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#4376967 - 08/29/17 11:27 PM Future of EECH Allmods?  
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Hello all you combat flight sim enthusiasts,

I would like to say some words about EECH Allmods. It’s the most interesting attack helicopter simulator since over the last ten years and I bet will be forever. Why? Because there simply exists no other combat helo sim which offers such variety of flyable helicopters with real looking cockpits and a dynamic campaign which makes it possible to use it the next ten years without getting boring.

There is only one other simulator out there which let us fly an attack helicopter in a combat situation. It’s DCS Blackshark. The other modules of DCS aren’t much interesting in my opinion. Who wants to fly a Gazelle? Most people only choose it cause of the lack of other alternatives for DCS. The Huey and the Hip are for sure excellent modules, but are the Huey or the Hip attack helicopters with complex weapon systems? It’s really fun to fly them, cause of their realism in the flight model and the avionics, but a good Huey and also a Hip I can fly in XPlane or FSX (Hovercontrol mod) too.

The other option to fly attack helos is using ARMA 3. It really has become more and more better in case of flight dynamics and it’s the most impressive in case of flying low level over the terrain. You could really do a NOE flying in it and use all of the impressive scenery for not being detected, but it totally lacks in the realism of the weapon systems, the avionics and the handling of them. O.k. it was never planed as a helicopter simulator and what they’ve done to improve the impression of the overall helicopter feeling is really a good job, but it will never be a real realistic attack helicopter simulator with completely fully working systems.

So finally what is left, despite a few nice looking action sims without any reference to the reality? There is only EECH Allmods! O.k. the graphics are a little bit dated, but the community has done so much to improve them. Look at the original game and what the mod now is looking. The attack helicopters are the most realistic you can fly out of DCS with nearly fully working systems. The choice of flyable interesting helicopters at the US and Russian side is unbeaten. There are so many theaters you can fly at and it has a completely dynamic campaign. The flight dynamics are mostly realistic, the cockpits are able to be fully functional, the weapon systems are modeled well and all is also configurable for future improvements. The source code is open to the community so everyone with enough knowledge is able to make the sim more realistic, better looking (in the range of the graphics engine) or add totally new content to it! It’s something we ever have dreamed of.

So I really hope this mod will not die! I have this apprehension, because no one is working on it anymore since nearly two years. Not even a small bugfix since spring 2016. C’mon guys it’s all we rotorheads have!!! Show me any other comparable attack helicopter simulation, which still runs on a modern system (so no Jane’s Longbow Anthology or Di Longbow or Hind) and I will shut up!

To all which made this mod so great, come back again! Don’t let this outstanding piece of software go to the graveyard. It’s old, but notice what has been done to Falcon BMS. It’s far away from dying. Those two community mods could be the only future for fans of modern combat flying simulators. The other in my opinion a bit overpriced alternative does not even care what people would like to have in their simulation and every single new stuff take years to hit the shelves if it even gets finished. You also have to pay for a few new missions or another theater. The aircraft modules are worth the money if you like them, but also paying for simple bunch of missions called campaign and nearly every new terrain? Allmods have all of this just right after the install and it's always possible to add any new stuff. If the system reaches it's limits I think it could be simple possible to make a new fork of the mod. Maybe one for the coldwar era and another for the 2000 until now era. Not any other attack helicopter sim give us the possibility to make things become reality which the community really wants.

O.k. that’s only my two cents and I hope some others see it the same way I did.

Regards Viper


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#4377068 - 08/30/17 06:34 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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AMEN smile
I also have hope that thealx firebird soczkien will back to eech.

#4377138 - 08/31/17 01:42 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: XIII]  
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Originally Posted by blackshark
AMEN smile
I also have hope that thealx firebird soczkien will back to eech.

My list is much bigger. I want everyone who was ever involved. It should be fun.

