#4392169 - 11/30/17 08:30 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: leaf_on_the_wind]
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- Ice
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Dear all,
Many thanks for the constructive feedback on the new protection system. It’s essential for us to create the best DCS World experience possible and world class copy protection is important. We have been reading your comments and of particular note is your concern for the three day time frame within which a verification check needs to be completed. We will be carefully considering this and trying to find the best balance of a great DCS World experience for you while successfully protecting our IP. We take this very seriously and should have some feedback for you next week.
For the sake of clarity, this new system (currently only being used for the AV-8B), requires that each time you log into DCS World, the authorization for the module is extended (currently three days). It would only expire after not logging into DCS World for over three days. If you were to go on vacation for example and not be able to log into DCS World for greater than three days, then that is still okay. Upon your return, say three weeks later, you would log into DCS World and the module(s) would be re-authorized. [bThe only complication arises if you are trying to play DCS World with no internet connection for greater than three days. This is the topic we will be re-evaluating.[/b] We hope this all makes better sense now.
Thanks, Wags So it basically checks each and every time you log in, and extends your authorization for 3 days --- why do it every time then? Why not just check if it's been authorized in the last 3 days, if not, then re-check for authorization? Then again, why three days and not some other random timeframe? My favorite part is the bold part and is so hallmark of DCS --- "We've identified an issue and we have no solution for it.... suxx to be you." They actually implemented a protection system and either did not realize that this could happen or realized it could happen but put the protection system in place anyway with no solution should this issue arise. "Dear valued customers" indeed!! I also LOL at "world class copy protection".... if this is so world class, what other games or software uses it?
- Ice
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#4392170 - 11/30/17 08:41 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: 159th_Viper]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 258
IceecI
1975-1997 R.I.P.
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1975-1997 R.I.P.
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Fixing a broken thing doesn't change the fact that it was broken.
Software is never 100% fool-proof, especially not during early-access. If you were expecting things to work 100% flawlessly during this release well then, I'd seriously advise that you lower your expectations, unless of course the intent is that one grabs on any shortcoming as it appears to better aid in the mud-slinging. In that case I would understand why a meal is being made of everything. That's all? Come on you can insult better than that.
Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
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#4392175 - 11/30/17 08:56 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: - Ice]
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Flogger23m
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US
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Exactly one of the points!! What if you last played three days ago, and on the fourth day, you want to play but your ISP is having issues or is "upgrading services in your area"? Are you SoL then?
You will also see that if you look around, pirates always get around DRM and the only real victims of DRM are the legit users in some cases.
Yeah this sounds far too intrusive. The only stretch I can see for justifying this is maybe one of their customers/licensees on the military/government/corporate (Boeing/Lockheed/Sukhoi) requires it... but we certainly cannot be sure of that. All I can say is this is a disaster for the customers. I can understand some DRM but this crosses a line. And it is very unacceptable to change the DRM on a product already paid for such as the Harrier, IMO.
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#4392187 - 11/30/17 09:17 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: Flogger23m]
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
cichlidfan
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And it is very unacceptable to change the DRM on a product already paid for such as the Harrier, IMO.
I suspect the EULA allows ED to change anything they want without notice.
Last edited by cichlidfan; 11/30/17 09:45 PM.
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1
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#4392214 - 11/30/17 10:47 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: AggressorBLUE]
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,488
MarkG
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The Bayou
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The other big drawback is, that ED has full control over your software: they can allways withdraw your license to use the software. This is what will keep me from ever agreeing with this type of arrangement with *any* of my media (music, movies and games). It's a simple test...if I can't include it in my Will (which I keep current), I'll never buy it. You can transfer your UN and PW, which by default will now contain your entire collection. Not ideal, but that can be included in your Will. Really, what we've lost with this system is the ability to sell individual modules. Not great, but par for the digital course, sadly. Also, based on that test, how do you handle buying: -a meal at a restaurant? -air fair and hotel bookings? -Pretty much any service based offering? I'm not seeing the relevance, since none of those are tangible media. The only related services I have are my ISP and DirecTV (basic package, mainly for news). My music is roughly 90% CDs (burned to MP3) and 10% non-DRM MP3s. My movies and favorite TV series are on DVD and Blu-ray. None of my media is attached to an online service, I'm being an old ornery holdout.
