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#4353905 - 04/27/17 01:28 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: F4UDash4]  
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DM Offline
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Prague
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by DM


I might suggest ArmA3.



I really enjoyed ArmA2 but ArmA3 with all of it's futuristic/fictional weaponry just leaves me cold. I'll take a Cobra or Huey any day.


RHS addons are your friend smile they're large downloads (typically in the order of ~2gb or so) but have more contemporary units, weapons and vehicles, to a very high quality in most cases (even higher than BIS assets in some cases). There's also the CUP addons that bring in ArmA2 units, weapons and vehicles.

It's also perfectly acceptable to stick to ArmA2 of course, if you already have it smile but the new features of A3 make it nice. (3D editor, advanced stance feature etc)


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
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#4353956 - 04/27/17 04:20 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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Something else I've noticed about the old flight sims is that they may not be considered very hardcore by today's standards, but the developer's hardcore mentality is very obvious. They were limited by technology but wanted and tried to make their sims as hardcore as possible, giving the impression they were dead serious about it. But you never get overwhelmed with complexity because it just isn't there (although they may have seemed complex at the time). Reading the Fleet Defender Manual about the developers visiting Oceana, those guys wanted it to be as realistic as they could make it (obvious of course as some of them [Elf] moved on to the hardcore Baltimore Jane's sims).

And yet, somewhere in this experience I'm supposedly going to see the Loch Ness Monster and hear radio comms of a flight that disappeared in WWII! biggrin

Very different than what I've seen of lite 'sims' today, where you don't get a sense that the developer really cared much about realism, just making a game.

Last edited by MarkG; 04/27/17 04:25 PM.


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4353962 - 04/27/17 04:38 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
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Originally Posted by MarkG
Something else I've noticed about the old flight sims is that they may not be considered very hardcore by today's standards, but the developer's hardcore mentality is very obvious. They were limited by technology but wanted and tried to make their sims as hardcore as possible, giving the impression they were dead serious about it. But you never get overwhelmed with complexity because it just isn't there (although they may have seemed complex at the time). Reading the Fleet Defender Manual about the developers visiting Oceana, those guys wanted it to be as realistic as they could make it (obvious of course as some of them [Elf] moved on to the hardcore Baltimore Jane's sims).

And yet, somewhere in this experience I'm supposedly going to see the Loch Ness Monster and hear radio comms of a flight that disappeared in WWII! biggrin

Very different than what I've seen of lite 'sims' today, where you don't get a sense that the developer really cared much about realism, just making a game.




You make some really good observations Mark. While many of the 90's flight sims were indeed not very "hardcore", they still managed to have that immersion factor that kept you drawn in and kept you returning to the game over and over. Falcon 3, Tornado and Flanker 2.0 I would consider to have been pretty hardcore though for that era. When you look at a game like "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe", you can clearly see that the simulation part was simplified but it also had a campaign aspect where you could run the German armaments industry and allocate squadrons to protect vital factories if you played on the German side while you could run the 8th USAAF strategic bombing campaign if you played on the US side. That added immensely to the fun and immersion of the game.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 04/27/17 04:38 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4353964 - 04/27/17 04:39 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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That reminds me, gotta also try to get in "The Final Countdown" this weekend, what a classic and with such an 80's vibe!

Speaking of which, the song (by Europe, no relation to the movie) was covered at the last Ringwalds show, also played during the Blue Angels performance (I think).



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4353967 - 04/27/17 04:46 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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Back in the day when my friends and family would want to know why I was so into combat flight simulators, I would always show them something from Thirdwires Strikefighter's series. Nice eye candy, easy to get up in the air and fight (if you put the setting right), and just fun game play. I was always surprised it wasn't the one that made this genre more popular. I still love Wings over Vietnam to this day.

#4353969 - 04/27/17 04:48 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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The Strike Fighters series would have been much more commercially successful had they been released during the 90's. By the time the first Strike Fighters title came out, the flight sim genre was already declining.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4353970 - 04/27/17 04:50 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: LB4LB]  
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Originally Posted by LB4LB
I still love Wings over Vietnam to this day.


+1

A buddy and I still play it multiplayer over Hamachi occasionally.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4353973 - 04/27/17 04:59 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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I love flying missions in an A-1 Skyraider. I think I got it off the Column5 site. The engine sounds great !

I play offline on my old XP box. I always got a kick out of the voice of that sounds like Slim Pickens . This video should get some nostalgia going.



Last edited by LB4LB; 04/27/17 05:03 PM.
#4353976 - 04/27/17 05:10 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: LB4LB]  
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Originally Posted by LB4LB
I love flying missions in an A-1 Skyraider. I think I got it off the Column5 site. The engine sounds great !

I play offline on my old XP box. I always got a kick out of the voice of that sounds like Slim Pickens . This video should get some nostalgia going.





AWESOME!!!!


Anyone else yelling at that F4 driver at about 1:10 to drop tanks and TURN?


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4353985 - 04/27/17 05:26 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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Video by "BeachAV8R".

Polak, DrKevDog, Cat, Kurt Plummer, Slikk, [Bill Hewett], names burned into my memory.

