Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#4351135 - 04/14/17 04:47 PM SALE!!! Buy something!  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 290
Textanker Offline
Member
Textanker  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 290
Houston
Looks like 40% off.


Think Strategically, Move Tactically
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4351141 - 04/14/17 05:00 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
leaf_on_the_wind Offline
Member
leaf_on_the_wind  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
Just a suggestion

Avoid:
WW2 asset pack ..... we shouldnt be paying for this any way, it should be part of core game or even normandy map
The hawk , its utter dog poop
C101, unfinished
Gazelle, flight model is very arcade


Last edited by leaf_on_the_wind; 04/14/17 10:21 PM.


Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4351154 - 04/14/17 05:58 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Sale after sale after sale after sale.

Last week it was bundles for A-10A/Su-25/Su-27/F-15C, before that was Viggen, before that was the F-5/FC3, before that was F-5/CA, then a lull of two weeks, then there was the Fatherland sale... Really makes no sense buying a full-price module anymore as it'll be on sale before your next trip to the bathroom.

I was initially excited by today's newsletter seeing as there was a Hornet on the first picture, sadly there was nothing on the newsletter about the Hornet. Tease!


- Ice
#4351159 - 04/14/17 06:09 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: - Ice]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
cichlidfan Offline
Member
cichlidfan  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
Woodbridge, VA, USA
Originally Posted by - Ice
I was initially excited by today's newsletter seeing as there was a Hornet on the first picture, sadly there was nothing on the newsletter about the Hornet. Tease!


There won't be any hornet news until after Normandy has been released to the public.


ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1
#4351169 - 04/14/17 06:39 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: - Ice]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,168
Flogger23m Offline
Senior Member
Flogger23m  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,168
US
Originally Posted by - Ice
Sale after sale after sale after sale.

Last week it was bundles for A-10A/Su-25/Su-27/F-15C, before that was Viggen, before that was the F-5/FC3, before that was F-5/CA, then a lull of two weeks, then there was the Fatherland sale... Really makes no sense buying a full-price module anymore as it'll be on sale before your next trip to the bathroom.

I was initially excited by today's newsletter seeing as there was a Hornet on the first picture, sadly there was nothing on the newsletter about the Hornet. Tease!


Ironically they won't do big sales anymore (75% off and the like) but keep pumping out a lot of these. I'd rather have less frequent sales, but have older modules that have been out a few years drop lower in price. I think they were happy with FC3 sales and figured bundles would be the best way to sell a lot of things, without realizing what made the FC3 bundle so popular. Namely, the aircraft choices and overall price. Now to get the best deals you're straddled with buying a module or two we either own or have almost no interest in.

The only bundle I'd consider buying at the moment would be a Mirage 2000C + NTTR bundle. Not that I wouldn't be interested in the other planes, but at the prices their asking I am fine without them.

#4351177 - 04/14/17 07:24 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd Offline
Member
Johnny_Redd  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Anyone that's still going to buy their stuff probably already owns everything. The products have already hit saturation point in the community. Desperate times and all that. Here's an idea to increase sales and interest, treat your already existing customers with the respect they deserve.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4351182 - 04/14/17 07:41 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,569
Mr_Blastman Offline
Hotshot
Mr_Blastman  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,569
Atlanta, GA
I wish the game had a dynamic campaign like Falcon BMS. I'd be compelled to buy everything if it did...

#4351244 - 04/15/17 07:30 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by cichlidfan
There won't be any hornet news until after Normandy has been released to the public.

Yeah, but let's go ahead and put a Hornet on the first picture of the newsletter! That's a very good idea!! duh

Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd
Anyone that's still going to buy their stuff probably already owns everything. The products have already hit saturation point in the community. Desperate times and all that. Here's an idea to increase sales and interest, treat your already existing customers with the respect they deserve.

Probably trying to get people who are "on the fence" to finally commit and buy a module.... but they probably don't realize the reasons why those people are "on the fence" in the first place.

Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
I wish the game had a dynamic campaign like Falcon BMS. I'd be compelled to buy everything if it did...

popcorn


- Ice
#4351257 - 04/15/17 10:12 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 871
Winfield Offline
model citizen
Winfield  Offline
model citizen
Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 871
QLD
personally, I only buy modules when sales are held,

The reason behind this is the conversion between USD and AUD.

$60 USD module equates to $79.20 AUD

on sale, a $49 USD module is $64.68 AUD

I may lose out on bonus points but it's like being locked into a term savings account with a bank......Pay heaps up font to gain on "interest" or in his case "Bonus Points" which can only be spent "withdrawn" basically twice a year

Bonus points are pretty much worthless when paying full price in USD compared to paying in AUD.

#4351304 - 04/15/17 03:53 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Winfield]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by Winfield
personally, I only buy modules when sales are held,

And so you are the target audience for the current marketing ploy of ED. smile


- Ice
#4351334 - 04/15/17 06:21 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,599
Frederf Offline
Member
Frederf  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,599
The deep sales were probably making the full price seem like punishment for not waiting and they found people only really bought during them. Lesser sales make it less a "don't be a dummy, wait for a sale" effect on the standard price so it's a near equal balance of now vs. slightly cheaper. That's entirely normal pricing as is slowly reducing the price over time to get the customers who will pay the highest at each stage.

The points thing is pretty awful though.

#4351460 - 04/16/17 07:05 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
leaf_on_the_wind Offline
Member
leaf_on_the_wind  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
Another week ..... another sale

Most of the people that have been around dcs for years has most of the stuff we want already bought



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4351486 - 04/16/17 09:50 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Nate Offline
Member
Nate  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Dublin, Ireland
Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind
Another week ..... another sale

Most of the people that have been around dcs for years has most of the stuff we want already bought


Are you one of them?

Nate

#4351487 - 04/16/17 09:55 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,922
Paradaz Offline
Senior Member
Paradaz  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,922
UK
I am....and they sit there in beta, unfinished, virtually unplayed and unable to gift them to anyone else. Bravo.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4351489 - 04/16/17 09:57 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
leaf_on_the_wind Offline
Member
leaf_on_the_wind  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by Nate
Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind
Another week ..... another sale

Most of the people that have been around dcs for years has most of the stuff we want already bought


Are you one of them?

Nate



Yes I am one of the people who doesn't buy half finished sh!te anymore

Last edited by leaf_on_the_wind; 04/16/17 09:58 PM.


Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4351495 - 04/16/17 10:39 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Nate Offline
Member
Nate  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Dublin, Ireland
Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind
Yes I am one of the people who doesn't buy half finished sh!te anymore


Good for you!

I look forward to you telling us about the next
"half finished shi!te" you don't buy.

Nate

#4351536 - 04/17/17 06:43 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 207
bkthunder Offline
Member
bkthunder  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 207
List of products i regret buying, in order of regretfulness:

1: MiG-21
2: P-51 (payed $40 for it when it came out...then they gave it for free...)
3: Nevada
4: UH-1


products I don't regret buying:

A-10C
M2000
Ka-50
Flaming Cliffs 3
F-5
Spitfire
L-39

The best deal I ever made:

Mi-8 bought on sale for something like $8, 3 or 4 years ago (I think).
Please note, the Mi-8 reached a very good state of completion recently, but it took literally YEARS.
Now it's one of the finest modules IMO. But I would've been completely pissed off had I paid full price back then.

Same goes for the F-86.

Mig-15 is also very good but never fly it.



I don't own anything else.

Almost all of these, with very few exceptions, were bought on sales.
My level of unsatisfaction is a direct connection between the price I paid, and the level of quality / completeness of the module.

#4351557 - 04/17/17 09:42 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
leaf_on_the_wind Offline
Member
leaf_on_the_wind  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by Nate
Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind
Yes I am one of the people who doesn't buy half finished sh!te anymore


Good for you!

I look forward to you telling us about the next
"half finished shi!te" you don't buy.

Nate



I also look forward to the minions of ED coming into that thread with nothing to contribute as usual ....



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4351558 - 04/17/17 10:06 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 871
Winfield Offline
model citizen
Winfield  Offline
model citizen
Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 871
QLD
Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind
I also look forward to the minions of ED coming into that thread with nothing to contribute as usual ....


couldn't agree more really.

seems that any comment against the grain attracts the attention of those under the ED spell and they feel the need to respond with nothing other than wasted bandwidth.

I sit back....popcorn at the ready.

#4351602 - 04/17/17 02:00 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by Nate
Good for you!

I look forward to you telling us about the next
"half finished shi!te" you don't buy.

Nate

Same here! Please tell us about all the "half finished sh!te" you don't buy!

God knows nobody can come here and talk about a "completely finished sh!te" that everyone should buy... if we wait for that, this forum would be dead. smile


- Ice
#4353603 - 04/26/17 12:08 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
I wish the game had a dynamic campaign like Falcon BMS. I'd be compelled to buy everything if it did...


But didn't you learn by now that Dynamic Campaigns are teh hard to do? I thought the fanboi firebrigade of ED told you already enough times!

