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#4371353 - 07/28/17 01:47 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: cichlidfan]  
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Originally Posted by HomeFries
The point is that some people on this forum (and yes, based on your reply you can include yourself in this list) choose to attack the poster rather than debating the content of the post. This includes attempts to discredit a person based on perceived or actual standing with Eagle Dynamics, e.g. labeling a person's opinion as suspect because the person was once a beta tester or moderator. To say that a person must agree with ED because they are a tester/moderator is like saying that I agreed with the President when I was in the military. In reality (and in fact, more often than not) I disagreed with the President, but I maintained a required level of decorum by not discussing politics in front of my troops or commenting on my opinions in public.

But Nate is no longer connected with ED (as per Nate's admission in one of these threads) so "maintaining a level of decorum" is no longer necessary.....

Originally Posted by HomeFries
But this is beside the point. You choose to attack a person (Nate in this case) instead of arguing against his points. This only causes people to stop posting, and others who don't want to sift through 10 pages of diatribes to find useful information to look at other forums. Say what you want about ED's moderating (and I have posted some significant criticism of it in the past), but at least I can usually find what I'm looking for both in breadth of content as well as ease of finding.

Which point was Nate trying to make, exactly? Where? The linking of a Monty Python video? Isn't that a sniping attack as well, which is exactly what you accuse Winfield of?



Originally Posted by cichlidfan
No, they are called rocks or gravel. The colored ones are coated with epoxy and others are made of quartz which, in either case, means that they will not alter the pH or Hardness of your water. There are limestone based gravels but they are only suitable for certain species of fish which can tolerate extremely hard and alkaline water.

You will get better mineral content from most tap water with an additive to remove chlorine and ammonia.

LOL!! You actually replied to that! Funny how you'd reply to silly comments about rocks but refuse to back up your statements regarding ED/DCS/simulations....

Also, I was making a joke... something to do with Breaking Bad and Hank.... here's a vid:

link


- Ice
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4371354 - 07/28/17 01:49 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: KeyCat]  
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Originally Posted by KeyCat
Does the DCS F/A-18C run on water or how is this related??? Cooling fluid? pilot

Hehehehe... just having a bit of off-topic fun, KeyCat... wink


- Ice
#4371359 - 07/28/17 03:03 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by HomeFries
The point is that some people on this forum (and yes, based on your reply you can include yourself in this list) choose to attack the poster rather than debating the content of the post. This includes attempts to discredit a person based on perceived or actual standing with Eagle Dynamics, e.g. labeling a person's opinion as suspect because the person was once a beta tester or moderator. To say that a person must agree with ED because they are a tester/moderator is like saying that I agreed with the President when I was in the military. In reality (and in fact, more often than not) I disagreed with the President, but I maintained a required level of decorum by not discussing politics in front of my troops or commenting on my opinions in public.

But Nate is no longer connected with ED (as per Nate's admission in one of these threads) so "maintaining a level of decorum" is no longer necessary.....

Originally Posted by HomeFries
But this is beside the point. You choose to attack a person (Nate in this case) instead of arguing against his points. This only causes people to stop posting, and others who don't want to sift through 10 pages of diatribes to find useful information to look at other forums. Say what you want about ED's moderating (and I have posted some significant criticism of it in the past), but at least I can usually find what I'm looking for both in breadth of content as well as ease of finding.

Which point was Nate trying to make, exactly? Where? The linking of a Monty Python video? Isn't that a sniping attack as well, which is exactly what you accuse Winfield of?

I said is that counter-arguments should attack the argument, not the poster. I have also seen Skatezilla's reputation assaulted multiple times on this forum for being an ED moderator, and it was Nate's affiliation with ED (past, present or otherwise) that was used to discredit the post by discrediting the poster. If Nate's video was weak argument, then countering that argument shouldn't be difficult.