#4377147 - 08/31/17 02:47 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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No no,one thealx is enough biggrin its joking,dont get me wrong,we all love this game wink

#4377742 - 09/04/17 10:41 AM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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I appreciate your post, and I too would like there to be a bigger modding community. Unfortunately people have to give up their own time to work on this project, and at times it doesn't seem like there's many people playing the game anymore.

For example, the response to my initial blackhawk cockpit release has been pretty lacking. I don't think there are many people that have tried it, and that made me feel a bit down about it. I've spent a long time over many years of my own time to get it to this point. And then it's hardly being used. I know it's not finished yet, and I probably will get back to it soon to get it in a more finished state.

Ideally we probably need a group of modders, and a common goal. Similar to the mods that exist for IL-2 sturmovik, that do big updates and have a bunch of modders on it. With this game, I often find that it's individuals working on their own thing, and the game gets an update that doesn't always improve things, or that fix things that have been asked for. But how do we get modders to come back to this game? It's a tricky problem.

#4377778 - 09/04/17 03:53 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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Generally the simulations are dying ,Look at the whole forum SimHQ- dies.
Even the dcs subforum is almost dead.in comparison what was a few years ago.In simulators people play 30 40 50 years old.

new ones are not arriving.
Only bms is in good condition.I will not be surprised if in a few years simq will be down frown

#4377779 - 09/04/17 04:19 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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Yes blackshark, sadly I think you are right sigh .

Hope we can activate a few old horses like us to come back to the genre. The new generation prefers mostly the brainless action with a lot of eyecandy in.

Never unsterstood how people are interested in flying eg. Strike Fighters with the greasing finger across there smartphones. Wow, what a kind of realistic impression must that be! screwy

I can understand to play games like Settlers or Ages of the Empire on a smartphone or a tablet, but even action sims or race games with no convenient control input device?!?

If this is the future of video gaming I will quit my hobby! Maybe I will go back to scale RC, but even here the trend goes to drones banghead .

C'mon guys let us show the young generation what's really interesting. I think it's worth a try. Maybe some of the older ones will come back again too, if they find interesting simulators which are reborn. Falcon BMS has managed it, too.

Perhaps we could find a bit assistance in the BMS community if we told them that a real promissing simulator is going to die. I think people who are interested in fighter jets maybe also interested in attack helicopters. Even worth a try! What could we loose?

Just think of what was Falcon 4.0 in it's original state. I think EECH has the same potential and the source code is even official accessible.


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#4377809 - 09/04/17 07:57 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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I doubt it makes sense. nopeGood programmers are very not few.Nobody will leave a favorite simulator for the idea.and will come here.We need hope for better times.

#4377818 - 09/04/17 09:12 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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Maybe you are right with this too. sigh

It's only that I really hate to see EECH Allmods dying and I can't do nothing, because I'm not able to do so. nope

The time I need to learn sufficient programming and how the code of EECH works will take years, and than there is really no one who cares for it anymore.

Also I can't really understand why people invest so much time over the years in their "baby" and than let it die in an unfinished state? At least the biggest bugs should be removed before it will be retired. That's just my conclusion, don't know if anyone else has the same view.

What I could see in the code (and I've also tried to fix some things, but was totally lost with my coding knowledge hahaha ) it isn't so much what have to be done, but as said I'm no programmer, I only see things the logical way (looking at parts I undertsand and see what could be probably missing, excluded etc. / but there are so many files that are linked to each other, so only the people who made it know how all works together), so maybe I'm totally wrong.

But if some guys of the old team could come back for only a short time, maybe it's possible to bring EECH to a more finished state for retirement. That's all I really hope!

Last edited by Viper1970; 09/04/17 10:11 PM.

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ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
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#4377888 - 09/05/17 08:52 AM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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If there are people in BMS community with C programming skills, and D3D, and are willing to come across, then they'll be more than welcome.

#4377981 - 09/05/17 06:54 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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Would be great, but probably Blackshark is right here.

What I've seen until now is, that it was even a problem to get some hardware tips in one community for my homepit which could be also usefull for another different simulator, but has nothing to do with the simulation itself the community stands for.

