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#4372712 - 08/04/17 12:51 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: Forward Observer]  
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Originally Posted by Forward Observer

DBond, you really should put Attila on your Steam wish list



Yeah, maybe I will. I like the gunpowder stuff as I said, but I would probably still enjoy that, especially if the non-combat gameplay is more compelling or polished in some way.


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#4372718 - 08/04/17 12:57 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond



Yeah, maybe I will. I like the gunpowder stuff as I said, but I would probably still enjoy that, especially if the non-combat gameplay is more compelling or polished in some way.


IMHO, getting to play as the Huns is very unique and fun experience so I think the game is worth getting just for that aspect alone but I also have some friends who passed on Attila because they just didn't care for the historical period. Some of it has to do with the fact that the Western Roman Empire was decaying and crumbling and had already converted to Christianity so it really bears little resemblance to the pop culture view we have of the Roman Empire (ie all powerful, pagan, etc.).


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#4372721 - 08/04/17 01:23 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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You hit it on the head. The era, or time period holds little interest for me. But that isn't necessarily enough to make me not want to play it.

What I find is that TW melee combat is just a matter of smashing your line in to the enemy's line and then hitting them from behind with cavalry. The tactical aspect is less compelling for me. Perhaps I am oversimplifying? But a more strategic and interesting strategic layer could more than make up for it.

Worth a punt anyway, maybe it will shoot right to the top of my list.

In fairness, even in Shogun 2 which I am enjoying now, it a bit of the same. However, especially in FotS, there is a high degree of assymetry. I am playing as an Imperial clan, and the modern versus traditional aspect of the battles makes it interesting. Perhaps though, if I were playing as a Shogunate I wouldn't feel the same? It's easy to like it when my guys have the guns right?

There is something about Napoleon which I feel makes it more tactical. Instead of having two lines squaring up, I find Nappy combat involves more maneuver. It's been a while since I've played it, so I can't recall exactly why it's so. But I recall thinking that positioning and maneuver were more critical in Napoleon. I think I'll need to give that another go next smile


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#4372724 - 08/04/17 01:37 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond


What I find is that TW melee combat is just a matter of smashing your line in to the enemy's line and then hitting them from behind with cavalry. The tactical aspect is less compelling for me. Perhaps I am oversimplifying? But a more strategic and interesting strategic layer could more than make up for it.




I see the point you are making and it's largely accurate and I think a big problem is that the AI in the 3D battles is pretty predictable. The AI will always put their cavalry on the flanks of their advancing melee line so you have to do the same to block their cavalry when they try to outflank you. I've found that it ultimately comes down to who has the better units and higher morale once the opposing melee lines clash. That is historical after all when you see what happened at the Battle of Pharsalus and later at Phillipi. The Caesarian legions were just so vastly superior in both morale and experience compared to the conscript legions and auxilliaries used by Pompey and then later Brutus and Cassius.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 08/04/17 02:47 PM.

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#4372737 - 08/04/17 02:37 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Right you are! The AI has always been, err, unimaginative in how they fight. More complex and unpredictable routines would go a long way toward making the 3D battles better.

So would delayed reinforcements. Wasn't this a thing in the past? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different game. If there were one thing that would make the AI much more challenging, it would be more intelligent use of cavalry. If the AI were smashing my line from behind it would be much more difficult. When I have sufficient forces do do so, I tend to leave a couple of capable infantry units in reserve, to potentially deal with this sort of thing, but mostly used instead to fill the line at critical points and junctures, to stiffen wavering units or outflank and trap a strong AI melee unit.

As it is the AI tends to move toward you until contact, often stripped of some or most of their cavalry and outpacing their artillery. On defense, the AI does a more creditable job, but that's to be expected, since maneuver is largely taken out of the equation. Again, I find this is another area where Napoleon seems to be better. I am installing Nappy tonight smile




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#4372878 - 08/05/17 01:23 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Finished up my Tosa (FotS) campaign last night. Victory for the Emperor smile

After that, I installed Napoleon, ran it once, then installed Darthmod. Started an Italian campaign to get accustomed to this version.

A few thoughts about Darthmod.... I don't like every Darthmod. These are mods that incorporate many changes, and I don't care for the Shogun version for example. But for Napoleon (and Empire too) it is fantastic. The sights and sounds of battle are the best in the series. The crack of the rifles (who fire more or less in unison, with a few stray reports on either side of the volley), the smoke, the commands. It had been several years since I played Nappy, but playing again served to justify it's place at the top of my Total War list.

