Hello, anything new?


oh new screenshots !

PS: Pls OBD consider alternate payment options for future with WOTR so it's easier to purchase the game.....

In all the years I have purchased various OFF / WOFF sims, add-ons and expansions, I have never heard of anyone not getting their product or having their finances compromised. If you want it bad enough - as you seem to - I am sure you can find a way to make it happen. Everybody else but you seems to be able to.

Hellshade it's not 1990 anymore, there are sites like GoG, Steam, Green man gaming etc. I know there might be legal issues with them as this is a mod for a microsoft game, but there are also plenty other resellers with modern payment options. I'm sure i'm not the only one...

It's just a quality of life feature for plenty of people.

ok back on topic.....


Is WOTR starting with BoB? I'm seeing hurrs and spits

It sure looks that way.....However, Pol has said that eventually those wings will be flying over the Reich.......Just can't wait.......even tho I have to

There were Hurris over more than Britain
Cheers
shredward

I believe WOTR will unfold roughly in chronological order, with planes featured first in the Battle of France, Battle of Britain, and so on.

Which raises an interesting question, assuming WOTR starts with the Battle of France: will we see any French fighter aircraft, such as the Bloch MB.152, Morane-Saulnier M.S.406, or the more "modern" Dewoitine D.520?

OBD if you are starting as early as Battle of France maybe start from the beginning of WW2 with Poland? All you need is 1 plane, the PZL 11

Then we’ll need PZL 7, PZL 24, Karaś, Łoś. And if we want to be fancy: Sum, Wilk and Jastrząb. It’s not that easy.

Not to mention ace skins, squadron skins, airfields, etc.

If France or Poland is the Start Place then shouldnt the name be WOF or WOPOL Instead of WOTR ( British Bombers ) ? Logically, shouldnt the 1st game models be French or Polish instead of shots of Hurrys and Spits. Another thought , Starting with French based Hurricane Sqn might be in order. In any event , My checkbook is ready and I cant wait !

Strictly speaking WOTR shouldn't be happening over England. But by the same token we wouldn't have Marne, Verdun, Alsace in WOFF. Who doesn't want that?

Starting with the Battle of France... be sure!

Will Wotr improve on European air war?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc1ktgkOVUw

so many years and still not single player ww2 flight sim that could rival EAW......

Tis a high bar, indeed!

I am confident that OBD is up to the challenge.

Wotr coming in 2018 ?

I heard

EAW was great at the time... looking at the video years later I have to say simply one thing... PANTS!

Graphics might be old..... but what other modern WW2 flight sim offers 100 planes in air with a dynamic campaign...

I found some videos on YouTube with highly modded CFS 3 (including AnKor's shaders and WOFF land textures)
that give an idea how WotR will look like...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAxg_04J7Q8&t=17s

some more here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmQ4jfx-KOReBUVj2rSuT5A/videos?shelf_id=0&sort=dd&view=0

That looks pretty cool and i dont have any doubts that WOTR will look even better. The excitement continues to build.

wow nice,





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t-xWZBzpHk


Wonder will WOTR have it?

I was impressed by that video!
I hope WotR will be offering that kind of quality...

And what you do see is free for use, so yeah they have to be much better.

Yes, the other videos were far better, good stuff!

This is the same mission, but he flies it from the German side.

For all who would like to fire up the CFS3 disk, get your info on this website http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php/7-CFS3-General-Discussion

It wets my appetite for WOTR but personally, I'll wait to see what OBD comes up with.

I agree with Hellshade...
I revisited Sim Out House after many years of absence and got kind of lost with the bulk of mods over there...

Those videos and the scenery just remind me of an early version of WoFF... still, much better than that first 'PANTS' video, lol!

And yes, can't wait to see what the OBD guys come up with... exciting times for us combat aviation simmers

Exciting times indeed!

Glad you guys enjoyed my videos, they actually don't represent all of what can be done in CFS3 these days. No doubt OBD is on the ball and making something really special with WOTR, I'm looking forward to it. Meanwhile I'm enjoying creating my own improvements, and trying not to kill my 50+ mission WOFF UE pilot!

I have watched your CFS3 videos many times the last days ( I was impressed, I admit)
I would like to see some more, from you, gecko...
What tracer-smoke effects are you using in that videos? (I liked them very much)

I'm glad they were enjoyable. I was honestly surprised at the response they've gotten. My current project is a team effort on a Spitfire which will replace the one you see in the videos, once that one gets closer to being ready maybe I'll put up a few more videos. Or maybe I'll find something worthwhile in the meantime.