It's often like a kind of members club. The folks of A-club want to have nothing to do with B-club, B-club people want not to hear anything about A-club, C-club fans hate A & B-club and so on. Sometimes it's really a bit ridiculous. We are all simulation enthusiasts and should of course help each other if we can, because we all share one great hobby which is, as Blackshark precise brought to the point, genre comprehensive going to die, if we do not avouch a bit. I really would like to change this and I also have tried a lot.

I will try to carefully ask in other communities if there are people, who are willing to help a bit to keep EECH Allmods alive. I hope we get some response.

Does anyone of you know the guys of the originally team which made this great mod and maybe could ask if they want to come back to the project? Of course it would be great to expand and update Allmods further, but I think for the moment it's already enough to fix the greatest bugs. Maybe if some people are back and we can also find some new ones, the EECH fever strikes again.

I think that the bugs also could be the reason that not much people are interested in EECH Allmods at the moment. Not fully working helicopters are a problem and if it seems that no one concerns in this anymore and you as player have no option to fix it, what would you do?

Last edited by Viper1970; 09/05/17 07:09 PM.

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ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4377984 - 09/05/17 07:43 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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You can look back to the very old posts on the forum and find lots of info from the early days. Arneh was one of the main guys, along with a few others. But they've not posted for a long time. I think I asked Arneh a year of so ago, and he didn't have any plans to come back. Firebird is around now and again, but not seen him post for a while.

#4377987 - 09/05/17 08:00 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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My heart also bleeding Viper wink I like your enthusiasm, maybe something will succeed. Good luck .

#4378007 - 09/05/17 10:50 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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O.k. lets make "nails with heads" (German proverb) hahaha

- Do you think that I should ask for some assistance in the Benchmark Sims forum or is this a bit ignorant? offtopic boom
Maybe EECH Allmods can get something like the little brother of BMS bottles


- What other modding communities could also considered for support and are tolerant to other simulations. I read in the old threads that some part of software of IL-2 was used for the commserver. Did you get support of the people of this community back those days? Maybe they are willing to help now, too.


- Should we ask for aid at the mainpage of the SimHQ forum to adress also some people which have overlooked the EECH forum until now?


- Could you also ask some of the people which were your friends back those days at this project (@ messyhead and thealx biggrin )


- Are the old modders of this mod (what a spelling winkngrin ) consent to this proposition? (for me a real important question, cause they've done the basic work and we have to respect their aspects)


If those things are clarified I will do my very best to get this great project running again. It's all I can do, because at the technical part I will not be a great assistance for you all. nope

Last edited by Viper1970; 09/05/17 11:06 PM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
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#4378113 - 09/06/17 04:07 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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The main forum is SimHQ and bms is probably the main target.I thought once about something like that, even on the fb combat helo I announced.but i use only translator, my english sucks.Perhaps the most important advertising and motivation is that very little is missing for full-fledged apache d model, with flir, radar and pnvs.There is no such thing and it will not be in any apache simulator.
almost ready is fully clickable mi24 cockpit gunner and pilot .with complete support of the target system.and a great blackhawk cockpit.
The game is completely remodeled
real parameters of missiles, flight physics.
actual thermobaric explosions and damage.new model of damage.hundreds of fixes, and improvements.This is no longer a simple arcade game, it's a half simulator.
So much for me;) it should be written for sure.I'm not a programmer,
So specialist things will not write.

#4378165 - 09/06/17 08:11 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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Hi Guys,

I have done a bit of programming is the distant past (Pascal, Basic, Javascript) and more recently in HTML and ASP, but never either C or C++. A while back I got access to the GIT and downloaded the version then with the intention of adding some stuff to be exported that would improve my pit.

As I've said, I'm no stranger to some code, but the problem I had was that anything I'd ever written has been linear in flow. With EECH the project is so big I got lost trying to find where things were. I know this is probably because it was a team that wrote it and they would each write their own bits, but that makes it really difficult to follow.

