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#4395063 - 12/15/17 11:13 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Appears the developers were smart enough to not waste their time on a PTO that “we” now admit “we” will not miss all that much.

#4395088 - 12/16/17 02:33 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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I don't think they've decided to "not waste their time" on it. I've never once heard those words. And it's something Jason has wanted to do for years. I remember years ago, while he was still involved in ROF, there were some teaser screenshots showing that they had some ideas about it way back then. It started a lot of wild speculation about it, much like what was going on here.
So, he'll do it if he can. It seems to be something that he's really interested in. Meanwhile...I can't wait to see that P-47!

Last edited by Pooch; 12/16/17 02:34 AM.

"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
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#4395161 - 12/16/17 06:48 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Pooch]  
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So where is PTO in their business plan? Anyone can fantasize about developing a PTO flight sim. To make ends meet though, the developer has to find a large enough customer base to justify the development costs. A vocal few who push for it might later decide they were not that much “into” a PTO after all. My guess would be that battles of Kursk and Berlin would be strong contenders for any available development funds. After those think about a special SWOTL edition.

#4395188 - 12/16/17 09:07 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Yes, Better off. It'll just turn into p**^*ing match like it has in the DCS forum. Yikes. How do people get this worked up about flight sims? I'd love a sim where I could shoot at some Japanese airplanes. But I'm not gonna get all upset over this. I even sugested that we do a "fake" Pacific campaign in another post. Why not? Let's not get too serious about all of this.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4395196 - 12/16/17 09:56 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
I'd love a sim where I could shoot at some Japanese airplanes.


I'd love a sim where I could shoot at some enemy planes, flying in Japanese airplanes. b:)

#4395216 - 12/17/17 01:24 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Okay, you son of Nippon. I hope we get our chance. I'll meet you over Port Moresby!


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4395288 - 12/17/17 01:25 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Carefree]  
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Originally Posted by Carefree
Damn, am really sad this has been postponed, lets be honest guys, postponed means cancelled, if its going to happen its not gonna happen for years, possibly a decade or so now, might not even be alive then.

Jason is in charge, and it seems its not gonna happen, so there we go.

For what its worth I think it could have worked, anyone remember 1942 Pacific Air War and the Gold version of it, my goodness that was one incredible sim in its day and never wanted for anything in its day, it took place over the Pacific and had incredible carrier action and a diverse plane set, carrier take offs, carrier landings, rough seas, torpedo attacks, bomb runs and dogfights, could fly for American or Japanese, it could be played as a separate strategic war game too.

The current mind set of Jason's Il2 ETC is not really that diverse, would prefer things went back to ROF2 than yet a 4th episode of more of the same.

Would loved to have seen a modern pacific WW2 sim in my lifetime, guess its not gonna happen.

Hell, even PAW1942 Gold updated would have been awesome.








1942 PAW, man that was one hell of a combat flight sim! The best (by far) WWII Pacific sim ever made! The sad part is that it is so old since it was made for MS-DOS and nothing modern remotely as good ever came up!

Why these modern game/sim developers can't build such a similar sim?? Jezz with all the modern development tools available it should be easier to develop any game, including combat flight simulations.

I guess this is just one more evidence that shows how messed up the world is today...

Anyway my point is, great people when developing/building great things usually look at the past for inspiration - current sim developers just do the opposite rolleyes

