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#4390056 - 11/17/17 01:19 AM Using multi joysticks & pads.........  
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blit_ZEN Offline
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(lots of error edited & fixed, make sense now, i hope)
Wow, well I had a new TM HOTAS w/ only 10 buttons so I put my old x52
on board and set radar tilt & range on throttle dials, they work sort of, but not well nuff for this job.
The numbers for the altitude on the left MFD were red, indicating radar was scaning underground.
so for days, I cant figure the radar. When I pulled the plug on the x52, everything starts working.

So now a new TM HOTAS (only 10 buttons) for flying and x52 for other stuff. except now when i plug in x52 2nd button 1 is like button 33
in Falcon menu, this skips all important stuff.

Any way to fix that, or just renable/program x52/buttons/dials 1 by 1?

What i mean is so the x52 would pick up the next processes after the TM run out of buttons.
I guess If i reprogram the X52 combined with the other HOTAS I got almost as many controls available as a new Warthog but the are all over the place.
Also I am not sure I trust the X52, it is old and seem to sorta have intermittent problems. Any suggestions for $300 Hota & under would be appreciated

I am lookin at a new.used warthog for $350 working on $300 but then i need pedals, twist is fine in this sim.

Any way I wasted like 20-30 hours on the x52 & stuff not working right, i hate to waste any more.

Sorry about the other posts, I can not delete them.....................

Anyway people with multi input gadgets, is this more of a headache than its worth, should i just buck up & get a really modern HOTAS w/ enuff buttons to do the whole job?


Last edited by blit_ZEN; 11/17/17 02:00 AM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4390059 - 11/17/17 01:56 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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350 for a used WH is a fair price. I paid nearly that much for each of my two Cougars.Haven't heard of too many issues with the WH other than the yoke for the stick being a weak point for guys who use force sensing or the crank and yank types.

Not sure I understand the issue you are having with the X52. Are you using DX programming or using a profile? There is some documentation included with your install that might help.

Attached Files joystick profiles.PNG

[Linked Image]
#4390060 - 11/17/17 02:16 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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blit_ZEN Offline
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Thank Schniderman, sorry post is flaky looking, i fixxed up a bit.

When I just used the X52 w/ X52 menu it was ok except the rotary dials on the
throttle were screwy enuff that radar range & elev were botched. Thus no radar
workin right. when I when to keys for radar elev/range all was ok.

The x52 i have is 1/2 working so I went with DX programing with the TM PS4 HOTAS
for throttle and joystick for control and first 10 ten buttons are stock & seem ok.

WHen x52 is put on 1st button is like dx#33, if I go & reassign them they seem to work
but u have to take hands off the controls to use x52 inputs, not great but I have trim assigned to
one of the view 4 way things. I also put the radar elev on the X52 throttle & it is handy. Now i guess
I gotta learn what to use so I know where to put it.

I can finally take on Novice MiG 21 in DogFight & sometimes not die, MiG29 & SU27 w/ good pilots
I am dead in 30 seconds at 40 miles, 4 aamram/2 sidewinders launched, no hits and here they come.

Anyway I guess links to how & what to program & how to use it would help. recs for best vids appreciated
there are millions of hours of f4 stuff findinf what i need is ongoing.

I am gonna call the Warthog seller & try for $300, These at least are HD enuff they will last a long time
and they have all kind of hardware available.

#4390114 - 11/17/17 01:33 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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Warthog would be great, and you'd be able to get many more commands on it, as well as have your pick of profiles to download and make your life easier.

Quote
I am dead in 30 seconds at 40 miles, 4 aamram/2 sidewinders launched, no hits and here they come.


That will come. Four misses with slammers is odd, and probably because you're firing outside of effective range? 40 miles would be way too far, if that's indeed what you're saying. The DLZ on the right side of the HUD gives you the info you need to launch in range. Ideally you wait for 'no escape', but that's not always prudent, and sometimes it's best to fire at long range to put your opponent on the defensive.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4390240 - 11/18/17 12:22 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: DBond]  
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The pre made profiles from people who have been at it for years seem like a better idea than me just putting one together thru trial & error. Anyway I will call this cat tonight & see if he can wait till 1st week of Dec (no $$ till then) if I pay $350 (no haggles if ya hold it). Then all I need will be a foot/rudder gadget & a mic to come on line.