Even if some of the existing modders could put together a sort of block diagram I think that would help. I would really like to help to get the bugs out and get some improvements in to the game, but I'm not sure I'm up to the work.

Andy


Andy's simpit: http://www.simpit.me.uk
#4378308 - 09/07/17 12:38 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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Hi Andy,

yes you are right. I'm no programmer, but some things even I was able to undertsand, but there are so many files in the code that are associated to each other that you really quick get lost with the overview.

Something like a diagram or even a simple text file which descripes for what the different parts are standing would really help. I for example had troubles to find out in which parts of the code a complete cockpit is defined (3D, textures, instruments, hud and so on)

Every time I tried to complile my "fixes" (don't know if they are fixes or making more worse at all - just trial and error here biggrin ) the compiler stoped with an error in another file, fixed that and then the next error appeared and so on. You get very quick totally lost in code sigh .

And if you are someone like me, it's more probable that you make things with every new "correction" more worse than better banghead . But I don't want to give up on EECH so I have at least tried to fix some very small things, sadly without any success untill now.

@blackshark

my English isn't also very good. I must often use LEO (online dictionary) for finding the right words reading and believe me that's not always right. Especially if I want to descripe some technical things. I think many of the guys here which come from the US or UK have it sometimes really hard to understand what I try to tell them screwy blahblahblah .

But we are a community with the same interest and hobby, so we are like friends and friends learn to know what each other wants or is trying to descripe bottles

I also think that EECH Allmods is the best we ever will get and maybe the last real attack helicopter simulator which is able to run on modern systems. It's the only one with US helicopters in and any new stuff we will see will most likely only be action oriented.

DCS never played a major role for me, although I have bought some of there modules as they were on sale at Steam. For my budget it's simply to expensive (notably the system you must have to run it with really fluid FPS) and I also didn't like there company policy that much. But if we aren't able to resurrect EECH Allmods, it will be the only alternative to fly a combat helo in a simulation. If they will ever bring some interesting attack helicopters to DCS World is another question. And even if they do so it's quiet unlikely that I will experience it in my lifetime goodnight (and I'm only 47 now biggrin --> Hornet 7 years? --> Apache XX years?)

I hope that we are able to effectuate a bit here and my dream is that sometimes in future Allmods maybe will be at the same state as Falcon BMS is now. It's not that much what is missing in EECH, so there is a real chance to achieve it. We only need some people that are willing to invest a bit of their time in it.





CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
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#4378353 - 09/07/17 03:38 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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I might try putting together an explanation of some of the code I've worked on for adding my Blackhawk pit, from what I've found. To be honest, I usually change what I think needs changed, then rely on the compiler to tell me what I've missed.

It seems for adding a pit, there are a few key files that need updated.

For other things like graphics rendering, or AI, I'm pretty lost in that code.

#4378531 - 09/08/17 04:28 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
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Hi messyhead,

that's nice. It would really help a lot. I'm not having much time and desire for the cockpit at the moment because of my disease, so I could not test EECH with the pit, but I hope it will get better in the nearer future. There are many things I have to regulate just know, but if I could and beeing able to do so, I try to do my best that at least EECH Allmods continues.

I think that Andy could help a bit with the pit related things if he is able to get some time for it. Maybe we could use also something similar like F4ToPokeys as a second option in future to control a homepit with EECH. This would make things much easier, because Pokeys modules aren't really expensive and could do many things for interfacing a cockpit. I also took a look at the OpenCockpits system, but this is much more complicated as the system BMS uses to comunicate with a homecockpit via shared memory.

I don't want to give up with the cockpit project, but since this year it's nearly impossible to get further. Most of the time I only spent here in the forum, because working at my hobby isn't feasible as things stand now. I tried it a few times but it doesn't make a great meaning currently. Because of this, I decided to use the time left for trying to fix some things at EECH Allmods if I'm able to. For this I need only the laptop and my brain biggrin

I'm hoping that we could get Allmods staying alive and of course I have planed to use it if my cockpit gets finished sometimes in future. No Allmods, no Cockpit, because it was ever a major part of the project, if not the most important one. As said I'm a real rotorhead, for sure I also like fighter jets but helos are more interesting to me, so I don't wanna miss them.

