“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
I agree overall. I mean, it's good to have variety, so some shows being serialized while others are stand-alone provides a nice mix, but I wouldn't necessarily want all shows one way or the other. One show that I think balanced the two very well was Babylon 5 - an overall story but generally good stand-alone episodes as well.
Ken Cartwright
No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.
Star Trek should consist of stand-alone episodes. Period. When you have an infinite universe (plus extra dimensions) to play with, it seems an utter waste to fixate on a main story. That requires good writers though, and a series about Klingons (everybody loves the Klingons!) is more likely to keep the MBAs happy. ...plus I generally watched ST on an ad-hoc basis, so couldn't keep up with a serial format anyway.
That's changed a bit recently since I can blast through these short series (like Discovery) in a couple of evenings on Netflix. Netflix right now is excellent. It has all ST series, reasonably priced (although has aleady risen a bit),no ads and can be cancelled at a month's notice. I can't see that lasting forever though.
#4386369 - 10/23/1702:09 PMRe: Serialization vs. stand alone episodes
[Re: Arthonon]
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Originally Posted by Arthonon
I One show that I think balanced the two very well was Babylon 5 - an overall story but generally good stand-alone episodes as well.
Agreed! Within those stand-alone episodes, plot A usually dealt with the stand-alone story while plot B would have something to do with the upcoming war with the Shadows or something with the Vorlons or Earth Alliance, etc.
One show though where I think the attempt at having stand alone episodes didn't work very well was Battlestar Galactica. Episodes like "Black Market", "Dirty Hands", "The Woman King" and "A Day in the Life" are largely regarded by fans to be much weaker when compared to the serialized episodes.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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Besides the Dominion War, what other long running story arcs did DS 9 have?
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
I like story arcs with episodes interspersed that have little or nothing to do with the main arc. "Enterprise" did that pretty well in season 3
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
Besides the Dominion War, what other long running story arcs did DS 9 have?
The whole show had a huge storyline about Sisko role as the Emissary of the Prophets. Which tied in with Dukat's role as his main opponent throughout the show.
Besides the Dominion War, what other long running story arcs did DS 9 have?
The whole show had a huge storyline about Sisko role as the Emissary of the Prophets. Which tied in with Dukat's role as his main opponent throughout the show.
True, and that's a good way to do an arc and to have more than one arc as well. The emissary arc lasted the entire series, sometimes it was central to an episode but many times it had nothing to do with an episode while a different arc took center stage for a time.
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
To me, the whole Emissary thing was more of a role than a story arc. Kind of like him being captain of the station - it set the environment for things to happen, but it wasn't really a story arc.
Ken Cartwright
No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.
Storywise is is Sisko being forced into the role, having to accept it, then slowly growing into it to care about it beyond it being forced upon him.
And that is to me one of the benefits of a serialized show - it has greater room for character growth and expanding them with a continous backstory. Look at Worf - his journey on DS9 gave him so much more character and depth than all his TNG episodes. Same with Miles.
I'd be fine with non-serialized TV if the script writing was top notch, or at least if there are memorable and lovable characters.
All too often however there is only artificial drama because the main characters are untouchable. So if they never fail, if they never lose, if nothing ever goes wrong, then where's the suspense in the drama? If your drama has no suspense, no matter what you do as a scriptwriter to dial the tension to eleven, it will inevitably ring hollow.
Serialized TV on the other hand is great if
it is merciless with character fate. Script writers: You don't want a character killed? Hint: Don't create a situation that usually gets people killed. You then don't have to invent an implausible way to save the character which in the process erodes your credibility to create suspense in any future dramatic scene.
the story is good. This is no unsolvable mystery ... but not entirely trivial either.
if there's no fixed formula "to solve a case in 45 minutes", or anything else that leads to the TV world return to its status quo on an exact time budget. A crime show that always lasts 45 minutes, you just know that the first suspect never is "it", unless the story circles back to him/her. And if those 45 minutes are your "format", then concentrate at least on WHY someone committed murder rather than presenting the audience a long list of suspects who aren't really suspicious because they enter the scene too early in the episode. In short, do not pretend that the audience has no meta knowledge about how TV storytelling works.