From the top of my head, the only flightsims so far with Dynamic Campaigns were:

F-19 Stealth Fighter (Microprose, 1988)
Their Finest Hour (Lucas Arts, 1989)
Red Baron (Sierra, 1990)
Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (Lucas Arts, 1991)
Gunship 2000 (Microprose, 1991)
Aces of the Pacific (Sierra, 1992)
AV 8 B Harrier Assault (Domark, 1992)
F-15 Strike Eagle III (Microprose, 1993)
Aces over Europe (Sierra, 1993)
Falcon 3.0 (Spectrum Holobyte / Microprose, 1993)
Tornado (Digital Integration, 1993)
1942 The Pacific Air War (Microprose, 1994)
Eurofighter 2000 (Digital Image Design, 1995)
Navy Strike (Empire Interactive, 1995)
Flying Corps (Rowan Software, 1996)
Longbow 2 (Jane's Combat Simulations, 1997)
iF-22 (Interactive Magic, 1997)
Red Baron 2 (Sierra, 1998)
iF-18 Carrier Strike Fighter (Interactive Magic, 1998)
Total Air War (Digital Image Design, 1998)
European Air War (Microprose, 1998)
Falcon 4.0 (Microprose, 1998)
Enemy Engaged: Apache vs Havoc (Razorworks, 1998)
Mig Alley (Rowan Software, 1999)
B-17 II The Mighty Eighth (Microprose, 2000)
Enemy Engaged: Comanche vs Hokum (Razorworks, 2000)
Battle of Britain (Rowan Software, 2000)
IL2 Forgotten Battles (1C Company, 2003)
Pacific Fighters (1C Company, 2006)
Rise of Flight (777, 2009)
Wings: Over Flanders Fields (OBD Software, 2013)

So as you can see, it is impossible. Only Falcon 4 did it and the fools went under for it, hahaha! So be glad that ED will sell you scripted Mission Packs done by other people as affordable DLC rather than providing you with an immersive Career mode where you'll never fly the same mission twice.
Aren't they generous.

Lol, I keep editing this post because the list is so short I keep forgetting items.


Last edited by heartc; 04/26/17 04:28 PM.
#4353692 - 04/26/17 05:12 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 207
bkthunder Offline
Member
bkthunder  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 207
Exactly, having a DC in DCS not only is impossible, it's also a very bad idea because then a lot of mission-making jobs would be lost. The social impact would be terrible.

#4353726 - 04/26/17 07:10 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
Hehehe. And you know what's funny? Many of those sims listed also had a Full Mission Builder IN ADDITION to their campaign system. It was seen as an added bonus, not as a means for people to build their own content like it is today because the developer didn't provide any, other than just a bunch of scripted single missions called "campaign" because someone wrote a "story" in a .txt file lol! The Full Mission Builder was added for people who wanted to play out specific scenarios or make special challenges and distribute them over floppies or the net. It was not the meat of the game. Even more had - in addition or in absence of a Full Mission Builder - a Quick Mission Builder / Instant Action and scripted single / training missions on top of the campaign, too.
Take 1942 The Pacific Air War as an example. It had:

- Scripted Single Missions / Historic Missions
- A career mode with generated missions, Squadron and Pilot record tracking.
- A Strategic mode where you commanded carrier fleets in Pacific Campaigns, either with historical or randomized set up and positions. Example: Provide air cover for the invasion Fleet to Port Moresby. Send out scouts to search for the enemy carriers. Order an Airstrike against the identified fleet and jump into the cockpit of either the fighter escort or the torpedo / dive bombers.
- A replay mode that you could edit professionally in game, with free camera positions, rewind, even tackling a specific frame by number, etc, making cinematic movies. And it actually worked.
- Fly as gunner in a Torpedo / Dive Bomber

Or as an example for Jetsims: Tornado. It had:

- Instant Action
- Scripted Single Missions / Training
- A campaign mode where you only flew a single Tornado, not having to worry about anything else
- A campaign mode where you planned missions for your Tornado flight
- A campaign mode where you were the Squadron commander and planned missions for all the Tornadoes, both IDS and ADV versions. Set up CAP, plan Strike Missions against enemy airfields, AD sites, Army, POL, etc. Check out the theater map in recon mode and see the craters your bomblets put on the enemy runway.

Another example: Domark's Harrier:

- Single / Training Missions yada yada, you get the point. Don't even need to mention it, that was the bare minimum to be expected.
- A campaign mode where you had to invade an enemy island. You could plan the whole ground war yourself, or load up a default ground war attack plan. Plan the Harrier missions, too. Then jump into your Harrier and blow #%&*$# up in support of that ground war plan. That thing ran in real time even when you were back home on your carrier, checking your stores supply / air wing status.

All of that usually packed in immersive menus / art, with great music on top etc, oh, and a 100+ page hard copy manual, thank you very much.

Now you get 10 or 20 scripted missions called a "campaign", presented with an Excel style menu and dull music. Talking about manuals is probably moot at this point. And when you confront them with it (you know, their game having NO GAMEPLAY), you have 20 fanbois jumping out of the woodwork saying IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!1! Very many thanks to those, you know who you are. Your shilling is responsible for DCS still being in such a dull state today. What's funny is that most of the time, those people are the "I ONLY FLY ONLINE" Air Quakers, who couldn't care less about offline gameplay and are only shilling because they see their love affair being attacked.



#4353730 - 04/26/17 07:31 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: heartc]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
Mission Planning and Immersion in Digital Integration's Tornado:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvyBrX1eK4I

Mission Planning and Immersion in Eagle Dynamic's LOMAC / FC / BS / FC2 / BS 2 / A-10 / DCS World:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdSIZiEUxjY

And btw., it's not just about immersion. It's about realism, too - and in a big way. It matters little that the squelch button on the radio is modelled when at the same time you are CLAIRVOYANT. You can play each mission exactly ONE time, after that you are the equivalent of a CLAIRVOYANT pilot. That's kinda, hm, I dunno, a biggie. It changes completely how you plan and fly a mission. My, how the militaries iRL would love THAT. I bet ya they would give up on their latest and greatest smart bombs if they could have THAT instead. And don't anyone give me "b-but you can put random elements in the mission". First, only very few missions have that, and even then, you are still clairvoyant for the most part. To make matters worse, ED screwed up even that part of the Mission Builder. The most basic and simple function any Mission Builder should have are not there, like, uhm, a random placement radius for units and waypoints?? No, instead you have to write scripts or set logic functions to emulate such basic functions in an ass-backwards way. The incompetence is unbelievable.

#4353743 - 04/26/17 08:15 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 207
bkthunder Offline
Member
bkthunder  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 207
That second video is spot on!

#4353744 - 04/26/17 08:19 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
biggrin

#4353991 - 04/27/17 05:44 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
Oh man, I'm in Nostalgia mode now again. Flightsims back then were really a WORK OF ART. I know many of you guys are coming from the same angle as I do and know many of the old sims and Golden Days, but OTOH there are many noobs i.e. young people now joining our ranks, too, who would not have witnessed the glory days, so to those - and the olds hands, for old times sake - take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBKVKCY-Sr0
(Falcon 3.0)

And this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwZUJLXPvBs
(Tornado)

I'm talking about the music (and the general art direction).

Here is a "menu system" of a civilian flightsim back then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN3CU0V1QEY **

I will not claim that this makes or breaks a flightsim, but it shows how masterful and complete flightsim developement was back then, and how much thought and heart went into their work. Now compare that with your Excel sheet menus and uninspired scripted mission bull**** that is presented to you now these days, while asking for 70 bucks, which is probably like 140+ in the old days when corrected for inflation and relatively declining wages. And we're not even talking about the several hundred pages thick hard copy manual you got with a hardcore flightsim back then, which was also packed with interesting history synopses etc. Heck, for that kind of manual alone you would have to pay somewhat around 30 bucks today.

Moral of the story: You are getting much less today for a lot more money than back then. And that's true on all fronts, really. Think about that. And no, the answer is not "Deal with it" like the shills will claim. At least not in the manner they mean. The answer is not communism either, far from it. The answer is to seek out the gangster, the one who is feeding you the bull$hit while claiming "Everything's fine - hey, was that a micro-aggression I was feeling from you?" The one who will cry out in pain as he strikes you.
You gota cut through the bull$hit and get to the heart of the maggot. Like these glorious bastards did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1U73vUEbb4 . And then fly to the stars. I'm 100% serious, btw. and I'm mostly talking to you young folks now, because most of the old farts are already hardwired in the BS and their cause is lost, they have succumbed to the bull$hit by now. But for you, your future lies in your hands. Don't hand it over to the con artists like the old farts did. Don't join them in their blame game when they call you out for imaginary crimes they themselves invented for the sole purpose of constricting you, when all you do is act out of your God given rights and instinct. Instead, call them out on their bull$hit scheme and destroy them, and never apologize. For there is zero blame on you. Only much responsibility. For you, and for your glorious future. Choose between that, or a zombie like existence with bull$hit raining down on your head 24/7, ad infinitum. Read Orwell's 1984, if you'll read anything at all.


