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#4390123 - 11/17/17 01:58 PM OT: WWI sims heat up again  
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Hellshade Offline
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It was announced on the IL2 Sturmovik forums by the developers that they will take the first steps to re-creating RoF within the newer, BoX engine. This limited first step will be to refurbish 10 existing RoF planes within BoX and create a 100km x 100k map of an area within France featuring some towns and a NML section.

No campaign
No career mode

The newer BoX engine does have some exciting technology though such as being 64 bit and DX11. I have no idea what the AI is like in BoX. Hopefully its improved over RoF which in it's current form has limited capabilities, at best.

I think this is some very exciting news though, because it means there is some renewed interest in developing WWI flight sims again. 777 appears to clearly be focusing on MP for its initial steps of the RoF/BoX conversion and that's something they are good at. I genuinely hope it's successful. It also gives me hope that OBD will do the same (as they have stated they intend to) and upgrade WOFF UE with the improvements from the WOTR engine. The best will continue to get better.

Just when I thought WWI sim development was going to be on the back burner for a long time, it has unexpectedly begun to heat up again. Even though there is nothing tangible yet (pre-orders won't be taken until Q1 of 2018) it's still a nice early Christmas present.

Last edited by Hellshade; 11/17/17 02:16 PM.

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#4390169 - 11/17/17 05:13 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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#4390186 - 11/17/17 06:22 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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Stache Online content
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Let me know when (if ever) it has these...

Originally Posted by Hellshade


No campaign
No career mode



Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

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#4390193 - 11/17/17 06:44 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Yep, Stache. WOFF UE will be the king of SP campaigning for a very long time to come. Eye catching graphics are awesome, but if the campaign / career is missing or if the AI remains overly simple, then the appeal will be limited to MP only for the vast majority of WWI sim fliers. That said, the devs did state that this was only their first step in recreating RoF in the BoX engine and further development will hinge upon how well their initial work is received. Maybe they should hire OBD to write the campaign mode so it could be done properly. LOL


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#4390244 - 11/18/17 12:56 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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Originally Posted by Hellshade
That said, the devs did state that this was only their first step in recreating RoF in the BoX engine and further development will hinge upon how well their initial work is received. Maybe they should hire OBD to write the campaign mode so it could be done properly. LOL

When they get a good campaign up and running, that is when I will buy in. I followed the original RoF from it's days as a mod and as soon as they announced the pay-per-plane system, I knew there would never be a good campaign system because it wasn't monetized... I did buy the Ice edition because I wanted to support them some and that was what I could afford for a game that I have literally put only a couple of hours into in the last several years. But that's it, I am voting with my dollars and if they come around to my way of thinking, I would be happy to back them. Until then, WOFF on!

#4390264 - 11/18/17 03:40 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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While I love WOFF UE and I will support anything OBD does(WOTR or WOFF UE+++...) it would be a shame if people simply stayed away from ROF II because 1C is
going to do a small initial offering. In their own words, this is the plan.

"Flying Circus will finally give our loyal and patient Rise of Flight customers a new way forward into the future! Our eventual goal is to essentially re-build ROF inside of the Sturmovik universe and give WWI all the latest technology like VR, 64bit, DX11 and improved visuals. We will start by focusing on re-furbishing ten of our existing WWI airplanes and providing a partial map of France to fly and fight over. Subsequent Flying Circus products will further expand content and we’ll work to integrate Flying Circus into our Campaign and Career systems over time. Volume I is merely the first important step and it will be a lot of fun!If Flying Circus proves popular we can eventually fire up the Great War assembly line and break out the canvas and timber once again to make some new crates!"

I am a SP person myself and I understand and Love the Dynamic, Scripted and Career Campaigns and would want that more than anything. The thing is, if the only way ROF II can be produced by 1C is the way which is outlined above then I will support it because who else is going to be offering WWI content in the next 1.5 years??? Maybe OBD, but I see their hands being full with WOTR for quite some time. Correct me if I am wrong??? Believe me I am keeping a
watchful eye on what 1C is doing to improve the weak parts of the BOX series and see if they really come through. The Hyperlobyish MP Lobby, The Career Mode, the individual flight HOTAS profiles, The Self Hosted COOP,