#4395322 - 12/17/17 04:59 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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First of all, let's not get all dramatic, here. The fact that no one is building a Pacific War flight sim is not evidence that the world is messed up. There are a whole lot more things going on that is evidence of that. But I won't take this conversation into the PWEC category.
"When people develope great things they look to the past for inspiration." Well....maybe that's what they did. The past may very well show that the Pacific has a history of not selling well. And, after all, this is a buisiness. It's how these people pay their mortgages and feed their families. They can't say, "Hey, we aren't going to make any money doing this, but there are a couple of guys out there who want it...so what the hell. Let's do it!"
Part of the issue may be that the protagonists are, pretty much, mostly the U.S. and Japan. The European market is a big one for flight sims, I would think. Most there aren't all that interested in what went on, on the other sideof the world.
All that being said, I still think they might wind up giving it a try. I really do want to see it done,but I'm not going to get all upset over it.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4395342 - 12/17/17 06:55 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Not sure why recent comments are being characterized as “dramatic”. From beginning of this thread back in July some posts have cautioned that the PTO theater floated early on was most likely a chimera. Whether the PTO has ever been part of the business plan is unknown. How well accurately modeled U.S. aircraft in such a sim would perform against Japanese fighters is questionable. When actually tested against Japanese fighters by U.S. Intel services some premier U.S. fighters were not all that “Uber”. How many buyers would want to fly a Betty? How many Japanese aircraft other than few iconic fighters could be profitable as dlc? I have no idea how poplular a PTO offering would be in Japan or in Germany or in Russia but I would certainly review all available data that could possibly shed light on potential sales before committing. What would it cost to research and accurately model all manner of Japanese hardware? I would have to be prepared to respond on all those issues before even thinking about making a pitch to any potential financial backers for such a project. Looking back in this thread I think you will see that there was substantial energy spent discussing what should be done in a PTO offering and less time given to considering whether such a theater shift would be rational for a developer to undertake.

#4395373 - 12/18/17 12:38 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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"Not sure why recent comments are being characterized as “dramatic”."

I very clearly made this comment due to the fact that ricnunes stated that not getting a PTO sim done was "evidence that shows how messed up the world is today..."


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4395965 - 12/21/17 12:53 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
First of all, let's not get all dramatic, here. The fact that no one is building a Pacific War flight sim is not evidence that the world is messed up. There are a whole lot more things going on that is evidence of that. But I won't take this conversation into the PWEC category.
"When people develope great things they look to the past for inspiration." Well....maybe that's what they did. The past may very well show that the Pacific has a history of not selling well. And, after all, this is a buisiness. It's how these people pay their mortgages and feed their families. They can't say, "Hey, we aren't going to make any money doing this, but there are a couple of guys out there who want it...so what the hell. Let's do it!"
Part of the issue may be that the protagonists are, pretty much, mostly the U.S. and Japan. The European market is a big one for flight sims, I would think. Most there aren't all that interested in what went on, on the other sideof the world.
All that being said, I still think they might wind up giving it a try. I really do want to see it done,but I'm not going to get all upset over it.


I prepared in my mind something to counter-argue what you posted but then I remembered that I've been reading that kind of rhetoric that you posted (developers don't make certain scenarios or don't implement certain features because they would go bankrupt, bla bla bla...) for something more than at least a decade and a half (likely even more) and I've been retorting that same rhetoric ever since and as such I'm not in the mood to repeat myself what I've been saying for roughly this same amount of time.

Let just says that if you believe that a combat flight sim developer would be bankrupt if it developed 1942 Pacific Air War 2 (or whatever it would be called) but if that same developer instead developed IL2 Battle of Kuban or Battle of <whatever_battle_in_Eastern_Front_that_nobody_really_cares_except_the_Russians> would generate revenue/profit that you could as well believe in Santa Claus or in flying pigs, like the fellow below:
whenpigsfly

#4396002 - 12/21/17 12:18 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: ricnunes]  
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Originally Posted by ricnunes
[
(developers don't make certain scenarios or don't implement certain features because they would go bankrupt, bla bla bla...)


To not say that same features initially denied - eg. DX above 9, 64 bits, VR... was using the same arguments. smile

#4396013 - 12/21/17 01:50 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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This thread persists because no one wants to take ownership. Please go back to the original post. Why would Nimits think a PTO could be in the works?

#4396051 - 12/21/17 04:08 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: ricnunes]  
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Originally Posted by ricnunes
Originally Posted by Carefree
Damn, am really sad this has been postponed, lets be honest guys, postponed means cancelled, if its going to happen its not gonna happen for years, possibly a decade or so now, might not even be alive then.

Jason is in charge, and it seems its not gonna happen, so there we go.

For what its worth I think it could have worked, anyone remember 1942 Pacific Air War and the Gold version of it, my goodness that was one incredible sim in its day and never wanted for anything in its day, it took place over the Pacific and had incredible carrier action and a diverse plane set, carrier take offs, carrier landings, rough seas, torpedo attacks, bomb runs and dogfights, could fly for American or Japanese, it could be played as a separate strategic war game too.

