Hi,

Bit of advice from the gurus here please. I used to know my stuff with PC's back in the day, when I say that I mean 386/486DX etc! Since then I have had PC's but generally just buy pre-built stuff and the performance of them I only use for general stuff like ITunes, internet etc. As such I am completely out of date with the current gen stuff and would like to get back into gaming.

I do not need the latest bleeding edge kit, something that can run Steel Beasts well would be good. I also intend to try BMS and want this to be silky. I'm not interested in the latest FPS or GTA etc but the main reason for getting back into PC Gaming is Cold Waters so that running like a boss would be important.

The thing I am mostly rusty about is graphics cards and processors. In the past I was always an Intel guy but I am happy to go AMD if better. Likewise, I always seemed to prefer Nvidia but am completely open now.

I can build my own rig, but any advice about which graphics card, processor and memory types would be amazing help. Is SSD really necessary? (I am thinking so for speed of loading etc).

Obviously I am looking at the many guides on the internet but would be helpful to hear real world advice from guys here who know their stuff and would run the same sort of games.

Thanks so much for any advice. My budget is flexible but as stated, I don't need the latest and greatest kit and would prefer to keep the costs down where possible.

Ross

i5 Kaby Lake or Skylake should be good enough, 16GB RAM of decent speeds, and GTX 1070 or 1060. Depends on how far forward you want to push your setup (OC setups? or non-OC?) and what your budget and priorities are.

I would not hesitate to recommend getting a good 250+GB SSD for OS... it really does make a difference for boot times and also for game loading times. Depending on the game, it may help with microstutters as well. It does nothing for FPS though... that's usually all up to CPU/GPU capabilities. You can easily fit OS and a few select games in a 250+GB sized SSD, or get a bigger SSD (500+GB) to fit more games in, but I prefer having 2x SSDs, one for OS, one for games that I play often.... then just put the rest of my games on a short-stroked partition of my HDD.

So far, Intel is still king in CPU and GPU departments, although arguments can be made of "value for money" for AMD GPUs but I think unless you're absolutely penny-pinching, go Intel.

Hope that helps!

Thanks Ice, you've helped greatly, especially in regard to the SSD thing, this is new to me! I had seen the GTX 1070 and it looked enough for me. It was the processor I was confused with, was going i3 but looks like I should go higher.

Thanks again.

What Ice said, pretty much covers it.
I use a 250GB SSD for OS and a WD Black 2TB drive for games. Room on there for a backup image of the OS drive as well.

Yeah it seems the SSD option is really beneficial and was thinking bigger the better. Does it show up like another HDD on Explorer etc?

Yes,it's no different to a HDD in that respect.

Have to agree on SSD. I use a 500 GB as a main and only drive, but I only play RoF and BoS so don't need loads of storage.

After reviewing the above thread and the the advice given.

Intel I5, GTX1060/1070 and min 250 GB SSD is a sound choice.

You'd get a very respectable and capable system out of that

Honestly, I'd go Intel too. Wish I had. Just too expensive to switch over. Love my 1070.

You're most welcome, Ross. I will say that you **might** be able to get away with an i3 CPU, but IMO you are getting good value and future-proofing with an i5. Still, there have been "budget gaming builds" that go with i3 CPUs so that's not a totally wrong choice. Like I said, it depends on your budget and what you find acceptable.

Do note that Steam now allows you to install games in different drives so you can install Steam itself in a HDD, then install your "best" games on the SSD and other games on a HDD.... so no need to cram everything in a HDD.

Ice,

I think your right about the i5, and future proofing. Which leads me onto the mobo. I was thinking this as can swap out the CPU of I want.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...rd-mb-54x-gi.html?campaign=affiliate/tag

It looks to my inexperienced eyes an ok board?

Steve,

Thanks, I'll try for a 500 SSD, seems wiser.

Ross

The CPU choice will dictate the motherboard... if you go for a K-series chip which can be OC'ed, then you'll want a Z-series motherboard that can handle it. I don't see the point in a motherboard that can swap out CPUs... the performance difference between Kaby and Sky isn't anything to write home about and it's quite difficult to sell on a CPU by itself, so best buying a CPU-motherboard combo that you're happy with, even if you'd compromise the GPU for now. It's easier to eBay a GPU than it is to eBay a CPU.

