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#4356713 - 05/10/17 11:44 PM another 16GB RAM will it help?  
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Hey Guys,

I am thinking of adding another 16GB of RAM on my system and was wondering if it will help with DCS Performance.. Currenty here are my specs:

1. Intel 7600K @ 4.7GHZ
2. MSI Z270 SLI Motherboard
3. Corsair Vengence 16GB
4. eVGA 980GTX
5. SoundBlaster Z 5.1 soundcard..
6. Win 10 64bit..
7. Western Digitial VelociRaptor 500GB

I am not looking to get a SSD. I used them and they don't work well for what I do and how I use the PC..


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#4356722 - 05/11/17 12:01 AM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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I doubt it. Are you running out of RAM?? Why are you skipping the SSD? I would've thought that'll be the best thing you can do for your system and games... it'll help with loading times and access, but will do nothing for FPS gain. Some people did say it helps with microstutters (accessing the HDD), but not sure how it applies to the current build of whatever DCS branch you're playing.


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#4356745 - 05/11/17 01:42 AM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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OK I am going to keep the SSD drive I have and what I did was transfer the DCS World games to that drive we shall see what happens.. it definetely loads quicker.. but I was hoping that adding more RAM might help as well..

I did see a post over at ED Forums with the same question and it seems more say it helped that not.. I will have to run that mission online and see what the ram usage is to determine what I am going to do..


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#4356770 - 05/11/17 07:00 AM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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The only game that can "take advantage" of over 8GB of RAM is Batman Arkham Knight, and that is on Windows 10 only. For whatever reason it requires 12GB on Win 10. But remember, that game was so buggy at release it was pulled from sale for months. I think X-Plane might take advantage of it? Some obscure game does. But aside from that, you'd be hard pressed to need over 8GB of RAM for any game. 32GB is entirely overkill unless you're getting into professional video or audio editing. Or something else professional.

#4356771 - 05/11/17 07:48 AM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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I dont think that is correct Flogger..DCS is using a ton of Ram.. Do you play DCS Flogger, because I had 1 mission where the vram alone was almost 11GB Plususing 5GB for the gamealone.. so basically my vram on my vid casrd is 4GB so anything over that it uses RAM. I figure 8+5=13 ram. I just thought maybe Ram was like Hard drive space you need a certain percentage for headroom and such??

So since I was using so much Ram I thought adding 16 more would help stability and such..


Intel i7 10700K @ 4.8GHZ / ASRock Z590 Phantom Gaming 4AC Motherboard / Asus 1080GTX OC / SoundBlaster Z / Windows 10 64bit / Reverb G2 VR Gear. / Thrustmaster Cougar + MFD's / Buttkicker Simulation / Thrustmaster Cougar
#4356773 - 05/11/17 08:12 AM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
The only game that can "take advantage" of over 8GB of RAM is......


"When we set the upper limit of PC-DOS at 640K, we thought nobody would ever need that much memory". — William Gates, chairman of Microsoft

Here is one that takes full advantage of 16GB of ram, It loads entire map files onto the ram for faster access and less stutter, all so recommends 4gb or more graphics cards when choosing the option in the settings
Squad


Only a matter of time before 32GB of ram will be the norm for other game manufacturers to take advantage of loading entire games onto ram.

All so, you can buy ram which can function as both a hard drive and access memory for faster Up\Down speeds than ssd's.

Some manufacturers are selling SSD cards that fit into a 16x slots like the graphics cards......only a matter of time before PCI-Express become the norm for hard drives and do away with cables entirely



#4356774 - 05/11/17 08:20 AM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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good luck getting another 16G kit to play well with your current kit



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#4356787 - 05/11/17 12:34 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Some manufacturers are selling SSD cards that fit into a 16x slots like the graphics cards......only a matter of time before PCI-Express become the norm for hard drives and do away with cables entirely


m.2 is faster.


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#4356835 - 05/11/17 04:29 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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Of all my last 12-months investments, the biggest positive effect on both DCS and CloD were obtained by: a) getting a 8GB VRAM card; b) getting an SSD; c) bumping system RAM from 8 to 16. Exactly in that order.

DCS 2.0 is already extremely VRAM hungry now and I think it's going to stay that way in the future. It also continuously loads lots of assets during flight, especially when using zoom function. That used to cause just too many damn annoying stutters on my older config, when the game ran off HDD, furiously exchanging data between HDD, RAM and VRAM. Buying SSD solved almost all of them, buying new card dealt with the rest.