Regarding the lack of hits, since I had finally gotten my radar to work (for me) I set up a DF, Team Furball, me in the newest F-16 there is vs 1 SU27 & 1 MiG29S set middle skill 30k feet 40 miles.

I picked 40 miles to give me some time to work on radar skills, so I might have time to lock em up b4 they cut loose w/AA12s. I did let some go early to make em run so I could fire again but these guys were good at just vanishing off my MFD then reappearing a distance away, hard 2 lock on. They kept getting closer & as I ran out of missiles they were like 5-10 miles away.

In DF against MiG 17/19 rookies I can manage, MiG 21s get dangerous enuff when I have to have to DF one. If i see a flight of MIG 29, I Amraam & run, for now.

The most incredible aspect of this sim is how much there is to do. I saved a campaign mission so I could restart & do-over in event of tuff luck. I speny like 20 hours on day 2 at 2 pm.
I reflew missions till I got it right, I created missions, tons of them w/ A-10 & Cobra helis attackin red tanks & watch, created B1 & B2 missions here & there. There is so much to do it is flat out stunning.

See even right now I should go with the Warthog & move along yet I am rambling about all there is to do in the most fun & challenging sim I have been in since FALCON3!

#4390398 - 11/19/17 04:03 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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Oh jeez I was just using RWS & locking b4 a missile launch, I just learned a little about TWS from this video here.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=5SKI9_36AWg and by taking a few notes I was able to DF 2 MiG 19+2 MiG 21 (1 MiG21 Veteran). Ok it was 30 miles & everyone has missiles. I managed 7 kills using aim9/aim120& gun before I was killed.

Just using the RWS everyone knew everything b4 I launched 1st missile. Using TWS 4 missiles 4 targets w/o a lock on or SST stuff, wow.

#4391462 - 11/26/17 01:47 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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Wow, is it just me or is anyone else struggling to understand what blit is saying?

Let me have a try:
1. The X-52 should have enough buttons to be a good HOTAS for BMS, but IIRC you'll need to access the shifted layer as well.
2. Rudder is not very important in BMS and you can tie your NWS to ROLL input for taxi.
3. Radar tilt should be on the throttle but radar range is actually NOT on the throttle.
4. Button numbering (button 33) should not be an issue, you can map controls to it as well.
5. +1 to recommending the TM WH.
6. As for multi-input, I have two touchscreens, a TrackIR, TM WH, Saitek Combat Rudder pedals, voice input (via VAC), and the usual kb/mouse input. No issues here.
7. Range engagements (40nm) is highly dependent on what you're firing and what his aspect is to you. I would not be firing until well into the WEZ.


- Ice
#4391554 - 11/26/17 11:31 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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Sorry 4 being unclear, I will try not to type when I cant see strait from flying too much.

1. My x52 is beat up & old & unfunctional. I considered a new one cause they are cheap & ok
for this kind of sim but I like this one better https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T16000M-FCS-Flight-Pack/dp/B01N2PE8CZ
My X52 got beat it up in WW2 sims, not what it was made for.

2 i understand but sometimes use rudder to yaw & shoot, not real often though.

3 I got it, now, thank you.

4 i under stand now.

5. gone now, but new ones are around the $350 now.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuPX9nbHd1wIVGEwNCh3-2QEUEAkYASABEgJBCPD_BwE&is=REG&sku=743173#itemcode&smp=y&kwid=ZSMP&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&BI=225&c3api=1876,116777138042,,

6 go ya, thanks. I saw a nice set up with MS sidewinder FFB Xbox controllor & sega controller. They all work fine together.

7 go ya........

The main problem is there is so much to address I have a hard time staying focused or not starting 1/2 dozen new threads for all the questions I have..............
I need 1 or 2 monitors & new graphics card & 2 more touchy monitors and.............................

Thanks ICE, few people butcher english as well as me & I was born in US and learned it from day 1, sorry.