If it had to be clear at the beginning of the construction that there is no way to use attack helicopters with it, I had not decided to built a home cockpit. This project was allways a all in one solution, because I thought that only for one simulator or even one aircraft such a big complex project doesn't make any sense. I know that many guys make there pits only for one thing but this was never what I planned and also I didn't understand it. For only one bird I had choosen to stay with my HOTAS at the desk. Racing fans also do not built a race sim pit only to drive it with one car, so never understood why this is so for flight simulation. It's possible to make it more universal, so why not doing it? I like realism but I don't want to have an aircraft trainer at home, because I'm simply no real pilot. It's just fun and a hobby and that's why I like to have a bit more options to use it with.

So there are two things that constitute my enthusiasm for EECH, one is my personal need for it and the second is my fear that there will be no attack helicopter sim ever exist if Allmods is dying. I thought that there are some other guys too, which share the enthusiasm for helos and we could bring the mod back to life.

For my part I will do what I can to help this mod and hope that some other guys have also an interest in it.

Last edited by Viper1970; 09/08/17 05:04 PM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4378915 - 09/11/17 03:41 AM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 26
thinkr Offline
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thinkr  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 26
USA
Completely agree with you Viper1970 & Messyhead! EECH Needs more Support! Start a KickStarter band Define what you want to accomplish and set a budget!

Just to help out the NEWBS out there I think we should also add or fix up the install guide...
This is just what I do for my friends and I so we can all play multi together.... Your list might differ....

===========================
1. Install EECH from CD - (EEAH no longer needed)

2. Install : eech-allmods-1.16.0FIX1-installer

3. Download and install: NEW US model <all model packag>
Here - Thx rapota!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4r7vg_VDKwLWXBUM3NMakNOSXc/view?usp=sharing

4. Download and install
Blackhawk Cockpit
Here - Thx messyhead!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_9WsInmSbhuQnQtUUNSalZQNjA/view?usp=sharing

5. Download and install
NEW US model NAVY LCAC /NAVY LCU / & NAVY O.H.Perry class
Here - Thx rapota!
http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...-8-lcac-and-lcu-and-o-h-perr#Post4310055

6. Right Click the file:
C:\Razorworks\cohokum\cohokum.exe
Click Compatibility tab
Check -Disable Display scaling on high DPI settings
Check -disable desktop composition
Check - Run-this-program-as-Administrator
Hit OK!

Build Andy's Sim Pit
http://www.simpit.me.uk/photos/dash/d24.JPG
http://www.simpit.me.uk/photos/index.htm
http://www.simpit.me.uk/

Thanx to all Modders and Coders that Made EECH Possible!
Finished! Done! Enjoy!
Did I miss anything?

Last edited by thinkr; 09/11/17 04:21 AM.
#4378935 - 09/11/17 10:25 AM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
Hello thinkr,

maybe a good idea, don't know. It seems that I'm the only one who cares for EECH Allmods at the moment and sadly I'm not really able to fix the few bugs it still has, on my own. Just look at the response here in the forum. I think not many guys are interested in fixing EECH at the moment. It's really sad but I can't do much more as I've tried to do.

As I said I would do what I can to help if some other guys come back to the project, but for the coding part I'm totally lost with my knowledge. At the moment in my opinion to much things aren't working, especially in the later versions after 1.15.2 Fix5. Don't know if the Blackhawk is now finished, because the last time I have downloaded it is about 2 months ago. The Havoc cockpit was always not working since 1.15.2 and the Hokum ever had incorrect instruments.

As I'm not really able to fix the bugs in Allmods, I have tried a few new things for the cockpit. I hope I can work on it a bit more next spring, but at the moment it's sadly not possible for me to directly work at it because of some limitations I have in motivity.