**It also had a KICK ASS flight model, unrivaled for a long time until the very latest sims like DCS / CLOD / ROF.
FSX still couldn't hold its water, and even XPlane is missing out on some of it, like ground handling in windy conditions etc. although their approach with simulating the actual airflow over the airplane surfaces in real time is very similar.
Here is a promo video of Flight Unlimited (1), and even though it was promotional material, what the guy says was actually true:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y1p0hgtfp4

#4354003 - 04/27/17 08:12 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Art_J Offline
Member
Art_J  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Warsaw, Poland
And yet, all from the list above except 777 and 1C are out of business... Even 777's recent revival of idea of Dynamic Campaigns is only result of community (Pat Wilson) doing the job they should've done in the first place.

I agree with You about superior single player content of the old flight sims (racing sims as well, my second favourite PC gaming genre, suffering from the very same problems nowadays), but seriously - the "answer" You give sounds borderline delusional. Too much rose-tinted-glasses nostalgia, man wink.

I myself would love to see a full blown successor of my beloved "Aces of the Pacific" from Sierra, but I know it's never going to happen, at least not in that scale. Uh, not even holding my breath for planned 777's "Battle of Midway" project, as this one will start only IF "Battle of Kuban" brings enough revenue.

#4354008 - 04/27/17 08:41 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
But the point is that they are out of business NOT because they did a good job on art direction and gameplay, but because the gaming market went mainstream and shooters for the retarded masses are indeed more easy to make, so for a broad mass market appeal you will indeed get a better ROI with shooters. But by now, we have the situation that all the retarded main stream market is well established and there are plenty of niche markets to tackle, only that those niche market developers are well aware of their limited competition so that they see little reason to put in more effort as long as their niche market is "thankful" for getting any product at all. So the point is, it's up TO YOU guys to DEMAND $hit, and any naysayer and fanboi that is sucking up the bull$hit and making up excuses only serves to maintain the relatively sub-par status quo.

And my answer was targetted onto a field much larger than flightsims, in which flightsim devs do not even register as a culprit, but merely act as a symptom. Yet, I will call out bull$hit when I see it, especially when it is sold to me on a golden plate.

#4354020 - 04/27/17 09:18 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Art_J]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd Offline
Member
Johnny_Redd  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Originally Posted by Art_J
Uh, not even holding my breath for planned 777's "Battle of Midway" project, as this one will start only IF "Battle of Kuban" brings enough revenue.

Yeah I read that. Not a great sales pitch if you ask me. Why buy a theatre you're not interested in (Kuban) in the hope that enough folk buy Kuban so you can get midway? There's a lot of talk on the BoS forums about Midway and the pacific. Being told it may not happen, if folk who already own everything don't buy more, seems desperate to me. Why buy Kuban if the franchise is on life support if you're tired of the eastern front? Seems stupid to me


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4354041 - 04/27/17 10:35 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Johnny_Redd]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Ouch!! heartc's burn is too much! Unfortunately, I am too young to have played all those other sims...


Originally Posted by Art_J
And yet, all from the list above except 777 and 1C are out of business... Even 777's recent revival of idea of Dynamic Campaigns is only result of community (Pat Wilson) doing the job they should've done in the first place.

Yeah, but then you start to see that "making a DC was the downfall of Falcon" excuse starts to lose steam....
ED made a poll and having a DC won... what are they doing about that info? What are they doing when their market blatantly tells them what they want? Zilch.


Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd
Originally Posted by Art_J
Uh, not even holding my breath for planned 777's "Battle of Midway" project, as this one will start only IF "Battle of Kuban" brings enough revenue.

Yeah I read that. Not a great sales pitch if you ask me. Why buy a theatre you're not interested in (Kuban) in the hope that enough folk buy Kuban so you can get midway? There's a lot of talk on the BoS forums about Midway and the pacific. Being told it may not happen, if folk who already own everything don't buy more, seems desperate to me. Why buy Kuban if the franchise is on life support if you're tired of the eastern front? Seems stupid to me

Maybe they're trying out this awesome business model that ED is on?
Everyone wants 2.5, so let's do Normandy first. And these campaigns.


- Ice
#4354067 - 04/28/17 12:11 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
And btw., since I feel like my point would be incomplete if I wouldn't let the Master Pete Bonanni himself speak up as an example of the level of sophistication you got back then when you were involved in the flightsim market either as a dev, or as a customer:

So, with all credits to the original devs and the man himself (and the Youtuber), I present to you, THE ART OF THE KILL, by Pete Bonanni, who is using Falcon 3.0 for a presentation of Basic Fighter Maneuvers, in front of what I gather to be one of the first "Online" Squads:

https://youtu.be/pzdyJdOUYRQ?t=11

I also have a vid somewhere where the Jane's team was joining a briefing for an A-10 sortie when they were developing their "Jane's A-10" which unfortunately never saw the light of day, since it was about to come up just around the corner when the PC
market was swallowed up in retarded main stream crap and Electronic Arts decided to pull the plug on Jane's Combat Simulations. I will see if I can dig it up.

#4354069 - 04/28/17 12:17 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
Hehehe, hey Ice, take heart: My talk is not meant to burn you, but to rekindle the fire lost... smile

#4354071 - 04/28/17 12:28 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: heartc]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by heartc

I also have a vid somewhere where the Jane's team was joining a briefing for an A-10 sortie when they were developing their "Jane's A-10" which unfortunately never saw the light of day, since it was about to come up just around the corner when the PC
market was swallowed up in retarded mainstream crap and Electronic Arts decided to pull the plug on Jane's Combat Simulations. I will see if I can dig it up.


Hmm, no, couldn't find it. I only have it on my HD somewhere, but I have no youtube account or anything to upload it to. Also can't quite remember where I downloaded it from, it was some nostalgia website that paid tribute to the Jane's sims. So, whatever. It was interesting in so far as the briefing guy (well, it was actually a woman...make of that what you will - for my part, I call bull$hit on it) was briefing the A-10 guys on their attack plan and the Jane's team was filming it to make yet another amazing flightsim that however never came to be, unfortunately.

#4354105 - 04/28/17 03:22 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
Force10 Offline
I'm just a
Force10  Offline
I'm just a
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
CA
Man...this thread went off the rails quick.

Heartc...the topic of flight sims and their development is controversial enough without getting into morality, politics, race, gender etc.

I'm going to lock the thread temporarily and do some cleanup. I will open it back up tomorrow...try to stay on topic so the thread can
stay open and not disappear into the bowels of SimHQ.

//closed


Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard
Windows 7 64 bit Home edition
Intel I5 4670K @ 4.4 ghz
16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory
EVGA GTX 970 Superclocked 4gb Video Card
Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive)
Samsung 840 1TB SSD
Onboard Realtek sound
______________________________________________________

Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"



#4354196 - 04/28/17 03:07 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
Force10 Offline
I'm just a
Force10  Offline
I'm just a
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
CA
Thread back open...stay on topic please.


Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard
Windows 7 64 bit Home edition
Intel I5 4670K @ 4.4 ghz
16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory
EVGA GTX 970 Superclocked 4gb Video Card
Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive)
Samsung 840 1TB SSD
Onboard Realtek sound
______________________________________________________

Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"



#4354254 - 04/28/17 06:16 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: heartc]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by heartc
Hehehe, hey Ice, take heart: My talk is not meant to burn you, but to rekindle the fire lost... smile

Oh, I invite you to read my "history" on this sub-forum and realize that I was not burned by that at all wink


- Ice
#4355296 - 05/04/17 12:29 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
Tokyo, Japan
I'm not a minion of ED but I find it crazy that anyone could dislike the UH-1. It is a fantastic aircraft and is IMO a very good representation of the real thing. Not perfect but it's the best Huey that exists in any simulation available to the general public, and if you're not having fun flying it I think you must be impossible to please.

I recently bought the Gazelle and am looking forward to trying it out once I have a bit more time. I have heard the FM is not quite there yet, but as others have mentioned the MI-8 also started out rough but it has become one of the real jewels of the DCS collection. The MI-8 is currently my favorite DCS module. I fly the bejeezus out of it and enjoy doing insanely overweight landings at altitudes far too high for comfort. How is that not fun?

I think buying "in production" or "pre-release" versions is just a gamble people need to learn to live with. You buy the module with the knowledge and expectation that it could be crap. I bought the Mirage 2000 when it first came out and was quickly disappointed with its ridiculous ground handling (Remember the Reliant Robin from Mr. Bean always tipping over?) but they gradually worked out the kinks, fixed the textures, and now it is a great aircraft and it is just getting better and better.

Give the developers time to patch up the holes and in the meantime, play the hell out of what you've got. Try not to take yourself so seriously. Support developers with your purchases and if the developers completely abandon a project, never buy from them again.
If you don't believe in the pre-release purchase model, just don't buy the module and your problems are solved. Go spend the $40 on something else. You can buy a steak dinner for that price and it'll last you about an hour or two, then you'll literally flush it out the toilet the next day. I've been playing with my Huey which I bought for the same money or less, for probably more than 500 hours over the years.

I suppose that a few DCS modules may have been abandoned (C101 and Hawk?) but the other modules seem to have fairly frequent updates to the functionality. Sometimes changes in DCS break the modules but followup patches usually get issued within hours or days.

#4355305 - 05/04/17 12:55 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,804
ST0RM Offline
Senior Member
ST0RM  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,804
Ten Mile, Tn
Despite the many delays and on going issues that frustrate the crap out of me at times, DCS fills a niche that I cant get from other sims.