Darthmod also gives you more control over unit sizes, and the best part about it... the Europe campaign, which is a grand campaign with every nation, major or minor, playable. 40-unit armies are also possible.

I was talking earlier about how I remembered Napoleon as more tactical. And having given another go, I think it's largely due to the way the 3D battle maps are done. There is just way more stuff than most TW games. Fences, towns, hills, draws, forests and so on. It's rare that there is an open space large enough to conduct a classic TW set piece battle. The maps essentially force you to maneuver, or at least that's how I feel.

I really enjoyed Fall of the Samurai. And I thought maybe it would be my favorite version, but I had to re-acquaint myself with Nappy before knowing for sure. And having done so, Napoleon is still the top, quite easily even. It's polished and focused. The cutscenes and story elements are well done -- not that we play TW for that stuff. But it's striking how it stands out.

But the battlefield is amazing. And as I've mentioned several times in this thread, i especially like the supply/replenishment system. Attrition is actually meaningful. A skirmish has a knock on effect, as that army will not be fully replenished in a turn or two like in most TW titles, until or unless you build up the supply building line. In this Italian campaign my army led by Napoleon has been stuck in a town for 6 turns now, as they recover their strength. I should have opted for a supply post instead of that market biggrin


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#4373152 - 08/07/17 02:25 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I had Napoleon installed as recently as a couple months ago and I played the long Europe campaign again as the French. I find the campaign to be too easy if I play any of the Coalition nations (Russia, Prussia, UK and Austria). Playing as the French is a great challenge since you are basically at war with almost everyone and your main ally Spain is basically worthless. They don't do crap.


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#4373159 - 08/07/17 03:20 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Did you play it modded? I can't recall how it is vanilla, but with the mod I am playing I'd say it's still a challenge playing as a nation other than France. I am playing as Prussia, of course, and while I am not exactly struggling to expand, the challenge arises mainly due to the fact that all cities are fully garrisoned. So even after defeating the enemy's field armies, you are still faced with a fully-stocked city to assault or siege. This essentially means that any attack on an enemy province requires a minimum of two, sometimes three, of your own armies.

I think I recall you mentioning that you don't mod your TW games, and fair enough, but I'd be very interested in your thoughts if you gave it a go with Darthmod. Would you be willing to try it? Vanilla game-state can be reverted to with a single click.

Having played Shogun 2 for the past few weeks, I just gotta mention again how much better I think the combat is in Napoleon. I tended to use auto-resolve a lot in S2, and frankly it seems to heavily favor the player. I mean, I would auto-resolve and get results like 2500 enemy casualties and zero of my own. Yep. The same slant doesn't happen in Nappy, and partly as a result I play out a much higher percentage of the battles. Well, that and it's just plain fun. There's no doubt I suffer far more casualties in Napoleon.

Everything in Napoleon seems on a higher scale. New armies can be recruited very quickly, money is plentiful, construction constant, movement distances far greater. That can be good or bad depending on your perspective. In Shogun, it could take 20 turns to create a full army and get it to the front lines. In Nappy it's 3 or 4 at most. A very different sort of game. I did prefer the agent play in S2 though. It's not a strong suit of Napoleon.


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#4373164 - 08/07/17 03:49 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I've only played Napoleon unmodded. I wouldn't mind using a graphics overhaul mod though since the default graphics in Napoleon look really outdated now.

Concerning agents the AI is very aggressive with the damn spies. The AI will definitely seek out your high ranking generals to assassinate them. As a result, I always have spies embedded in my armies for extra security. The gentlemen I use strictly to increase my research rate at my universities.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 08/07/17 04:02 PM.

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#4373526 - 08/09/17 03:23 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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OK, so that's a no then... biggrin

It's cool, just was curious about what you would think.

Your comments about playing as a nation other than France being easy are true in the general sense. I mean, in that Prussia game no one DoW'd me the entire game. I finished that run and started a new run as France. And honestly, I dare say it's been even easier. Well, that may not be exactly correct. I've expanded much more quickly. I'm on turn 41 and have reached the Russian frontier, reduced Austria to two provinces, eliminated Prussia. Prussia was dumb. They just kept declaring on me over and over. So now they are dead. The Paris region is key. That province alone generates a ton of income, has a school, factories, well, everything really. No other nation has it's equal. Plus ol' Nappy himself is quite the general.