The Air Marshall MP mode,THE AI, THE AI, THE AI!!! I am posting this every time I get a chance and I wish others would also so that 1C will get the message that these components will make a
great Flight Sim and draw the Customers who will purchase their products and perpetuate the cycle so that we can have 2 of the Greatest WWI Flight Sims of all time, WOFF UE and ROF/ROFII. Now if they throw out a Complete Rubbish War Thunder like Arcade want to be like BOS initially was, then 1C will Reap the Whirlwind for that. Honestly, I think they have learned their lesson, at least I hope they have, that if their product is not FUN and cutting edge with new twists that they will slowly put themselves out of business. Only time will tell.
I as a fellow simmer I would just ask that the people in the WOFF UE Community keep an open mind about watching to see how 1C updates and improves the BOX series over the next year, or doesn't, whichever the case might be. If they come through on their promised updates for BOX, then it should be relatively safe to say that they will come through on ROF II as well. If they don't, well God help them or they won't survive a second debacle. I don't know about you, but I want as many Quality WWI Flight Sims as I can have. There are things I Love about WOFF UE and there are things I hate, so to with ROF, but in the end they both occupy my free time and Entertain me in unique ways. I hope this Community will not make it a competition between WOFF UE and ROF/ROFII because that would be a shame and only assure its own slow demise from Current Production WWI Flight Sims.

S!Blade<><

Last edited by Blade_Meister; 11/19/17 04:25 AM.
#4390273 - 11/18/17 05:28 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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I hope they do well, but they never lived up to the campaign- end of RoF. Except for the work of Pat Wilson, it's essentially been abandoned... I'm going to take a wait and see approach on this one... Other people who are more into the online aspect will come down on the other side of that stance. The fact that they are branching out in so many directions seems to indicate that they feel there is a market for it..

#4390288 - 11/18/17 09:05 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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Great news for WW1 combat flysim fans. Competition can only be good for both games and real WW1 flysim fans.
I hope it is not an MP and only single mission game. So if it would be an no campaign or in RoF terms; no career mode game, then it will be a nogo for me, still remember the first eagles & WoW miss buyings.

edit: oeps forgot something, it is based on BoX game engine so Pat Wilson can port his PW-CG to this new Rof2 game, problem solved, campaign mode is included, I’m in for the pre-order only now I do need a VRgen2 device, because Rof2 can handle VR.

Last edited by dutch; 11/18/17 11:52 AM. Reason: Rof2 does have an campaign mode
#4390354 - 11/18/17 07:14 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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well I guess this had to happen eventually. I'm gona guess that this too will be just a Mass furball sim like ROF was/is.
Never intended for solo Campaigning like WOFF. True Pat Wilson will be the saver of this sim as well. But who knows, it will be online and depending on just
how hard or easy it is to write missions etc could make this interesting.


make mistakes and learn from them

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#4390366 - 11/18/17 09:29 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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I give Pat all the kudos for doing a great job creating a campaign system for RoF but since he never got access to the code, even he couldn't do anything about the overly simplistic AI. If the Flying Circus still has the same AI, well...it becomes a new paint job on an old car. I expect the SP campaigning crown to remain on WOFF UEs head for a very long time to come but for MP, FC could be a lot of fun if they do it right.


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#4390386 - 11/19/17 01:31 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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I can only be grateful to ROF for having crappy AI and forcing me to find something else. I've never looked back and I'm not about to. Remember all the promises of porting all the improvements back from BOS? Never happened. Fool me once, shame on you ... no wait!...


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4390388 - 11/19/17 01:37 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Fullofit]  
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Remember all the promises of porting all the improvements back from BOS? Never happened. Fool me once, shame on you ... no wait!...


Instead of porting the enhancements back into 32 bit RoF, they are bringing it forward into the new 64 bit engine. If you look at any recent videos for Battle of Stalingrad, Moscow, etc...you can see the quality of the engine they have developed. Graphically and performance wise, it is good. Campaign and AI? I have no idea.


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#4390392 - 11/19/17 02:56 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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We’re talking some 3 years back when those promises were made. If they’d kept them and made those improvements way back then, then we would be flying ROF that looks like BOS now, instead of waiting all this time for a new 64-bit engine. There was nothing wrong graphically or performance wise with the old engine anyways. All it needed was better AI. I really can’t get excited about new engine if the AI is still the same. And let’s face it, we’ve been spoiled by WOFFAI (tm).


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4390401 - 11/19/17 04:46 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Fullofit]  
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
We’re talking some 3 years back when those promises were made. If they’d kept them and made those improvements way back then, then we would be flying ROF that looks like BOS now, instead of waiting all this time for a new 64-bit engine. There was nothing wrong graphically or performance wise with the old engine anyways. All it needed was better AI. I really can’t get excited about new engine if the AI is still the same. And let’s face it, we’ve been spoiled by WOFFAI (tm).