Holy Crap, Batman...it remains!...
http://www.bobsyouruncle.net/mcflyhome.htm

Last edited by MarkG; 04/27/17 05:47 PM. Reason: Added Bill


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4353987 - 04/27/17 05:30 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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Like a fine wine.

#4354006 - 04/27/17 08:27 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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MarkG,
I hope you have a good time with FD. I've seen in on Steam but I'm hoping like some other MPS titles it will make the transition to GOG. I remember having some amusing times with Stunt Island. I recall one mission where you fly around as a bird and you're trying to drop an egg on some guy's head. I don't think we had the Loch Ness monster but flying dragons are possible in some missions. One of the MPS F-15 Strike Eagles (I think II) had Godzilla. Even at that time we were mostly trying make them as realistic as possible but we were very limited by the technology and we also wanted to make sure that they'd be fun to play.

Elf

#4354035 - 04/27/17 10:21 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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Glad you saw this thread, Scott. smile

It may have been a couple of years or so ago, but I voted for GOG to release Fleet Defender Gold (the 600 MB[?] multimedia version) but it hasn't happened yet. frown

Last night I almost pulled the trigger on another MicroProse title called "Gunship - Rock the Bloc" [full box edition] but read that it wasn't really from them (from Hasbro, I think), glad I didn't do it after reading reviews (more on that when I come back, off to the movies...argh!).

Last edited by MarkG; 04/28/17 12:19 PM.


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4354060 - 04/27/17 11:45 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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I think problems started with IL-2. I loved IL-2 for flight. What I did not like was the lack of soul and personality the game itself had. They were sterile and dull in the interface, the menus, the campaigns... they needed life, like the old Microprose sims has, or Battle of Britain or SWOTL.

Falcon BMS is still excellent, and I love it. I have spent so many hours in the virtual jet I can hop into the F-16 like it is a car and take it for a spin. I can't do that with DCS. I have no incentive to invest a great deal of time in it, because there is no payoff due to there being no dynamic campaign to enjoy it with. So I spent a lot of time in other "simmy" games like Elite Dangerous, which is top notch and awesome, though in space. It was great while it lasted until the people started chickening out from PvP and going solo or private group mode, leaving the universe far more empty than a game of its caliber deserves.

Last weekend I spent a few hours playing Rise of Flight's single player dynamic campaign. It was a lot of fun, but unfortunately my dude got wasted in the end. It was his destiny, I guess. The game does have some soul to it, and reminds me of Red Baron from the DOS days.

#4354178 - 04/28/17 02:00 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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A few things to add (and needing some advice), no time right now, but please enjoy this awesomeness when you have a moment (someone did a very good job on this)...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SwgU42XSpw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkOsXNF_ZoM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M74yB9duRc



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnDlp_ebEk0


National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola...

Attached Files F14_Gateg.jpg


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4354181 - 04/28/17 02:04 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
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Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
I think problems started with IL-2. I loved IL-2 for flight. What I did not like was the lack of soul and personality the game itself had. They were sterile and dull in the interface, the menus, the campaigns... they needed life, like the old Microprose sims has, or Battle of Britain or SWOTL.




While I ultimately put in over 300 hours into IL-2 1946 I also largely agree with your assessment. What gave the game great longevity for me was the really fun and well implemented cooperative MP mode. I'd say close to half of the total hours I ended up putting into IL-2 came from my coop online sessions.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4354271 - 04/28/17 07:08 PM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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I'm far away from flight sims these days. I've been far away before, and came back to MSFS after several years away. Spent a few more years at it, more seriously than ever, then fell away again.

The biggest drawbacks for me presently in PC gaming:
1) Keybinds. They take forever, and still I will likely need to tweak them once I log some hours with the setup.

2) Control options. Starting out, I had a $15 joystick and played with that and the keyboard. Then I bought an X45 HOTAS. Somehow now I feel like anything *less* than the HOTAS is lacking. But at the same time, IMO, the HOTAS is 100% the problem in point 1 above... The dang keybinds. I almost think I'd be able to jump in and play faster if I went back to a $15 joystick and keyboard, like in the 1990s!

3) General lack of interest in most sims that are currently out there. I don't enjoy BVR and missile combat, for the most part. I did plenty in IL2 in past years, but don't have any draw toward that presently.

4) Waning interest in aircraft avionics and systems. I used to live for this, the thrill of learning the obscure about a particular aircraft's systems. Why has this faded?

5) Reduced interest in building and maintaining a gaming PC. Again, not sure why this has happened. I just don't take any pleasure or excitement in PC hardware anymore. That used to be a big chunk of the thrill, upgrading and checking performance in my games, being able to play something new.

6) Competing interests. This might actually be a bigger part of the situation than I give credit. But I do enjoy a lot more *other* things than I used to. And the vast majority of those things are easier to jump into, more entertaining, more captivating, and overall easier to enjoy, than PC gaming. Example: Board games. Yes, I am playing more of those lately. Some are simpler, with a small play group, others are the more dry and complex wargame types, played soitaire (sometimes for 10+ hours over several sessions). All they require is a table and my interest.

