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#4380433 - 09/20/17 01:41 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Hi Guys,

Here are a few new drawings and a couple of updates.

Thanks to Ed "RaceGuy" at A2A, and Greg "Viper16" over on RCU, we tweaked the stick length a tad to get it right.

Also, since there are no drawings that I can find on the P-51D Pilots Control Stick Handle - B-5, I decided to draw some up. I got a lot of reference data from "LocNar" over at SimHQ. He has a real P-51D B-5 Handle and took some great photos with caliper dimensions. This was a HUGE HELP and all the thanks go to LocNar for his pictorial. I did have to extrapolate some of the radius' and lengths, but I was able to use the photos and dims to work everything out. I'm sure the drawings are not perfect but they are the closest thing that is available, that I'm aware of anyway.

Let me know what you think.

Enjoy

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
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[Linked Image]

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4380434 - 09/20/17 01:49 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Here are a few reviews from some of the guys that have the plans.

Please let me know if you have any questions.


REVIEWS BELOW

"HI Stang

Fantastic plans! I wish these had been available when I built my P-51 cockpit as they would have made my project much easier.

Again, great job.

Ed"



"Wow, terrific job Stang. As someone who works with engineering and knows Acad fairly well I can tell that this must have been a huge job. It looks very well done and detailed.

I am looking forward the bf109 and fw190 plans

VO101 MMaister"


"Hi Guys
I bought the 51 plans from Stang he is a mechanical engineer.
His originals are in a cad program but he has provided them to me in PDF.
The CAD can be taken to a cabinet shop that has a CNC and have them cut,
but I intend to take the 1:1 PDF's to a print shop then cut the parts myself.
All I have to do now is lay them out on the material of choice and cut away. No
more trying to read blurred 70+ years old recopied microfiche plans.
At this point, he does not have the prints of the left side console or the right side switches
and etc, but will be providing them later.
Real nice and professional guy to deal with.
Tom - "N743TC""


"I just received my set of drawings today and all I can say to those who buy them....you get way more than you paid for them. They are truly an awesome piece of work. I have just a small idea of how much work went in to these as I was trying to do the same thing only I gave up out of frustration because of the poor quality of original drawings. Thank you Stang for all your hard work on the P-51 drawings. After seeing these I have no doubt the rest of the planes you are planning on completing will be just as good!
Bazooka"


"Wonderful to see this stuff shared with the community, really is awesome work 8)
cheers,
Lewis"

Last edited by Stang4Me; 10/30/17 10:24 PM.
#4381125 - 09/24/17 08:39 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Hi Guys

Huge Update going out tonight to all the folks that got the P-51D Plans.

Lots of new drawings. The TOTAL DRAWINGS INCLUDED is now up to 220 :thumbup:

I'm making good progress on the Spitfire Plans. I'll try to get the thread posted later this week.

The first picture below shows an overview of the P-51D CAD Plan Drawings you get.

Enjoy - more to come!

[Linked Image]
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Last edited by Stang4Me; 10/30/17 10:25 PM.
#4381254 - 09/25/17 02:31 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Hi Lewis,

The P-51D Cockpit Engineering Drawings are available biggrin Check the very first post in this thread for info.

I also send out updates every week or two with all the additional drawings I have added.

This way you only have to open 1 CAD File to get to everything. There is a Free AutoDESK File viewer if you don't have AutoCAD. You can view and print the drawings you want from the free viewer.

The first picture in the post above shows the layout of the CAD file.

Each Cockpit Item has a line associated with all the parts for it. As an example, see the pictures below.

This makes it easy cheesy. All you do is look for the Item you want to build, like the "Pilots Control Pedestal". On that line is all the drawings associated with that Part.

The numbers at the far left side of the first picture below, denote how many drawings are in that Part. This is where the Total Drawings of 220 come from. Under each drawing, is a Part Number and the Item Description (IN GREEN). This allows you look up the actual part online should you want to.

Let me know if you have questions or ready to get the Plans.