I have yet to see a spy attempt assassination on me, the only agent actions I see are gentlemen stealing tech and some spy sabotage.

I think I will try one more TW game before I burn out on it. Maybe Attila? Or maybe I'll re-install M2/Kingdoms with Stainless Steel and see if the nostalgia still holds up. If it just weren't for the damn Pope...


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#4373646 - 08/10/17 11:53 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I think I will try one more TW game before I burn out on it. Maybe Attila?.



If you play Attila, I recommend you play as the Sassanids. It's a challenging campaign but not insanely difficult and you start off with a lot of territory but you also have some nearby enemies to contend with.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4373654 - 08/10/17 12:50 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I may yet do so. I put Attila on my wishlist for sale notification. Last night though, I installed M2/Kingdoms. I saw I hadn't played since 2008!

I played about 35 turns of a France campaign and really enjoyed it. Great memories of this one. The comments "I'll rip off your head and spit down your neck!" Come feel the might of the Reich, coward!", "My sultan wishes you dead!", the music and the sounds when you click on stuff or build, or recruit are just great.

I didn't install Stainless Steel yet. And after playing S2 and Napoleon, it's true that the combat isn't nearly so compelling. But the strategic part of the game might be my favorite of them all. You'll recall that refitting is done by 'retraining', where you need to return the depleted units to a town or city that can produce that unit, and pay a small amount to refit them. No field replenishment like in later games. I remember thinking when I played newer games that the replenishment systems were better. Well, I'd say it's just easier, while losing some of the strategic gameplay as a result.

And as I mentioned earlier, the trait system is awesome. So many, and with little control over the whole thing. Watching your best general become a drunk, corrupt hypochondriac would not be good smile Of course that isn't likely since he's in the field supposedly crushing enemy formations, but you get the point. Now, the governors on the other hand...

Merchants are useful, but I quickly remembered that I shouldn't even bother with them until I can be spawning merchants of high level. Otherwise they are bound to be 'acquired'.

If I could somehow meld the strategic gameplay of Medieval 2 with the combat of Napoleon I would be happy.


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#4373866 - 08/11/17 02:20 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Forgive me, I tend to post endlessly about whichever game I am in to at the moment.

So I finished the France campaign, it was a Short campaign and all I needed to do was eliminate England and hold 20 provinces, so not too hard.

While I played it though things started coming back to me, and I realized that I was missing much of what I liked about it last time I played. So I set about finding Stainless Steel. The last version I played was was 6.0. But I see that there were a couple of later versions, up to 6.4. So I found a good download link and got it. For those unfamiliar, here is some of what SS does.

http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Stainless_Steel

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?417435-Stainless-Steel-6-4-Released!

Many changes, and the more game-altering ones are optional, so you can flavor to taste. For example, the recruitment changes mean that there are limits to how many of a particular unit can be built over a certain amount of time. You might recruit a Norman Knight unit, then need to wait 4 turns before being able to build another. It's a great addition. Not only does it serve to curtail unit spam (and particularly so with the strongest units), but it also makes each unit that much more precious, leading to more caution as units are not easily replaceable within a turn or two like most versions of TW. But you can choose to play without this.

I started a medium/hard Early Campaign as Sicily. I've always loved playing in this region in strategy games, not only TW but in EU IV for example as well. The location is unique. The center of Europe with a strong naval affinity and surrounded by a mash of cultures and religions, I ignored the fact that my banners are almost exactly the same shade of grey as the Rebels. I'll get Norman Knights after all! Well, eventually...

And frankly it's as far east as I care to go. The further east you are, the more likely and quickly you'll need to deal with the Mongol Invasion, and that's usually not much fun. Actually there are three main mechanics of M2 that I've never really cared for. The Mongols, The Pope and Rebels. The Pope is constantly putting the brakes on your expansion against Christian neighbors and is frankly a big PIA. Rebels are popping up all over, all the time. They tend to be quite weak, but it's a constant game of whack-a-mole. Good training for the troops anyway I suppose.