I would also stay away from OcUK... I've used them before and they're okay but Scan seems to be better in customer service and in prices. Seems like the price difference between a Kaby 7600K and a Sky 6600K is only a few £££ and the 6600K is cheaper only due to a sale... A Z270 board can also be had for around £15-£20 more than the H270 board you linked, so by going for a K-chip and a Z-board, you're not exactly breaking the bank... it'll be more expensive, sure, but again, OC capability and future-proofing.

As for the SSD, 500GB is a good SSD but I just liked the idea of having OS and games on different SSDs. That way, when it goes bad, it doesn't take both games and OS down with it...

Wow, thanks Ice your really getting me back up to speed.

I'll take that on board, just going to try Scan and I think I'll follow your advice and go for the combo. Didn't know you could to be honest.

And yeah the reasoning behind the two drives is sound. Surprised that the low prices they can be brought for to be honest.

I built my box in January. It runs BMS like silk. 100+ PFS in the biggest campaigns. It isn't cutting edge, but runs everything beautifully. Witcher 3 maxxed out over 60 FPS, Elite Dangerous on Ultra at 200 FPS. Really nice without costing too much. Full disclosure, my mainboard did die and I had to replace it.

-- i7 6700K Skylake
-- Asus Z170 mainboard
-- 16 gigs o' RAM
-- EVGA 750w power supply
-- 500 GB Samsung SSD
-- 2TB Seagate mechanical
-- Asus GTX 1070 8GB
-- Win 10

What's that supposed to mean?


Yep, they're quite reasonable now... I looked at how much my Crucial M4 256GB SSD cost me back in the day... much more than a 500GB drive now!!

As for prices, spec up your system on all prospective retailers... sometimes it seems like they make up the difference in "savings" in shipping costs.

As in I didn't know you you could buy MOBO with CPU as a combo. Though having looked think it's cheaper to buy separate and think you would agree. I may have just misunderstood your meaning.

That sounds a lovely rig, though think a bit above my budget! I am just going to buy a couple of things a month. My disposable income is good, but would rather get good kit and wait than settle. I intend it to last me a while. Thanks for showing your rig, I may use what you have as a reference.

Yes, well, the CPU and the power supply are both more than I needed, but were future proofed, or at least that was my thinking. The rest I would reckon is about bog standard these days.

Including case and OS that set me back about $1400 US dollars. So you could easily get that down another $100-$200 with different CPU and power supply. It was 6 months ago as well, so prices may have moderated a bit.

Still not sure what you mean about "being honest"...

As for MB+CPU combo, it really depends on the seller. Scan does it, but from the 2x I've purchased a CPU+MB from them, they weren't offering my chosen MB as a CPU+MB combo so I bought the CPU and MB separately and didn't really do the price comparison. When asking for advice regarding Z-series boards, it's basically "they're all very good, so pick one that suits your budget or has the features you want/need or has the amount of outputs you need." Since my first MB was a Gigabyte board, I went with what I knew and picked one that could support multiple GPUs (in case I want to try it later on) and had support for two M.2 NVMe drives.

You've not really mentioned your budget or what your current setup is. For reference, my setup is:
Intel Core i5 6600K (Skylake)
Noctua NH-D15 Dual Radiator CPU Cooler
Gigabyte GA-Z170X Gaming 7
Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX Black 16GB (2x8GB) 3000MHz CAS 15-17-17-35
EVGA GTX 980Ti Classified Gaming ACX2.0+
EVGA SuperNOVA G2 850W Full Modular 80+ Gold
Corsair Carbide 500R Black Gaming Case
Windows 7 64-bit Home Premium (upgraded to Win10 Anniversary Edition)

I bought this on Dec 2015 so it's more than a year old now. Of the above, the Corsair Carbide case and OS was from the old PC. Same for SSDs, HDDs, mouse, keyboard, and monitors. It's quite a splurge but considering that my old setup was an i5 750 from 2010, well, I thought it was about time to upgrade properly but even then, the i5 750 wasn't really struggling. It also had a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo cooler which served it pretty well but getting the 6600K and a 980Ti, I thought I may as well get the best CPU air cooler available.

My current rig has the old Crucial M4 mentioned earlier which I'll be transferring back to the i5 750 setup (which is now my son's gaming PC), a Samsung 850 EVO SSD after an old 840 EVO died, and a Samsung 960 M.2 NVMe drive for OS just because I wanted to test it For bigger storage, I have an old Samsung Spinpoint F1 (purchased at the same time as my i5 750 in 2010) and a new WD Blue drive.