I'm happy to help

Stang

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Originally Posted by "Lewis - A2A"
Great stuff. You should be packing this up and offering it up for download maybe in one easy zip for sim pit builders to download?

thanks,
Lewis

Last edited by Stang4Me; 10/30/17 10:27 PM.
#4382259 - 09/30/17 03:44 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Hi Guys

Working on the Major Part Assembly Locations today.

Have a great weekend.

[Linked Image]

#4382371 - 10/01/17 03:07 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Stang4Me  Offline
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Hi Guys

Here is my lame attempt to get a pilot in the cockpit.

I know this is waaaaaay far from perfect. I am just trying to show the locations per the installed major components.

This has the pilot sitting on a cushion and having a back cushion. Through research, I am seeing that a lot of P-51D Pilots sat on as many as 3 small cushions depending on their height and the duration of a mission, with different parachute options. 8 hours is a long time in the cockpit.

You'll also notice in the picture, 3 Yellow Crosses. These depict the FFP (Firm Fixed Position) of Major components. There is one for the Rudder Pedal Attachment Point, one for the Seat Attachment Point and one for the Stick attachment point. I will provide a drawing with dimensions of these when finished, so the community will have the locations.

Thoughts?

[Linked Image]

#4383601 - 10/06/17 09:03 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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From the A2A Forums...



Thanks for the kind words KillRatio.

The Firm Fixed Points have always been an elusive subject.

Hopefully, the drawings below will shed some light on this.

These FFP's and Dims are for the Right Side only. Working on the Left Side and front.

Stang

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


If you're considering building the small cockpit, here's the updated dimensions.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

#4383641 - 10/07/17 12:00 AM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
Joined: Sep 2017
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Stang4Me Offline
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Stang4Me  Offline
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Hey Guys,

Please let me know if you see anything missing from the Right side.

I do know there is a Decal warning plate that goes just above the Emergency Canopy Release handle. I have drawn that up and just forgot to get it in place.

I'm sure I've overlooked something else though and appreciate your feedback.

Thanks

Stang out

#4384182 - 10/10/17 04:20 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Hi Guys

I have completed the Left side with the "Firm Fixed Positions". The Front Panel is next.

Same as before...I'm pretty sure I missed something.

If you notice anything I missed, please let me know.

Also, the Flare Gun Port is just a placeholder, I'll finish it up shortly.

Enjoy

Stang

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

#4386216 - 10/22/17 01:05 AM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Hi Guys

Just getting everything laid out in the front section so I can get the Firm Fixed Points in place.

Still, lots of little do-dads to do and a couple to correct, but we're getting close.

As Always, your feedback is appreciated. Please let me know if you notice something missing, incorrect and or needs updating.

Enjoy and let me know if you have any questions.

Stang out

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

#4389729 - 11/14/17 11:25 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Stang4Me  Offline
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Hi, Guys

I wanted to get out an update of the Cockpit Plans for the P-51D.

I have pretty much finished all of the drawings. There are few small items left but all the Switch Boxes, Cockpit Items, Ribs, Floor, Seat, Stick, Throttle, Instrument Panel and Base are completed.

I have been working on providing both the "original engineering" for the pieces in case you choose Aluminum to make your cockpit out of, and now the "new engineered" matching Wood pieces, with customization to fit the Cockpit plans. This way you're not left trying to figure out, "How the heck am I going to make that"? :doh:

I have also completed a series of "Tools" that will help in defining the Firm Fixed Points (FFP) with your Cockpit to make life a whole lot easier.

First Up below is the Completed Rudder Pedals with the "corrected" FFP. thanks to Ed "RaceGuy" for helping me get this sorted along with the Correct Adjustments.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Next up the is the Reworked Rib Station Drawings. In the Pictures below, they are separated by the "Real P-51D Part" and the "Sim Cockpit Plans". This should make it easier to make your station parts and keep them as true to the originals as possible.