#4391562 - 11/27/17 01:15 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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No need to apologize smile

1. How old is your X52? I would not really expect it to last very long; might be time for an upgrade wink

2. You only really use rudder in the F-16 for taxiing or in dogfights.... and even then only when trying to make or evade a guns kill. Don't get me wrong, you will want a rudder setup of some sort eventually, all I'm saying is that you can live without it for the short term. I would prioritize other things such as a touchscreen or TrackIR over rudders, and I would not base any HOTAS purchase decisions on the availability of a twist function. However, I'm not that much into WWII so my priorities are more F-16 centered; I totally understand how rudder is much more important in WWII or helicopter sims.

3. If you look at p.28 of the Dash-1 manual, you will see that ANT ELEV controls radar elevation but the RANGE knob only adjusts GAIN or FOV. It took me a while to wrap my head around this, especially since I "thought" I knew how it was supposed to work smile

5. Even at full price, I would say the TM WH is worth every penny and more..... but only if you're serious in flight simming. It's a very, very cheap HOTAS for what it brings to the hobby, but it's a very, very, very expensive paperweight. On the plus side, if you decide to flog it, it usually goes quite quick! Just remember to keep the box and foam inserts!

6. Multi-input setups are fine.... but some of them require a bit of a "dance" as well. For instance, I use YAME64 to extract MFD displays and gauges onto my touchscreens, but YAME does not like it if TARGET is started after YAME is running. I have to start TARGET first, then YAME, otherwise YAME will crash. So I have a startup sequence for bringing the jet to life but I also have a startup sequence for bringing my gear online as well biggrin



BTW, what does "go ya" mean?

What is your current hardware config? PC specs? Sim gear? At the very least, I would recommend 1 display monitor, 1 touchscreen monitor, HOTAS, TrackIR, headset with mic. Software-wise, I'd recommend YAME64 for display extraction, VAC or Voice Attack for voice commands, TeamSpeak 3 for obvious reasons, and the profiling software of whatever HOTAS you have (Saitek SST? TARGET? Foxy?). The rabbit hole can go as deep as your pockets allow, but no sense in breaking the bank on day 1.

As for your questions, feel free to keep them coming. Start new threads or append them to this one if you think previous concerns have been adequately addressed; I'm sure nobody would mind and would be glad to help out. Worst case scenario is we'll have to pass you onto the official BMS forums for better help....


- Ice
#4391585 - 11/27/17 06:15 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: - Ice]  
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blit_ZEN Offline
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go ya = got ya = ok.....

OK I gotta read page Page 28! GAIN, never heard of it except on a CB or HAM radio,
this may have something to do w/ the MiG29 giving me a hard time.

After Reading Page 28 WOW, I ought to print this page, maybe the whole manual. Looks like
a Cougar set up, Nice, my controllers do not do all that stuff yet! May be they do & I don"t know what I am doing

Part of the problem with Falcon is ya start out with 1 thing & next thing ya got page after page of great stories
or questions or just amazement & effin fun.

In set up /controller/ advanced / avionics / this is where the the antenna elevation & Range Knob are.

Is "Range Knob" the same thing as clicking the range Number on the left side of the active MFD??


The x52 is beat up bad from many years of drunken WW2 simming,
the foot-gear is completely stripped and hand stuff has lots of friction
& bad action in knobs. For plain old flying, (like a Cessna 152 in MSFS) is was nice but too beat up too continue with (in combat sims).

If I just used the X52 for flying with it would still need a lot of keyboard input, or another controller for F4.

Brand new X52s, for the price actually look/work pretty nice. Mine was reconditioned
so was not really great from day 1. In Falcon it is pretty nice but I am still looking around.
New keyboard will be installed next time I reboot this machine. Hopefully it spells & types better than this one.

Keyboard is pretty old & beat up from Team Fortress Classic.............
I want to get one with lit up keys for nite time missions!

Current specs: http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/5383028

UserBenchmarks: Game 64%, Desk 112%, Work 94%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X - 93.4%
GPU: AMD RX 470 - 57.8%
SSD: Crucial MX300 525GB - 82.5%
SSD: Samsung 960 Evo NVMe PCIe M.2 250GB - 207.7%
HDD: Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB - 96.3%
RAM: G.SKILL F4 DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB - 102.1%
MBD: Asus PRIME X370-PRO

I currently have a AOC 24" 1080 60 hz monitor hooked up.

I also have 2 1600x900 laying around, if possible the 1080 in middle with 2 smaller monitors on side would be a
thrifty but good start. At 1600x900 res all around, my card may be able to put 60 fps while pulling this load. I need 2
displayport to HDMI adaptors, and if this works it is a big deal, saves me $400 for next graphics card.