Got a fairly decent start, moving to take the rebel-held castle at Ancona, to seal off southern Italy from the HRE. I allied with the Pope of course. Once done with Ancona I would pivot my army south to take the castle at Bari on the heel. But surprise! While sieging down Ancona, the damn Byzzies landed and took Bari! Son of a gun! On turn 8. That doesn't happen in vanilla smile

Hmmm, I have 4 provinces now and the Byzzies have 16. Not wise at this stage to take them on, so I bought it for 8000 ducats, trade rights and an alliance. Couldn't have a potential enemy based there. Then I sent the army to take Sardinia from the rebels and settled down for some peaceful building. I'll see about getting a chunk of Tunisia from any rebel-held provinces and turtle for a bit. It's a long game (300+ turns), no reason to rush.

Anyway, Stainless Steel is fantastic, really. A whole new map, many new factions, units, buildings, traits, ancilliaries, titles (some transferable), mechanics.

That said, while doing some reading last night I learned that there are some newer popular SS submods, notably SSHIP and Titanium. Has anyone here tried either of these? I'd be interested to hear some opinions.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?2055-Stainless-Steel-Historical-Improvement-Project-(SSHIP)

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?605321-WIP-Titanium


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#4373867 - 08/11/17 02:22 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Believe it or not, I have never played either Medieval or Medieval 2! The closest thing I've played is the Age of Charlemagne DLC for Attila.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 08/11/17 02:22 PM.

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#4373869 - 08/11/17 02:27 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Lol, I do not believe it. Well, I'd try to convince you to give it a go, especially with the mod I just talked about. If the era interests you at all, it's well worth a go.

Steam has M2 and Kingdoms for $25

http://store.steampowered.com/app/4700/Medieval_II_Total_War/

Last edited by DBond; 08/11/17 02:36 PM.

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#4377194 - 08/31/17 08:17 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Just thought I would update this thread to let you know that Sega/CA is having a weekend sale that started today on all the Total war games.

35% off on their current Warhammer title, but 75% on all the historical titles. That means the Emperor edition of Rome II is $15 and Attila is $11.24

All the expansions are discounted the same. If you get Rome II, I would recommend the Caesar in Gaul expansion. For Attila, the Age of Charlemagne, which may get as close to a Med 3 as we'll see any time soon.

Cheers.

Link

http://store.steampowered.com/sale/ca30/


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#4377219 - 08/31/17 10:37 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, I had it on the wishlist, got the email today and bought Attila with Charlemagne after I got home from work (15 bucks for both). It's funny, because just a few days ago I reached full TW burnout. Over the past couple of months I've played a hell of a lot of campaigns in Shogun 2, Medieval 2 and Napoleon, more than a dozen in all. But a few days ago I realized I was just tired of the 'chore' of managing a large empire. I was playing a Denmark run in Stainless Steel 6.4 for M2 and just realized I wasn't motivated any longer. So I moved on and began playing Mankind Divided which I bought back in February.

But of course today this sale came along and I have it now. My most recent TW game is Shogun 2, so I'm looking forward to giving Attila a go, daresay even a little excited to try it out.


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#4377261 - 09/01/17 03:55 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I'd recommend watching a few Attila play-through's on Youtube for which ever faction you start with. Rome II and especially Attila have so many new features added to the strategic side of the game which no previous TW release has ever had--so it's easy to be a little overwhelmed if one starts cold. There is a prologue tutorial that will help you get started, but watching a faction play-through will give you even more insight to how the new province system and army structure works. It will seem similar, but building up your settlements is a whole new mini-game of balancing the negative and positive aspects of all the structures to get the most income, a positive food supply, and sufficient sanitation to maintain positive public order and growth. Population growth opens up new building slots in the settlements.

Also different is the feature that you can no longer recruit troops or ships for an army or navy without first appointing a general or admiral. The number of armies or navies you can have is limited by your imperium level. This means you can't simply recruit a couple of basic units to reinforce the garrison of a settlement or to shuttle troops to an army in enemy territory. Your only option is to move an existing army into friendly territory or hire mercenaries. All recruitment is tied to a general or Admiral. However armies can now sail over water without a regular naval fleet.

You just move them to the waters edge and then onto the water. They will morph into a transport fleet. However they will not be able to combat regular naval ships due to the slow speed and weak hulls of the transports.