Sorry for the downer post there, but it's been on my mind. Mark, all the best with your resurgence in the hobby. I have Fleet Defender, it was probably the most fun I've had with a jet era military sim. It provides quite an immersive environment, once I got into it.


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#4354332 - 04/29/17 01:04 AM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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I'm kind of in the same boat as Chucky. I enjoyed Lock On/Flamming Cliffs for awhile but man these sims just lack the heart of the older stuff. There's definitely a resurgence of retro platformers and adventure games and such so maybe we'll see a return to retro-style sims with the emphasis on fun flying and colorful and immersive presentation. Stuff with good flight models and physics so that it looks good and is fun to fly and that has basic simmy elements that are must haves for me like manual landings, take offs, gear, flaps, basic working instruments but FUN and easy to get into and out of. Not only that there are so many games being made now that under the hood it has more current generation technology/physics/animations but are going back to the look and feel of older games. It may not happen but I'd prefer to have sims like Jane's come back, maybe a new Strike Fighters type of series in terms of ease, as well as another Crimson Skies, Strike Commander, Top Gun: Fire at Will and those types of sim games.


John 10:1-30
Romans 10:1-13

#4354355 - 04/29/17 04:57 AM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
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adlabs6, no problem with the downer post (and a very good post BTW, as are the others), my original post could also be considered a downer since I'm not promoting the current genre.

A few things I wanted to say, categorized...

++++++++++

Fleet Defender: I keep calling it "F-14 Fleet Defender" as I often call TAW "F-22 TAW", even though I know it's not technically correct (nor is "Hornet Korea" by Graphsim). I'll try to call it by it's proper name from now on. smile

I'm only 25 pages into the Manual so far, fascinating stuff, if the game really plays like the Manual explains it. For example, you want to rotate your wingman to give them all experience (points) as they improve over time. If you stick with a single pilot and lose him in a campaign, you're stuck with less experienced pilots who won't perform as well. Brilliant! I browsed the Manual before starting to read page-by-page and the sim is deeper than I expected, but I don't believe I'll be overwhelmed with it, it'll just take longer to learn it and that's ok.

Nice that this kind of supplementary info is still out there (saved, printed and added to my FD 3-ring binder), not sure if it's still needed yet (and shows some depth of avionics)...
http://www.ibiblio.org/GameBytes/issue18/misc/f-14.html

Two of may favorite videos so far...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDWYutpktmw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdA2aUlMa1Y

I plan to make with this sim, my very first comprehensive AARs.

Running silky smooth on my older Win7 laptop (i3 CPU M330@2.13GHz 2.13GHz / 4GB Ram) but only after using a slightly modified DOSBox Config I borrowed from Subwar 2050 (GOG, Particle Systems/Microprose), also fixing Tornado (my next sim). Only issue is with my Logitech Wingman Extreme 3D Pro, the twist rudder and throttle are swapped in FD's joystick calibration. Tried some settings in DOSBox (swap34= [swaps 3rd and 4th axis]), didn't help. I'll use the keyboard [for rudder and throttle] until I find a solution.

++++++++++

One more box: I almost purchased a lemon, if just for one more time in my life, to have a heavy flight sim box shipped to my home...
http://www.cdaccess.com/html/pc/gunship.htm

The box says "MICROPROSE", but I don't recognize any of the developer's names and I read somewhere that this title is not a true successor to Gunship/GS2000, rather arcade fluff from Hasbro.

Oh well, I have a few more to choose from (although some are sold out)...
http://www.cdaccess.com/html/pc/48mil.htm

Including...
http://www.cdaccess.com/html/pc/f14gold.htm

Bah! mad I've bought a bunch of boxes from these guys several years ago, and even then I wondered if I would really get that big heavy box. I did (and new), and I assume this place is still legit (although it really is strange, looking so dated).

Anyway, looking over this selection of games again...
http://www.cdaccess.com/html/pc/48mil.htm

...which would you choose (something with a thick manual, maybe even additional multimedia)?

++++++++++

Another Hornet: I was digging into Falcon Gold (from GOG) and found a flyable Hornet in there (also a MiG-29)! The hits just keep on coming, baby! biggrin

Last edited by MarkG; 04/29/17 06:54 PM.


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4354361 - 04/29/17 07:25 AM Re: Getting my mojo back [Re: MarkG]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,242
Coot Offline
Pilgrim
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These United States of America
What is that website? Is it selling new old stock so that it comes packed with everything? Jane's titles always had the nice, thick small binder manuals. I don't have my boxes unfortunately but I have the games and all the manuals and stuff. I kick myself now but for some reason I gave away my iMagic F-22 sim. That one had a really nice cold war vibe and clickable switches and it had awesome materials. To be honest I can't remember what the manual looked like(I think it was smaller and thinner than Jane's stuff) but it included a HUGE fold out map of all of Italy as I recall....nope I think it was Bosnia maybe, I can't remember.

Combat Flight Simulator 2 also had a nice manual. I think it had little war time comic type picture inserts.

Last edited by Coot; 04/29/17 07:31 AM.

John 10:1-30
Romans 10:1-13

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