Here's the reworked Station 104, Left and Right Ribs. The drawings include the new Master Station and Reference Lines Tool (on the far left), with each part drawing, so you always have your "reference points" readily available while working with the part drawing.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Next up is the last few Switch Boxes that are now completed. Now, all of the Switch and Instrument Boxes, Parts / Panels, and Pilots Pedestal are completed. :thumbup:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Next up is the new Tool Series. The first one is the Master Reference Lines Tool, which provides the needed dimensions from the "Side View" point of reference. The second picture is the Master Front Elevation dimensions Tool.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


The next Tool is the Bottom Floor Reference Tool which provides the Dimension from the ground up, so to speak. The next one following is the Top Canopy Rail Tool which provides dimensions from the Top down. Then comes the Canopy Riser Tool. The Canopy Riser Tool gives the FFP's for the point where the Canopy meets the Windshield and its transition. Finally is the Station 75.5 Reference Tool. This is the Firewall of the aircraft and is the only Rib Station that is not purely vertical.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Next, we move on to the Floor. The original Cockpit Plans have the Base Floor drawings in them, but these new drawings are based on the original engineering so, if you want a completely realistic P-51D Cockpit Floor, you'll need these. The first one is the completely assembled Floor Unit. Then there are a couple of the individual Floor drawings. All of the pieces for the original floor system are now complete.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Lastly is a Master Frame Reference Drawing, as I have been asked several times about where the Main Instrument Panel is in relation to everything else. The MIP is actually located at Station 101.25 and Connected to Station 104 via an "L" shaped bracket.

More coming, stay tuned.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Stang4Me; 11/16/17 12:14 AM.
#4389730 - 11/14/17 11:26 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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and just as a little teaser of what's close to done.... Anyone know what this is?

[Linked Image]


Blue Skys Everyone.

#4389940 - 11/16/17 11:43 AM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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453Raafspitty Offline
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453Raafspitty  Offline
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Australia,Sandstone Point
Looks like one of these... smile

Attached Files Spit full cockpit.jpgTop bulkhead.jpgPic_0702_496.jpg
#4390043 - 11/16/17 10:57 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
Joined: Sep 2017
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Stang4Me Offline
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Stang4Me  Offline
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It sure does 453Raafspitty

Stang out

#4391360 - 11/25/17 09:07 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Stang4Me  Offline
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Hi Guys

I hope everyone's Thanksgiving was good.

I've had several questions about how I created the profile shapes for the P-51D as well as the Parts. Here are the answers and a few pictures to help with the explanation.

The exact shape of the P-51 was defined by its ordinates, which were finalized in a wind tunnel and then either destroyed or lost to history. What are ordinates? They are fixed points in space as they relate to the X, Y, & Z axis. The X-Axis representing the Horizontal plane, the Y-Axis representing the Vertical plane and the Z-Axis representing the depth plane.

Fortunately, I was able to find the coordinates used to define “most” of the Station 75.5 Firewall. The example below represents just 5 of the 35 2D points that were used to define that shape. Unfortunately, the ordinates in the drawing stopped about three-quarters of the way up for the part. The points below represent the 2D (Horizontal & Vertical) profile shape. In this example, the first number is the X Point (horizontal) by units and the second number is Y Point (vertical) by units, as they are measured from the defined starting point of 0,0 in space.

16.000,5
16.102,4
16.199,3
16.283,2
16.369,1
16.445,0

Here is what the Firewall Ordinates look like when plotted out in AutoCAD.

[Linked Image]



Then since the 0,0 point is also listed as the “intersection” of the Frame Reference Line (FRL) and the Ships Centerline (SCL), I can then add in these lines by point 0,0. Then it’s an easy task for AutoCAD to Mirror those Ordinate Points on the right by the 0,0 location, to create the left side ordinates, as shown below.

[Linked Image]


Now we come to the ENORMOUS PROBLEM. The complete "Ordinates" used for the P-51D overall profile have been either lost, destroyed or misplaced to history over the years. Fortunately, the Firewall drawing does tell me the vertical length of the part. This measurement provides the “missing” ordinate for the Top of the part. With that point, I can then add in the positions of the Upper and Lower “longerons” and then create a tangent curve from the Top Profile point to the existing side ordinates points, to complete the full profile shape shown below.

[Linked Image]

Next, I can add in the Cockpit Plan’s Floor Location and Upper and Lower Longeron locations, and then finally the “Part” itself. In this case, I am showing the Station 89.75 Rib parts with the overall profile. Note, the ribs are based on the original rib drawing, then modified for the Cockpit Plans while retaining the original outside and inside profiles, as well as specific details per the original drawing for holes, curves, connections, etc. This is showed in the picture below.

