The problem must be in the EXE of 1.15.3 / 1.15.4 itself, because nothing else wich has to do with the Havoc has been changed with this update. If this problem is found, I think we can also fix 1.16.1.

I have no way to examine this, because I have no source code and I'm no programmer.

If I had the ability to fix it I would do so. I've done what I can do with my limited knowledge.

I never understood why so many projects (mods) never get fixed. There is always a tendency to make far to much new content and options but this mostly will never finished or bugfixed. After a while the people who made it lost the interest or had not the time anymore to work on it and that's it.

All what remains is a sample of what could be, but it's often not really useable or has too many bugs. I think smaller changes which are always tested and fixed before any new content would be much better. This way, if nobody has the desire or the time to work on it, we still have something that can be used further.

I'm a simulation fan since the late 80's and have seen so many really promissing projects dying, but nowadays we only have those mods to keep the hobby we all share alive. The game industry has no interest anymore in building complex simulations, so the modding of old sims is all what remains. That's why I think that such great projects should not stay in a buggy condition.

The only problem is simply the free programmer time.A few years ago thealx spent more than a year on its patches and improvements.
Introduced hundreds of new amazing things.
for it we have to be grateful forever.Free time has ended, many projects
Was infinite such a life.same Little is missing to working avionics arneh
New people are gone. we have to hope that it will be better.

Yes, we have to hope. I will do my best to help, as long as I can do it with my restricted knowledge.

I have made a fix for 1.15.2 Fix5 ( something like 1.15.2 Fix6 ) which fixes the tail rotor collision with the FARP of some helos, mostly the MI-28. Had mentioned this here in the forum 2015. 1.15.2 Fix5 because it's the last version with a fully functional MI-28 cockpit.

I was told that the cockpit improvement upgrade 1.15.4 has this already fixed, so I looked in the cohokum\3ddata\objects\FARP folder of 1.15.2 Fix 5 and replaced those file with the same of 1.15.4. Attention, do not copy the whole folder of 1.15.4, because it has many new files in which aren't there in 1.15.2 Fix 5!
Replace only the existing once!

Now you have a completely working copy of 1.15.2 Fix 5 in which the MI-28 Havoc can be flown with a fully operational cockpit. Sadly the cockpit improvement version 1.15.4 has already the cockpit bug of the Havoc. That's the only drawback of this version, because on the other side it already has the Blackhawk cockpit included.

So at the moment I will stay with 1.15.2 Fix5 and my own bugfix to fly the russian helos and use 1.15.4 to fly the US helos.

EDIT: O.k forget it. I have at least 10 times tested it before I postet this solution. Now I wanted to look after other bugs I can fix, startet 1.15.2 Fix6 (my fix) again with the Europe Map, and think what happend - tail rotor collided with the boundary, because the helicopter is again rotatet 90 degrees wrong at the helipad! Don't know why it worked before. I think the placing of the helo is only luck.

If you are experiencing problem with FARP collisions in any version, just remove cohokum\3ddata\objects\FARP\FARP_MAT.EES and FARP_MAT_GREY.EES files. no need to replace anything.

Thanks thealx,

will try this. Have already tried the solution you give me in 2015 again, but this crashes the game:



I hope that there will be a version in future with the tail rotor problem, the MI-28 cockpit fixed and already has the Blackhawk in. Something like a final realease 1.16.2 .

By the way, is there a solution in 1.16.1 with messyheads Blackhawk conversion to fix that pilot stick before the cockpit window bug?

Another question. Is there any way to use another program for editing 3D than Lightwave? This one is really expensive and I only want to play a little with 3D to learn it a bit.

What's about blender?

P.S: Thanks Thealx, your solution does work! But now the FARP looks a little sparse, so I had the idea to make the boundaries arround the helipad a little bit larger. That way, if the helo is in the wrong direction, it's large enough to always have a space between the tail rotor and the boundary.

Don't know if I can do it with my limited knowledge (have edited some models for the FS9 back those days with gmax, nothing great only a few adaptations) but I want to try it.

All existing converters support Lightwave only, so it's only one that can work with EECH objects without additional manipulations. To load object via LW it has to be converted to LWO/LWS, then - after your edits, converted back to EEO/EES, special utilities available for that.
It has one month trial as I know, it will be enough to play for a while.

btw, as an option collision object of the barrier should be made not like a box, but a fence (outside). so it still will work as defense, but not cause problem with tail rotor collision.