2560x1440 is over 60 FPS most of the time. (w/1 monitor) I run it real hi on 1080 display, then it need lots less Anti Aliasing & looks sweet.

The Monitor & Video card are from the last machine, damn crypto mining makes video cards expensive! 13 months ago I paid $160 for graphics card, same card is like $225-$300 now!

The RX470 has three DisplayPort connectors, one HDMI, and one dual-link DVI..........
https://www.computershopper.com/components/reviews/gigabyte-radeon-rx-470-g1-gaming-4g

I can afford 1 new thrifty toy every other month, I am pretty much recovered from the PC, actually 2 weeks after
I got it brand new PC 9/2017, 10/2017 I found out I needed $2000 for dental work, man life just makes ya laugh out loud...............
I am almost recovered from the Dentist & can afford 1 gadget for me for this month!! Actually next month, December.

Wow all this text, this damn sim will keep me busy till Falcon 5.0 comes out.

Anyway Warthog new $345: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuPX9nbHd1wIVGEwNCh3-2QEUEAkYASABEgJBCPD_BwE&is=REG&sku=743173#itemcode&smp=y&kwid=ZSMP&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&BI=225&c3api=1876,116777138042,,

TM 1600 FCS with rudder pedals $160

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhKOq_4De1wIVQ7XACh2rhQQHEAQYASABEgKy3vD_BwE&is=REG&sku=1302665#itemcode&smp=y&kwid=ZSMP&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&BI=225&c3api=1876,163209807808,,

I save $200 with the cheaper system. On the other hand I got like 180 hours in F4 in like less than 2 months. My first sim was Sublogic Flite Simulator on an Apple II C, I been at it a while.

Back to $200, that can pay for the Track IR which is on my list also.

The pics I have seen of setups like yours is what I am gunning for. Track IR, 2 touch screen displays, and a new Vega 56 graphix card are all in the F4 BMS up grade horizon.
Almost forgot, a better chair too!

The other thing I am working on is there is a lot of new F4/4.33 BMS folk at steam, due to Steam & GOG releasing F4. There is no real experienced crowd to help at Steam. I have posted a few referrals to stuff over here like DBONDs AARs and other interesting stuff like that.
Bottom line I see 15-25 people in SimHQ/F4 thread all the time, let us make it interesting enough for them to register & participate.

A lot of the educational videos on youtube are for BMS 4.32 updates can help me & many others hint hint out there.......

ok 1:15 AM here, gnite & thanks for helpin me be more clear, I hope.

#4391588 - 11/27/17 10:20 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
OK I gotta read page Page 28! GAIN, never heard of it except on a CB or HAM radio,
this may have something to do w/ the MiG29 giving me a hard time.

In set up /controller/ advanced / avionics / this is where the the antenna elevation & Range Knob are.

Is "Range Knob" the same thing as clicking the range Number on the left side of the active MFD??

Nope. Again, look at p.28 -- if you have your A-G radar on your MFD and it is SOI, using the RANGE knob will adjust GAIN, just like the GAIN rocker on the MFD. If you have your TGP on your MFD and it is SOI, using the RANGE knob will adjust zoom/FOV.

You bump up your radar range by moving your radar cursor to the top of the MFD and you bump down by moving it to the bottom.... or using OSB 19 and 20.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
If I just used the X52 for flying with it would still need a lot of keyboard input, or another controller for F4.

If all you want are the HOTAS controls, I'm sure everything will fit in the X52? There are profiles for that setup in the BMS forums. For all other controls, that's where the touchscreen comes in smile


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
Brand new X52s, for the price actually look/work pretty nice. Mine was reconditioned
so was not really great from day 1. In Falcon it is pretty nice but I am still looking around.

I was initially looking at X52 and X52 Pros back in the day when deciding what HOTAS to get, but decided on a WH and never really looked back. A big plus was that I was playing DCS A10C for 2 years after the purchase and having the correct controls at the correct place just made things so much easier.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X - 93.4%
GPU: AMD RX 470 - 57.8%
SSD: Crucial MX300 525GB - 82.5%
SSD: Samsung 960 Evo NVMe PCIe M.2 250GB - 207.7%
HDD: Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB - 96.3%
RAM: G.SKILL F4 DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB - 102.1%
MBD: Asus PRIME X370-PRO
I currently have a AOC 24" 1080 60 hz monitor hooked up.