The game is also organized into chapter levels based on the literary theme of the seven seals or signs of the apocalypse from the book of Revelation in the Christian bible. Many scholars during this time thought that the birth and ascension of Attila to lead the Huns were part of this prophecy. With each chapter you will have goals to accomplish that will result in bonuses to your treasury, but the events will also come with climate change lowering the productivity of your farms and increasing the turns of the year that your troops will suffer attrition from being caught in snowbound territory. However, you do have a new feature of "army stance" that will allow you to fortify in the field to prevent attrition. There are also several other new and useful army stances that include ambush, raiding, or forced march.

Anyway, I could write volumes about the new features of the game, but watching a few play-through's might be the best way to get a handle on it.

I started with the Eastern Roman Empire, which is rated as a hard start, but not as bad as the Western Romans. I probably restarted that faction at least 2 or 3 times before I got a handle on how to deal with the overwhelming migrant Germanic armies attacking my unfortified settlements on every turn.

I'm currently playing a campaign as the Saxons which has been totally different than any of the other factions I have tried. I did follow their historical path somewhat by running the Western Romans off the British mainland, but took it a bit further and conquered what will become Scotland and Ireland. Now, I'm off to warmer climes through Gaul to take Italy with maybe a side trip through Iberia for their gold resources. If I can wade through the Huns, I plan on assaulting the great prize of Constantinople and keep heading for the sunny weather in the south.

If you do decide to try the ERE first, I have a few suggestions that should get you off to a pretty good start and help you eliminate your biggest threat (the Visagoths) at the beginning of the game.

Cheers





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#4377279 - 09/01/17 11:49 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I was able to win as the Eastern Roman Empire on "normal" difficulty without too many problems but Western Rome was a different story. I had to bump it down to "Easy" in order to win that campaign.

if anyone can win the Western Roman campaign on "Legendary" they deserve a fricking medal.


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#4377290 - 09/01/17 01:16 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Thanks for the tips. Honestly, the Atilla time frame isn't so interesting to me. I will play it later, but I started with AoC and the Kingdom of Mercia. You hit the nail on the head FO, because I was rather lost with the game being so radically different from the others I have played. There is plenty that I saw that I like. In particular, the siege battles. I'll admit I rarely played out siege battles in recent times, just auto resolve. But here it seems much more interesting and tactical, largely due to the way the settlements are done.

I also like the increased (or is it decreased wink ) zoom on the battle map. I'm not much for getting the camera close in to admire my troops (and why I never have cared much about the appearance of units nor cared to purchase any unit pack type DLC). So being able to get a wider view of the action is great.

The rest of the mechanics and features I'll save judgement on until I have more than three hours in. Here's a quick summary of my first go at the campaign....

I had a look at both the Atilla campaigns and the AoC campaign, the various factions, starting positions and unique abilities. Not all TW games have featured unique faction abilities, but it's one of the most interesting bits. Anything to add some assymetry and variety is welcome.

I decided on Mercia, as I reckoned starting on an island would be good, as it usually is. It tends to let you concentrate on local matters, to consolidate your region, gathering power and then enabling the player to turn his focus elsewhere from a secure base of operations. But really, I don't know yet how frequently and competently the AI will use naval landings. It's never been a strong suit of the AI in other TW games. But we will see, and there are Danes out there somewhere anyway right? Perhaps they will come screaming, axes in hand, over the gunwhales at any moment...

I skipped the prologue and jumped right in (Hard difficulty). But clearly I wasn't prepared for all of the 'changes' from what I am used to. I took my starting army, recruited a couple of mercs and marched on one of the Welsh provinces to the west that Mercia begins at war with. Managed to deal a stiff defeat to the enemy's field army. Started building a barracks and secured non-aggression pacts and trade deals with Northumbria, Wessex and Charlemagne. Well Charlemagne didn't bite on the trade deal, but the other two did.

Sent my priest to scout further to the southwest, moved my army back over the border to replenish a bit, installed a governor, passed an edict, kept a couple thousand quid in the bank and ended the turn. Next turn I moved to siege down the enemy, began building a farm in my northern province and had a look about for any Danes who might be preparing to do what Vikings do and ended the turn.

This is where it all went to sh!t. The other Welsh faction raided my northern province and my tributary Kent declared on me.

Already the people were war weary, 3 turns in! And I had yet to lose a battle.

So I will start over now that I know a little more. I guess I made a mistake by not having a navy to protect against the raid, and had no garrison/standing army near London to discourage Kent from their treachery.

More tips welcome!


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
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