And I agree, the Huey is a pretty solid performer. I just wish multicrew would be added. As for the Hippo, I cant wrap my head around the autopilot and trimming system. But it's gorgeous too.

#4355379 - 05/04/17 06:24 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Art_J Offline
Member
Art_J  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Warsaw, Poland
Mind you, "SimHQ's-anti-ED-guerillas" don't have the problem with quality of Huey / Mi-8 or other relatively polished DCS modules. They do have a problem with limited gameplay potential of the core sim when you already know the aircraft and its systems inside out, but with linear, heavily scripted campaigns of limited replay value (obviously) you start thinking "what to do with this aircraft next"? Especially when someone's strictly an offline-player. Any dynamic campaign functionality would help with that issue.

I still enjoy flying DCS crates just for the sake of flying, but I understand bored combat veterans over here biggrin.

#4355411 - 05/04/17 09:34 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Why did you expect anyone to "have a problem with polished DCS modules"?? duh

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Art_J
I still enjoy flying DCS crates just for the sake of flying

If that's the case, what's the difference between DCS and FSX/P3D/XP10/XP11?? Those other sims also give you the "just for the sake of flying" feeling on a MUCH BIGGER MAP with a better selection of "crates" for the fraction of the price DCS is asking for.

Last edited by - Ice; 05/04/17 10:53 PM.

- Ice
#4355465 - 05/05/17 09:28 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
Tokyo, Japan
The solution to the lack of a dynamic campaign is to get creative with the mission editor. A dynamic campaign is nice, I agree, but it's probably not going to happen.

On the other hand, very replayable missions can be created rather simply in the mission editor, and though I am not a mission editor expert, I imagine that with some scripting a campaign could be created with dozens of different possibilities depending on what happened in past missions. Most mission editors in any simulator created in the past 15 years have this ability.

Those people who feel so upset about the lack of a dynamic campaign should take charge and learn to use scripting and release a freeware campaign to put payware developers to shame. I would love to see this as I tend to play single player offline, as Japan generally has high pings to people in the US or Europe.

The feeling of flight in DCS is far better than almost any other simulator. The only thing that even comes close in my experience is the AccuSim series of aircraft and the Majestic Dash-8 Q400. Those fly like the real deal. Almost everything else is a train with wings in FSX. X-Plane is a little better but not quite. Accusim and Majestic got it right. DCS got it right too. The MiG-21 is wonderful.

I am still of the opinion that if you don't know how to operate the navigation instruments in whatever aircraft you're flying, you don't have much right to complain about lack of functionality of XYZ weapons system, and surely no right to complain about the map size. If you don't even know where you are on a small map like Nevada or Georgia, how can you worry about what's going on outside those areas.

This is one region where DCS falls flat on its face - the navigation systems have been ignored in the core of DCS, and so unfortunately the navigation systems of each module have also suffered. A lot of things like radionavigation are far oversimplified or just plain don't work correctly in DCS, that's too bad considering the high fidelity in other areas. Some fixes or additions should be (and are) easy to implement but I suppose they're at the bottom of the list. None of the airfields in DCS have ILS backcourses, the ILS bars move in the wrong manner in some aircraft, ADF equipment is very sparse (possibly a module choice, but I think most aircraft developed in the 60's-90's would have it).

#4355498 - 05/05/17 12:25 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,922
Paradaz Offline
Senior Member
Paradaz  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,922
UK
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Most mission editors in any simulator created in the past 15 years have this ability.


But as we're all aware, ED don't operate like any other developer and because some facets of the sim has no current competition they think they can get away with as little effort as possible whilst taking customer's money under the guise of an alpha/beta that will get more effort put into it after the payment is taken. As we all know in many cases that isn't really the case and ED jump into the next module leaving the old one unfinished.

I really don't think anyone has the right to view ED in the same light as any other developer given their operating practice, history and library of unfinished content......there is absolutely nothing to suggest that ED will actually do anything regarding a dynamic campaign or even assisting a 3rd party with the creation of additional tools that would help. It's a bit rich to expect a community to 'take charge' of a sim that is still in active development to cover their blushes and shortfalls especially when they still put resources into patching the game just to support payware mission content.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4355518 - 05/05/17 01:22 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 871
Winfield Offline
model citizen
Winfield  Offline
model citizen
Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 871
QLD
Geez, is it that bad they have to give key's away?

http://www.pchelicopters.com/index.php/polychop-competition

From the post.....

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3127641#post3127641


Here I was thinking the 'Community News' would be the next installment in the long list of campaigns released by members called "Paying Attention"

Being 11:11pm on a Friday Night (AEST) looks like I have to wait until tomorrow for the 'official update' on the early access to the "Normandy 2.1 Lighting campaign"

**side note, I wouldn't trust a module from the now 'defunct for quite some time' the much hyped Coretex Designs [CTD] E\F hornet bunch who promised a fully functioning aircraft carrier upon release with deck crew etc etc and blah blah blah

hence why I do not care for a free module from another failed 3rd party developer in which their module should join their 'hornet' in the mods section along with the skyhawk and other failed 3rd party devs....Kinney Interactive etc etc cough...cough...IL2 dev....cough....cough

SALE ON GENT'S......Sale as in "it stopped selling so we are now giving it away"

#4355535 - 05/05/17 02:26 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
Tokyo, Japan
They give ONE free copy away in a contest and you make a post like that?

A product that a separate company produces gets delayed - and people complain about it...I can understand being disappointed, but complaining about it? If you haven't bought it yet, why complain?

The immaturity in this forum is a little unbelievable sometimes. Complaining about free stuff invalidates your opinions as a consumer IMO.

Paradaz, I am not sure what issue you are taking with the mission editor. I have played around with it and have found it to be fully functional and nearly as good as any other editor that you might find in something like ARMA3, Dangerous Waters etc. I have been able to create totally replayable scenarios with it despite my lack of skill with that particular editor. I am absolutely certain though, from the tools I know are included with the editor, that a campaign highly resembling a dynamic campaign COULD be made with the existing editor and DCS world.

Dynamic Campaigns require HUGE AI programming talent and a lot of time. They also tend to eat up a lot of CPU resources.

I don't get the fixation some people have with this idea of a dynamic campaign - in the sim world dynamic campaigns have been the exception, NOT the rule. The only major sim I know of with a dynamic campaign is Falcon BMS, and Falcon killed the studio that developed it and only survives because somebody leaked the source code to the public - hundreds of people around the world collaborated for free to develop something over a period of more than 15 years to reach the state it has reached today. What company has that kind of resources?!

#4355536 - 05/05/17 02:28 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
On the other hand, very replayable missions can be created rather simply in the mission editor, and though I am not a mission editor expert, I imagine that with some scripting a campaign could be created with dozens of different possibilities depending on what happened in past missions. Most mission editors in any simulator created in the past 15 years have this ability.

Have you created such a mission? Has ED introduced a way to track building destruction now? Has ED introduced a way to model persistent damage? Can you script a mission where your task is to destroy a bridge and the mission can "grade" you depending on how accurate your delivery was? Can you then make a follow-up mission where you fly over said bridge and see it destroyed as you go on your way to bomb a specific building? Can you then make a third mission where you can overfly both the bridge and the building and see it destroyed?

While the idea is simple enough, testing and balancing the scripts takes time and personally, I cannot fly the missions I create. I can only fly as wingman and even then, it's difficult to "play dumb." It's like watching a movie where you wrote the script and directed the cinematography... it's hard to be "surprised" and appreciate the plot twists when you're the one who made the whole thing.


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Those people who feel so upset about the lack of a dynamic campaign should take charge and learn to use scripting and release a freeware campaign to put payware developers to shame. I would love to see this as I tend to play single player offline, as Japan generally has high pings to people in the US or Europe.

So the solution to ED's shortcomings is for the community to pick up the slack? duh


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
I am still of the opinion that if you don't know how to operate the navigation instruments in whatever aircraft you're flying, you don't have much right to complain about lack of functionality of XYZ weapons system, and surely no right to complain about the map size. If you don't even know where you are on a small map like Nevada or Georgia, how can you worry about what's going on outside those areas.

Why fly a combat aircraft to play with the navigation systems? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you here regarding learning the systems... just that if that were the point of the exercise, then DCS isn't the place to do such an excercise... nor is combat aircraft the platform to be doing the exercise. VOR/VORTAC/TACAN navigation can be done in civvie sims, then the knowledge just applied to combat sims later on. There's a reason pilots have waypoints plotted in and navigation by instruments is a "backup" system.


- Ice
#4355537 - 05/05/17 02:33 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
I have played around with it and have found it to be fully functional and nearly as good as any other editor that you might find in something like ARMA3, Dangerous Waters etc. I have been able to create totally replayable scenarios with it despite my lack of skill with that particular editor.

Sure, the editor is functional. Granted.


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
I am absolutely certain though, from the tools I know are included with the editor, that a campaign highly resembling a dynamic campaign COULD be made with the existing editor and DCS world.

It could be, and I thoroughly respect the individual or group that makes such an effort. Their work should surely be rewarded. However, you missed the point here. The issue isn't the lack of capability regarding the mission editor. Heck, you can even just make a random mission and fly that!! The issue here is replayability. There are many ways to get replayability; ED just chooses to support the one that needs the most work.