16 GB of system RAM is enough for small-to medium scale single player missions. People report it's not always quite enough for mulitplayer and bigger scenarios though. Do some tests flying on your favourite servers and monitor total memory usage, including swap file. I would still recommend not giving up on SSD!

#4356842 - 05/11/17 05:55 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
The only game that can "take advantage" of over 8GB of RAM is Batman Arkham Knight, and that is on Windows 10 only. For whatever reason it requires 12GB on Win 10. But remember, that game was so buggy at release it was pulled from sale for months. I think X-Plane might take advantage of it? Some obscure game does. But aside from that, you'd be hard pressed to need over 8GB of RAM for any game. 32GB is entirely overkill unless you're getting into professional video or audio editing. Or something else professional.


You may be correct in stating that a particular game doesn't use more than 8-12GB RAM......however, it really depends what else is going on in your system and what else is taking available resources - its unrealistic for everyone to kill background processes to free up memory every time. A system with 8GB may only have 4Gb available at the point of launching a game and whilst some will be released where available there is no point in strangling a system. There's really no such thing as overkill with system RAM....,the more you have, the more it will be utilised and there are distinct advantages for having more than less.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4356843 - 05/11/17 06:10 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
The only game that can "take advantage" of over 8GB of RAM is Batman Arkham Knight, and that is on Windows 10 only. For whatever reason it requires 12GB on Win 10. But remember, that game was so buggy at release it was pulled from sale for months. I think X-Plane might take advantage of it? Some obscure game does. But aside from that, you'd be hard pressed to need over 8GB of RAM for any game. 32GB is entirely overkill unless you're getting into professional video or audio editing. Or something else professional.


That is just plain incorrect.


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#4356845 - 05/11/17 06:14 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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Originally Posted by The Nephilim
I dont think that is correct Flogger..DCS is using a ton of Ram.. Do you play DCS Flogger, because I had 1 mission where the vram alone was almost 11GB Plususing 5GB for the gamealone.. so basically my vram on my vid casrd is 4GB so anything over that it uses RAM. I figure 8+5=13 ram. I just thought maybe Ram was like Hard drive space you need a certain percentage for headroom and such??

So since I was using so much Ram I thought adding 16 more would help stability and such..



I went from 8GB to 16GB a few months back and noticed zero performance change. A few updates ago DCS started experiencing a lot of stutters. It is worse on the wold map; NTTR is much smoother. This seems to be a DCS problem and likely won't change until the big graphical engine update is released. I even updated my GPU in that time frame and went from 4 to 8GB of VRAM and I still get the stutters. I have never played a game that was limited with 8GB of RAM. Even years ago, 2GB of RAM on Vista running Crysis showed zero performance/load time difference in my casual tests. And we all know Vista was a resource hog compared to Win 10.

Adding over 16GB of RAM for games is like adding in a 1000 watt PSU. It won't hurt, but a quality 550 watt PSU is more than enough for a PC with a top of the line GPU and CPU.

VRAM is entirely different. Games have been using this more and more, and increases in resolution/AA use more VRAM. If you're on 1440P I would get a GPU with 8GB of VRAM... 1080, I would get one with 6GB and no less.

Originally Posted by Paradaz
Originally Posted by Flogger23m
The only game that can "take advantage" of over 8GB of RAM is Batman Arkham Knight, and that is on Windows 10 only. For whatever reason it requires 12GB on Win 10. But remember, that game was so buggy at release it was pulled from sale for months. I think X-Plane might take advantage of it? Some obscure game does. But aside from that, you'd be hard pressed to need over 8GB of RAM for any game. 32GB is entirely overkill unless you're getting into professional video or audio editing. Or something else professional.


You may be correct in stating that a particular game doesn't use more than 8-12GB RAM......however, it really depends what else is going on in your system and what else is taking available resources - its unrealistic for everyone to kill background processes to free up memory every time. A system with 8GB may only have 4Gb available at the point of launching a game and whilst some will be released where available there is no point in strangling a system. There's really no such thing as overkill with system RAM....,the more you have, the more it will be utilised and there are distinct advantages for having more than less.


There is truth here, but I would wonder why you would leave so much stuff on. If anything it will have an impact on CPU performance. Just save your work and shut down your programs when you game.

Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Originally Posted by Flogger23m
The only game that can "take advantage" of over 8GB of RAM is Batman Arkham Knight, and that is on Windows 10 only. For whatever reason it requires 12GB on Win 10. But remember, that game was so buggy at release it was pulled from sale for months. I think X-Plane might take advantage of it? Some obscure game does. But aside from that, you'd be hard pressed to need over 8GB of RAM for any game. 32GB is entirely overkill unless you're getting into professional video or audio editing. Or something else professional.


That is just plain incorrect.


I must be doing something magical with my PC, because I've had zero problems with 8GB of RAM in top of the line games for years. I've yet to see any benchmark site show a performance decrease with only 8GB of RAM.

Assassin's Creed Unity/Syndicate
Metro Last Light
GTAV
DCS World
ArmA 3
Battlefield 4
Battlefield 1
Rise of The Tomb Raider
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Mirror's Edge: Catalyst


Some examples of recent games I've tested with both 8GB and 16GB. Zero performance difference, zero load time difference. I've even played Squad fine with 8GB vs 16GB. Zero difference that I could tell although I never ran an FPS counter in that game. But it runs very smoothly.

If you're running out of RAM, especially at 16GB, close Photoshop, ect.!

#4356855 - 05/11/17 07:48 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
There is truth here, but I would wonder why you would leave so much stuff on. If anything it will have an impact on CPU performance. Just save your work and shut down your programs when you game.


Err nope. A background process that is loaded into RAM may be idle and not using CPU resources at all (or even if it is could be negligible)......however it still has an allocation of memory. It could be anything from drivers/peripherals, items in the sys tray etc.....I have 32GB RAM and I don't need to shut down programs when I start gaming, that's the point. The game will never be in a position it requires the system to go dumping data to a page file (which is exactly what you don't want happening). Stating that a game doesn't use all the available RAM is not even a quarter of the story......it's not all just about how much a game will take/utilise because even if you have 8GB (pretty much a standard these days) and you know the game/sim you're playing doesn't need more than 3GB, you still have Windows eating 3-4GB and another load of processes in the background eating whatever is there.....drivers/gaming peripherals/joystick mapping software....it all adds up and although Windows is pretty good at releasing RAM to give it to the prioritised apps that need it you're compromising on performance as soon as this happens.



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#4356863 - 05/11/17 09:33 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
Originally Posted by The Nephilim
I dont think that is correct Flogger..DCS is using a ton of Ram.. Do you play DCS Flogger, because I had 1 mission where the vram alone was almost 11GB Plususing 5GB for the gamealone.. so basically my vram on my vid casrd is 4GB so anything over that it uses RAM. I figure 8+5=13 ram. I just thought maybe Ram was like Hard drive space you need a certain percentage for headroom and such??

So since I was using so much Ram I thought adding 16 more would help stability and such..



I went from 8GB to 16GB a few months back and noticed zero performance change. A few updates ago DCS started experiencing a lot of stutters. It is worse on the wold map; NTTR is much smoother. This seems to be a DCS problem and likely won't change until the big graphical engine update is released. I even updated my GPU in that time frame and went from 4 to 8GB of VRAM and I still get the stutters. I have never played a game that was limited with 8GB of RAM. Even years ago, 2GB of RAM on Vista running Crysis showed zero performance/load time difference in my casual tests. And we all know Vista was a resource hog compared to Win 10.

Adding over 16GB of RAM for games is like adding in a 1000 watt PSU. It won't hurt, but a quality 550 watt PSU is more than enough for a PC with a top of the line GPU and CPU.

VRAM is entirely different. Games have been using this more and more, and increases in resolution/AA use more VRAM. If you're on 1440P I would get a GPU with 8GB of VRAM... 1080, I would get one with 6GB and no less.




Well if your video card only has 4gb of Vram where do you think it is getting it for the other 7gb it needs?? it takes it from your system memory.. yes it is different but if you don't have the vRam then it has to take it from somewhere.. I am not expecting some miracle cure but IF I am running border line on the amount of memory I am using I figured addidg a bit more for some cushion..

I could just save what I have now and put it towards a new card but theyse new 1080 are pretty spendy still and to get a Ti even more spendy..


