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#4384517 - 10/12/17 12:24 PM A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus  
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Haggart Offline
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[Linked Image]
NASA scientists have found more evidence that Saturn's icy moon Enceladus could support life: the presence of hydrogen molecules in huge geysers of water shooting up from the surface.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
This enhanced-color Cassini view of southern latitudes on Enceladus features the bluish "tiger stripe" fractures that rip across the south polar region.
Credits: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Space Science Institute


https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/cassini-sees-heat-below-the-icy-surface-of-enceladus

[Linked Image]
1997 - the launch of Cassini as its journey begins

[Linked Image]
20 yrs later - the journey ends - fragments of Cassini explorer as it pierces Saturn's atomosphere





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#4384518 - 10/12/17 12:28 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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Yawn. Yet another "earth shattering" revelation by NASA that some planet or moon could have supported life in the past because water was found. By this point these stories are a dime a dozen. smile

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/12/17 12:36 PM.

Mandata tua!
#4384520 - 10/12/17 12:33 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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If only Carl S. could of seen this finding


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4384521 - 10/12/17 12:37 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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*could have.

Sorry, it’s a pet peeve of mine. smile


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#4384522 - 10/12/17 12:38 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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They do seem to have a very effective asteroid/meteor barrier in the South and West though.
What's the deal there?

#4384532 - 10/12/17 01:24 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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If you look at the scar on the southern hemisphere closely, you can see that it resembles that of something formed from an impact long ago, since frozen over. I'm skeptical the source beneath the surface providing all that heat is natural, given that Enceladus has a diameter of only 154 miles, despite the theorized tidal heating(which is logical). Further exploration is absolutely warranted here. We need to see what is below the surface of that scar.

#4384540 - 10/12/17 02:16 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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A Dyson sphere, with a small black hole as the energy source, is my bet. Built by super-advanced Dodos who then founded a failed colony on Earth. I further assume that they are plotting their revenge already.

#4384547 - 10/12/17 02:37 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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If it doesn't have life, we should seed it.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

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#4384555 - 10/12/17 03:02 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Ssnake]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
A Dyson sphere, with a small black hole as the energy source, is my bet. Built by super-advanced Dodos who then founded a failed colony on Earth. I further assume that they are plotting their revenge already.



Well played sir, well played!


Mandata tua!
#4384556 - 10/12/17 03:04 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
If it doesn't have life, we should seed it.



If the Swedish women's soccer team goes there I will gladly make the tough choice and volunteer to travel there as well.


It's worth the risk and I have made my peace and am ready to go. I do this to better mankind. biggrin

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/12/17 03:05 PM.

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#4384560 - 10/12/17 03:19 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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...and of course as soon as you establish an internet satellite link you'll start posting to Earth>SimHQ from Enceladus


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4384564 - 10/12/17 03:35 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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I've always wondered why we're so hellbent on having our probes being so sterile.

We know Mars is a rock.

We also know we have several life forms here on Earth that can handle the conditions there.

If I were running NASA, the next rover going would be inserting microbes and fungi under the soil to see if we can kick start that sucker.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
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#4384570 - 10/12/17 04:18 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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If they found primitive life there, bet the US men's soccer team couldn't beat them either...

#4384571 - 10/12/17 04:28 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: piper]  
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Originally Posted by piper
If they found primitive life there, bet the US men's soccer team couldn't beat them either...



Oh snap! Meh, it's soccer anyway so who cares unless it's Swedish women. wink


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#4384573 - 10/12/17 04:54 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
I've always wondered why we're so hellbent on having our probes being so sterile.

We know Mars is a rock.

We also know we have several life forms here on Earth that can handle the conditions there.

If I were running NASA, the next rover going would be inserting microbes and fungi under the soil to see if we can kick start that sucker.


Because these world's are considered pristine natural environments and NASA and the ESA feel it is not our place to put them at an unreasonable risk of contamination from earth life that could place any current ecosystems at risk.

There is more to the survival of life than planting microbes. For one, Mars has no soil or liquid surface water, therefore no dissolved nutrients would be available that are necessary for Earth life. Planting there will do nothing. Mars also has no magnetosphere so the surface is bombarded by cosmic radiation. So even if somehow some type of life from Earth could be cultivated and an earth-like atomsphere developed, it would do humans no good (if living there is your ultimate goal). The surface would still be long term lethal to humans and most "higher" life if left unshielded.