The tracers are my own mod, which is available as part of the Hawker Typhoon add-on released last fall. But I don't need to hijack this thread any further, hopefully OBD will put out some more screenshots soon to keep us all drooling.

Gecko, are you using the ETO expansion for CFS 3? (Any chance you know how to get missions to complete in Windows 10? I installed it but couldn't fly for more than 10/15 minutes or use timeskip without a CTD, it seemed to be triggered by enemy planes spawning)

I have ETO, but rarely fly it (too busy building things) and I don't have windows 10. I suggest asking at sim-outhouse regarding questions with ETO or CFS3. There are some folks there who are very knowledgeable about dealing with windows 10 and CFS3.

Thanks, I had a gander over there and couldn't find any threads that matched my problem. Hopefully I will have posting permission now...

Nope, I can't even reply to threads.

Nevermind, I fixed it...

Hi I’ve only just become aware of the plans for WOTR and am quite excited. I never knew this engine existed.

Gecko are you involved in development?

Can you post some more vids?

Cheers

OBD are making WoTR, the same people that have produced WoFF, not Gecko...

I have not done any work for OBD, and the videos are not previews of WOTR. But, like others have said, it uses the same (or very similar) shaders as WOFF, and I imported the WOFF scenery textures, so you might get an inkling what WOTR will be like from the videos, but they aren't the same thing. WOFF and WOTR are both based on CFS3, and my videos are just from my own highly modded version of CFS3.

OBD pls real time dynamic campaign for WOTR, even when you land and sleep the action takes place, and a visible moving frontline to accompany it !

It would be the best WW2 flight sim ever made....


You can use falcon 4 or Enemy Engaged as inspiration

Looks like Pols posted a shot.

Great shot. Where was this posted?

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4391724/1

I hope to update the website soon with some more pics.

Here's another one..

Looking Good. !

https://giphy.com/gifs/nbc-super-bowl-reactions-3o7WIQ7Fm2ysfSR3O0/fullscreen



https://giphy.com/gifs/budlight-football-bud-light-l4pT3y50C7uHLkSGc/fullscreen

Looks good Pol. Can't wait to fly it.

Oh wow. Can't wait for this, Pol!

I'm getting my WW2 fix with Il2-1946 and B.A.T at the moment.
I cannot wait to see what you guys come up with. Extremely looking forward to WOTR,great shot POL..I sincerely hope things are coming along nicely.

Coincidently I've just finished "First light" by Geoffrey Wellum. A fantastic read

Right on, I just can't wait for this! Bring on more pics, love it!!!
Thanks Pol!

wow wow! The WW2 crowd is even bigger than the WW1 crowd... so if you guys get it right, it will be a real winner !

I've become so WW1 oriented between RoF and WoFF idk which crowd I properly belong to anymore but jeez I'd give my eye teeth to see WoTR be a massive hit.

Excuse me, please : which flight sim is this one ?
Thank you

It's Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3 - but with a lot of the WOFF UE textures ported over.

Bronnx, get your info about all the packs on the simouthouse forum.

If you are interested in WW2 aviation, then this is a good time to be a flight simmer. The IL-2 Battle of XXX series is terrific. I have BOS and I've pre-ordered Bodenplatte. Will be buying Kuban very soon. Cliffs of Dover is great. Still going strong and the team there are working on version 5.0 which will add about a dozen more planes and give us the North African campaign. DCS has the Mustang, Spitfire 9, Bf109K and FW 190D. Also that Normandy map. And now with WOTR, unless you have deep pockets, you have some decisions to make! Which one do I buy? Good problem to have.

While they are decent flight games there is no dynamic campaign, that's why WOTR should be the better choice for single player, like WOFF.

BoX has released an ingame carreer mode and not good there is always the PWCG alternative.
Il2-1946 seems also have something simular as WoFF made by the massive mod community.
But I guess it is all a matter of reading the forums and watching Youtube. While I do have IL2-1946/Clod/BoX, I’m simply not an WW2 or jetguy.