Totally agree about the AI. The 64bit DX11 upgrade plus the Optimization and Limited AI improvements that have happened in BOX so far have made it a much more efficient and Fun SP game. There are many more assets in the air and on the ground which bring the Sim to life. For the SP I think a Good AI such as WOFF UE has will bring BOX and the Future "Flying Circus" to life either through PWCG or possibly the new Career Mode. Honestly, in ROF I was not very happy with the Career Mode. It was very lifeless and had very few assets in each mission. IMHO, PWCG blew it away. I think maybe that is why 1C have been so reluctant to build a Career for Box because after all of the hard work 777 put into their Career most SPs were of the opinion that PWCG was better. I never used the ROF Career after Patrick really cranked up PWCG and got it rolling. I still use it to this day. If 1C can take all of the Major Advances that have been made in the DNE engine and port them into the initial "Flying Circus" offering, then ROF II should be very good, even if it is only MP. That is IMHO of course.

S!Blade<><

#4390413 - 11/19/17 08:13 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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No game is perfect, nor WoFF nor RoF nor will be FC. While here WoFFans complain about AI in RoF, RoFans are complaining about the FM in WoFF. And if being solved another aspect will be highlited.

Also the whole WW2 BoX scene is complaining about AI and sure 1C will fix this. But let me guess, if the AI in FC is improved you all leave WoFF and go for FC, I suppose.

I'm also pissed, about that promises Jason always make to keep the sales going on. I did pre-order this RoF game in 2009 and I have paid all the RoF items in the RoF store even the ones that are now for free.
And now, a new WW1 game will cost me another $70,- for a BoX-engine that only support 10 planes max swapped from RoF. Will there be an FC2 or FC3??? It is a risc, WW1 is not popular, but I will take the risc, if it is on preorder.

Personally it will be a expensive game for me, I have to exchange the GTX1080 to an GTX1180 and get a nextGen VR set. But overall, I’m pleased that WW1 is still in the picture.

Last edited by dutch; 11/19/17 12:26 PM.
#4390416 - 11/19/17 09:25 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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If only WOFF was also online possible....


make mistakes and learn from them

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#4390439 - 11/19/17 01:27 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: dutch]  
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Originally Posted by dutch
Also the whole WW2 BoX scene is complaining about AI and sure 1C will fix this. But let me guess, if the AI in FC is improved you all leave WoFF and go for FC, I suppose.


Agreed, no sim is perfect. However I doubt seriously that many WOFFers will "leave" for the Flying Circus even if they do update the AI. I'd rather have 80, DX9 planes in an immersive campaign than 10, DX11 planes without a campaign.

And from the sounds of it, BoX folks are complaining about the AI now, so it doesn't sound like that part of the equation will change any time soon.

My hope is with 777 advertising FC on steam, more folks will also find WOFF UE once they get a taste of FCs AI and lack of single player experience.


Last edited by Hellshade; 11/19/17 01:31 PM.

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#4390446 - 11/19/17 02:33 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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.

I am another who purchased everything 777 offered for ROF and even helped out on some items for Pat's Campaign Generator. But I've not fired up ROF in many months. I enjoy it as a flight simulator but not really much beyond that. I likely won't be jumping in on FC as, like dutch, I would need to build a whole new flying computer to get it to handle 777's newest product. Perhaps someday when I win the lottery. None-the-less, it is good to see another WWI flight sim coming along.

.


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#4390453 - 11/19/17 03:15 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

I am another who purchased everything 777 offered for ROF and even helped out on some items for Pat's Campaign Generator. But I've not fired up ROF in many months. I enjoy it as a flight simulator but not really much beyond that. I likely won't be jumping in on FC as, like dutch, I would need to build a whole new flying computer to get it to handle 777's newest product. Perhaps someday when I win the lottery. None-the-less, it is good to see another WWI flight sim coming along.

.

That is not necessarily true Sir. My rig is an AMD Phenom II 955 BE running at 3.4ghz stock, stock fan, no overclocking with 16GB DDR3 2100mhz? an EVGA GTX770 4GB OCed just a bit, 750watt PS with HDDs at 7200rpms? I get around 30FPS on the ground in most sims, 40+ above 1000m and usually 50+ above 3000m. I like my EYE Candy and run WOFF UE on maxed graphics, ROF on maxed graphics and BOX on Ultra. DCS Normandy is a different story and I haven't really played with the graphics settings because I was having issues and got frustrated and I am just waiting a bit to try again. BOX runs really well for me in the Scripted Campaigns, and PWCG with many assets in
missions. VR is what would kill my rig, so I am waiting to build a new rig this next year and hopefully step up to the next generation of Hi Res VR. My rig as it stands is 7 or more years old, top of the line for maybe 3 months when I built it. Now I am probably at the bottom of the required specs for most Sims. rolleyes Would be glad to share my NVCP and game settings if anyone wants them.
I to purchased everything 777 sold for ROF and did many give aways just to support them. I guess I am just a sucker for WWI and the feeling of the flight models for ROF, so i will buy in again, and if they get the AI to more challenging form that will just be a bonus. For me , the FM in ROF is simply unmatched, but then the boring AI is the detractor. Here is to Hoping they get the AI correct and that Jason gets Patrick Wilson involved early so that PWCG will be available in the Pre Release and for the Official release.