Truth is, though, you can't swing a dead cat on this forum without hitting a snarky comment or complaint about ED. I'm all for "truth to power", and ED is not perfect (they're not even in the same zipcode), but it's gotten to the point where all of the negativity is toxic and PWEC is much more civil than the DCS forum here.

Last edited by HomeFries; 07/28/17 03:05 AM.

-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#4371374 - 07/28/17 04:48 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: HomeFries]  
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Originally Posted by HomeFries
Truth is, though, you can't swing a dead cat on this forum without hitting a snarky comment or complaint about ED. I'm all for "truth to power", and ED is not perfect (they're not even in the same zipcode), but it's gotten to the point where all of the negativity is toxic and PWEC is much more civil than the DCS forum here.

Thanks HF, I agree with all of that! I totally agree with constructive discourse with any of ED products and the forum problems, but when it comes to a slamfest for every post, that's becoming a little ridiculous. Let's please bring it back on to the fact that it is the "ED Forum" section and try to please keep in that way, OK. That's kind of been my point from the get go.

#4371376 - 07/28/17 05:27 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: HomeFries]  
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Originally Posted by HomeFries

Truth is, though, you can't swing a dead cat on this forum without hitting a snarky comment or complaint about ED. I'm all for "truth to power", and ED is not perfect (they're not even in the same zipcode), but it's gotten to the point where all of the negativity is toxic and PWEC is much more civil than the DCS forum here.


Agreed.

#4371388 - 07/28/17 09:20 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: HomeFries]  
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Originally Posted by HomeFries


Truth is, though, you can't swing a dead cat on this forum without hitting a snarky comment or complaint about ED. I'm all for "truth to power", and ED is not perfect (they're not even in the same zipcode), but it's gotten to the point where all of the negativity is toxic and PWEC is much more civil than the DCS forum here.


Truth.

It's farcical, a cancer that some select posters are blatantly guilty of that has made me lose any respect I once had for this particular section of SimHQ.

Pity.


Airframe #36
159th Guards Aviation Regiment
"Airspeed, Altitude, or Brains; you always need at least two."
#4371391 - 07/28/17 09:45 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: HomeFries]  
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Originally Posted by HomeFries
I said is that counter-arguments should attack the argument, not the poster.

Preaching to the choir here, HomeFries. You'll see an appeal for mods to take action against me in this very thread... but nothing against the points I am making. If you've been here long enough, you'll have seen it happen many times in the past by many other posters as well. Do not think this is a one-sided thing; it isn't.

Originally Posted by HomeFries
I have also seen Skatezilla's reputation assaulted multiple times

Indeed, and that does make me sad. I have lots of respect for Skate and I've "known" him here on SimHQ before he's been an ED moderator....

Originally Posted by HomeFries
If Nate's video was weak argument, then countering that argument shouldn't be difficult.

Nate had **NO** argument. The discussion was about brevity. What did Monty Python have to do with it?

Let me give you a little taste of Nate's way of "arguments" or participating in discussion
Originally Posted by Nate
Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by jens198
I admire your passion for finding something negative in everything that ED says or does Ice ...

Thank you! I do work hard at this biggrin

Yes you do biggrin

Originally Posted by Nate
Careful now, or it'll be death by a thousand quotes fior you! biggrin



Originally Posted by HomeFries
Truth is, though, you can't swing a dead cat on this forum without hitting a snarky comment or complaint about ED. I'm all for "truth to power", and ED is not perfect (they're not even in the same zipcode), but it's gotten to the point where all of the negativity is toxic and PWEC is much more civil than the DCS forum here.

While I agree with that, I don't think the negativity is "toxic." We need the negativity to balance out all the back-slapping and Kool-Aid drinking going on in the "more reputable" forums.


- Ice
#4371392 - 07/28/17 09:54 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: *Striker*]  
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Originally Posted by *Striker*
Originally Posted by - Ice
Again, see Frederf's excellent burn response above.