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Dynamic Campaigns require HUGE AI programming talent and a lot of time. They also tend to eat up a lot of CPU resources.

Where'd you get that from? How much CPU resources does the Falcon DC take up?


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
I don't get the fixation some people have with this idea of a dynamic campaign - in the sim world dynamic campaigns have been the exception, NOT the rule.

I'm guessing you missed THIS POST


- Ice
#4355541 - 05/05/17 03:09 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
The only major sim I know of with a dynamic campaign is Falcon BMS, and Falcon killed the studio that developed it and only survives because somebody leaked the source code to the public - hundreds of people around the world collaborated for free to develop something over a period of more than 15 years to reach the state it has reached today. What company has that kind of resources?!

1. The DC is not the "cause of death" of MicroProse. There are a lot of other factors that led to their demise, as well as for other studios that developed simulations with or without a DC.
2. The BMS mods are unpaid modders who do the work in their spare time. BMS itself sits atop work done for Falcon 4.0, Open Falcon, Free Falcon, etc. Even if we say that BMS "development" started 15-17 years ago (around the 1.08 patch time), how long has DCS development started? Does DCS not sit atop work done for Flanker, LOMAC, Flaming Cliffs, etc.? Then factor in the fact that DCS is done by PAID developers who do this as their JOB...
3. Even without factoring in the cost to make a DC, can you honestly say that ED is **NOT** mismanaging their resources with 3 builds, patch after patch after patch? New campaign DLC? New patch to go along with that!!


- Ice
#4355548 - 05/05/17 03:29 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
Tokyo, Japan
The lack of a dynamic campaign is not a shortcoming: It was never promised as far as I am aware. DCS was meant as an aerial tactical combat simulator, not a realtime strategy game. We were lucky to get a bit of the strategic element with the Combined Arms module, but DCS is not a strategic simulation.

Try to keep in mind that DCS evolved from the simulator called Flanker and the map has basically been the same for something like 20 years now. Some of the foundation code is probably around that age and it is not easy to do something like change it from a single map system into a round-world, global map using USGS/whatever land data.

Falcon BMS's graphics and optimization are a far cry from DCS. On full graphics settings Falcon BMS still looks old to my eyes, and while I like BMS, we're talking about a graphics engine that was made obsolete in the early 2000's. DCS's graphics push both the GPU and CPU to the limits. There's not a lot of breathing room for adding hundreds of units of AI all doing their own thing in real time while you fly a mission somewhere. If you have ever played a massive mission in ARMA3 you should know what happens when mission creators try to overdo the scale with AI. Things slow down and eventually there is a crash. Falcon can handle this because it was designed to run on Pentium II processors in 1998 and has been gradually updated over time. DCS made huge graphics engine improvements with each major jump from Flanker 2, 2.5, Lomac, etc. They're operating at the limits of current hardware at the moment. As far as how do I know about programming, well, I program stuff in my free time (C++, Java, PHP and Python) and I also have a copy of the source for Falcon 4 that was leaked more than a decade ago.

I understand that it would be nicer to have a dynamic campaign - don't get me wrong. I like them a lot, they add a lot of immersion. But for example, the best simulator that exists on the market right now in my opinion, Steel Beasts, has never had a dynamic campaign, yet people have been playing the hell out of it for 17 years now. I still play the same scenarios over and over again but they're never the same because the mission creator properly utilized randomization functions, scripting/whatever to ensure the same thing doesn't happen twice.

Regarding persistent objects / damage, I think that if someone wanted to do it badly enough they could make it happen. It might require a hack or a separate EXE but I am positive it can be done. Proof of this is in sims like Dangerous Waters where external mod teams have added entire platforms that were not meant to be playable into the game - and if they so desired they could just as easily pull the values for a specific object(s), save the state to a file and then use the same state the next time a linked mission is played. That's a clunky workaround, but again, ED never promised a Dynamic Campaign. Besides this fact though, I am not sure that the modding community has actually tried very hard to make something resembling a dynamic campaign with the tools that exist. The last time I browsed around I could only find a few campaigns available for free and the quality of most of the free ones was utterly poor.

As far as knowing the navigation systems when flying a combat aircraft, I figure if you cannot navigate an aircraft, one of the basic skills of flying, why bother doing battle with it. It's like complaining that your Ferrari isn't fast enough when you don't even have a driver's license.

#4355560 - 05/05/17 04:21 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,614
theOden Offline
Member
theOden  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,614
I've built myself a dynamic campaign but in crappy environments like LUA it soon becomes crap.

Also, since I cannot destroy bridges and structures when loading the game again one basically has to fly the whole shebang in one go.
Ground units and available planes in each squadron can be managed in textfiles so the engine only spawns surviving units but this also needs opening disc access that are nullified by DCS scripts (this also needs edited each time you get an update) and asking for a accessable file area gives you a complete frigging no response from Wags.

Debugging this kind of missions are a slap in the face and you soon starts to see mentally defect AI moves.

Runs OK for an evening as a MP-get-together for a few pilots though.

But full scale dynCamp in DCS? I really really do not think so.

Building the same from scratch in ArmA3 SQF files (Warfare/CTI for those who knows) you can have 800 units running all over the place along with as many vehicles no problemo.
With that the server can keep jogging for days.

#4355569 - 05/05/17 04:47 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
Force10 Offline
I'm just a
Force10  Offline
I'm just a
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
CA
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
The lack of a dynamic campaign is not a shortcoming: It was never promised as far as I am aware. DCS was meant as an aerial tactical combat simulator, not a realtime strategy game. We were lucky to get a bit of the strategic element with the Combined Arms module, but DCS is not a strategic simulation.



Wow...all this time of flight simming, I didn't realize that many of the sims I flew below that had a DC...were actually real time strategy games!

Originally Posted by heartc
[

From the top of my head, the only flightsims so far with Dynamic Campaigns were:

F-19 Stealth Fighter (Microprose, 1988)
Their Finest Hour (Lucas Arts, 1989)
Red Baron (Sierra, 1990)
Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (Lucas Arts, 1991)
Gunship 2000 (Microprose, 1991)
Aces of the Pacific (Sierra, 1992)
AV 8 B Harrier Assault (Domark, 1992)
F-15 Strike Eagle III (Microprose, 1993)
Aces over Europe (Sierra, 1993)
Falcon 3.0 (Spectrum Holobyte / Microprose, 1993)
Tornado (Digital Integration, 1993)
1942 The Pacific Air War (Microprose, 1994)
Eurofighter 2000 (Digital Image Design, 1995)
Navy Strike (Empire Interactive, 1995)
Flying Corps (Rowan Software, 1996)
Longbow 2 (Jane's Combat Simulations, 1997)
iF-22 (Interactive Magic, 1997)
Red Baron 2 (Sierra, 1998)
iF-18 Carrier Strike Fighter (Interactive Magic, 1998)
Total Air War (Digital Image Design, 1998)
European Air War (Microprose, 1998)
Falcon 4.0 (Microprose, 1998)
Enemy Engaged: Apache vs Havoc (Razorworks, 1998)
Mig Alley (Rowan Software, 1999)
B-17 II The Mighty Eighth (Microprose, 2000)
Enemy Engaged: Comanche vs Hokum (Razorworks, 2000)
Battle of Britain (Rowan Software, 2000)
IL2 Forgotten Battles (1C Company, 2003)
Pacific Fighters (1C Company, 2006)
Rise of Flight (777, 2009)
Wings: Over Flanders Fields (OBD Software, 2013)



I guess instead of realizing the shortcomings of DCS not having a dynamic campaign...and being stuck in a sterile, lifeless, immersion-less battlefield...we are now going to re-define what a flight sim actually is.

Priceless...

Last edited by Force10; 05/05/17 04:47 PM.

Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard
Windows 7 64 bit Home edition
Intel I5 4670K @ 4.4 ghz
16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory
EVGA GTX 970 Superclocked 4gb Video Card
Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive)
Samsung 840 1TB SSD
Onboard Realtek sound
______________________________________________________

Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"



#4355581 - 05/05/17 05:27 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,168
Flogger23m Offline
Senior Member
Flogger23m  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,168
US
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow

Falcon BMS's graphics and optimization are a far cry from DCS. On full graphics settings Falcon BMS still looks old to my eyes, and while I like BMS, we're talking about a graphics engine that was made obsolete in the early 2000's. DCS's graphics push both the GPU and CPU to the limits.


Not really. Especially seeing that DCS can't use more than a single thread. My understanding is that games will essentially never see full scaling from each core, but I'm sure an extra core dedicated to AI units and whatnot would lessen the massive frame rate drops when putting a number of units in a mission.

#4355585 - 05/05/17 05:51 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Flogger23m]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Nate Offline
Member
Nate  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Dublin, Ireland
Originally Posted by Flogger23m

Not really. Especially seeing that DCS can't use more than a single thread. My understanding is that games will essentially never see full scaling from each core, but I'm sure an extra core dedicated to AI units and whatnot would lessen the massive frame rate drops when putting a number of units in a mission.