Pretty nice specs! I was worried that with talk of an "old" HOTAS, that you were playing with an old system as well. Guess not!! biggrin


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
I also have 2 1600x900 laying around, if possible the 1080 in middle with 2 smaller monitors on side would be a
thrifty but good start. At 1600x900 res all around, my card may be able to put 60 fps while pulling this load. I need 2
displayport to HDMI adaptors, and if this works it is a big deal, saves me $400 for next graphics card.

Look into SoftTH to make that setup work. With SoftTH, you'll end up with a 5120x1080 resolution. I used to play with 2x 19" 1280x1024 monitors with a 1x 24" 1920x1080 monitor just to test my tolerance for a triple-screen setup. I was also able to fly BMS on a HD 7970 GHz Edition GPU with 3x 27" 1920x1080 monitors with 1x 22" 1920x1080 touchscreen, so I'm sure your RX 470 should be able to handle 3-4 screens on BMS with ease.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
The Monitor & Video card are from the last machine, damn crypto mining makes video cards expensive! 13 months ago I paid $160 for graphics card, same card is like $225-$300 now!

Yep! Not a good time to be building PCs. GPUs and RAM kits are quite expensive.... I could've bought a 32GB RAM kit for the price of a 16GB kit today.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
The RX470 has three DisplayPort connectors, one HDMI, and one dual-link DVI..........

It should handle 4 monitors easily.... does the Ryzen setup have a built-in GPU? My 3 display screens plug into my 980Ti, the 4th display output (HDMI) is allocated to my HTC Vive. One of my touchscreens connects to the motherboard and utilizes the on-board GPU, the other touchscreen goes to a laptop docking station with video output and connects to my PC via USB.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
I save $200 with the cheaper system. On the other hand I got like 180 hours in F4 in like less than 2 months. My first sim was Sublogic Flite Simulator on an Apple II C, I been at it a while.

Back to $200, that can pay for the Track IR which is on my list also.

The pics I have seen of setups like yours is what I am gunning for. Track IR, 2 touch screen displays, and a new Vega 56 graphix card are all in the F4 BMS up grade horizon.
Almost forgot, a better chair too!

Personally, I would not skimp on the interface between you and the sim. If you played 180 hours in 2 months, that's at least 3 hours per day. Even if you estimated an average of 6 hours per week of flying over the next year, that's 312 hours. With a $345 WH, that's $1.106 per hour. By the 2nd year, it'll be $0.553 per hour. Now remember that I've had my TM WH since Dec 2010.... this is why I say the TM WH is cheap.

As for TrackIR, if you've managed WWII sims without it for now, you'll be okay. I would put it as your next purchase after your HOTAS, but again, I would not skimp on the HOTAS on account of the TrackIR. Also take a look at UTC Mk II instead of getting the TrackClip Pro. Again, a TrackIR is really cheap... I've had mine since mid-2010 smile

2 touchscreens are a bit too much if I'm honest. The only reason I have two is because I started out with a 22" touchscreen, then upgraded to a 24" touchscreen with the intention of selling the first one.... then I had the silly idea of "what if I use both of them??" I do like the fact that my left AUX conosle is always available and not compressed.... so basically, start off with 1 touchscreen for now, get the rest of your toys, then think about a 2nd touchscreen later. I wouldn't be pushing for a Vega 56 card with current prices and your current monitor setup. Maybe when you get 3x 1920x1080 displays and 1x 1920x1080 touchscreen, but not now.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
The other thing I am working on is there is a lot of new F4/4.33 BMS folk at steam, due to Steam & GOG releasing F4. There is no real experienced crowd to help at Steam. I have posted a few referrals to stuff over here like DBONDs AARs and other interesting stuff like that.
Bottom line I see 15-25 people in simhq/F4 thread all the time, let us make it interesting enough for them to register & participate.