Intel i7 10700K @ 4.8GHZ / ASRock Z590 Phantom Gaming 4AC Motherboard / Asus 1080GTX OC / SoundBlaster Z / Windows 10 64bit / Reverb G2 VR Gear. / Thrustmaster Cougar + MFD's / Buttkicker Simulation / Thrustmaster Cougar
#4356865 - 05/11/17 10:01 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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Originally Posted by Art_J
DCS 2.0 is already extremely VRAM hungry now and I think it's going to stay that way in the future. It also continuously loads lots of assets during flight, especially when using zoom function. That used to cause just too many damn annoying stutters on my older config, when the game ran off HDD, furiously exchanging data between HDD, RAM and VRAM. Buying SSD solved almost all of them, buying new card dealt with the rest.

16 GB of system RAM is enough for small-to medium scale single player missions. People report it's not always quite enough for mulitplayer and bigger scenarios though.

Might be proof of the poor coding than actually NEEDING that much RAM.

Originally Posted by Paradaz
You may be correct in stating that a particular game doesn't use more than 8-12GB RAM......however, it really depends what else is going on in your system and what else is taking available resources - its unrealistic for everyone to kill background processes to free up memory every time. A system with 8GB may only have 4Gb available at the point of launching a game and whilst some will be released where available there is no point in strangling a system. There's really no such thing as overkill with system RAM....,the more you have, the more it will be utilised and there are distinct advantages for having more than less.

My recent install of Win10AE (less than 2 months old) shows a steady 4.9GB RAM usage with only my background applications running. Had a few instances of "running out of RAM" but this was more due to a memory issue with Helios. Otherwise, I never really use more than 12GB. Of course, people who do graphics or video production will benefit from more RAM, but this is not the context of RAM usage as per the original post. 16GB kits are cheap and have been so for a while now, so no reason to be running 4GB or 8GB unless on a really tight budget. Adding another 16GB kit or swapping to a 32GB kit (2x 16GB sticks) --- go right ahead if that money is burning a hole in your pocket, but the improvement on performance will not come anywhere near justifying the cost for the additonal kit.

I would say that if you're using more than 5GB RAM on an 8GB RAM setup, it might be time to think about killing some background processes and preventing them from starting up.

Originally Posted by cichlidfan
That is just plain incorrect.

I love it how he just says "you're wrong" without even explaining why...

Originally Posted by Flogger23m
I must be doing something magical with my PC, because I've had zero problems with 8GB of RAM in top of the line games for years. I've yet to see any benchmark site show a performance decrease with only 8GB of RAM.

No, no, no, no. Flogger, you're just plain incorrect. This is truth and you'd best accept it because cichlidfan said so.

Originally Posted by Paradaz
Err nope. A background process that is loaded into RAM may be idle and not using CPU resources at all (or even if it is could be negligible)......however it still has an allocation of memory.

So something could be running in the background, not using resources, yet is ALLOCATED resources? So you don't need "space," but you're given it anyway, so the rest of the programs have to make-do with whatever space is left?

Originally Posted by The Nephilim
Well if your video card only has 4gb of Vram where do you think it is getting it for the other 7gb it needs?? it takes it from your system memory.. yes it is different but if you don't have the vRam then it has to take it from somewhere.. I am not expecting some miracle cure but IF I am running border line on the amount of memory I am using I figured addidg a bit more for some cushion..

I could just save what I have now and put it towards a new card but theyse new 1080 are pretty spendy still and to get a Ti even more spendy..

How did you determine that your game/program needed 13GB vRAM? What game is this? For a game to ask for 13GB vRAM, isn't that just silly? Maybe tone down the graphics settings a bit?


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#4356867 - 05/11/17 10:20 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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Originally Posted by The Nephilim
Originally Posted by Flogger23m
Originally Posted by The Nephilim
I dont think that is correct Flogger..DCS is using a ton of Ram.. Do you play DCS Flogger, because I had 1 mission where the vram alone was almost 11GB Plususing 5GB for the gamealone.. so basically my vram on my vid casrd is 4GB so anything over that it uses RAM. I figure 8+5=13 ram. I just thought maybe Ram was like Hard drive space you need a certain percentage for headroom and such??

So since I was using so much Ram I thought adding 16 more would help stability and such..



I went from 8GB to 16GB a few months back and noticed zero performance change. A few updates ago DCS started experiencing a lot of stutters. It is worse on the wold map; NTTR is much smoother. This seems to be a DCS problem and likely won't change until the big graphical engine update is released. I even updated my GPU in that time frame and went from 4 to 8GB of VRAM and I still get the stutters. I have never played a game that was limited with 8GB of RAM. Even years ago, 2GB of RAM on Vista running Crysis showed zero performance/load time difference in my casual tests. And we all know Vista was a resource hog compared to Win 10.