It does use 2 currently (albeit for offloading Audio spatial processing) - but what you describe would be the holy Grail IMO. The benefit has already been demonstrated by offloading the AI onto a 2nd server to increase FPS in single-player. I'd hope that they'd take a direction like moving everything to TCP for communication between components of the sim. Any future Dedicated server could then theoretically double as a separate AI server for single-player too.

Oh and in before the ...."yeah well see it in 2050 hurr durr...."

Nate.

#4355613 - 05/05/17 09:39 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 662
cdelucia Offline
Member
cdelucia  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 662
Pittsburgh, PA
"The lack of a dynamic campaign is not a shortcoming: It was never promised as far as I am aware" Yeah, about that. Wags had stated "It's on the road map, just have more important things to get to." That was at least six years ago, though now we see that it's never really been on the road map. I remember Ross McGregor making a preliminary DC to go along with LOMAC; I'm not sure whether he received any help from ED. I can't recall whether or not he finished it as that was at least eight years ago.

But about no DC not being an issue, I really can't abide by that. Is it really that hard to have persistent damage from mission to mission? No, no it's not. Looking at the list from above, we've had that for a long time. But not with ED. Also, those are flight sims, not real time strategy games - really not sure where you got that idea from. So to sum up: 1) ED keeps lying to it's commercial market customers [us] that they give a hoot about us all the while catering almost exclusively to the military contract/private company market, 2) can't focus to finish a particular project to save their lives, and 3) have a game engine that still can't do some basic things like air-to-ground radar. Actually a third party developer has beaten them to the punch on that with the Viggen. It's basic but still, at least they gave us a plane with that capability. Sad that the original developer is so far behind on their own product.

ED is only a partial company (at least with the way they're run) that's been proffering a partially completed product to us for quite a while now. They've done some nice things, but have yet to really finish them, so don't expect all of us here to miss the forest for the trees.

Actually, I was just looking for their latest newsletter and found April's. It talked about getting Nevada out of Alpha, the Crimean map up to 2.0 standards, doing the bulk of the F/A-18's air-to-ground radar, dedicated server, and improving the AI's landing logic. "Wow, they're finally making progress," I thought. Then I checked the post date - April 30, 2015. Sigh. . .

#4355629 - 05/05/17 11:22 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
I'm sorry, Longbow, but if you are going to go down this route, I'm going to have to respond to it.

Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
The lack of a dynamic campaign is not a shortcoming: It was never promised as far as I am aware. DCS was meant as an aerial tactical combat simulator, not a realtime strategy game. We were lucky to get a bit of the strategic element with the Combined Arms module, but DCS is not a strategic simulation.

Promised or not, it **IS** a shortcoming of the product that is called DCS. Planned or not, they DID make a poll asking what their customers wanted.... and proceeded to ignore the results of the said poll. "Aerial tactical combat simulator"??? With what aircraft? With what weapons systems? Are their FMs really "tactical combat simulator" level? Are their A-A missiles "tactical combat simulator" level??? Please let's not kid ourselves here.

Also, since when does a DC make a "simulation" into "strategic simulation"??


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Try to keep in mind that DCS evolved from the simulator called Flanker and the map has basically been the same for something like 20 years now. Some of the foundation code is probably around that age and it is not easy to do something like change it from a single map system into a round-world, global map using USGS/whatever land data.

Yet here we have a sim modded by people who work for free and do so on their spare time.... and have gotten a fully-working, 6DoF cockpit with TrackIR... concepts that did not exists in 1998. Additional theatres with photorealistic tiles like Balkans, Ostsee (spell check on that), and Israel. See where I'm going with this?


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Falcon BMS's graphics and optimization are a far cry from DCS. On full graphics settings Falcon BMS still looks old to my eyes, and while I like BMS, we're talking about a graphics engine that was made obsolete in the early 2000's. DCS's graphics push both the GPU and CPU to the limits.

I'm sorry, but you're losing me here... are we talking about a COMBAT FLIGHT SIMULATOR or are we talking about taking pretty pictures with combat aircraft? Also, DCS does not push "GPU and CPU to the limits"... not when you have crappy code that limits draw distance and gives micro-stutters whenever bombs go off on a sim where one of the best modules is a FRIKKING GROUND POUNDER.

I had the same stance as you did when I started with Falcon... damn, the cockpit looks old, the terrain looks terrible, the shadows in the cockpit... well, let's not even go there!! Are you kidding me? Then I learned how to fight in the F-16 again and the immersion just kicks in and you don't even SEE the graphics in as much as you just get INFORMATION from the graphics to build up SA around you. You don't see the nasty-ass shadows in the cockpit, you only notice it and use that to get INFORMATION as to your orientation.... are you inverted? Are you turning? You don't see the ugly terrain, you only notice it and use that to get INFORMATION as to your altitude... are you about to smack into that mountainside? Can you adjust your turn to take advantage of G? Should you be worried about low AAA and flak?

If you have time to admire the scenery, there's not much COMBAT in that combat flight simulator.

If you see a lake nearby and think to yourself "wow, that's a lovely lake... I wonder what the fishing is like there? I must visit that lake sometime or take a closer look in one of my next flights," then you're probably flying a civilian sim. If you see a lake nearby and think to yourself "I gotta get to that lake to get away from ground fire and AAA... also won't have to worry about IR SAMs over that lake!!", then you're probably flying a COMBAT flight simulation


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
There's not a lot of breathing room for adding hundreds of units of AI all doing their own thing in real time while you fly a mission somewhere. If you have ever played a massive mission in ARMA3 you should know what happens when mission creators try to overdo the scale with AI. Things slow down and eventually there is a crash. Falcon can handle this because it was designed to run on Pentium II processors in 1998 and has been gradually updated over time. DCS made huge graphics engine improvements with each major jump from Flanker 2, 2.5, Lomac, etc. They're operating at the limits of current hardware at the moment. As far as how do I know about programming, well, I program stuff in my free time (C++, Java, PHP and Python) and I also have a copy of the source for Falcon 4 that was leaked more than a decade ago.

Simply put, ARMA units =/= Falcon units. Just because ARMA can't handle it doesn't mean other games can't. If a game that's designed to run on Pentium IIs in 1998 can "out-unit" a modern-day title, then the modern-day title is doing something very, very wrong.


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
I understand that it would be nicer to have a dynamic campaign - don't get me wrong. I like them a lot, they add a lot of immersion. But for example, the best simulator that exists on the market right now in my opinion, Steel Beasts, has never had a dynamic campaign, yet people have been playing the hell out of it for 17 years now. I still play the same scenarios over and over again but they're never the same because the mission creator properly utilized randomization functions, scripting/whatever to ensure the same thing doesn't happen twice.

Um, yeah. I bet Steel Beasts doesn't have half-finished tanks that nobody asked for either. And have you seen their pricing scheme? Much much cheaper than DCS! Also interesting you mentioned immersion... funny how old-looking sims seems to rely on something other than eye candy huh?


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Regarding persistent objects / damage, I think that if someone wanted to do it badly enough they could make it happen. It might require a hack or a separate EXE but I am positive it can be done.

OH
MY
GOD

A sim from 1998 can do this. A lot of other sims can do this. But DCS needs a 3rd party hack? Can't you **SEE** the FLAW in your logic there???
Also, for a COMBAT FLIGHT SIMULATOR, they didn't think it was **NECESSARY** to model persistent damage?? duh


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
That's a clunky workaround, but again, ED never promised a Dynamic Campaign.

Persistent damage doesn't even have anything to do with a DC!! You're flying over war-torn Georgia... you expect all buildings to be pristine and all bridges to be intact? What, are all missions set on Day 1 of the war?


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Besides this fact though, I am not sure that the modding community has actually tried very hard to make something resembling a dynamic campaign with the tools that exist. The last time I browsed around I could only find a few campaigns available for free and the quality of most of the free ones was utterly poor.

Maybe because it's not the community's job to make a DC? Maybe the tools available are not fit for making a proper DC? Interestingly enough, the Israel theatre in BMS has a DC....


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
As far as knowing the navigation systems when flying a combat aircraft, I figure if you cannot navigate an aircraft, one of the basic skills of flying, why bother doing battle with it. It's like complaining that your Ferrari isn't fast enough when you don't even have a driver's license.

I'm sorry, but if I wanted to hone up on my old-school navigation skills, I'd fire up FSX or XP11. For COMBAT flight simulation, navigation is simply following your waypoints to the target, and then hopefully back home. You do not fire up a COMBAT flight simulation to follow VORs around the map, you fire up a COMBAT flight simulation to drop bombs and fire missiles.

Do you use your Ferrari on the racetrack to practice sticking to city-streets speed limits? Do you take your Ford Focus downtown to practice your cornering skills?


- Ice
#4355631 - 05/05/17 11:35 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 871
Winfield Offline
model citizen
Winfield  Offline
model citizen
Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 871
QLD
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
They give ONE free copy away in a contest and you make a post like that?

A product that a separate company produces gets delayed - and people complain about it...I can understand being disappointed, but complaining about it? If you haven't bought it yet, why complain?

The immaturity in this forum is a little unbelievable sometimes. Complaining about free stuff invalidates your opinions as a consumer IMO.


Interesting...oh please don't exaggerate your self.