For your purchasing plans, I would suggest prioritizing your CPU + MB selection, as well as your RAM kit.... but the RAM would be quite cheap even at 2x 8GB kits. After CPU/MB, PSU would be the next priority, then GPU, then everything else. Depending on your case now, you may be able to continue using it but again, PC cases is one of those things I don't see the point in being too stingy about. A good case should last you many, many years and even see you through several internal upgrades, so even if a good case is an expensive initial purchase, it's value lies in how many years of service it will give you.

Ice,what do you run your CPU at on air? I have the same CPU but rather stupidly I went with the non-K,a decision I may regret further up the road.

I was able to push it up to 4.6 on air IIRC, but it was unstable so settled for 4.5, but this was shortly after I got it. I've been running it on stock since then, but re-OC'ing it is one of my To-Do things this year... once I sort out the game room upstairs and move it back there. It's currently in the living room on VR duty as I demo the Vive to friends.

I'm not sure about regretting buying a non-OC capable chip. My old i5 750 was OC-able too, but again, never really felt the need to do so. When I passed it on to my son, I was playing the latest games without having to tweak setup to get decent framerates, and that was with a AMD 7970 GPU. Your 7600 non-K may well serve you 3-5 years without you having the need to OC.

Ah,I was referring to the i5 6600K you initially mentioned,I should have been more specific.

Yeah, the first paragraph was about the 6600K.

All,

Thanks for your advice, it has helped greatly.

I have decided to go with Z270 mobo (I really want a mobo that has USB Type-C support), i5 6500 3.2Ghz and a GTX 1060 though I think a 1050 would be enough.

Hmmm... no reason to go with a Z-series board if you're using a 6500... also, why go with a 270 on a Skylake chip? Granted there's not much price difference depending on which Z/H/270/170 board you're getting...

Curious as to why you're not spending the extra £20-25 to get a 6600K chip instead?

Ah, I think the reason was pure ignorance. Back to the drawing board! Thought I had it then, it seems to me the 1060GTX is a reasonable GPU for the bang I want per buck. It was a lot simpler in the old days, I must admit I have found it confusing to get back up to speed.

So a Z board is probably overkill for what I am teaming it up with, the i5 6500 and the 1060? If so it does make sense to either pay more for the 6600 and get a Z board or an H board with the 6500? Does that make sense?

Don't do what I did.I bought a i5 6600non-K CPU. It's fine for gaming now but I might regret that decision in a few years if I want to squeeze a bit more out of it. The price difference isn't great as Ice pointed out.

I know that you can overclock non-K CPUs but it's not officially supported and has a few issues,at least the last time I checked.

I don't think you will be disappointed with a 6600 non-K but I often wonder why Intel bother with it tbh.

Well, if you're already considering a Z-series board, then I assume you've looked at their prices and you're comfortable with it.... which reminds me, you've not mentioned a budget yet...

Like I said, if you want to get a Z-series board (supports overclocking), then it should be because you're getting a K-series chip (overclockable CPUs). Looking at prices on Scan, the 6500 is only around £21 cheaper than the 6600K and the 7600 is only around £18 cheaper than the 7600K... for those price differences, I'd go for the K version if nothing but the security of knowing that I can overclock if I want/need to.

Comparing H270 boards and Z270 boards, there's a jump of anywhere from £20-£60 depending on the board you want to get. Comparing H170 boards and Z170 boards, there's a jump of around £10-£50..... but on either case, you can get a Z170 board for cheaper than a H170 and so on... just depending on what you want to get.

Looking at prices and considering future-proofing, I would suggest a 7600K chip and a Z270 board. The 7600K is £12 more than the 6600K, so might as well get the latest CPU. Z270 boards start at £110 while Z170 boards start at £100, so again, choices abound!


As for your GPU, a 1060 would work fine..... what monitor size and resolution are you using? What games do you want to run? The reason I'm not too bothered by GPU choice is because it's easy enough to upgrade the GPU later on. My i5 750, despite being purchased in 2010, went through 4 GPUs... a 5770, a 6970, a 7970, then a 980Ti.

Ok, I am going to digest what you wrote because you've given me food for thought. Choices abound is the understatement!

