extent, I'm still not clear whether we'll get that or not.

#4328043 - 01/12/17 03:00 AM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Crane Hunter Offline
Hotshot
Crane Hunter  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Vancouver B.C.
I don't about the SP or Co-op, as it seems the AI is mediocre that far and appears to compensate by cheating.

The environmental interaction and looting aspects seem to be at par with a number of recent open games, so not really much new there.

#4328092 - 01/12/17 02:17 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
Then they need to concentrate on AI that is good enough not to cheat. Considering we had good SP AI in games as far back as FEAR and even the first Half Life, it's really ridiculous that a game made post 2010 could have poor AI.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4328117 - 01/12/17 03:55 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Crane Hunter Offline
Hotshot
Crane Hunter  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Vancouver B.C.
Its a lot harder to build a good AI in a open worldish game with large maps and realistic weapon ranges, than it is for a corridor shooter.

#4328166 - 01/12/17 07:27 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Crane Hunter]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 986
bonchie Offline
Member
bonchie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 986
Originally Posted By: Crane Hunter
I don't about the SP or Co-op, as it seems the AI is mediocre that far and appears to compensate by cheating.

The environmental interaction and looting aspects seem to be at par with a number of recent open games, so not really much new there.




I haven't played a lot of other open world games lately so I'm not the best source, but the fluid animations and complexity for the weapons, combat, and being able to interact within objects was impressive to me (opening drawers, car trunks, etc.). I've seen things like Ubisoft's latest open world offerings and Fallout and hadn't seen that kind of detail.

If that's normal fair now, I just hadn't experienced it.

#4328331 - 01/13/17 02:50 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Crane Hunter]  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
Originally Posted By: Crane Hunter
Its a lot harder to build a good AI in a open worldish game with large maps and realistic weapon ranges, than it is for a corridor shooter.



It shouldn't be. It should be the same thing with the addition of added range, that's all.

If they just can't do it, they should stop making open world games because it defeats the purpose. I'd rather have a convincing representation of being in a constricted environment than a large world populated by brain-damaged morons.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4328366 - 01/13/17 06:28 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Jedi Master]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Crane Hunter Offline
Hotshot
Crane Hunter  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Vancouver B.C.
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master


It shouldn't be. It should be the same thing with the addition of added range, that's all.

If they just can't do it, they should stop making open world games because it defeats the purpose. I'd rather have a convincing representation of being in a constricted environment than a large world populated by brain-damaged morons.


The increase in overall complexity and not being able to rely on scripting so readily, makes open world AI a lot harder to do well according to a video game developer relative of mine.

However it could be augued that a large world populated by morons is more realistic...

Perhaps they'll improve the AI, the game is only in alpha afterall, but I wouldn't expect the cheating to go away entirely.

#4328375 - 01/13/17 07:21 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
The problem is morons would be realistic, but they don't know how to program those at all.

They can either make brain-damaged types that run while facing a wall, ignore you when you're 5 ft away but shoot when you're in another room from them, and bump into each other with pathfinding straight out of a Keystone Cops routine, or they're uber terminators shooting you in the head with the first bullet from an SMG at a range of 300 yds after doing a 180 spin and crouch.

I can always tell a human player because of the mistakes they make, the ability to see but not hit, the tendency to try to do the fun thing over the smart thing. AI never do.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4328441 - 01/14/17 05:28 AM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Crane Hunter Offline
Hotshot
Crane Hunter  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Vancouver B.C.
It largely comes down to limited CPU resources and the fact that playtesting to the point of a polished and seamless product is not even close to being commercially viable.

That's not to say it's impossible, I've played S.T.A.L.K.E.R. mods with superb AI, but it's a tough demand from a vanilla product.

I can live with some of the usual open world enemy AI behaviors, like where you have your humanoid opponents become all 28 Days Later fast and herky-jerky once fully alerted, but I don't like seeing them being able to see in complete darkness or through heavy brush, or teleport-spawn into combat, as appears to be the case from some of the EFT alpha videos I've seen.

#4328538 - 01/14/17 07:13 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 986
bonchie Offline
Member
bonchie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 986
The later Metal Gear games had decent open world AI. They may of been localized in some ways to specific points on the map, but nothing says Tarkov can't do the same kinds of tricks.

If the map were substancially bigger, I think they'd have more of an excuse (i.e. like an Arma3 map). But Tarkov is pretty small by open world standards and it has a lot of cooridorish features.

#4328574 - 01/14/17 10:34 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Crane Hunter Offline
Hotshot
Crane Hunter  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Vancouver B.C.
EFT's total map size is reportedly 16 sq km, while not huge (that's more neighborhood than city sized in real life terms), its still a bit bigger than Fallout 4's Commonwealth.

What's more is that EFT has a lot in the way of complex interior spaces and even has some built up areas with huge height variations and interior volumes, if some of the trailer footage is accurate.


#4329098 - 01/17/17 03:43 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
That is true, few open world games have both detailed exteriors and interiors. Arma is particularly egregious in having spartan and unrealistic interiors, but infantry get hung up so easily on things you can't even try and spruce it up. Most have you load a new map when you go indoors and then again outdoors.