Yikes, I feel really hurt.Thanks for reminding me of what it's like to be in kindergarten again, LOL

Originally Posted by *Striker*
Thanks HF, I agree with all of that! I totally agree with constructive discourse with any of ED products and the forum problems, but when it comes to a slamfest for every post, that's becoming a little ridiculous. Let's please bring it back on to the fact that it is the "ED Forum" section and try to please keep in that way, OK. That's kind of been my point from the get go.

Hahahahahahahaha!! OMG, this is so rich!!! Talk about hypocrisy!
Okay, okay, I will commend you for at least trying to stand up and support your points, but then you disappear and come back with a "kindergarten" statement followed by "constructive discourse"? Hahahahahahha!!!!

As for "slamfest," let me just remind you of this gem:
Originally Posted by *Striker*
And thank goodness for that because if you're any example of what they have to offer then we would all be better off without you being here.


HomeFries, this, right here, is why some of us have little patience when arguing with certain individuals. They aren't mature enough to admit that they're wrong (kindergarten indeed!!), they just disappear into the ether and seem to forget that they were defending a position.... and then come back as if they have the high ground and start a whole new complaint about a whole new topic forgetting the fact that the forum records everything they say "from the get go."


- Ice
#4371393 - 07/28/17 09:54 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: 159th_Viper]  
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Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
Truth.

It's farcical, a cancer that some select posters are blatantly guilty of that has made me lose any respect I once had for this particular section of SimHQ.

Pity.

Evidence?

Please let's not be toddlers here and be calling the waaaaaaahmbulance. Let's talk about facts and let's see things in a bigger picture... a picture that spans back at least 10 years for most people, or all the way back to LOMAC or Flanker 2.0 for others. Let's not celebrate "distraction tactics" (Su-33 FM, really?) nor live in the future (DCS has so much potential!) and we can have a good discussion.


- Ice
#4371394 - 07/28/17 10:01 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice

Evidence?


Figure it out yourself. My youngest is 14. I have unfortunately lost the art of spoonfeeding a helluva long time ago.


Airframe #36
159th Guards Aviation Regiment
"Airspeed, Altitude, or Brains; you always need at least two."
#4371396 - 07/28/17 10:05 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
Originally Posted by HomeFries

Truth is, though, you can't swing a dead cat on this forum without hitting a snarky comment or complaint about ED. I'm all for "truth to power", and ED is not perfect (they're not even in the same zipcode), but it's gotten to the point where all of the negativity is toxic and PWEC is much more civil than the DCS forum here.


Agreed.

I'm sad to say that I do agree with you here Flogger23m. Unfortunately, I hope you realize that "it takes two to tango" and shots are fired from both sides.

I do hope I'm seeing the light with your M2000 thread though. We may be on different sides with regards to ED's policy and business decisions, we may be on different sides when talking about the quality or accuracy or value-for-money about certain modules, but at least we can have a good discussion when talking about "how-to" in certain aircraft and comparing it to other aircraft. I hope we get more of such threads once the F-18 is released.

"The F/A-18 is awesome, the best module ED has ever made!!"
"How did this pile of garbage pass internal testing? Has ED not yet learned it's lesson"

I can see the vitriol coming from both sides.

"God dammit! How do I land this thing on that postage stamp? I'm tearing my hair out! This aircraft is stupid!"
I look forward to these types of threads where we learn from and share experiences in an aircraft's operation.


- Ice
#4371397 - 07/28/17 10:10 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: 159th_Viper]  
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Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
Originally Posted by - Ice

Evidence?

Figure it out yourself. My youngest is 14. I have unfortunately lost the art of spoonfeeding a helluva long time ago.

Ah great! Make a claim, don't cite evidence, just complain, complain, complain. You were talking about respect? Yeah, that's one way to lose respect. Also, spoonfeeding and backing up your arguments are two entirely different things. You're making a claim, YOU find your evidence.

It's hilarious how you talk about farcical, "a cancer," and respect but come back with that type of reply.