[Linked Image]

The complete ordinates for the P-51 A-C are available on old scanned drawings of very poor quality. When you are entering 1,000's of 5-digit numerical number sets, quality and readability are imperative for accuracy. Thus today, the only place I know where a true ordinate set exists, is on Hugh's Technote Site, where Huge recreated from the few readable ordinates across various drawings for the P-51A-C and then mathematically completed the rest.

The P-51 A-C and D models are "basically" identical from the Upper Longeron down. The P-51D's shape changes mostly above the upper Longeron. This means we can use the data from the P-51A-C for most of the shape. As of this point today, everything calculated above the upper longerons is an estimate unless you have a real P-51D available to measure for 3D points...which most of us don't.

The good news is that we do know several key measurements from the Ship Center Line and Fuselage Reference Line to the Top of the Firewall, Windshield Canopy Frame, Canopy Top and the Longerons Center line locations. These provide the data to replicate the part locations to a very precise point, which I estimate to be close to 99.9% accurate. The reasons we cannot get it perfect is because we don't have all the ordinates and many of the drawings contain errors in dimensions, as everything was done with a pencil, triangle and a scale ruler. This means the Cockpit Plans should be accurate to a minimum of 1/128th of an inch or better overall. This equates to 0.0078125 for you decimal guys out there, which is pretty darn close.

The last thing is the overall Top Profile of the P-51 is virtually straight from Station 75.5 to about Station 146, as shown in the pictures below. The main profile changes are above the Upper Longeron, which I have calculated with the actual part(s) dimensions, for everything above the Upper Longeron.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Thus, with my Cockpit Plans, I am using the same outside profile for Stations 75.5 through 146. I do use all the specific data for the inside profile and mounting hole locations from the original parts for accuracy. This makes for easier building and ensures the shape accuracy.

[Linked Image]

I hope that sheds a little light on the P-51D’s profile and how its represented by the Cockpit Plans.

Please let me know any questions you have and enjoy the weekend.

Stang out

Last edited by Stang4Me; 11/26/17 03:48 AM.
#4393716 - 12/08/17 12:41 AM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Stang4Me Offline
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Stang4Me  Offline
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Hi Guys

With this post, the P-51D Cockpit Plans are complete.

They now total 374 individual drawings, all with multiple views and dimensions. I will continue to update these if corrections or un-drawn parts are found. Time to focus on the Spitfire and the F-18 / AV8B.

Here are some of the final pictures.

With the help of Aircorps, I was able to get the missing ordinates for the "top" of stations 75.5 - 146 and now we have a complete and absolute accurate profile for all the rib stations. I have also included for Rib Stations 75.5 - 146, both the original engineering drawing and the Simulator Part drawing. This way you don't have to figure out how you're going to make the part from the drawing. It's all provided for you.

Enjoy and let me know if you have any questions.

[Linked Image]
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Stang out

Last edited by Stang4Me; 12/08/17 12:42 AM.
#4415136 - 04/07/18 03:56 AM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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jumpmyster Offline
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USA
I have a Vet who wants me to build a P-51 cockpit for him . How can I purchase these plans? They look incredible! I've helped him rebuild him rebuild his current simulator, but he wants to do something more authentic. I'm new to this forum,and hoping for some help. Thanks


Trent
#4415915 - 04/11/18 09:55 PM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Beazil Offline
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At the risk of derailing your nice thread on the hard work you've put into putting together a comprehensive package for those with the skills, time and $ to build one of your impressive "pits" slightly, do you have any pictures of a finished pit yet?

If one of you has purchased and completed this project it would be really nice to see some snapshots of a finished version. Or even of work in progress, if that would be possible. Sorry for the slight OT, and thanks for listening.

#4465094 - 03/12/19 06:12 AM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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Damo731 Offline
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Does anybody know where to find copy of the P-51 plans I’ve tried contacting Stang but no luck!

#4465304 - 03/13/19 09:03 AM Re: P-51D Cockpit Plans HERE [Re: Stang4Me]  
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453Raafspitty Offline
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