#4384623 - 10/12/17 09:11 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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I don't understand that first or last picture. The last picture in particular; what took the picture of the probe breaking up in the atmosphere? Even more astonishing to me is that whatever took the picture of the Cassini appears to be IN the atmosphere of Saturn recording the break up. For example you see terrain below and blue sky above with rings off in the distant. Almost as if the picture were taken by something flying within the atmosphere. Odd. If its another satellite I didn't know they had that low of an orbit and could thus acquire such images...??.... If its a real photo and not a NASA composite why can't we seem to get brand new, up to date, fully high-res, NON composite photographs of the moon? I'd also like to see a picture of the earth from the outside that is not a composite. I don't mind if its a crappy photo or with a wide field of view I would just like to see a normal snapshot with one camera of the earth that isn't pieced together.

#4384637 - 10/12/17 10:37 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
I've always wondered why we're so hellbent on having our probes being so sterile.


Purely for (important) scientific reasons.

  • IF we find life there AND can be certain that our probes didn't bring it there, we'll have not only a sample of the size "1" (Earth, we know there's life here), but "2" or "3" (Enceladus, and Europa) out of 3 places that we identified as likely candidates. Make that four, should we actually discover life on Mars.
    So, that would be the most "optimistic" result that we might discover. IN THAT CASE the chances that life is a universal property of planets with liquid water rise dramatically. In which case the chances of this galaxy bearing more than one technologica society are much higher. Which may be good or bad news, as we may find ourselves no longer at the top of the food chain.
  • If we find no life anywhere else, the likelihood of the universe being a largely sterile place increase dramatically.
  • For results "in between" (say, one other place out of four candidates in this solar system) scientific stidy will be most interesting. In that case it's particularly important to have no contamination with Terran bacteria because only then can we study a truly alien life form. Once that contamination occurs we can no longer know which elements that look familiar are actually familiar because we brought it there, and which elements developed independently.

Once that we are reasonably certain whether or not these three solar candidates bear life or not the decision to "spread life" (=our life) is essentially a political decision, not a scientific one. But for the science part, we only get one chance to do it right, and at the moment we don't seem to have the technology to ASSURE that our space probes are free of contamination. Our bacteria arfe small, and in huge numbers. We can easily kill 99.9999% of all bacteria on a satellite, but the scientists want 100%, not rounded up. That is a challenge that we aren't ready to meet, yet.

#4384638 - 10/12/17 10:40 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
I don't understand that first or last picture. The last picture in particular; what took the picture of the probe breaking up in the atmosphere? Even more astonishing to me is that whatever took the picture of the Cassini appears to be IN the atmosphere of Saturn recording the break up. For example you see terrain below and blue sky above with rings off in the distant. Almost as if the picture were taken by something flying within the atmosphere. Odd. If its another satellite I didn't know they had that low of an orbit and could thus acquire such images...??.... If its a real photo and not a NASA composite why can't we seem to get brand new, up to date, fully high-res, NON composite photographs of the moon? I'd also like to see a picture of the earth from the outside that is not a composite. I don't mind if its a crappy photo or with a wide field of view I would just like to see a normal snapshot with one camera of the earth that isn't pieced together.


Both the first and last images are from the computer generated Cassini mission video that NASA produced. None of it was "real", because as you mentioned, there would have to be some other platform for taking the photos of Cassini, as the story was being told.

You can watch the video here, there are some parts which are real Cassini images, and plenty that is computer generated dramatizations:


#4384640 - 10/12/17 10:42 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
I don't understand that first or last picture. The last picture in particular; what took the picture of the probe breaking up in the atmosphere?

An artist's imagination, and Photoshop magick.
The first picture may have been taken by the lander Huygens, on his way to Titan, short after the separation from Cassini.

#4384647 - 10/12/17 11:13 PM Re: A Vast Ocean of Water Lies Beneath the Frozen Crust of Saturn's Moon, Enceladus [Re: Haggart]  
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the last picture is a artist recreation.


And we as its creators don't feel ready to hear your annoyed jabber about it.
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