- Ice
#4371404 - 07/28/17 11:47 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: 159th_Viper]  
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Originally Posted by 159th_Viper


Originally Posted by HomeFries


Truth is, though, you can't swing a dead cat on this forum without hitting a snarky comment or complaint about ED. I'm all for "truth to power", and ED is not perfect (they're not even in the same zipcode), but it's gotten to the point where all of the negativity is toxic and PWEC is much more civil than the DCS forum here.


Truth.

It's farcical, a cancer that some select posters are blatantly guilty of that has made me lose any respect I once had for this particular section of SimHQ.

Pity.


The irony is strong with this one

If ED forums had for example a more balanced perspective on how to deal with its paying customers
without resorting to banning them at a whim if they say something negative (read facts about issues)

Come to think of it ..... how many did you ban when you "moderated" that place ?

Last edited by leaf_on_the_wind; 07/28/17 02:22 PM.


Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4371424 - 07/28/17 01:40 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind


Come to think of it ..... how many did you ban when you "moderated" that place ?


How exactly is this relevant?


Airframe #36
159th Guards Aviation Regiment
"Airspeed, Altitude, or Brains; you always need at least two."
#4371429 - 07/28/17 01:57 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: *Striker*]  
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Jeez , I will have to get the crayons out

Cause:
people complain on ED forums about bugs design decisions etc

Effect:
They get banned by Ze "moderators" on ED forums and come to and open and honest place to discuss things (eg SimHQ)


Then some people complain about people complaining about ED on these forums



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4371437 - 07/28/17 02:28 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: *Striker*]  
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Jeez, Leaf, any opportunity to derail a thread..... can we get back to fish tanks please?

Nate

#4371438 - 07/28/17 02:32 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind

Jeez , I will have to get the crayons out

Cause:
people complain on ED forums about bugs design decisions etc

Effect:
They get banned by Ze "moderators" on ED forums and come to and open and honest place to discuss things (eg SimHQ)


Then some people complain about people complaining about ED on these forums



All that from me agreeing with an opinion proffered on SimHQ by another member of SimHQ that certain SimHQ posters are toxic.

Ok then.

Lol


Airframe #36
159th Guards Aviation Regiment
"Airspeed, Altitude, or Brains; you always need at least two."
#4371444 - 07/28/17 03:05 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: Nate]  
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Aw man, leaf... missed opportunity there! You should've replied with....

Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
Figure it out yourself. My youngest is 14. I have unfortunately lost the art of spoonfeeding a helluva long time ago.

biggrin biggrin biggrin


Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
All that from me agreeing with an opinion proffered on SimHQ by another member of SimHQ that certain SimHQ posters are toxic.

And some people just come here to snipe, complain, and make accusations without evidence. Interesting how your last post before today was on April 2015 and it was on the Elite Dangerous forums.... the last post on DCS was September 2014. Hmmm.... [edited]


Originally Posted by Nate
Jeez, Leaf, any opportunity to derail a thread..... can we get back to fish tanks please?

LOL @ Mr. Derail.... Pot calling the kettle black as always ...

Your line I edited is too close to a personal attack...

Last edited by Force10; 07/28/17 07:24 PM. Reason: insult

- Ice
#4371453 - 07/28/17 04:04 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: *Striker*]  
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That's enough of the sniping gents.
I would like to keep this thread open since it started out being about the F/A-18c and will be relevant.

Stay on topic or this thread will get locked.

Up to you folks.


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#4371485 - 07/28/17 06:57 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C To Be Released Soon [Re: *Striker*]  
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Ice...I removed your post. I going to assume you were creating it before seeing my warning above.

Last edited by Force10; 07/28/17 06:57 PM.

Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard
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16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory
EVGA GTX 970 Superclocked 4gb Video Card
Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive)
Samsung 840 1TB SSD
Onboard Realtek sound
______________________________________________________

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