I recall the first Far Cry was novel because you could go from outside to indoors without loading a new map. Granted the islands were hardly open world, but they were large compared to the ones Unreal- and Q3A-engined FPS games had at the time.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4329110 - 01/17/17 04:15 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 104,858
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 104,858
Miami, FL USA
I remember someone actually timed how long it takes to walk from one end of Skyrim to the other side and it was something ridiculously short like less than one hour.


Mandata tua!
#4329118 - 01/17/17 04:30 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 986
bonchie Offline
Member
bonchie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 986
If Tarkov is going to be a closed game (i.e. no user made maps), and I assume it will be, then there's nothing to stop them from doing more heavy scripting with the AI to customize them for specific environments. Specific indoor paths laid out to follow, cover points defined, scripted patrols (that appear randomly), etc.

Tarkov isn't the first game to ever have detailed interior/exterior components to deal with in regards to AI.

It's a bit different with Arma3 because there are so many maps and they are so large that it's not practical to customize each building to optimize the AI. Especially since so many maps are user made.

#4329259 - 01/18/17 01:40 AM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Crane Hunter Offline
Hotshot
Crane Hunter  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,730
Vancouver B.C.
The game is still alpha, so I'm willing to cut it some slack as far as AI development.

Of possibly more concern is that it appears to be heavily oriented towards CQB, with the vast majority of firefights appearing to be at 50 yards or less, making the longer ranged weapons and optics seem pretty much useless.

Movement noise seems to be somewhat exaggerated (to the point that even turning too quickly will cause your clothing to rustle), but it seems hard to actually see other players at any kind of a distance.

I'm guessing that IFF will be a real problem in the finished game if there are no changes.

#4399785 - 01/13/18 07:58 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 843
Amaroq Offline
Member
Amaroq  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 843
Europe
Soo... it's in beta now. What's it like? I'm interested but a bit hesitant over the RPG elements. I don't have a lot of time to play and if you're expected to spend two hours every day just levelling your character I simply can't. Even Argo has shown to be way to much of a grind for me.

Still all looks absolutely incredible though.


Don Quixote's misfortune is not his imagination, but Sancho Panza.
#4399991 - 01/14/18 11:10 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,477
JoeyJoJo Offline
Wurkin' man
JoeyJoJo  Offline
Wurkin' man
Hotshot

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,477
Colorado high-country
I was hesitant during the Alpha, but I bought the game over the Christmas sale, and have been playing off and on for the last couple of weeks. (prob ~10hrs total so far).

The premise of the game is a squad based, tactical FPS sim. They are going for extreme realism and detail, but also balance to keep it fun. There is NEVER a dull moment; you have to constantly be looking and listening. It's also a gun lovers wet dream, with *every* single part being able to be customized (barrels, rails, attachments, optics, stocks, etc.).

There is no grind because leveling only affects passive traits (stamina, satiety, weapon control, carry cap, etc.). You can use the same weapons\equipment at lvl 1, that you can use at lvl 40. There are trader levels that you'll need to improve so you can get access to better gear; but again, it's not much of a grind since loot is plentiful (right now anyways); and you can still find that gear if you kill a player using it. The main benefit of being high level is easier (but not exclusive) access to high-tier equipment. There's no level restrictions for servers as well; so it's not impossible for low lvl players to kill high ones; it's all about skill (and maybe a little luck lol)

Starting out the game is a little daunting, as there is absolutely no hand-holding and you have to memorize levels and know where loot spawns and extraction points are. The controls are similar to Arma's, but much more refined and intuitive. There is an offline mode that you can use to learn the levels, test weapons, etc. and it won't affect your progress or loot; although it will be removed on full release.

There are definitely performance and server issues with a few fps drops and dsync issues, but overall the game feels very playable.

This is just a quick first impression; but from what I've seen\heard, they are going to take this game far beyond it's current state. I'd highly suggest checking out a streamer called Klean who works for BattleStateGames. He's super chill and as a lot of inside information about the game.

IMHO I'd say it's probably worth the base price ($45) just for the amount of content and entertainment value; but it's not for the faint of heart.

#4400113 - 01/15/18 05:26 PM Re: Escape from Tarkov [Re: Sokol1]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 843
Amaroq Offline
Member
Amaroq  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 843
Europe
Thanks, that's some great insight! You have spent about as much time with it as I could have so I'm guessing we're a similar player type. I enjoy realism and simulation but I don't have five hours a day to spend with a game.

I'm still annoyed I missed the Christmas sale. Somehow their newsletter got stuck in my spam filter mid '17 and when I checked back this week on a whim I had missed all the action by just days. I just feel the full price is just a little high for the amount of time I would have to spend with it. Alas, I may get it anyway.


Don Quixote's misfortune is not his imagination, but Sancho Panza.
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Meatsheild, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Question about the Cockney accent
by PanzerMeyer. 01/22/18 03:31 PM
You Can Always Go Around!
by Airdrop01. 01/22/18 12:11 AM
Usefullness of kitchen gadgets
by Dunolde. 01/21/18 06:15 PM
The Farthest: Voyager in Space
by Haggart. 01/20/18 08:51 PM
Hope You Got Your Flu Shots
by Haggart. 01/20/18 06:32 PM
Turbo Tax
by Haggart. 01/20/18 12:50 AM
Need recommendation for simple inkjet printer
by malibu43. 01/19/18 06:01 PM
Bullitt Mustang
by KraziKanuK. 01/18/18 05:59 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0