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#4379266 - 09/12/17 09:18 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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#4379348 - 09/13/17 09:56 AM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
...."no other military simulator i know of, including falcon bms, has ATC remotely resembling the realism you get on something like pilotedge. the gps is directly related to the ability to comply with modern ATC traffic control. VOR approaches are still in use in some places, but if you want to be able to fit into the average traffic flow at a big airport you're going to need to be able to fly an RNAV approach.

some of you might want to try it. you will likely be chewed out by controllers if you don't know how to do procedures properly or if you use radio terminology that is not in line with FAA/US military standards. How many people here even know how to work their transponder and its different modes? This addon is a great chance to improve your real airmanship, but again only if the navdata can be updated regularly using navigraph.
....

If\When DCS implement Human ATC....you would get these examples below, not a scripted sales pitch by actual airline pilots as is on the pilotedge home page.....

In reality....as in IRL....DCS multiplayer with human ATC would be something along the lines of these fine examples.....





Or perhaps....


#4379354 - 09/13/17 10:39 AM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
...


hahahahaha, first time i see these videos and i found them hilarious

thanks for sharing

BTW, this is probably what DCS would offers XD

#4379376 - 09/13/17 02:12 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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I'd probably fly DCS just for that entertainment factor!! smile


- Ice
#4379377 - 09/13/17 02:13 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield

In reality....as in IRL....DCS multiplayer with human ATC would be something along the lines of these fine examples.....


Sadly, you're not too far off the mark. The few servers that host a Simple Radio are getting that way. The large majority are fine, but a few leak in and garbage up the radios with chatter, despite established freqs for CAP, A2G, ATC, etc...
Or they arent on comms and just do whatever they want. Buzz the field repeatedly or takeoff opposite traffic flow.

#4379413 - 09/13/17 05:05 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: ST0RM]  
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Originally Posted by ST0RM
Originally Posted by Winfield

In reality....as in IRL....DCS multiplayer with human ATC would be something along the lines of these fine examples.....


Sadly, you're not too far off the mark. The few servers that host a Simple Radio are getting that way. The large majority are fine, but a few leak in and garbage up the radios with chatter, despite established freqs for CAP, A2G, ATC, etc...
Or they arent on comms and just do whatever they want. Buzz the field repeatedly or takeoff opposite traffic flow.


but then again...

Originally Posted by Nate
I'm sure he'll be back to explain once he's slept off his hangover

Nate



Nate would have to repeat this comment numerous times if ever there came about a "DCS Human ATC thread" and postings were allowed here or there (ED)......especially the recordings that would be posted to youtube as Airforceproud95 does with all his FSX vids. oh the humanity.....Everyone enjoys a realistic "combat simulator" Let's not forget.....most people who would join as ATC would need to blow higher than 0,08% in order to "control" the airspace and add to the multiplayer realism......

#4379427 - 09/13/17 06:08 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield

but then again...

Originally Posted by Nate
I'm sure he'll be back to explain once he's slept off his hangover

Nate



Nate would have to repeat this comment numerous times if ever there came about a "DCS Human ATC thread" and postings were allowed here or there (ED)......especially the recordings that would be posted to youtube as Airforceproud95 does with all his FSX vids. oh the humanity.....Everyone enjoys a realistic "combat simulator" Let's not forget.....most people who would join as ATC would need to blow higher than 0,08% in order to "control" the airspace and add to the multiplayer realism......


Still haven't gotten over that? LOL

Nate

#4379433 - 09/13/17 06:40 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Still not answered one question, Longbow --- what RL experience do you have to make this call about helicopter flight model?

You are also talking about two things --- flight model and real world procedures. Won't flying in FSX/P3D/XP11 using the same program (ATC service like PilotEdge) still make you a better pilot? Even more, you can fly all over the world in those sims, so while the FM may not be "spot on," you basically see more of the world and get to practice more and different approaches to different airbases. Seems like all DCS really has is a better helo FM.... and then again, what RL experience do you have to make this call?


several thousand flight hours (around 2000 if you want to be particular about it) and probably double or triple that in unloggable time (various reasons i won't discuss online, nothing too dark i assure you)

my first loggable flight hours were in a c150, followed by a c172 and then an R22 all on my 12th birthday. various other aircraft fixed and rotary including turbines and multi for both rotary and fixed followed over the years until 9/11 when i changed my career due to the destruction of the industry in north america. i have logged time in everything from tiny singles to 4 engine heavies, the most interesting probably being a turbine cricri experimental copy which is probably a death trap.

now i work primarily as a CRM trainer for japanese, chinese and korean pilots working with their respective national or commercial airlines. i started this company about 4 or 5 years ago.

