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#4360217 - 05/30/17 01:26 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: Nate]  
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Winfield Offline
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Originally Posted by Nate
Originally Posted by Winfield
Originally Posted by Nate
Originally Posted by Winfield
[quote=Tirak]Nate, can you elaborate on this?


No. I'm not a beta tester for ED.

Nate


My mistake.....PR rep if you will.


I won't - I'm not that either.

Nate


Interesting.....you have quite a bit to say when it comes to comments here that go against the grain so to speak whilst being an "unpaid, off the pay role, unofficial tester\PR rep" for ED, perhaps you are both of these roles....just off the books yet backed by the 'official' moderators and community managers, as per us subordinates\consumers who go against anything you say on the 'official ED forums' and is swiftly removed or refuted by those 'officially' in place by ED perhaps. Although you may not wear any 'official' title, ED still supports anything you have to say. Therefore, not being directly supported by the title of 'tester' or 'PR Rep'.....you may be in contention for the Jim Mackonochie trophy.....the trophy that is 'unofficially awarded by ED\TFC' to those who dedicate their posts to become aspiring moderators and community managers at the official ED forums.

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#4360229 - 05/30/17 02:25 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: gn728]  
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I'm one of the ones who got caught up in the 2.1 install SNAFU. Followed bad advice and deleted some of the autoconfig files which reverted my 2.0 to 1.5.6 forcing me to completely reinstall everything from scratch. No reversions...
In turn, I had to use the DOS commands to force 2.1 to find Normandy and install. Finally, I got some time on Sunday to explore the new product. I was unimpressed honestly. Broken input control files and extremely long load times are what I noticed first.

Clearly, Deferred Lighting was only showcased during early or late in the day. The horizontal light during those times makes the shadows look amazing, but anytime else it's just meh... The glass like textures on camo aircraft and cockpits is just terrible. I'd like to hear how Wags overcame that during his Su-25 videos. Tried it over in NTTR and was met with textures that are monochrome and no longer blended with each area. This was enough cause to turn off the DL function until some proper attention is given.

I could go on and on, but to put it bluntly, I'm pretty dissatisfied. I'm sorry but ED really delivered a poor visual environment outside of certain times of day/weather conditions (aside from trees and buildings that I can hide behind finally and water that looks very life like). By his own words, they knew the contrast and brightness was an issue, but pushed it out anyway along with many other graphical anomalies. Hopefully it wont take another year to get sorted.

#4360244 - 05/30/17 03:14 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: Winfield]  
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Nate Offline
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Interesting.....you have quite a bit to say when it comes to comments here that go against the grain so to speak whilst being an "unpaid, off the pay role, unofficial tester\PR rep" for ED, perhaps you are both of these roles....just off the books yet backed by the 'official' moderators and community managers, as per us subordinates\consumers who go against anything you say on the 'official ED forums' and is swiftly removed or refuted by those 'officially' in place by ED perhaps. Although you may not wear any 'official' title, ED still supports anything you have to say. Therefore, not being directly supported by the title of 'tester' or 'PR Rep'.....you may be in contention for the Jim Mackonochie trophy.....the trophy that is 'unofficially awarded by ED\TFC' to those who dedicate their posts to become aspiring moderators and community managers at the official ED forums.


None of this is true.

Nate

#4360249 - 05/30/17 03:40 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: Nate]  
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Originally Posted by Nate
Originally Posted by Winfield
Interesting.....you have quite a bit to say when it comes to comments here that go against the grain so to speak whilst being an "unpaid, off the pay role, unofficial tester\PR rep" for ED, perhaps you are both of these roles....just off the books yet backed by the 'official' moderators and community managers, as per us subordinates\consumers who go against anything you say on the 'official ED forums' and is swiftly removed or refuted by those 'officially' in place by ED perhaps. Although you may not wear any 'official' title, ED still supports anything you have to say. Therefore, not being directly supported by the title of 'tester' or 'PR Rep'.....you may be in contention for the Jim Mackonochie trophy.....the trophy that is 'unofficially awarded by ED\TFC' to those who dedicate their posts to become aspiring moderators and community managers at the official ED forums.


None of this is true.

Nate


Are you calling me out as a liar? More than happy to supply quotes from ED's 'subordinates', yourself Nate, 'official testers', 'Community moderators' to support my claim from various forums you are registered with where the 'general population' of sim enthusiasts have personally called upon yourself for clarification on topics concerning ED (and you have responded) from other forums not associated with ED. As you have stated....'none of this is true' you won't admit it personally.....however the quotes themselves prove I am correct with my observation.

#4360256 - 05/30/17 04:07 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: ST0RM]  
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Originally Posted by ST0RM
I'm one of the ones who got caught up in the 2.1 install SNAFU. Followed bad advice and deleted some of the autoconfig files which reverted my 2.0 to 1.5.6 forcing me to completely reinstall everything from scratch. No reversions...
In turn, I had to use the DOS commands to force 2.1 to find Normandy and install. Finally, I got some time on Sunday to explore the new product. I was unimpressed honestly. Broken input control files and extremely long load times are what I noticed first.