Adding over 16GB of RAM for games is like adding in a 1000 watt PSU. It won't hurt, but a quality 550 watt PSU is more than enough for a PC with a top of the line GPU and CPU.

VRAM is entirely different. Games have been using this more and more, and increases in resolution/AA use more VRAM. If you're on 1440P I would get a GPU with 8GB of VRAM... 1080, I would get one with 6GB and no less.




Well if your video card only has 4gb of Vram where do you think it is getting it for the other 7gb it needs?? it takes it from your system memory.. yes it is different but if you don't have the vRam then it has to take it from somewhere.. I am not expecting some miracle cure but IF I am running border line on the amount of memory I am using I figured addidg a bit more for some cushion..

I could just save what I have now and put it towards a new card but theyse new 1080 are pretty spendy still and to get a Ti even more spendy..


VRAM and RAM pools are separate. If you have 128GB of system RAM but 2GB of VRAM and you're running out of VRAM it won't make a single difference. You're thinking of consoles which run shared memory - but they work different from PCs. If you run out of VRAM you run out of VRAM and you'll see stuttering. If you really, really want to get an extra 16GB of RAM then do it. But if your purpose is gaming you're throwing money away. Put it into a new GPU or CPU.

http://www.techspot.com/article/1043-8gb-vs-16gb-ram/page3.html

http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2677-bf1-ram-benchmark-frequency-8gb-enough/page-2

8GB is fine. A few titles are coming close to it. That is the reason I recently went to 16GB myself. I'm sure in the next year or two some demanding games may come out that can benefit from it. But for the the vast majority, essentially everything, 8GB is fine. 16GB is future proof and sensible if you're getting a new PC. 32GB for gaming? Worthless. If you're running out of RAM, just shut off programs. No reason to run 15-20 production grade pieces of software in the background.


#4356876 - 05/11/17 10:48 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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I'd also say that the days of "game optimization" or "game booster" programs are gone. These programs were intially run before gaming and they would shut down background programs so as to free more resources for gaming... but with current-gen GPUs and CPUs, plus 8GB and 16GB being roughly norm for RAM, any sensibly-maintained system has no need for such programs. If you do need them, then you're the equivalent of those PC users who complain that their PC is slow, then the tech guy opens up a browser and finds this....

[Linked Image]



If DCS can run on a 5896x1080 resolution + 1920x1080 resolution setup on a Radeon 7970 GHz Edition 3GB card and 8GB RAM 4-5 years ago, why would it need more than that now?


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#4356878 - 05/11/17 10:55 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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Ice I never said 13GB 7+4 =11 where I am from.. I saw it on DCS own Frame Counter so maybe that is lying to me and that game ir really not using it..


The mission I ran and when I looked at the VRam usage it was 10,900.. so does DCS FRame Counter thingie lie then and it dont know so I can base what I need on nothing??
I


Either way I am done here thnx thos guys..

Last edited by The Nephilim; 05/11/17 10:56 PM.

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#4356881 - 05/11/17 11:02 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
LOL... 7+4... no idea why I typed in 13GB. Maybe best to watch Task Manager or Resource Monitor or MSI Afterburner or HWiNFO or some other program to determine resource usage.


- Ice
#4356887 - 05/11/17 11:31 PM Re: another 16GB RAM will it help? [Re: The Nephilim]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,168
Flogger23m Offline
Senior Member
Flogger23m  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,168
US
Originally Posted by - Ice
LOL... 7+4... no idea why I typed in 13GB. Maybe best to watch Task Manager or Resource Monitor or MSI Afterburner or HWiNFO or some other program to determine resource usage.

Originally Posted by The Nephilim
Ice I never said 13GB 7+4 =11 where I am from.. I saw it on DCS own Frame Counter so maybe that is lying to me and that game ir really not using it..


The mission I ran and when I looked at the VRam usage it was 10,900.. so does DCS FRame Counter thingie lie then and it dont know so I can base what I need on nothing??
I


Either way I am done here thnx thos guys..


If you have more RAM your system will use more of it. This doesn't necessarily mean it needs it, or it will make the program run better. Check the two links I provided above. To summarize, 16GB is plenty if you're playing games and your computer doesn't look like ICE's picture above. 16GB will be enough for the next 5 years easily.

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