Last edited by MarkG; 11/30/17 10:50 PM.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
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#4392221 - 11/30/17 11:11 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: Flogger23m]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
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Yeah this sounds far too intrusive. Okay, I've officially entered another dimension and the proof is that cichlidfan and now Flogger is agreeing with me. Anyone know how I can get back to my own dimension?? The only stretch I can see for justifying this is maybe one of their customers/licensees on the military/government/corporate (Boeing/Lockheed/Sukhoi) requires it... but we certainly cannot be sure of that. That's quite a stretch. How does implementing DRM for one customer (mil) affect the other (us) and vice versa? Heck, do you need to worry about piracy for a military program? I'm pretty sure whatever aircraft ED has developed, the "other guys" already know more than we do. All I can say is this is a disaster for the customers. I can understand some DRM but this crosses a line. And it is very unacceptable to change the DRM on a product already paid for such as the Harrier, IMO. Oh God... this is so unreal....
- Ice
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#4392223 - 11/30/17 11:22 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: - Ice]
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
cichlidfan
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Welcome to the twilight zone. Okay, I've officially entered another dimension and the proof is that cichlidfan and now Flogger is agreeing with me. Anyone know how I can get back to my own dimension??
You will need ruby slippers for that.
Last edited by cichlidfan; 11/30/17 11:36 PM.
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1
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#4392225 - 11/30/17 11:42 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: Pooch]
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 136
Monnie Rock
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. But no more buys from me. Oh God....unless an F4 Phantom came out! Damn. But it's not gonna happen. Belsimtek activity in 2017 After release of Tiger and Magnificent Eight at the end of 2016 almost all our effort was relayed to development of F/A-18 DCS module in cooperation with Eagle Dynamics. In this project we are handling dynamics, avionics and systems, FCS (Flight Control System) included. In parallel we continue our work on exciting project for fans of combat helicopters - the attack helicopter Mi-24P (was a long time since we pleased our helicopter enthusiasts, and ourselves as developers, by a war machine with rotor dynamics). Also we started development of the famous fighter-bomber F-4E.We are planning to post updates about each project in future. Wish you to have a great time learning available DCS World modules and hope you will like quality of the upcoming ones. With respect, Belsimtek Team. F-4E development news by the end of October 2017. BST Announced Mi-24P and F-4E on ED Forums
Poll Eagle Dynamics New DRM Expiration Period Limit Rack Rig:Rosewill RSV-L4000|Koolance ERM-3K3UC|i7-4960x @ 5ghz w/EK Monoblock|Asus Rampage IV Black Edition|64GB 2133mhz|EVGA TitanX Superclocked w/ EK Waterblock|2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB in RAID 0|Lepa 1600w PSU|Win 10 Pro 64bit|TM Warthog w/20cm Extension|MFG Crosswind Rudders|Obutto R3volution
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#4392228 - 11/30/17 11:52 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: leaf_on_the_wind]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch
Hotshot
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Hotshot
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Orlando, FL
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Well, I'll be damned! I'll be watching. Should have the money saved up be the time it comes out in 2025....ONLY KIDDING!
"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace." Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia
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#4392230 - 11/30/17 11:55 PM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: Frederf]
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 136
Monnie Rock
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Member
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I can't believe there is no indefinite offline play ability. Are you really sure? The current state of DRM on the Harrier is, after 3 days(under evaluation ) if you do not log into your username account, the Harrier module will not operate. Period. Single player nor multiplayer(obviously you have no connectivity)
Last edited by Monnie Rock; 11/30/17 11:57 PM.