Clearly, Deferred Lighting was only showcased during early or late in the day. The horizontal light during those times makes the shadows look amazing, but anytime else it's just meh... The glass like textures on camo aircraft and cockpits is just terrible. I'd like to hear how Wags overcame that during his Su-25 videos. Tried it over in NTTR and was met with textures that are monochrome and no longer blended with each area. This was enough cause to turn off the DL function until some proper attention is given.

I could go on and on, but to put it bluntly, I'm pretty dissatisfied. I'm sorry but ED really delivered a poor visual environment outside of certain times of day/weather conditions (aside from trees and buildings that I can hide behind finally and water that looks very life like). By his own words, they knew the contrast and brightness was an issue, but pushed it out anyway along with many other graphical anomalies. Hopefully it wont take another year to get sorted.


maybe it is a question of luck smile

[Linked Image]

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#4360259 - 05/30/17 04:09 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Ah, the old Normandy glitch.....obviously 'ED's official testers' have spent far too much time flying the F-18C and not enough time testing Normandy....

May be a bit of truth in this, actually. With Wags announcing the unveiling of the F-18 in 2 weeks' time, they may have diverted resources to that project. However, how can you miss something as basic as an installer? How can you mess up that one thing that every game, program, basically any bit of software needs from day 1 which is the installer? Or is the installer in Alpha mode as well? duh


Originally Posted by Nate
No. I'm not a beta tester for ED.

I won't - I'm not that either.

None of this is true.

Don't you just love it when someone engages you in a conversation but either drops it once they get called out or gives the absolute minimum (read: zero) evidence for their counter-claims?


Originally Posted by Winfield
Are you calling me out as a liar? More than happy to supply quotes

He is, basically. That is their M.O. --- cry out foul, claim anything that makes ED look like the actual incompetents that they are as false information and that ED is just misunderstood, but when you start digging down with facts, evidence from posts and newsletters, and logic, they somehow disappear from the forums and don't respond to your post.... only to pipe up again later on regarding another issue and the M.O. begins again.


A little bit of wisdom from Mr. Burr...

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRLvZwEoFgo#t=30s[/video]
linky


- Ice
#4360260 - 05/30/17 04:15 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: ST0RM]  
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Originally Posted by ST0RM
I was unimpressed honestly. Broken input control files and extremely long load times are what I noticed first.

Isn't DCS notorious for long loading times anyway? So EXTREMELY long load times must be much, much worse considering the present expectation levels.

Originally Posted by ST0RM
Clearly, Deferred Lighting was only showcased during early or late in the day. The horizontal light during those times makes the shadows look amazing, but anytime else it's just meh... The glass like textures on camo aircraft and cockpits is just terrible. I'd like to hear how Wags overcame that during his Su-25 videos. Tried it over in NTTR and was met with textures that are monochrome and no longer blended with each area. This was enough cause to turn off the DL function until some proper attention is given.

Would love a video showing this.

Originally Posted by ST0RM
aside from trees and buildings that I can hide behind finally and water that looks very life like

I can see the point of trees and buildings as DCS has helicopter modules, but what has water got to do with a combat FLIGHT simulation? Too much focus on eye candy for little content in other areas.

Originally Posted by ST0RM
By his own words, they knew the contrast and brightness was an issue, but pushed it out anyway along with many other graphical anomalies. Hopefully it wont take another year to get sorted.

Nah, it'll take three years minimum. See how long Betas stay beta? Normandy is Alpha. smile


- Ice
#4360264 - 05/30/17 04:23 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: gn728]  
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IIRC on the first start the loading time should be expected to be longer due to shader compilation. Don't quote me on that, I'm not sure it's entirely accurate, but there are some things that are done on first run.

As for the water, I don't know - could it be because VISUALS are a huge part of FLIGHT?


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#4360268 - 05/30/17 04:28 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted by GrayGhost
As for the water, I don't know - could it be because VISUALS are a huge part of FLIGHT?


Yep, it's absolutely imperative that you can see the waves lapping at anything more than 10ft AGL.

As for the Normandy terrain coming out of alpha and going beyond beta sometime within the next 5 years, here's a pinch truckload of salt;

[Linked Image]


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4360287 - 05/30/17 05:34 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: gn728]  
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Well I have to say that actually water is, or better, can be pretty important when flying. IRL it's VERY deceptive and you have to be extremely careful when doing any aerobatics big altitude changes over water. I'm saying this form personal RL experience.

That said, let me add this to Paradaz's pinch of salt.

[Linked Image]

#4360289 - 05/30/17 05:38 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted by GrayGhost
As for the water, I don't know - could it be because VISUALS are a huge part of FLIGHT?

Yes, I forgot how important water effects are in a COMBAT flight simulation.

"Two, how could you miss that MiG at Angels 20?"
"Lead, I was so distracted by the unrealistic water effects, I forgot everything else."
"Copy, Two. Fair enough."