What I've tested maybe interesting for cockpit builders ( Andy winkngrin / chaff & flare indicators and so on - I have still to test what's extractable in EECH to a second display) . Don't know if others make it that way too, but I use one big TFT behind my center panel for displaying the upper two MFD's and the main gauges, another one which is only 5.25'' for the third bottom center MFD and one 7.00'' rotated 90° at the right side for the engine gauges. I made bezels for them to look like a real instrument. This is of course mainly for Falcon BMS, because with EECH I'm still experimenting.

I have tried to use a I/O controller card to trigger some warning and indicator lights and some 7-segment displays also, but this is really problematic because every simulator needs it's own hardware. So the idea came to my mind to display those lights or the 7-segment-displays with the use of a TFT too (if the simulation has the feature to extract those lights to another display), but most TFT with an DVI or VGA interface are to big to place them somewhere in the cockpit between switches etc. The smallest I could find is the one I use for my center bottom MFD which is 5.25'' and they are really rare to get. Mostly the smallest are 7.00''.

But at my search on ebay I found alot of smaller TFT (4.3'' and beneath) for use with something like rear view cameras in cars. Those are mostly inexpensive, but have a big drawback. They use a simple video interfacing for connection. So I have bought a cheap chinese VGA to Video converter (NOT only a simple adapter! - MUST be a converter!) and connect this between a 4.3'' TFT and the grapic card as second monitor. IT WORKS without any problems!

The whole display is only 10cm x 7cm, ideal for a warning light block in the cockpit or as an replacement for 7-segment displays in something like a radio panel. This makes the universal use of a pit a bit easier to do and I hope I can get this working with EECH also.

Last edited by Viper1970; 09/11/17 10:48 AM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4379028 - 09/11/17 07:27 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
messyhead Offline
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messyhead  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
Can I just check what version you mean by "All Mods"? What version are you currently using?

I'm just getting my laptop set up again, and would like to look into this issue first.

#4379030 - 09/11/17 07:32 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 486
XIII Offline
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XIII  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 486
latest 1.16,1

he use 1.15x because working gauges in havoc. but many bugs in this version.which are fixed in 1.16.1, but in 1.16 not working gauges in havoc wink lol;)

#4379052 - 09/11/17 11:10 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
I use 1.15.2 Fix5 with a little bit larger hesco barriers I made myself with Lightwave 3D at the laptop of my friend. So no more tail rotor damage with the Havoc and the Hind but still a working Havoc pit. I have also fixed some things in the Hokum which I was able to do.

1.16.0 Fix1 isn't perfect at all. It has a lot of new problems with collisions at the new airfields. They look much more impressive for sure, but you have similar problems like with the old hesco barriers in 1.15.2. Sometimes the helo crashes with invisible objects after you start the rotor. The Europe Map is most buggy here.

I know that 1.16.0 has a better terrain, but if you go for the helicopters 1.15.2 Fix5 is the better solution. And I play a simulator to fly helos not for seeing a more impressive terrain.
For a simulator the most important things are the weapon systems and the instruments in the cockpit, that's why it is called attack helicopter simulation.

If you like US helicopters the best solution is using 1.15.4 Clickable Cockpits at the moment. It has all US helos, including the UH-60 and they are working as much as I could see. It has also the Mi-24 with the gunner position and for sure also clickable cockpits for more realism, but the Havoc isn't useable anymore.

The Hokum had never a really working pit since it is in the game.

There isn't a perfect version at the moment, it's only what you prefer or is more important to you. and then you have to choose the smallest evil at all. I want to fly the Havoc so I want to have a working cockpit. If you only play US campaigns, you do not need a working pit in the Havoc and you will never understand why some one other is disturbed by something you think of that's not important, but not all people have the same needs.