My budget is initially around £700-800, however, this is to get all the main components. And I can add along the way as I am in no rush to build so from month to month I can save if I need to. I'd like the build to come in under 1k, and while I am not skint - the lower the better.

I already have a serviceable tower, plenty of HDD (sata), monitor, peripherals etc. I am going to order PSU, RAM and the SSD soonish and then can concentrate on the rest over the next couple of months.

Games, well, I am not looking to play the latest FPS etc but I would like Flight SImulator, DCS, Cold Waters, BMS and Steel Beasts. I am only interested in using it for gaming, I have a day to day desktop for all things Itunes etc.

I am only using a Samsung 21 inch, which I intend to replace but this is not as important as the build for now. I'm running it at 1680x1050 which I know is pretty basic.

One more question, what is the current recommended amount of RAM to have in general. I'm not looking to have all the bells and whistles, I was thinking a minimum of 16Gb? My current little workhorse desktop is only an i5-4460 and that has 8 so I would think 16 is adequate for now?

So £1K, ideally in the £700-800 range.... to buy a CPU, motherboard, RAM, and GPU...
What is your current PSU? I would greatly suggest buying a 250GB SSD right from the get-go as well and put your OS there and a few select games. It'll be a nice boost to performance (boot and loading times) if all you're used to up to now is HDD drives.

So...
i5 7600K - £230
Z270 board - £150
16GB (2x8GB) 2800 DDR4 - £125

Total - £505... those are just ballpark figures as well. GTX 1060s of the 3GB flavor, sorry, flavoUr start at £185 and the 6GB variety start at £230. For a 1680x1050 screen, the 3GB one should do fine but I suggest going for the 6GB one so that it can handle better textures once you upgrade to a bigger monitor. I recommend getting the ones with two or three fans --- they can spin slower and still give adequate cooling. If you can find one that keeps the fans off under idle conditions, then you'll have a quiet GPU and the only time it's noisy is when you're gaming but you won't be paying attention to the PC case at that point anyway

250GB SSDs start at around the £80 mark and if anything, this one is well worth the money.

So...............update!

I have taken the plunge, set aside time to actually get back up to speed with the hardware side. And thanks to all your thoughts, especially Ice's I have ordered my rig.

Intel Core I5 7600K 4.2Ghz
Gigabyte Z270-HD3P Motherboard
16GB DDR4 2133Mhz
Asus GeForce GTX 1060 6GB GDDR5, 1280 Core, 1506MHz
Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB 2.5 inch Solid State Drive
3TB HDD
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Air CPU Cooler

Plus a new case, monitor and mouse. I found my budget was a little higher than I thought so wanted the 6GB 1060 instead.

Just awaiting delivery, then the build!

Incidentally, I ended up ordering Windows 10 Pro edition, but wanted to really stick with Windows 7 Pro - is there really any benefit of going 10?

Thanks again for all your help.

Ross

Congrats on the new build!!

I have that exact same cooler... but I'm using it on my old i5 750. I would say that the 7600K may warrant more cooling... but then it depends if you OC it or not. My cooler for my 6600K is a Noctua NH-D15. As for Win10, it depends on what you want to play. I've had issues with Win10 Creator's Update and had to roll back and stick with Win10 Anniversary Edition. The CU wasn't playing nice with my touchscreen setup.

I'm not planning on overclocking for the near future - think I will be so impressed over the initial performance I will be reluctant to. But I do have options, the case has 3 fans which I plan to rig up to mobo just cos it's easier to do it during the build,. Plus I will attach that cooler in any case instead of the stock one.

I have Windows 10 on my basic desktop and cannot really complain, as long as my new beast runs Arma 3, Cold Waters, DCS, BMS etc then I am happy.

Are you happy with your setup as of now, I only ask as it is an endless task to keep up to date, hence me spending a bit more now so that in the long run my PC has legs for a few years. They truly are a moneypit!

1. There really is no need to "keep up to date." The only reason I have my setup now is because my son's PC went kaput on Dec 2015, so that was the nudge I needed to upgrade. Had it not happened, I would've probably kept that setup for at least another year or two. i5 750 and HD 7970 and it could run all games at 1920x1080 res at very good levels. I only really multi-screened flight sims.

People who think PC gaming is expensive because they think you need to upgrade every 6 months or so do not really have a clue about the hobby.