"Hawg Lead, call tally on tank 50 meters from waterline."
"Roger, I can see the waterline... goddammit, that is so ugly!"
"Agreed, Hawg Lead. Abort mission. Cleared to RTB."
"Hawg Lead copies."




- Ice
#4360293 - 05/30/17 05:58 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: gn728]  
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All visual improvements contribute to FLIGHT immersion and thus to COMBAT FLIGHT immersion.


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#4360306 - 05/30/17 06:37 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: Winfield]  
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Nate Offline
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Are you calling me out as a liar?


Not at all - simply mistaken - I have no affiliation with ED.

Nate

#4360310 - 05/30/17 06:45 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted by GrayGhost
All visual improvements contribute to FLIGHT immersion and thus to COMBAT FLIGHT immersion.


Did you seriously just mention COMBAT? OMG, where do I possibly start............


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4360312 - 05/30/17 06:49 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: gn728]  
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@Ice I see your angle, but for low level operations water can be very important for gauging height. I launched from the back of a DDG and was impressed with the movement, reflectivity and spray.

As for the rest, I'll try and capture a video of what I was referring to in Nevada and with the modern jets. Screen shots at least.

#4360315 - 05/30/17 06:50 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: Paradaz]  
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You possibly start with FLIGHT. You might want to expand into things like visual disorientation studies etc. A high fidelity visual simulation is part of all this; like with all features, some additions can be of greater or lesser value, but they add up.

Or you can start at where you and Ice decided to whine about an added feature as if it was something bad. smile

Originally Posted by Paradaz
Did you seriously just mention COMBAT? OMG, where do I possibly start............


Last edited by GrayGhost; 05/30/17 06:51 PM.

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#4360346 - 05/30/17 10:37 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted by GrayGhost
All visual improvements contribute to FLIGHT immersion and thus to COMBAT FLIGHT immersion.

Ah yes, of course it does, just because you said it does. duh
Please give us high resolution automobile textures on a 100,000 poly model. Doesn't matter if you don't see it at Angels 20, doesn't matter if you don't see it during COMBAT, it's a visual improvement and thus contributes to COMBAT FLIGHT immersion. GrayGhost logic FTW!!

Originally Posted by GrayGhost
You possibly start with FLIGHT.

Nobody's arguing that DCS has flight. It's that other word that's important. It's that other word that distinguishes it from the likes of FSX/P3D/XP.

Originally Posted by GrayGhost
You might want to expand into things like visual disorientation studies etc. A high fidelity visual simulation is part of all this; like with all features, some additions can be of greater or lesser value, but they add up.

Ah yes. Because poor water effects have greatly contributed to visual disorientation, right? How do you know if you're up/down/left/right? Look at the WATER!! Of course!!

Originally Posted by GrayGhost
Or you can start at where you and Ice decided to whine about an added feature as if it was something bad. smile

Sorry for the whining. After all, poor water effects has been one of the main issues of DCS since day one. It's the main cause of delays and why the game needs to be patched for every campaign DLC. Those modules that get broken after a patch? That's due to poor water effects. With better water effects, missiles now fly right and aircraft damage models have improved in accuracy by a factor of 1,000%!! How dare me and Paradaz whine about water features being added when it is clearly a priority in a COMBAT FLIGHT simulation.

In other news, it's a big day for Silent Hunter fans because clouds now move realistically with atmospheric winds....


- Ice
#4360347 - 05/30/17 10:40 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: gn728]  
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The lovely water effects may be beneficial........for anyone walking around the payware carrier in first person mode. Looking forward to that said no-one ever. But it's all part of the DCS COMBAT experience I'd wager.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4360349 - 05/30/17 10:42 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: ST0RM]  
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Originally Posted by ST0RM
@Ice I see your angle, but for low level operations water can be very important for gauging height. I launched from the back of a DDG and was impressed with the movement, reflectivity and spray.

Indeed, and I totally agree with you there! Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its wrong for them to improve on water textures and for a map like Normandy catering to slower-flying aircraft, water movement will be much more noticeable than if the pilot was in a fast-mover like an F-15. I'm just saying that this is yet another example of skewed priorities.

Originally Posted by ST0RM
As for the rest, I'll try and capture a video of what I was referring to in Nevada and with the modern jets. Screen shots at least.

Thank you! biggrin


- Ice
#4360350 - 05/30/17 10:46 PM Re: Kinda DCS confused... [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
The lovely water effects may be beneficial........for anyone walking around the payware carrier in first person mode. Looking forward to that said no-one ever. But it's all part of the DCS COMBAT experience I'd wager.

Yes, of course, Paradaz! Don't you walk around the carrier in first person mode before the flight? Pre-flight checks on your aircraft? Then walk from your aircraft back into the carrier after a mission? Then look forlornly out to sea, pondering why you lost your good buddy, then throw his dogtags out to sea where they belong?

What would you rather ED focus on? Water effects that nobody's really asked for or a dynamic campaign that bulldozed the polls? The answer is clear, don't you think? wink


- Ice
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