Poll Eagle Dynamics New DRM Expiration Period Limit Rack Rig:Rosewill RSV-L4000|Koolance ERM-3K3UC|i7-4960x @ 5ghz w/EK Monoblock|Asus Rampage IV Black Edition|64GB 2133mhz|EVGA TitanX Superclocked w/ EK Waterblock|2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB in RAID 0|Lepa 1600w PSU|Win 10 Pro 64bit|TM Warthog w/20cm Extension|MFG Crosswind Rudders|Obutto R3volution
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#4392233 - 12/01/17 12:04 AM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: leaf_on_the_wind]
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Joined: Jan 2001
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KraziKanuK
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LOL, every time ED/DCS tries to put out a smoldering 'fire' the 'fire' grows larger in size.
There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB. The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed. There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
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#4392234 - 12/01/17 12:05 AM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: leaf_on_the_wind]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch
Hotshot
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Hotshot
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Orlando, FL
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Never mind about that F4E Phantom. Maybe 777 will have one by the time it's released! Lol!!!! Honestly, I'm laughing as I write this. You can't help it!!!
"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace." Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia
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#4392243 - 12/01/17 12:58 AM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: Speyer]
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 517
159th_Viper
Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
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Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
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Just LOL at Sith and Viper (not even a mod there I think) trying to put the multiple fires out on the DCS forum. It's a terrible drm system, and a bait and switch bringing it in after people had bought the AV8. Not trying to put fires out at all - just attempting to separate the wheat from the chaff and get real concerns put forward to the Devs which would otherwise be drowned out by the illogical, unconstructive rants of the vocal few as is usually the case when change is contemplated.
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#4392248 - 12/01/17 01:19 AM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: 159th_Viper]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
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LOL, every time ED/DCS tries to put out a smoldering 'fire' the 'fire' grows larger in size. Might be best not to be gathering dried kindling and other flammable materials in the first place Not trying to put fires out at all - just attempting to separate the wheat from the chaff and get real concerns put forward to the Devs which would otherwise be drowned out by the illogical, unconstructive rants of the vocal few as is usually the case when change is contemplated. Sorry, but nobody thought that this DRM was messed up to start with? Nobody thought doing so RIGHT AFTER release was bad timing? You guys need a community outcry for that? And please stop blaming change. Change is expected and good changes are welcomed. ED makes silly decisions like these and then try to blame the outcry as if people don't like ANY sort of change? C'mon.... we're all adults here.
- Ice
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#4392250 - 12/01/17 01:23 AM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: leaf_on_the_wind]
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd
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Just been skipping through the ED forum. The rate they're going the only customer they'll have left will be viper. Check out his opinion of concerned customers "chaff, illogical, unconstructive, rants" ED are doing their best to destroy what they have left, there's no need for you, viper, to drive their customers away too.
DCS Kickstarter Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable." Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
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#4392253 - 12/01/17 01:28 AM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: Johnny_Redd]
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 517
159th_Viper
Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
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Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 517
Texas, USA
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Just been skipping through the ED forum. The rate they're going the only customer they'll have left will be viper. Check out his opinion of concerned customers "chaff, illogical, unconstructive, rants"
ED are doing their best to destroy what they have left, there's no need for you, viper, to drive their customers away too. Oh I am sure that ED will be OK having survived Starforce and then Starforce Proactive and now the new contemplated DRM. It’s been the same outcry every time but TFC/ED keep on trucking.
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#4392254 - 12/01/17 01:33 AM
Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch
[Re: Johnny_Redd]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 258
IceecI
1975-1997 R.I.P.
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1975-1997 R.I.P.
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 258
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Just been skipping through the ED forum. The rate they're going the only customer they'll have left will be viper. Check out his opinion of concerned customers "chaff, illogical, unconstructive, rants" ED are doing their best to destroy what they have left, there's no need for you, viper, to drive their customers away too. Yea, it's unbelieveable how low some people can go.
Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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