There were a number of "guilty pleasures" of non-serialized TV shows that I enjoyed - the X Files (it alternated between the (rather boring) big conspiracy and "monster of the week" episodes, which were great, because each monster was different). "Warehouse 13" was another one that was somewhat light on the story arc, but had a different artifact (monster equivalent) of the week. I loved "Special Unit 2" which was nothing but "monster of the week" episodes because it had great characters (same goes for the X files, or Warehouse 13; it was the character dynamics that made these shows good).
That being said, a serialized format should conclude its story after three to seven seasons, unless it's exceptionally well made. Boardwalk Empire, the BSG reboot, Fringe, ... they didn't last forever and got a chance to finish their stories. Game of Thrones is losing quality since season 5, I'm glad it'll be over next year. Same goes for House of Cards, there's only so much cynicsm and depravity that I'm willing to tolerate. No need to go any lower. Breaking Bad was hard for me to get past the second or third season, when they had the plane crash at the end. For the whole season they alluded to Walter White's family being murdered by the Mexican drug cartel at the end, and then out of the blue they invent this stupid twist to let the story continue; that being said, in the end it was worth it. Dexter was a bit of a blend between "let's kill the murderer of the week" and serialized format; the great thing was that each season ran under a specific theme that made a lot of sense: Friendship, family, love, religion, ... - how does that mix with being a homicidal psychopath (spoiler alert: not very well). "Justified" wasn't extremely serialized but the characters and the witty dialogs were simply brilliant.
In short, I think that calling serialized TV a "disease" is a clickbait headline at best. Especially in the age of Netflix or boxed BluRay sets the claim is utterly baseless, unless your expectation is based on pre-2000s linear TV lifestyle where you had a handful of shows on specific time slots, one episode per week. I'm sorry, the program managers of the various channels over here have totally ruined that. I no longer watch "TV" when it's "on" except for light comedy. If I'm really interested in a show, I'll buy the box, and watch it at my own pace. I'll then watch the whole show more or less in one go, one or two episodes per day for a week or two, and then I have no problem following the story. I never miss an episode. I never have commercial breaks, or stupid advertisement (usually at the worst moments) for shows on the same channel that just don't interest me.
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Excellent post Ssnake! The only point I disagree with you is when you said that the X-Files mythology was boring but to each his own of course!
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
I like serialization, as it gives shows a purpose and more of a reason to watch beyond "killing time."
An exception being series like "Alfred Hitchcock Presents," "Ray Bradbury Theater," "The Hitchhiker," "Outer Limits," "Tales from the Crypt," "Tales from the Darkside," and "The Twilight Zone."
I love those kinds of shows. And nobody makes them anymore. Such a damn shame. I wrote a short story that could be turned into an episode of one earlier this year, based on feedback I received. If only I had a way to get it on the air... Not that I wrote it for that purpose--moreso to relieve stress from dealing with Comcast screwing me. Anyways, those types of suspense and mystery shows with a dark twist were the best.
Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 10/24/1701:52 PM.
#4386567 - 10/24/1706:52 PMRe: Serialization vs. stand alone episodes
[Re: Ssnake]
Most shows I want serialized because it allows for a big picture with more plot details and twists. Examples: the BSG reboot, The Expanse, GOT, Dark Matter. But as Ssnake said, you’d better have damn good writers.
On the other hand, shows like Star Trek and Firefly were good as standalone episodes, or as separate episodes with connecting threads - Firefly “Our Mrs. Reynolds” and “Trash”, for example. And standalones don’t mean lesser writing, both “Shindig” and “Out of Gas” were extremely well written.
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
I don't agree with that article. There's shows that are good at stand alone stories and some that are terrible. Same with the stand alone shows.
The thing I do tend to hate with many of the serialized shows is, tell your story and end already! Most shows only seem to have between 3-5 seasons of content but they just stretch it out or keep coming back like some kind of terrible story zombie thing. Looking at you Supernatural, how many apocalypses can you have?
#4386800 - 10/26/1710:44 AMRe: Serialization vs. stand alone episodes
[Re: wormfood]
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Originally Posted by wormfood
The thing I do tend to hate with many of the serialized shows is, tell your story and end already! Most shows only seem to have between 3-5 seasons of content but they just stretch it out or keep coming back like some kind of terrible story zombie thing. Looking at you Supernatural, how many apocalypses can you have?
THIS
Serialized shows that unnecessarily went on too long and thus the quality suffered:
X-Files (Fox is to blame though, not Chris Carter).
Lost
The Walking Dead
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”