If there is a way to get the Havoc (which was already in the original game of Razorworks, and was one reason I choose EEAH back those days, because an Apache, and even Kiowa and a Blackhawk I had already with Longbow 2 those days) working again, I also would prefer 1.16.0 over the other versions. Finally I think all helicopters which are in the game had to be fully useable, and that's the most important thing before any other new features. A better looking terrain is awsome and new buildings are really impressive, but what is it worth if the helicopters in a helicopter simulator have no working or not right working instruments?

It's the same like you want to make a race with a race car with 800 horsepower, wide-base tyres and all you ever have dreamed of but it has no brakes. Who cares, we want to win, who needs a brake and the car looks real fantastic.

Last edited by Viper1970; 09/11/17 11:58 PM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4379094 - 09/12/17 07:19 AM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
messyhead Offline
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messyhead  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
Originally Posted by Viper1970
I use 1.15.2 Fix5 with a little bit larger hesco barriers I made myself with Lightwave 3D at the laptop of my friend. So no more tail rotor damage with the Havoc and the Hind but still a working Havoc pit. I have also fixed some things in the Hokum which I was able to do.

1.16.0 Fix1 isn't perfect at all. It has a lot of new problems with collisions at the new airfields. They look much more impressive for sure, but you have similar problems like with the old hesco barriers in 1.15.2. Sometimes the helo crashes with invisible objects after you start the rotor. The Europe Map is most buggy here.

I know that 1.16.0 has a better terrain, but if you go for the helicopters 1.15.2 Fix5 is the better solution. And I play a simulator to fly helos not for seeing a more impressive terrain.
For a simulator the most important things are the weapon systems and the instruments in the cockpit, that's why it is called attack helicopter simulation.

If you like US helicopters the best solution is using 1.15.4 Clickable Cockpits at the moment. It has all US helos, including the UH-60 and they are working as much as I could see. It has also the Mi-24 with the gunner position and for sure also clickable cockpits for more realism, but the Havoc isn't useable anymore.

The Hokum had never a really working pit since it is in the game.

There isn't a perfect version at the moment, it's only what you prefer or is more important to you. and then you have to choose the smallest evil at all. I want to fly the Havoc so I want to have a working cockpit. If you only play US campaigns, you do not need a working pit in the Havoc and you will never understand why some one other is disturbed by something you think of that's not important, but not all people have the same needs.

If there is a way to get the Havoc (which was already in the original game of Razorworks, and was one reason I choose EEAH back those days, because an Apache, and even Kiowa and a Blackhawk I had already with Longbow 2 those days) working again, I also would prefer 1.16.0 over the other versions. Finally I think all helicopters which are in the game had to be fully useable, and that's the most important thing before any other new features. A better looking terrain is awsome and new buildings are really impressive, but what is it worth if the helicopters in a helicopter simulator have no working or not right working instruments?

It's the same like you want to make a race with a race car with 800 horsepower, wide-base tyres and all you ever have dreamed of but it has no brakes. Who cares, we want to win, who needs a brake and the car looks real fantastic.


Thanks. I'll need to try and find the timeline in the code for the 1.15.2Fix5. It's not well labelled when things were released, so it's difficult to track down what changes were made for a release.

Also, the airfield mod in 1.16 was optional, and marked as experimental as it was unfinished. Personally, I wouldn't have included it in the release as it was unfinished. But it wasn't my decision. I think that's part of the problem with the disjointed mod community we have had. Whilst individuals have done great things to improve the sim, there's no consensus about what gets included. For example, Rapota's model improvements were really good, and only needed a little more work to finish them off. I think they should have been worked on by other modders to help finish it, and get them into a release (something I'm thinking of doing).

Could you grab a screenshot of the Havoc pit with the working gauges so I know what I'm looking to fix? I also think this helo should have remained fully functional as it was part of the original game, and the one I preferred to fly whenever I played it.

#4379103 - 09/12/17 08:48 AM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
Yes I have also seen this in the sourcecode on eech.codebasehq.
I was totally lost to find which version is which?
Was a trial and error thing, so I downloaded tons of branches to get maybe the right code for the different versions.