As far as I know, there hasn´t been a single air simulator with a dynamic campaign since Falcon 4.0 by MicroProse.(edit, JJJ65 proved my bad memory, BOB and Mig Alleys are good examples too) There are and have been several offline , "career mode", randomly generated mission simulators in which the actions by the player make no real influence. They are all sort of scripted, aleatory missions within a more or less historical background and environment (in this, of course,WOFF, notoriously excels). IL2BOS latest career mode is a serious attempt at creating what Pat Wilson tried in his mod, and is a good try. WOFF´s engine creates a very nice bunch of missions well suited for a very realistic war environment because of the number of squadrons, airbases, historical war phases etc and the way they are all skillfully intertwined. The real gem is the background, the amount of historically researched and depicted squadrons, pilots, airbases, etc,... but the campaing per se, is far from dynamic. Creating a dynamic environment/campaign would be a daunting task for a AAA company, and in the case of WW1 quite a nonsense anyway. Having enemy airbases/factories/railways damaged for a certain period of time due to players action would make much more sense in a modern scenario anyway. So, as offline flight simmers we tend to look for historically well researched , plausible scenarios. We feel them as inmersive but the richness of missions and the campaign itself is quite limited in my opinion.

WOFF's campaign system is way more dynamic than many other so called dynamic campaigns. The normal campaign missions never just repeat they are freshly generated every time you go to fly. Even if you quit and try it again. i.e. they are not just a bunch of pre set missions as found in most sims.
Also the coming and going of regular pilots is tracked, their deaths and so on a lot of things are dynamic. Also we do keep an eye on your player and what he does, for example shooting a friendly will get you in trouble, more than once often get in in mega trouble and so on.

The only thing that isn't is you can't destroy an airfield and expect it to be still destroyed on other days later like F16 Combat Pilot (which had a far more interesting campaign system than Falcon at that time).


We introduced some scripted events for the Gotha and Zep Blitz - as they were historical events and occurred on specific days, and targets were historically specific etc. However even those will still always be somewhat different when you run them.

Pat's campaigns are the closest thing I've seen to WoFF outside older games like Falcon and RB3D. They do track individual pilots and aces in great detail in the latest iterations and include dynamic elements that are above the norm in many respects, they're not quite on WoFF level in other regards but, for the average user's purposes, his app is very adequate and user friendly.

All of the big sims these days have neglected one or both of the most important single player ingredients, the AI. To have a viable SP game you need both to play nicely together. BoX. RoF and DCS have achieved varying levels of success in creating drones that you can fight against but none of them hold a candle to the AI in WoFF, they don't even come close to the candle shop. In fact they're on another planet in another galaxy where candles are a distant rumour. No matter how sophisticated their campaigns become they will never be remotely as good as WoFF's because their AI absolutely stinks to high heaven of developer laziness or abject unwillingness to invest in improvement of what should be a core component of any good combat simulation. In IL-BoX, RoF or DCS the AI doesn't care if it lives or dies and it has no tactical nous whatsoever, it's just a slab of code that fights you until you kill it, usually either very badly or with superhuman accuracy and laser precise flying ability.

If you go and watch Hellshade's latest videos you'll see a Nieuport that just refuses to be shot down. It's wild and unpredictable maneuvers are almost human. The Nieuport makes repeated attempts to disengage rather than carry on the fight under hopeless circumstances and displays competence and an awareness of its' surroundings and situation. It even uses unorthodox and uncoordinated maneuvers in a desperate attempt to turn the tide and escape. WoFF is a perfect showcase of what a good AI should be and anyone who isn't actively trying to either emulate or better is isn't even in the game in terms of being competitive in offering a single player combat flight sim. Comparing Hellshade's video and my own experiences to my experience playing a mission in BoX or RoF's career/PWCG is like comparing chalk and cheese. PWCG is a great app, the new BoX career is well presented, good enough levels of detail to be called a campaign and both are quite adequate until you fly a mission in them. Try something like a 109 or 190 in BoX and watching as your entire flight die in short order because they haplessly tried to out turn a flight of I-16's on the deck at 250-300kph. It is absurd. I often shut the game down in disgust, wondering exactly what the latest patch notes were referring to when they touted "Improvements to AI"

What improvements exactly? Who's AI have 777/1CGS been improving since RoF was released in 2009? I think their AI programmer must forget to submit his work each patch because I certainly haven't seen any progress whatsoever in all that time. The AI in BoX is EXACTLY the same as RoF AI was in 2009. I think they're lying about improving it to be honest Trying a career in RoF is no better, the flight commander tours the lines diving after every single balloon and completely disregarding anything else until archie kills him, either that or he tries to turnfight Dr.1's in his SPAD and dies. PWCG fixes this by removing most of the balloons. DCS AI seems to be pretty much the same, I've never seen it attempt to do anything other than maneuver for a shot. It never flies defensively, never tries to escape, it's always calculating the most efficient path to maneuver for a gun solution and that's all it does. I can't comment on ED's dynamic campaign because there is no such thing which is a mystery to me. Imagine a new Silent Hunter game where you can go into the boat, turn on all the switches and tootle around at sea but apart from that nothing ever happens. Seems like a total waste of time to me unless you really like flicking historically accurate switches. Or perhaps a Formula 1 game where you just drive around the track on your own.