2. The K-series chips don't come with a stock cooler As for the CoolerMaster Hyper 212, it's a very good cooler for the price. However, if you can idle at 20 degrees C, well, I just think that's better than idling at 25 degrees C. I just think that overclocking or not, the cooler the CPU runs, the better it is for the hardware.

3. Not sure about Arma or CW or DCS, but some people have been having issues with their peripherals with BMS and Win10CU. I would best recommend getting Win10AE instead.

4. As for my current setup, yes, I'm quite pleased with it. I was looking for a case replacement for my Corsair Carbide 500R case and have not found a suitable candidate based on my needs/preferences. I'm not much of a fan of the new tempered glass "fad" or the side-vents on the front of the case. I like max airflow. I could probably upgrade to bigger-capacity SSDs later on, but I currently have a 250GB M.2 NVMe drive for OS and another 250GB SATA SSD for games.... I've moved my other 250GB SATA SSD to my son's PC to give it a good boost. My pet peeve is that I don't have a dust filter for my side fan.... but I clean my PC every 12-18 months so that's not much of an issue.

If my old setup lasted me 5 years, I expect this to do the same with maybe a few GPU upgrades during it's lifetime. Maybe a RAM upgrade too, depending on RAM prices and if software can actually make better use of more RAM. Neither "upgrades" are necessary; I suspect my 980Ti can handle anything for the next 2-3 years, maybe more, so it all depends on how "cutting-edge performance" I want it to be.

Bottom line, the setup does not **NEED** anything else really. Just me having the upgrade itch every now and again. Like adding two more USB 3.0 ports to make use of the second USB 3.0 header in the motherboard. Speaking of which, I was eyeing a powered USB hub that had 2 dedicated ports for charging devices....

Well, I have at last set up the PC. The build went relatively smoothly, though at first I had problems getting the SSD to be recognized, though rooting around in the BIOS sorted it. Was a little worried with the heat sink paste and connecting the cooler to it, but went far easier than I thought it would. The motherboard is excellent and loads of expansion ports for future if needed (already thinking of another SSD).

My 3TB drive on my old PC didn't want to play nicely with the new set up which irked me, it has two 1.5TB partitions and for some reason only the Windows partition showed up, with the second one empty - I booted into old Windows set-up in the end and used undelete software, turns out for some reason it was wiped - I have no idea how. Anyway, all files recovered ok.

Everything else went well, set up three fans and it is running at idle at around 27 degrees which seems acceptable to me. Haven't really tried loading it and checking temperature but I will do when I start using it more often. I ended up getting a 27 inch Acer monitor for a steal and love it, even has a USB C charger port on it!

Day to day running the thing absolutely flies, and Ice - you were damn right about the SSD - the boot time is amazing, from off to everything loaded in about ten seconds. Impressive!

I intend to get some fps for the games I have installed but it's not the be and all as already I can tell it eats everything it has run. Combat Air Patrol 2 for instance has every setting maxed and it is easily running at 60fps and mostly likely 90fps at how smooth everything is, loading times are from the SSD so rapid as to be expected.

Cold Waters, is silky smooth and an excellent game if you into that sort of thing.

The Corsair case impressed me, plenty of room for expansion and well built, definitely a convert to them so the new keyboard and mouse will likely be from them. Though the GPU only just fitted in as nearly got in the way of the SSD tray and access for the SATA cable, though it just fit but little too cosy for my liking. I will probably look at moving the SSD to another part of the case.

Thanks again to you Ice, your advice really did end up in me getting a future proof PC...........now.......to install BMS!

Glad to have helped and glad you're enjoying your new PC!!

What Corsair case did you get? As for the HDD, sometimes Windows will not "recognize" the drive but when you go to Disk Management, all it is is that Windows did not assign that drive a drive letter. Do that and you should have it working again like before. I don't know why this happens but I had it happen to me a few times with a few HDDs and even an SSD....

As for the boot time, it's cool now, but it'll get slower once the system gets more and more bogged down with "startup" programs. You can turn these off if you like, but really, "slower" is only maybe 15-20 seconds if it used to be 10 seconds. I would suggest turning off ALL your case fans, running your games for a few hours, and then examine how high the CPU and GPU temps went.... or keep everything turned on but run one of the CPU-intensive tests to see how high CPU temps go under your current air cooler. This would at least give you a worst-case scenario and you'd see if you need additional cooling or not.

Lastly... PICS!!!