S!Blade<><

Last edited by Blade_Meister; 11/20/17 03:51 PM.
#4390455 - 11/19/17 03:33 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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Blade, my current system specs are as follows:

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core, OC’d to 3.8GHz
CPU Fan: Arctic Super Cooler
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16gb (4 x 4gb) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Mobo: ASUS Sabertooth P67
Hard Drives: 2 Western Digital 640 GB Caviar Black SATA
Opti Drive: LG 22X DVD+/RW Dual Layer SATA Rewrite
Video Cards: Two EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-3975-KR 4gb cards with HB SLI bridge
PS: Corsair HX 850 Watt
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
LG 27" flat screen LCD monitor, 1920 x 1080 native resolution
Four large case fans, plus the PS, CPU, mobo, and card fans
Saitek AV8R joystick
Saitek Pro Flight rudder pedals
Track IR4 camera with latest IR5 software

It runs WOFF UE beautifully and runs ROF well as long as I am not in a big furball. Do you feel it could run the upcoming FC without issues?

Salute!

Lou

.

#4390460 - 11/19/17 04:17 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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dutch Offline
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As long if you stay out of VR, your rig can handle Bos so also FC1. My i5-2500k was overclocked to 4,8Ghz and the HD7970 to OC 1125mhz never did I face problems in running Bos. It is just a matter of tweaking your settings and stay out Supersampling and other recource eaters. Unlike Woff the Box 64bit game engine does spread its CPU load.

#4390488 - 11/19/17 07:03 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
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Why would I leave WoFF for RoF 2?
Why does it always come down to this tripe?
I have bought everything that the dev's have put out for both WoFF and RoF... you do know that it is possible to love both games and play them both as well!
Both games have something to bring to the WWI table. They both have good and not so good points, just as with any game...
To be honest, the only thing I am likely to leave behind when RoF 2 (FC) comes out, is RoF I... I will still continue to support WoFF as per usual...

#4390504 - 11/19/17 08:14 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Trooper117]  
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Originally Posted by Trooper117
Why would I leave WoFF for RoF 2?
Why does it always come down to this tripe?
I have bought everything that the dev's have put out for both WoFF and RoF... you do know that it is possible to love both games and play them both as well!
Both games have something to bring to the WWI table. They both have good and not so good points, just as with any game...
To be honest, the only thing I am likely to leave behind when RoF 2 (FC) comes out, is RoF I... I will still continue to support WoFF as per usual...


+1. I will buy either WOFF UE or ROF II content. I will probably still use ROF because of the larger plane set than the initial Flying Circus will offer. Can't Waite.

S!Blade<><

#4390505 - 11/19/17 08:23 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 5
Penfold_UK Offline
Junior Member
Penfold_UK  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Trooper117
Why would I leave WoFF for RoF 2?
Why does it always come down to this tripe?
I have bought everything that the dev's have put out for both WoFF and RoF... you do know that it is possible to love both games and play them both as well!
Both games have something to bring to the WWI table. They both have good and not so good points, just as with any game...
To be honest, the only thing I am likely to leave behind when RoF 2 (FC) comes out, is RoF I... I will still continue to support WoFF as per usual...


This.. If I could still run Red Baron II/3D properly I would play that too. I play both RoF and WoFF.


[Linked Image]
#4390519 - 11/20/17 12:59 AM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 171
ARUP Offline
Member
ARUP  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 171
Kentucky
ROF was very appealing but, personally, I could never get support to even get the SIM up and running on my rig. To say I was disappointed would be putting it mildly. The ROF crew did see fit to continue trying to sell more 'add-ons' or whatever you call them even after repeated requests for them to drop my addy from their sales roster. If I could ever have gotten it to run I'm sure I would have had some fun with ROF. I will welcome any WWI flight SIM even if their support is half as good as it is with WOFF. WOFF is the BEST!!! I really enjoyed Red Baron 3D and I like the music it has the best! lol I'd load it into my WOFF game but I'm afraid of causing problems. I'm not very tech savvy.

#4390600 - 11/20/17 06:47 PM Re: OT: WWI sims heat up again [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
dutch Offline
Member
dutch  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
EURO-zone
I have nearly exchanged all the Woff game music by other music or by the original version, with no problems. While Matt does make a very good game music, sometimes it is nice to hear something different usely based on nostalgic feelings. No problems if using the JSGMEtool.
I have as intro very scary music like something happen thats is not good.

And about why leaving Woff, I think more members here will leave Woff not because of FC but because of Wotr.

For me I have always supported a good WW1 game. Still remember at the first day of release from OFF3, I did consulting Olham, if everthing was good, (DVD and payments). Was afraid of preordering, shipments and the online payments. :-)

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