In short the latest sims are offering a single player experience that is either non-existent or a mile wide but an inch deep whereas WoFF offers you depth and breadth that would intimidate Captain Nemo. I sincerely hope that these new companies get their act together and at least get on a competitive footing, until then keep showing them how it's done OBD.

S! Polovski, can we expect new things with dynamic campaign in WOTR ?

Nuff said.

When talking about dynamic campaigns it is necessary to mention Rowan's Mig Alley and Battle of Britain. IMHO, these sims have the best dynamic campaigns I have seen so far. Especially BoBII:WOV with the latest patches is the gem in the subject of campaign complexity.

JimBob the campaign system in WOTR has been redesigned for WW2 - not only specifically for the period we are dealing with, but can cope with other periods in WW2 by adapting the battle orders underlying it. All good stuff, however it still incorporates many good or useful parts of the WOFF campaign.

I am going to have to go with Ace Pilto on this one. While I appreciate and respect what Pat has done with his PWCG, all of his efforts are hamstrung by the effect the horrible AI has on the experience. I just flew another mission in my WOFF UE Jasta 2 career against a pair (maybe more?) of Nieuport pilots. Those little bastards do not want to get shot. It's the kind of flying that makes me come back to WOFF UE over and over again. The campaign in WOFF UE, matched with it's excellent AI, provide a one two punch that knocks out the competition, in my opinion, every time for single player sim experiences.

Oh and fundamental on the Dynamic campaign point that is often missed.. one big "Dynamic" function not found in most sims, is that in WOFF the enemy flights are actually on real missions, not spawned. Enemy troops are out in major battles, tanks etc. All fighting each other.
The world is a living world.

Big difference from spawning a few aircraft or objects along the way or only at the target. In WOFF you can stumble across activity or completely miss it by luck just as in real life.

That is great Pol, but can it be done real time for WOTR? The only thing that kind of brakes this immersion for me that it is not real time, meaning it would be cool if you could see everything on map moving while you are sitting in menu tower.

I guess this is what makes Falcon 4 and Enemy Engaged such great, that you can see it in real time! (and also the destroyable buildings that are destroyed over time).

In enemy engaged you can just sit in the tower and watch the war fight itself if you want to.

While true, a game is a game and for example I would like to be able to change the fate of history,,, that's the charm of video games

Look at Hearts of Iron 4 or Europa Universalis 4 by Paradox, it's a godd example of how to make a sanbox game with historical background.

I'm with ACE and Hellshade also. The ai is unbelievable(in a good way) after having played games like il2 and rof myself. I love the survival instincts of e/ac. The bustards are hard to bag at least for me.In my last mission tonight I had to do forced landing after a roland dived and rolled and climbed and shot me full of holes lol. I could not get a steady bead on that bugger. Love it Great work OBD! Not many games can hold my interest long like I believe WOff will. This is definitely a much needed breath of fresh air for the genre.

How nice of your wingman to steal err come to your aid lol with that nupe lol

AMEN TO THAT!!

I do not think OBD have to convince any Woff owner in buying Wotr, we know what we are getting and that it will be excellent in its own way.

The Wotr market expension is all about the actual combat flysimmer, that is now flying a payware game like BoX, Clod-blitz, DCS or playing the free to get, Falcon, BoB2, il2-1946 & CFS3 expansion packs. How to get these flyers into Wotr and make them pay $60,-

Just a question bout WOTR.Are the differences in plane fighting styles gonna be noticeable?Like FW190 is a boom and zoom type compared to a turn fighter like the Spitfire.Just wondering if the CFS3 engine allows this.....

Could you please tell me where / how to start ?
Where exactly do i find all those mods, from WOFF, on this subforum ?
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php/7-CFS3-General-Discussion
Thank you

I would pay 120 $ if I could get this on GOG or Steam, always loosing my DVDs and download links expire from avangate !

all other flight sims (il 1946, clod, BOX , DCS) are on steam also, just sayin.

Nobody can help me, guys?
I already opened an account on this forum, but i can't post anything, yet

This thread has turned into a free for all, will close it now and open a new one when more news...

Bronx, I don't understand, you just posted here, to say you can't post here?

Mods for WOFF are in the MODS subform?
http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/384/1/wings-over-flanders-fields-mods


Anyway closing this now wild thread.