Why would I want to pay for something that has the flight dynamics of 'Janes Longbow'
Hey, don't take my word for it.....
Let's hear from those who actually spent money on this worthless piece of hard drive space and nothing is fixed more than 12 months after release.

Source for reference: Here and Here

03-13-2017, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Foca
Hi guys,

Huge discussion about FM as you probably are all aware.

So I haven't had anytime to fly in the simulator since that discussion. I've got a brand new PC and I've install DCS and tried you Gazelle.

It is to my astonishment, that the Gazelle continues not to operate as a helicopter in hover and specially turns.

I recall that I have a few hundred hours in real life helicopters, from Robinsons where I took my CPL to AS365 Dauphin.

I really thought you guys could fix the problem and the behavior, but it's still present. And please, if there are pilots that validate your FM, please give them my contact because I would like to take a talk with those experts...

When you turn in a helicopter, using artificial stabilization or not, the helicopter must "follow" the turn. Your FM of the Gazelle, if you turn, the nose simply stays there.

That is not, let me say this again, that is not how it is suppose to behave. The helicopter should follow the turn. Meaning that it should be changing its heading thus it's yaw rate! Even without pedal into the turn!

In your Gazelle, its like its necessary pedal input to make it turn into the roll.

Also, it is not really noticeable the dynamics of hover, without stabilization!

I don't know if I am expressing right or if you are understanding what I am trying to say here. Simply put, no helicopter flies like your Gazelle!

I have real life experience in R22, R44, AS350, AS365 and Ka-32. None of those helicopters flies like your Gazelle.

Although they fly a lot like the Huey and the Ka-50. The resemblance between the Ka-50 and Ka-32 in real life is amazing. The Huey is comparable to the AS365, although AS365 has less vibration. But speaking in flight dynamics, all those helicopters fly the same, meaning, you expect the same behavior with the obvious differences.

But I am sorry to say this: Your Gazelle is not flying like a helicopter.

I was really expecting that after so many time it would be corrected, but it's still the same.

Kind regards and hope the best.


Yet, 12 months prior from the same person......

05-02-2016, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Foca
Hi guys,

Just bought your module tonight.

In all honesty I must say you did an amazing job capturing the soul of this helicopter.

Except, I don't feel her!

Just to let you know my background, I'm a RL helicopter pilot working for civil market, the TR I flew are AS350, AS365, R22 and R44, with a couple hundred hours scattered on those types, most of my flight time is in the Dauphin and 350 in FF nowdays.

Please have in mind I never flew in a Gazelle, but I'm supposing that it has flight characteristics from both the 350 (though the Gazelle must be more rigid like the rotor of an Alouette III) and the fenestron from 365, although much smaller in the Gazelle.

I am also taking into account all the hardware problems associated with the desktop PC, this means, the lack of precision and the lack of sensations.

What I meant by not feeling her, is that I don't feel I am flying a helicopter. Something I felt with Huey, Mi-8 and Ka-50. The responses from the helicopter are not those that I would except in real life (albeit all the differences between types, just talking about non artificially stabilized flight), specially in turns, it feels like it doesn't have a vertical stabilizer. I know that the Gazelle one is small, and probably, has something to do with that, comparing it to the size of the vertical structure of the 365, that is massive, but I really feels like it lacks the feeling of flying. Also when using stabilization, it's like the SAS is fighting with me and not helping me at all flying the aircraft.

For sure, when I fly the Dauphin without SAS (CPL) on the aircraft is more responsive to inputs by the pilot, but it's not like fully mad! When in coupled mode, the aircraft is really smooth and stabilized, and in the Dauphin you use the beep trim or trim release to get rid of the forces, but its really smooth. In the 350, the aircraft its really more nervous, the inputs by the pilot feels more immediate, also it's almost half the mass of the Dauphin. The Gazelle, I suppose to feel like the 350 without SAS on, but with it on, more like the Dauphin.

I didn't tried any advance maneuver, such as auto-rotation or any other emergency.

I don't want you guys to this that this is bad criticism, it is not. I'm just hoping you guys can make it work better, or feel better.

I will try it with curves, to see if it feels better, but I am almost sure that is doesn't, because I never used curves for the Huey, and it is a non SAS bird, direct hydraulic control.

Just my thoughts, don't know what others think and I am really curious to ear about real Gazelle pilots and what they think of it.

Kind regards and continue the great work.


And the official response, which mind you was posted on behalf of the community manager???

03-13-2017, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by BigNewy

Hi all,

I have been contacted by the CEO of Polychop and he asked me to publish the following statement:

Quote:Hi all,

Due to a restructuring of Polychop, we are very busy at the moment. Until internal legal issues are sorted out, we are unable to post any status. Nevertheless I can assure you all that the team is working hard on all open issues.

I am sure the team will address your issues and concerns in time.


So the concerns at release are still present now with no light at the end of the pixel? I complained because the module is so useless that Poly are giving away a 'free' key

Seems like repeating cycle of failed 3rd party devs who rorted the consumers out of hard earned cash and now they can't be bothered completing the module [VEAO, AVIO,].....

Thinking about it, the pattern of 3rd party devs splitting before a module is complete seems to be the norm in 3rd party land...Leatherneck split, Cortex [devs behind the gazelle] split....VPJT....split......the list grows....

hate the bandwidth, not the player.







#4355634 - 05/05/17 11:37 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: theOden]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 467
nadal Offline
Member
nadal  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 467
Rather than saving destroyed building, I think implementing feature, mission plannable while mission running ("Create flight" in falcon4) is better solution for DCS.

As automatic territory contestation is already possible with script.

Last edited by nadal; 05/05/17 11:39 PM.
#4355658 - 05/06/17 03:02 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
Tokyo, Japan
I don't disagree that a Dynamic Campaign is an awesome feature. I would like DCS to have a dynamic campaign for sure, I'm just saying that it is a tall order considering the market and the resources ED probably has at their disposal.

Someone posted a list of all the sims that came out with dynamic campaigns, but I think that it proved my point - out of all those Dynamic Campaign sims only 2 or 3 of them are still alive, the rest have been put out to pasture. Flanker and DCS have been going strong for more than 20 years now, I think they have figured out the most important thing - staying in business. I also have a tendency to give Wags some leeway because he has been a part of the development of a good number of the simulators we all enjoyed the most in the golden days. If he has made a decision to do or not to do something, he's probably got a reason for it, and his judgment is probably correct - even if it's not a popular decision.

I'm happier having DCS as a platform that needs improvement rather than having a disbanded DCS with no future.

Some people have talked about putting AI onto a second server, and adding multi-threading to DCS. This definitely should be on ED's priority list but multithreading is probably difficult to achieve without huge rewrites of the core engine. Not likely to happen soon, I would guess.

I like BMS too, and I am not a stickler for graphics either - I did play steel beasts gold (MS Dos style graphics) for 15 years or so. Immersion is everything, I believe that as well. But DCS gives us the opportunity to fly a huge variety of different platforms from ground vehicles to helicopters to jets. There is a tradeoff. Falcon was designed from the base up to be an F-16 sim ONLY. All of the aerodynamics coding is likely greatly simplified since it only has to work perfectly for one platform. Back in the old days, people cried for graphics improvements to Flanker and LOMAC so those were prioritized. Advanced Flight Models were the rage and ED focused on those things. Now they've subcontracted modules out to other developers and have their hands full fixing myriads of other tasks. I have a feeling that their military clients take high priority over the commercially distributed edition of DCS.

I think we also have to give ED a break when it comes to certain technologies like missile behavior - who knows what kind of government pressure or danger they may face if they publish / produce weapons systems that perfectly replicate the real deal. Remember two of ED's guys were put in prison for taking photos of Greek air bases. There are all kinds of problems they have to deal with that most of us take for granted since we don't have a responsibility to military clients and most of us live in countries where freedom of information is a guaranteed right.

I'm not trying to be an ED fanboy, I just think that we should enjoy the stuff we have gotten so far, play with the tools we have, and keep gently nudging ED to adjust and fix areas we're not happy with. The improvements WILL come, but it might take some time. In the meantime, go take a flight and enjoy things a bit. If your platform feels unflyable or is not fun for you, sell it to someone else or just don't fly it until it's fixed. I shelved the M2000 for 2 months after purchase and the next time I flew it, it was a completely different beast. The MI-8 was a similar story.

#4355661 - 05/06/17 03:23 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
cichlidfan Offline
Member
cichlidfan  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
Woodbridge, VA, USA
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Remember two of ED's guys were put in prison for taking photos of Greek air bases.


Those were Bohemia Interactive (ARMA) guys.

Last edited by cichlidfan; 05/06/17 03:23 AM.

ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1
#4355685 - 05/06/17 11:26 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,555
Tokyo, Japan
Woops, my mistake, but the point stands - there are issues that a lot of us probably don't hear about. I wonder if the ED guys want to fix XYZ problem but the Russian government has told them "stay away from XYZ technology in your commercial simulator"

#4355698 - 05/06/17 01:20 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: - Ice]  
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Art_J Offline
Member
Art_J  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted by - Ice
Why did you expect anyone to "have a problem with polished DCS modules"?? duh

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Art_J
I still enjoy flying DCS crates just for the sake of flying

If that's the case, what's the difference between DCS and FSX/P3D/XP10/XP11?? Those other sims also give you the "just for the sake of flying" feeling on a MUCH BIGGER MAP with a better selection of "crates" for the fraction of the price DCS is asking for.