Well, they can stay at Steam or GoG all they want and play Falcon 4.0, but if they were to play BMS, then they'd have to register at the official BMS forums to get the install files so they'll get their "experienced crowd to help" there. I don't think there are a lot of "new" BMS players in SimHQ, most of you guys came from F4.0 or Allied Force and have been SimHQ members ever since. There are a few guys who post mostly in BMS but come here a little too, but most of the content and help would be on the official BMS forums.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
A lot of the educational videos on youtube are for BMS 4.32 updates can help me & many others hint hint out there.......

I would strongly advise AGAINST watching YouTube videos.... a lot of those are simply wrong or out of date. There are a few 4.33 videos that are newer, I would watch those, but if you really want to learn, tackle the PDF manuals and the TEs.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
ok 1:15 AM here, gnite & thanks for helpin me be more clear, I hope.

Yep, much easier to read your posts now smile Glad to have helped!


- Ice
#4391610 - 11/27/17 02:04 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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Yep, get a Track IR! I agree with Ice that it's the next thing after a good HOTAS.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4391692 - 11/28/17 03:40 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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OK the WartHog is down to $337.00. that is next....

too late to really type, but i time 4 1 flite b4 bed.


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...0_Hotas_Warthog_Flight_Stick.html?sts=pi

#4391919 - 11/29/17 08:04 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
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chester county, PA, america
10 hours later, I got the Wart Hog at Micro Center about 12 miles down the road & I paid sales tax.
I brought a print out of the BH photo site w/ price, they then checked to make sure BH had them in stock
and then they matched the price. I salute Micro Center, again!

Anyway it feels so much different in Falcon, really smooth. With the TM/PS4 HOTAS it was hard to level out
and be level, not climbing or diving. This made a2a refueling impossible. Also the throttle had a notch in the middle.
For some space games this may be ok or useful but in F4 this notch was right where i was needing to be to get
300 kts EXACTLY to refuel. It the throttle had notch for engine off & after burner it would be nice but this was the worst for a/c sims.
So between to bouncing up & down & lunging & brakes it was almost pretty comical. One night, I swear, I spent almost an hour trying.
On my first F4 Wart Hog flight, (1st 1 that all systems were set up in BMS right) the first thing I thought was refueling is gonna be a lot easier.
This was after 3 flight w no throttle and 2 w /throttle and no Joystick till i remembered "advanced settings" in BMS.

Any way now I need to go into the F4.33 setup, push all the buttons, write down what they do and start to develop new muscle memory.
I still have to "Shift Home" & end & delete... etc till i get used to where the are now, some where on the stick/throttle combo, a lot closer
than the keyboard.

Actually the KB printout has all the DX buttons for Cougar listed so I will see if they match up.

How this all started? Is an inexpensive HOTAS & additional controls VS the expensive stick? For me I got a great deal on the stick & I fly enuff it will cost
33 cents a hour over the next year. BH has this price till Dec 2 so Micro Center will match it till then. I really did not think these would be that big of a deal
But in 15 minutes in the Instant Action (easy mode) the controls were great. I gotta be less cynical, in a lot of ways!

A few years ago I picked 1 of these up along with a video card & few odd & ends & when it was time 2 pay I was shocked, They were not on sale, so at the register, I left it. That was 5 years ago.
It would have cost like 5 cents an hour by now!

ICE, thanks for all the good advice, I have not learned all the commands for nice graphics like that, that look good & make sense too.
The X52 original machine was an AM3 Athlon 3000 still here with a Phenom II 965 & r9 270. It is actually still a decent gamer
but the Graphics card w/2 gig is gettin old. Still I used it daily till 9/17 when I got the new one. I have an old nero that only uses 4 cores
so i was ripping a DVD to mpgs, streaming to 2 tv's, playing F4 BMS & recording video, cpu use was less than 50%. This will CPU tide me over
a decade or so.

I registered at the official BMS website like 2 moths ago & never got anything to validate my registration. I can log on, see who else joined and that is it. I have no permissions
to go anywhere or see anything or post anywhere. I send a message to the admins like once a week & nothing has happened yet. I am not sure where I D/L from, A torrent I believe
so I got it w/o having to really do anything. I would like to see what is going on over there..............

So far here and http://falcon-online.org/forum/index.php?topic=2097.30 are all I got for F4 BMS info.

I do not bother with 4.32 vids cause the controls are so much different, I don't have the brain cells to spare.