Sad that many things messed up, because there was so much suberb and impressing things made for this game.

Here is the screenshot of the Havoc pit in EECH Allmods 1.15.2 Fix5: (look at the warning lights and the torque indicator, they are also working, which most people never noticed that they are also messed up - there was only a discussion about the missing needles in the gauges, but there is much more which isn't functional in 1.16.0. I think the wiper is also out of order but I could not remember. Have to install 1.16.0 too, to see the differences. Will do so this evening)

Edit:

Maybe the threat warning indicator is also not functinal in 1.16.0, because this is logical. I have to test this all this evening or tomorrow. Sadly this week I have not so much time cause my RL really messed up at the moment.


Attached Files Havoc Pit - 1.15.2.jpg
Last edited by Viper1970; 09/12/17 09:35 AM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4379105 - 09/12/17 09:35 AM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
messyhead Offline
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messyhead  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
Originally Posted by Viper1970
Yes I have also seen this in the sourcecode on eech.codebasehq.
I was totally lost to find which version is which?
Was a trial and error thing, so I downloaded tons of branches to get maybe the right code for the different versions.

Sad that many things messed up, because there was so much suberb and impressing things made for this game.

Here is the screenshot of the Havoc pit in EECH Allmods 1.15.2 Fix5: (look at the warning lights and the torque indicator, they are also working, which most people never noticed that they are also messed up - there was only a discussion about the missing needles in the gauges, but there is much more which isn't functional in 1.16.0. I think the wiper is also out of order but I could not remember. Have to install 1.16.0 too, to see the differences. Will do so this evening)



Ah ok, great thanks. I'll park my cockpit work for now, and dig into getting those gauges working. It's actually been annoying me for a while, but I've never paid too much attention to it.

If this was caused by the D3D9 conversion, then I'll need to understand what that brings to the sim. I don't enough about the 3D rendering to know the benefits. Unfortunately, there's noone around to ask! I'll see if I can reverse the changes in 1.16, which I assume would have been switching off the instruments, and see what happens.

#4379177 - 09/12/17 03:15 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
The funny thing is that even with my poor knowledge I was able to complile 1.15.2 Fix5 with D3D9 but I wasn't able to test it the other way arround with 1.16.0 Fix1 to get it compiled with D3D7. There were tons of errors during the compilation.


CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4379183 - 09/12/17 03:30 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
messyhead Offline
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messyhead  Offline
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Posts: 1,883
Originally Posted by Viper1970
The funny thing is that even with my poor knowledge I was able to complile 1.15.2 Fix5 with D3D9 but I wasn't able to test it the other way arround with 1.16.0 Fix1 to get it compiled with D3D7. There were tons of errors during the compilation.


Do you mean you were just using the D3D9 libraries, or did you change the code as well?

#4379192 - 09/12/17 03:35 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
Ha, only the easy part, using D3D9 libraries. My knowledge is by far not good enough to change the code nope


CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4379198 - 09/12/17 03:49 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
messyhead Offline
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messyhead  Offline
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The 1.16 code will use functions that are in D3D9 but not in D3D7, so that's while you'll get errors when compiling 1.16 with the D3D7 libraries.

But it'll work the other way round, as the D3D9 will also contain D3D7 functions.

#4379204 - 09/12/17 03:55 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
Ah, I have thought about something of that kind, but I do not really understand it. I can see relationships in a code but I often don't understand the syntax. I think I will buy a book for C++, but it's not the easiest programming language to beginn with I think biggrin and EECH Allmods isn't the easiest project for sure.


CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4379243 - 09/12/17 06:58 PM Re: Future of EECH Allmods? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
O.k. tested 1.16.0 and it seems that the thread warning indicator is also not working in the MI-28. They fired a few missles against me and nothing was indicated. Not so in 1.15.2.

Think its the same texture problem as with the warning lights and the torque indicator. The wipper is fully working.


CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
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