O.k. will look if I can do something, but I also have not so much time the next weeks, cause real life catches me also.

The problem is, that it will take much longer for me to do such fixes, if I'm even able to do so with my knowledge, than anyone who was involved in the original modding team. So one month couldn't be enough time.

I could also only fix the 3D thing if even anything. That makes only 1.15.2 Fix5 running.

If I really could do something, I would like to do and spent a lot of time on it, I would focus on version 1.15.4, cause there is the Blackhawk and the clickable cockpits already in, only the MI-28 instruments are missing. In my opinion it's the best version we have at the moment.

O.k. 1.16.1 has multiplayer and graphics updates, but no Blackhawk and the MI-28 isn't also useable. As far as I have read here at the forum there aren't much multiplayer sessions at the moment. So it's only the DirectX upgrade which makes 1.16.1 a step above at the end. Don't missunderstood, I would really like to see a 1.16.2 but I don't believe in that.

Have already tried to see what causes the problem with the missing pit in the MI-28, but as I said before the problem must be the cohokum.exe itself. I have compared the files of 1.15.2 Fix5 and 1.15.3/4, which are the first versions making the cockpit error and there is nothing changed to the aphavoc folder or anything additional new related to the MI-28. The only thing in my conclusion, which could create this problem must be the cohokum.exe itself.

Maybe there was some advice to the files needed for the Havoc cockpit lost in this exe. As you mentioned 1.15.3/4 fork and 1.16.0 developed in parallel and maybe shared some code, so this error is in both versions of the game.

I have tried to look with a hexeditor in those exe files (cause I have done so with some older sims I have and was sometimes able to fix things) , to see any advices to the aphavoc folder, but there are too many things I do not understand. There seems to be imaginary folder links to things that stored in memory when the game is running or something else I really did not understand.

Is anyone still working on 1.16.1 to fix or even upgrade it? Would there be a real chance to see a 1.16.2? If yes, than it makes no sense for me to try to make a fixed version of 1.15.4, but if the mod is dying I want to have a version which is useable and has the most content in. If it's dying multiplayer makes anyway no sense then.

What Fix you want make in lightwave? All fixes need work in code,not lw.

Don't know what really makes the most sense. From what I've seen and I hadn't the time to flew all the missions, so maybe there are other bugs too, I think it's 1.15.4 which makes the most sense to be fixed, because of the already fixed tail rotor bug and the Blackhawk cockpit which is also useable.

If the clickable cockpits are really complete functional, I don't know. I hadn't the time to fly the last years, cause of my work. Now as things get more calm in my life, I spent a lot of time in my dream of the past twenty years, my home cockpit. I always wanted to use the pit with helicopters too, that's why I tried EECH Allmods a bit the last time, to see what systems are realizeable in my homepit.

At this testing I realized that many things, which I was able to see the first 10 minutes I tried it out are buggy. I understand that this is a mod and the people who made it have also a real life, but what I couldn't understand is that they have spent so many hours, weeks, month, years to make it and now leave it in this state.

What I think has to be done, is to fix the bugs that are apparently in the first ten minutes you play the game, like the not working pit of the M-28 or the tail rotor collision. There maybe some more bugs in missions or something else, but here you can fly other missions. What is a helicopter good for in a simulation if I can not use any instrument in it's cockpit, or couldn't even takeoff at all because of the tail rotor damage?

I think this bugs could be fixed in a not so much time costly work and I also think that EECH allmods really deserves it, so it has an acceptable state for retirement.

As things stay at the moment, you not even could use many of the different helos in the game.

Most bugs from 115 are fixed in 116.you find one bug in 116 not working gauges,and you want back to 115 and lost hundreds new things and fixes. Imo no make sense,but is your choice

The not working gauges is a huge big bug for me cause I like the MI-28 as much as I like the Apache. Never was a fan of the Hokum with it's tandem rotor system.

I don't know any other sim you could fly the MI-28 in combat. In FSX only without combat and the only other sim which ever had it was Gunship!, which also was never really finished.

In the case of Gunship they made a promissing simulation to an acrcade shooter, to conform the new action shooter kiddies generation. After this Microprose never brought any new sim to the market and then got bankrupt.

I don't understand what the big problem is to fix those gauges. It's already known since two and a half years and as I said, the problem must be in the exe of 1.15.4 or also of 1.16.1. Nothing related to the Mi-28 gauges respectively to the needed Aphavoc folder was changed. You could see it if you open the setup archive with the use of 7zip. So it can only be a missing advice or something else in the cohokum.exe. By the way it effects also the Mi-24 Hind cause it does use some instruments of the Havoc.