On the other hand I just put a keyboard & mouse on my 40" smart TV, I have fallen asleep to F4.33 BMS on Youtube & 7 hours later WAKE UP incoming..........

#4391921 - 11/29/17 08:13 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
Joined: Oct 2000
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NooJoyzee
Congrats on the new stick! I'm sure it was a nice improvement. thumbsup


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4391933 - 11/29/17 09:47 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
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Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
10 hours later, I got the Wart Hog at Micro Center about 12 miles down the road & I paid sales tax.
I brought a print out of the BH photo site w/ price, they then checked to make sure BH had them in stock
and then they matched the price. I salute Micro Center, again!

Congrats on the new stick and smart move making them price match!! I am confident that you will love the new HOTAS!


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
Anyway it feels so much different in Falcon, really smooth.

I would love if you would do a small experiment for me. Load up the AAR TE and try a formation flight just off the tanker's left wing or if you want, try getting into contact position... then if you can do that, try getting some gas.

Do this exercise on both the TM WH and your old X52. I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not the more expensive setup has improved your flying. smile

You said you've seen my simpit setup.... I've done it this way to eliminate any excuse on my part. I've bolted my HOTAS to the simpit so there is barely any play, so any inaccuracies in my flying is MY OWN FAULT. I've set it up to be as ergonomic as possible so that I'm flying in roughly the correct position. I use the touchscreen so that I can control the pit better. This has allowed me to focus on my skill instead of blaming the hardware or the ergonomics... and one accomplishment I'm really proud of is that my refuelling skills have gone from non-existent to being able to be cleared straight to contact position (skipping having to establish in pre-contact position) in a quick-flow refuelling procedure and being able to connect to the tanker in a turn.

I'm not perfect and on some nights, I PIO a lot!! But I know that the PIO is my own doing, so I back off, relax, and try to come back and connect. The funny thing is that this has helped me to really relax..... ironic, isn't it? Doing AARs to relax.... but I have to, or I can't connect. My favorite setup is to start up the 05 AAR TE, pick #2 in the 4980 package, and fly. I choose this because I can practice flying off #1 in formation flight on the way to the tanker, then practice flying in the proper position for quick-flow while #1 is taking gas, and when Lead is finished taking fuel, I'm straight to contact position and only have a few moments to connect before the tanker starts his turn. I then either connect in level flight and keep taking gas through the turn or I wait for the turn and connect and take gas while in the turn.


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
Any way now I need to go into the F4.33 setup, push all the buttons, write down what they do and start to develop new muscle memory.
I still have to "Shift Home" & end & delete... etc till i get used to where the are now, some where on the stick/throttle combo, a lot closer
than the keyboard.

Why? With the WH, you can map everything onto your HOTAS. Everything else you need is a mouse-click away so no need to remember any key combination! If you know where the switch or button or knob is, go there and click on it!


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
ICE, thanks for all the good advice,

You are most welcome!! However, I take no responsibility in all the time lost enjoying this sim and other games wink


Originally Posted by blit_ZEN
I registered at the official BMS website like 2 moths ago & never got anything to validate my registration. I can log on, see who else joined and that is it. I have no permissions
to go anywhere or see anything or post anywhere. I send a message to the admins like once a week & nothing has happened yet. I am not sure where I D/L from, A torrent I believe
so I got it w/o having to really do anything. I would like to see what is going on over there..............

What's your username over in the BMS forums? I may poke a few mods to see if they can see what's going on.


One other question --- how long before you can get a touchscreen? I trust you've seen my Helios profile?

Also, I have a TM WH profile and a BMS 4.33 .key file that you can use --- saves you from having to set up your own, or may serve as a basis for your own later on.
See HERE for .key file
See HERE for TARGET profile


- Ice
#4391946 - 11/29/17 11:23 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 243
blit_ZEN Offline
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Posts: 243
chester county, PA, america
ICE The ease and smoothness were unreal, I have to go out for a few hours like now
but the 1st flite I look at the HUD 287mph & 18790 feet I took it to 19k & 300 mph in like seconds & held it w/o any wobbles for like a few minutes.
REFUELING CAN BE DONE!!!! I was able to have no altitude movement for like 2 minutes 1st time I tried it.