The current mind set of Jason's Il2 ETC is not really that diverse, would prefer things went back to ROF2 than yet a 4th episode of more of the same.

Would loved to have seen a modern pacific WW2 sim in my lifetime, guess its not gonna happen.

Hell, even PAW1942 Gold updated would have been awesome.



1942 PAW, man that was one hell of a combat flight sim! The best (by far) WWII Pacific sim ever made! The sad part is that it is so old since it was made for MS-DOS and nothing modern remotely as good ever came up!

Why these modern game/sim developers can't build such a similar sim?? Jezz with all the modern development tools available it should be easier to develop any game, including combat flight simulations.

I guess this is just one more evidence that shows how messed up the world is today...

Anyway my point is, great people when developing/building great things usually look at the past for inspiration - current sim developers just do the opposite rolleyes



+1

I wish for a modern version of "1942 Pacific Air War" above all other gaming wishes. It was simply AWESOME in its day.

It even had 56k modem multiplayer!! My sim flying buddy and I even discussed getting 2 phone lines so we could use one to MP while talking on the other. Instead we sufficed with the canned messages you could send to one another in game. I distinctly remember the "Watch this *Willie" message we created and sent to one another quite a bit. And the PvP battles we set up, dogfighting Corsairs and Georges over Henderson field or intercepting Bettys over same.

Nothing since has come close. And it has been 23 years since 1942 PAW was released. I was 32 then, 55 now. Twenty Three Years. Sad.


*Willie as in Willie Driscoll, RIO to USN Ace Randy Cunningham wink I think we also had a "Right down the snot locker" message too, for head on passes. LOL


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#4396052 - 12/21/17 04:12 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4396330 - 12/22/17 11:54 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Frogyy2]  
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Originally Posted by Frogyy2
So where is PTO in their business plan? Anyone can fantasize about developing a PTO flight sim.


The current plane is that I win the lottery, buy 1C game studies outright (of course, keeping Jason on as director/manager/etc.) and we sit down and create the greatest PTO flight sim ever, including the carrier battles of 1942: PAW, a campaign that would make Falcon 4.0 or RB3D cry, and plane and ship set that includes every major combat and training variant and class.

Granted, the prognosis for the success of this plan would probably improve if I bought a lottery ticket . . .

#4396336 - 12/23/17 12:14 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
So where is PTO in their business plan? Anyone can fantasize about developing a PTO flight sim.


The current plane is that I win the lottery, buy 1C game studies outright (of course, keeping Jason on as director/manager/etc.) and we sit down and create the greatest PTO flight sim ever, including the carrier battles of 1942: PAW, a campaign that would make Falcon 4.0 or RB3D cry, and plane and ship set that includes every major combat and training variant and class.

Granted, the prognosis for the success of this plan would probably improve if I bought a lottery ticket . . .



Add in player controlled surface ship ops and I'll throw in my lottery winnings (if I have any).

I actually played 1942 PAW Carrier Battles last night, Battle of the Eastern Solomons.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4396342 - 12/23/17 12:35 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
So where is PTO in their business plan? Anyone can fantasize about developing a PTO flight sim.


The current plane is that I win the lottery, buy 1C game studies outright (of course, keeping Jason on as director/manager/etc.) and we sit down and create the greatest PTO flight sim ever, including the carrier battles of 1942: PAW, a campaign that would make Falcon 4.0 or RB3D cry, and plane and ship set that includes every major combat and training variant and class.

Granted, the prognosis for the success of this plan would probably improve if I bought a lottery ticket . . .



Add in player controlled surface ship ops and I'll throw in my lottery winnings (if I have any).

I actually played 1942 PAW Carrier Battles last night, Battle of the Eastern Solomons.


That will be for the sequel. where we combine the best of Silent Hunter IV, Task Force 1942, Great Naval Battles II/III, and Destroyer Command . . .

I mean, you cannot do everything in just one game . . .

Last edited by Nimits; 12/23/17 12:36 AM.
#4396351 - 12/23/17 01:42 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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You're going to need a bigger... jackpot. wink

#4396355 - 12/23/17 02:45 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Don’t forget the DLC fortune that will roll in.

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