Again - no time(i think)


I also love mi28 and made little rework
, but without code is useless at this moment.

Wow this looks really amazing!!!

The Mi-28 was always one of my favorite helos since I saw it the first time. Probably I like it more than the Apache. The only one that comes above is the good old AH-1F Cobra with the flat canopy, but this version isn't implemented in the game.

Hope that someone who has the code could fix the gauges and lights problem, and you can get the code that we will see this amazing cockpit you made in the game somewhere in future!

I have at least tried to find it problem, but as said before I think it must be the exe file itself. I'm no coder and I also have not the code, but even if I had the source code it wouldn't help much cause my knowledge of programming is only a very little bit in VB

Great helicopter.
Fortunately on yt you can find many new cam footage.A few years ago it was impossible.

O.k. have compared the cohokum.exe of the different versions of the game with a hex editor and found out that this part is missing in all versions above 1.15.2 Fix5, which was the last the version with the working MI-28 gauges.

The missing part in those files (1.15.3 to 1.16.1) is the part between the quotes:

.... Operational State %s.task.ALL.NONE.%d .-%d- %s (%d) %s. <---..{.®Gáz„?:Œ0âŽy5>......Y@\COHOKUM\GRAPHICS\COCKPITS\. \COMMON\MAPS\MAP1\GRAPHICS\.\COMMON\MAPS\MAP2\GRAPHICS\.\COMMON\M ....

This looks like it has to do with a link to the original old EEAH cockpit files of the havoc and also the apache. Maybe this is the problem, but I'm no programmer.

I know the M-28 cockpit isn't perfect, even with the working gauges, because it's the only helo which still has no gunner position (except the KA-50 which is a single seater), but a still not very accurate pit with working gauges and warning lights is much better than nothing.

If there will be an accurate cockpit in the future ( e.g. the one blackshark has made ) with a working gunner, i think it's not required anymore to link to this old folders from EEAH.
Maybe that's the reason why this link isn't existing anymore in the new versions. Probably it was planed to make a complete new realistic Mi-28 cockpit, but this was never finished or implemented.

That looks cool. Did you do the cockpit yourself? Could you send me the files? I'd like to do this as my next project, as I always wished the MI28 had a 3d cockpit.

yes thats my work. I Pm you, I have to change two three textures.

Viper1970, I have update on your issue.

Havoc cockpit instruments was disabled in sake of D3D9 conversion, I can guess because it using outdated functions to draw gauges and lamps. I am not capable to alter rendering functions so can't propose any easy fix. Only solutions I see - totally remake instruments for the old cockpit adding scripts in the code and objects in the cockpit scene, or do the same for new cockpit scene.

Hello thealx,

thanks for your reply. I think if blackshark and messyhead are working on a new cockpit, it doesn't make sense to fix it. I only had the fear that EECH Allmods maybe dying and if this had been the case I thought that the biggest errors had to be fixed before retirement.

But now things look a bit more promising. I hope that the modding at Allmods goes on, cause it's the best and only helicopter combat sim we have. I also believe, that even if someone else will make a new one, we will never see as much different major combat helos in it, as EECH Allmods has.

I bet, if it will even happen, it will be only an Apache, but never again a Kiowa, Comanche, Blackhawk or a Havoc, but I have still not heared of any plan from any developer to make a new realistic combat helo sim.

The only chance to see anything new at the moment is DCS, but this lacks the dynamic campaign and every module needs about seven years to hit the shelves. The most modules aren't very interesting and in case of their extremly realism and the required information to do so, it's relatively unlikely to see any interesting combat helicopter module in the near future. How long had it taken to make the F/A-18C module and in my opinion we will not see it even this year.

I hope EECH Allmods can be the counterpart to falcon bms for us rotorheads. It's definitely worth it!!!

P.S: In my opinion there are four combat flying simulations that should never die and are really worth to still work on them. It's EECH Allmods, Falcon BMS, Strike Fighters Project 2 and IL-2. This way we combat flight simulation lovers can still go on with our hobby. The developers have not much interest in this genre (if even, at most in WWII combat) cause it's to complex for the new cell phone or ipad generation, but if those simulations stay alive, you could really fly everthing you ever want in a realistic way.