And the relaxing, I been doing Chi Kung, & Reiki for over 20 years before there was an Internet it was ez to meditate for hours
now, not quite as easy with the knowledge of all time & history at your finger tips! I got the Entire Healin Tao Library Books & Video
& even spent a few weeks with them. It all comes down to relax & breath......

I gotta run but will try refuel & formation when i get back, I already know it will work & be EZ, compared to the old & cheaper sticks.........

I will give ya a report in the AM & thanks for key file & TARGET file will have more reports later.

OH and it look like I am in over at BMS Web site, I am gonna guess they were short staffed and it seems since this appeared on steam
a lot of people are coming back from F4AF or are starting from scratch. Any way gotta run..........be back in a bit.

#4392556 - 12/02/17 02:17 AM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 243
blit_ZEN Offline
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blit_ZEN  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 243
chester county, PA, america
OK the 1st attempt at refueling to 45 minutes, 15 to get a headache and 30 more till I gave up. It was a lot closer
than with old hardware. With the TM ps4/HOTAS I was lunging past & was up & down likw 50-100 ft wobbles. With the
Wart Hog, I pull up close easy just could not quite get close enuff, but not wobbling. I set autopilot to Combat/fight and watched it from
inside & will keep trying, I was not close enuff yet.

Ya really go to to close to those lights below!


Anyway Closer, much closer but more practice & relaxing will be required.

#4392629 - 12/02/17 03:14 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
A few tips --- make sure your AAR door is open. This puts you in landing gains and helps a lot.

"Stay ahead of the aircraft" --- meaning you speed up before you need to or slow down before you need to. For example, if I find that I'm going too fast and creeping forward, I can pull back on the throttle a little but before I even start seeing the airspeed decrease, I put the throttle back up. That little blip of lost thrust can be enough to reset my speed to where it needs to be. Basically, correct and then zero out your correction so you stabilize where you want to be and you're not chasing your aircraft all around the sky.

Turn off TrackIR or any headtracking and re-center your view. It's much easier to establish a sight picture this way and any drifting is easier to spot. I have a button just for this purpose on my Helios profile and on my HOTAS.

Take 2-3 seconds to check yourself. If you are tensing up, don't!! Relax those areas and try again.

Good luck with your AAR attempts! I also find it cool that you're enjoying your new toy.... might be a good idea to see how you can set it up so that you're flying in an ergonomic position. This was my first attempt at this idea and it made flying much more comfortable and enjoyable....

[Linked Image]


- Ice
#4393044 - 12/03/17 11:42 PM Re: Using multi joysticks & pads......... [Re: blit_ZEN]  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 243
blit_ZEN Offline
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blit_ZEN  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 243
chester county, PA, america
I like the tables/shelves. I have a chair with decent adjustable armrests and the
desk is an old metal PC desk w/ the keyboard shelf that drops about 4 inches.

When I get the rudder pedals & extra monitors I will work on a better, permanent
seating position. I may need to raise the chair on a platform, and the get a foot rest
before I get everything really lined up right.

BTW regarding meditation, a guy around here, Rene Navarro is a world class
teacher. He is originally from the Philippines and he goes homes every now & then.
I got an email from him I tried to send you a copy privately but I had problems.
Here is the main parts..........
"Hi!

I am getting ready to leave for the Philippines again. My departure date is December4. The schedule includes a trip to Legaspi, south of Manila, where the active volcano Mount Mayon is located; another short trip to Hongkong to meet with friends from Taiwan; and several seminars in Manila. The seminars will cover Microcosmic Orbit Meditation/Small Heavenly Circle and Xing Shen Zhuang Fa (December 9 and 10); Traditional Yang Family Tai chi chuan (first section) and Yi Jin Jing (January 27 and 28); and Taoist basics, DragonWell Qigong and the Buddhist qigong and martial form “Twin Dragons Chasing the Pearl” (January 6 and 7). There will be 2-hour free lecture and open forum on Friday December 8 at St Clement’s Seminary in Cubao, Quezon City. A short trip to Thailand is also scheduled in January."

https://renenavarro.us3.list-manage...45ee5&id=afb55ecbe6&e=bc560f43f4

This guy lives about 2 hours away from me driving & I have been trying to meet up with him for a year or two, things just got in the way.
I will be getting the cables for additional monitors & foot pedals & maybe a new monitor this later month. The head set stuff is away
aways, Take care.

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