Last edited by VF9_Longbow; 09/13/17 07:15 PM.
#4379447 - 09/13/17 08:04 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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Thanks for that confirmation, Longbow! smile Interesting to see that DCS gets helos better than XP...

Now my other question... won't flying in FSX/P3D/XP11 using the same program make you a better pilot... if not in aircraft handling, at least in procedures? Is there any difference between FSX/P3D/XP11 vs. DCS that makes one or the other better at enabling pilots to practice procedures and airmanship?


- Ice
#4379451 - 09/13/17 08:40 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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for general fixed wing aviation, p3d or xplane are fine, but DCS is king of the hill for rotary.

yes, procedures won't change much between simulators, but the workload difference is immense when it comes to doing procedures in a helicopter in DCS. p3d and xplane helicopters fly on rails. you may as well be taking the train while talking to ATC.

with DCS you get a lot busier especially in IFR with autopilot off because the aircraft is very dynamic

#4379465 - 09/13/17 11:21 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
for general fixed wing aviation, p3d or xplane are fine, but DCS is king of the hill for rotary.
yes, procedures won't change much between simulators, but the workload difference is immense when it comes to doing procedures in a helicopter in DCS. p3d and xplane helicopters fly on rails. you may as well be taking the train while talking to ATC.
with DCS you get a lot busier especially in IFR with autopilot off because the aircraft is very dynamic

That's quite an interesting point, Longbow. I may try XPlane helos to compare, but this might explain why I'm crap at DCS BS2 smile
Is your last statement applicable to ALL helos in DCS? Or more so for specific helos and not so much for others??


- Ice
#4379524 - 09/14/17 06:29 AM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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All helos, but the Gazelle in DCS is not up to par IMO, though I've never flown the real one. But it feels like something is wrong with it, and from what I understand the developer is a former FSX developer and it shows the flight characteristics. It flies like it's on rails to some extent. The Huey and Mi-8 behave as most helicopters I've flown behave. No idea if the ka-52 is realistic because it's a weird rare helicopter, but it feels like it's a good approximation of what I would expect for that kind of rotor arrangement.

Real helos are easier to fly because the controls are better, having a joystick extension may help with this but I'm not going to spend $1,000 for a joystick with an extension since $1,000 will buy you nearly a dozen rental hours in a light helicopter or pay for half of a new rating to tag on to your license.

Emergency procedures are more difficult in DCS than real life too, in my opinion. It is easier to autorotate and more difficult to get into VRS or other settling-with-power type of situations. Tailwind danger is almost nonexistent in DCS but is a serious risk to be considered in real heli flying especially with obstacles nearby. I think DCS is too forgiving in that respect so it's easy to do vertical takeoffs all day and night at maximum weight. In real helicopters you try to avoid this when you can and use all the available runway or flat space you can.

But at normal flight speeds it is remarkably good, hovers are very well done, especially in ground effect, and DCS has extremely dark nights and very thick fog for wonderful IFR training.

That being said I am primarily a fixed wing pilot and heli flying is just a side-hobby of mine I pursued to broaden career options. I bow to anyone who's got more heli time than me. This is just my experience and opinion.

#4379540 - 09/14/17 09:51 AM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
... since $1,000 will buy you nearly a dozen rental hours in a light helicopter or pay for half of a new rating to tag on to your license.

Wow, about 12 hours of light heli for $1000!? Man, in Germany helicopter flight is soooo expensive.

Agree on the Gazelle, and it sometime behave weird. Pat01 (the code guy) wrote they work on the FM.

#4379559 - 09/14/17 12:19 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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uk 360 per hour :-(


Finishing a product (that has already been paid for) shouldn't be a priority but an obligation.

Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.
#4379570 - 09/14/17 01:03 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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i wonder if that is insurance. if you guys can make it to the countryside in the US or even better, canada, the rates are very cheap still.

if you can fly solo the rental rate is significantly cheaper at most schools too.

it's also worth looking into partial ownership of a helicopter - usually ends up being cheaper per hour and is a good way to build time. have seen R22 partial ownerships for as low as $5,000 before.

#4379571 - 09/14/17 01:05 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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Hahaha!! Nice of you to say that about the Shark, Longbow.... maybe it's not totally my fault! smile Unfortunately, I don't own other helos...

Leaf, might be heli-type dependent? Maybe Longbow is talking about those really small helicopters? He did say light heli.


- Ice
#4379577 - 09/14/17 01:39 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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R22

R44 = 545 per hour


Finishing a product (that has already been paid for) shouldn't be a priority but an obligation.

Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.
#4379619 - 09/14/17 04:00 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Originally Posted by - Ice
Still not answered one question, Longbow --- what RL experience do you have to make this call about helicopter flight model?

You are also talking about two things --- flight model and real world procedures. Won't flying in FSX/P3D/XP11 using the same program (ATC service like PilotEdge) still make you a better pilot? Even more, you can fly all over the world in those sims, so while the FM may not be "spot on," you basically see more of the world and get to practice more and different approaches to different airbases. Seems like all DCS really has is a better helo FM.... and then again, what RL experience do you have to make this call?


several thousand flight hours (around 2000 if you want to be particular about it) and probably double or triple that in unloggable time (various reasons i won't discuss online, nothing too dark i assure you)

my first loggable flight hours were in a c150, followed by a c172 and then an R22 all on my 12th birthday. various other aircraft fixed and rotary including turbines and multi for both rotary and fixed followed over the years until 9/11 when i changed my career due to the destruction of the industry in north america. i have logged time in everything from tiny singles to 4 engine heavies, the most interesting probably being a turbine cricri experimental copy which is probably a death trap.

now i work primarily as a CRM trainer for japanese, chinese and korean pilots working with their respective national or commercial airlines. i started this company about 4 or 5 years ago.


*drops checklist during takeoff run, bends down to retrieve it*

#4379724 - 09/15/17 09:18 AM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow


several thousand flight hours (around 2000 if you want to be particular about it) and probably double or triple that in unloggable time (various reasons i won't discuss online, nothing too dark i assure you)

my first loggable flight hours were in a c150, followed by a c172 and then an R22 all on my 12th birthday. various other aircraft fixed and rotary including turbines and multi for both rotary and fixed followed over the years until 9/11 when i changed my career due to the destruction of the industry in north america. i have logged time in everything from tiny singles to 4 engine heavies, the most interesting probably being a turbine cricri experimental copy which is probably a death trap.

now i work primarily as a CRM trainer for japanese, chinese and korean pilots working with their respective national or commercial airlines. i started this company about 4 or 5 years ago.


As a passenger?? or actually in control of the aircraft?

As a passenger, I have several hundred hours up on heavy's (international and domestic flights) and around 1000 hours in various R22's mustering cattle on properties.

EDIT: My current place of work..... Helimuster situated Outback NT Australia

Last edited by Winfield; 09/15/17 12:07 PM.
#4379762 - 09/15/17 04:58 PM Re: DCS: Garmin GPS [Re: bkthunder]  
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A few hundred hours PIC in helicopters (Don't have heli logbook in Japan right now, in storage) plus a bunch of time PIC but not loggable due to regulation stuff. Mostly related to CRM training and freebies or trades with clients.

Cattle driving sounds like fun. At one point I was considering switching from fixed wing to rotary completely. I was looking at those boats in the pacific to wrangle tuna, now there is a dangerous job. A few accidents every year apparently. No shortage of work I guess.

Do you have a favorite sim copter?

I have to say the DCS Mi-8 is a lot of fun, I fly it a lot more than the Huey.

Heh, I just found this picture someone in my family posted up on facebook: This was my 2nd flight on my 12th birthday in C-FBOG, an ancient C172. Don't think it had a GPS. Very good learning experience. My airfield was TINY so standard approaches were short field, every time. Trees around all sides of the runway so every takeoff was done at best angle of climb. CYCD Nanaimo is about 15 minutes away across the water and they used to have an NDB a few miles off the field. Got a lot of NDB approach practice in marginal conditions. Not sure if that is still there anymore, probably replaced with a GPS fix. But that kind of practice really sticks with you, must be tough for younger folks now who struggle with NDB approaches - too much GPS reliance.

[img]https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.ne...37041d98718e776d8032e6d6&oe=5A159BFF[/img]

And here's a video of some guy making a crappy landing at my home field..! (Not my vid - I'd never bounce a landing that bad biggrin )
[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/nPQ11ZuWcas?t=4m9s[/video]

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