We're getting quite offtopic here, but c'mon, Ice, you know it's the fraction of price but the other way around. I've been considering that for a long time nad doing calculations, but one has to pay through the nose on all these ORBX/FTX and rare PMDG/A2A-level aircraft to bring up civ platforms anywhere close to DCS as far as appearance and flight modelling is concerned. While crappy performance stays the same, as there's only so much one can get out of ancient, 32-bit engines, utilizing modern hardware even worse than DCS. Not to mention LM charging full price for every major P3D update, something which even ED doesn't do (Black Shark to Black Shark 2 and Flaming Cliffs 2 to Flaming Cliffs 3 transitions were the only pathetic exceptions). It's even worse market segment monopoly than ED's! At the same time, I never paid full price for any ED module, hunting them down on various promo-sales only.

World map in civ sims is a factor I admit, so is real-time weather and superior ATC/navaids, but mostly for guys interested in long-distance IFR flying and I'm not one of them.

That being said, I do monitor the recent situation with a new bad boy in town (XP11) causing quite an uproar amongst civ sim customers. Even downlaoded the demo and gave it a try. I'm also curious about upcoming P3D v4 (will it or will it not be 64-bit? Correct me if I'm wrong, but still no official confirmation I believe?), watching people waiting for it like for the second coming of Christ (similar to DCS'ers waiting/hoping for the miracle of "The Merge"). Last but not least, there's this Dovetail company planning to bite a chunk of the market-cake as well with their upcoming "new" product and they pretend to be serious this time. Monopoly is slowly getting broken it seems.

If ANY new platform allows me flying something like A2A T-6 Texan over some well modelled scenery (even limited one) with stable 60 fps (ok, let's make it 50), for comparable price to DCS, I'll happily add it to my PC and will play both.

#4355702 - 05/06/17 01:35 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Art_J]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
cichlidfan Offline
Member
cichlidfan  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
Woodbridge, VA, USA
Originally Posted by Art_J
Originally Posted by - Ice
Why did you expect anyone to "have a problem with polished DCS modules"?? duh

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Art_J
I still enjoy flying DCS crates just for the sake of flying

If that's the case, what's the difference between DCS and FSX/P3D/XP10/XP11?? Those other sims also give you the "just for the sake of flying" feeling on a MUCH BIGGER MAP with a better selection of "crates" for the fraction of the price DCS is asking for.


We're getting quite offtopic here, but c'mon, Ice, you know it's the fraction of price but the other way around. I've been considering that for a long time nad doing calculations, but one has to pay through the nose on all these ORBX/FTX and rare PMDG/A2A-level aircraft to bring up civ platforms anywhere close to DCS as far as appearance and flight modelling is concerned. While crappy performance stays the same, as there's only so much one can get out of ancient, 32-bit engines, utilizing modern hardware even worse than DCS. Not to mention LM charging full price for every major P3D update, something which even ED doesn't do (Black Shark to Black Shark 2 and Flaming Cliffs 2 to Flaming Cliffs 3 transitions were the only pathetic exceptions). It's even worse market segment monopoly than ED's! At the same time, I never paid full price for any ED module, hunting them down on various promo-sales only.


Don't try to burst Ice's reality bubble. He knows DCS costs more than everything else, because he just knows these things. He probably doesn't have a clue about the cost of FSX addons or a legitimate license cost for P3D (or what you get for your money) because he doesn't fly them, just like he hasn't flown DCS in many years.


ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1
#4355788 - 05/06/17 11:45 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: cichlidfan]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
I don't disagree that a Dynamic Campaign is an awesome feature. I would like DCS to have a dynamic campaign for sure, I'm just saying that it is a tall order considering the market and the resources ED probably has at their disposal.

A DC can do much more for the game than any single module can. Think of it like this --- a DC will breathe more life into modules that people have not touched in years. But you are correct though -- a DC is a tall order -- seeing as ED is struggling just to meet their own deadlines for stuff that they've been making for the past 10 years. You'd think they'd know how to do their job by now; you'd think they'd know how to make realistic estimates too!


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Someone posted a list of all the sims that came out with dynamic campaigns, but I think that it proved my point - out of all those Dynamic Campaign sims only 2 or 3 of them are still alive, the rest have been put out to pasture.

No, it doesn't prove anything aside from the fact that many other developers and games have had a DC. Please stop trying to burn the strawman argument of "DC killed those developers," it didn't. The market just moved away from simulations. For all of those games that had a DC, I'm sure there's 10x more that did NOT have a DC yet still went the way of the dodo bird.


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Flanker and DCS have been going strong for more than 20 years now, I think they have figured out the most important thing - staying in business.

Unfortunately, this "technique" involves gutting their customers for everything they can.


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
But DCS gives us the opportunity to fly a huge variety of different platforms from ground vehicles to helicopters to jets.

So does FSX/P3D/XPlane. What makes DCS so special then?


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
I have a feeling that their military clients take high priority over the commercially distributed edition of DCS.

Yet another myth. Sure, the A10C was from a military contract. But what else? Are there any recent work which we can say is derived from a military contract? Are there any recent work that you could imagine they'd have sold to some military agency?


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
I think we also have to give ED a break when it comes to certain technologies like missile behavior - who knows what kind of government pressure or danger they may face if they publish / produce weapons systems that perfectly replicate the real deal.

That's the most creative excuse I've come across so far... maybe we can use it also when people complain about flight models being off...


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
and keep gently nudging ED to adjust and fix areas we're not happy with.

You really still think ED needs a "gentle nudge"?? That's so cute!



Originally Posted by Art_J
[We're getting quite offtopic here, but c'mon, Ice, you know it's the fraction of price but the other way around. I've been considering that for a long time nad doing calculations, but one has to pay through the nose on all these ORBX/FTX and rare PMDG/A2A-level aircraft to bring up civ platforms anywhere close to DCS as far as appearance and flight modelling is concerned.

Then you've not done your research properly or you've made a mistake in your calculations. Here, let me show you:
XPlane 11 - $59.99
Region - Entire World. Look up Ortho4XP.
Aircraft - ASK 21 (no need to look further if you want "the joys of flight") plus 8 other aircraft.

Now remind me again how much of navigation aids and ATC is modeled in DCS? What can you put forward in terms of "value for money" to compare to what I've shown above?


Originally Posted by Art_J
While crappy performance stays the same, as there's only so much one can get out of ancient, 32-bit engines, utilizing modern hardware even worse than DCS. Not to mention LM charging full price for every major P3D update, something which even ED doesn't do (Black Shark to Black Shark 2 and Flaming Cliffs 2 to Flaming Cliffs 3 transitions were the only pathetic exceptions). It's even worse market segment monopoly than ED's! At the same time, I never paid full price for any ED module, hunting them down on various promo-sales only.

Well, if you insist on sticking to FSX/P3D, that's your problem, not mine.


Originally Posted by Art_J
World map in civ sims is a factor I admit, so is real-time weather and superior ATC/navaids, but mostly for guys interested in long-distance IFR flying and I'm not one of them.

Score another two points for civvie sims.... still think DCS's pricing is worth it? Also, I just did an IFR flight over my local area in XP11... IFR as in "I Follow Roads" and explored the route I take by car --- from the air. Located familiar landmarks, flew over my house, my place of work, the local retail park... and remember, I live in an area that is of no particular interest for even the best photoreal terrain maker but with XP11 and Ortho4XP, I was able to do this.

Then there's this bad boy:

link


Originally Posted by Art_J
That being said, I do monitor the recent situation with a new bad boy in town (XP11) causing quite an uproar amongst civ sim customers. Even downlaoded the demo and gave it a try.

Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!! You call me out and insist it's the other way around and you've only just tried XP11? What was that about "doing calculations" and stuff? Back to the old drawingboard for you, my friend!


Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Don't try to burst Ice's reality bubble. He knows DCS costs more than everything else, because he just knows these things. He probably doesn't have a clue about the cost of FSX addons or a legitimate license cost for P3D (or what you get for your money) because he doesn't fly them, just like he hasn't flown DCS in many years.

Unlike others that spout nonsense here in the forums, I know how to read and how to process information. Now did you have something useful to contribute? Some counter point with substance?
ps. The price for DCS modules are displayed on their website, so are the prices for FSX addons and P3D licenses available on display on their respective websites. I don't have to buy them to know how much they cost, just as I don't have to fly DCS to still know the program isn't worth my time. There's enough guinea pigs and there's this thing called "internet" and a procedure called "research"....

Please do help Art_J in trying to prove your statement that DCS does NOT cost more. Let's see which one of us "has a clue" and which one can only post useless replies.


- Ice
#4355852 - 05/07/17 11:09 AM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Textanker]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1
Xordus Offline
Junior Member
Xordus  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1
Wow, people on here really are whiny....

You guys act like ED stole something from you. You act like this company owes you all of these things that you complain about not having. Few of you appreciate the things that they have done and how impressive the sim truly is. It's really hard to objectively argue that DCS isn't the best military sim on the market and yet all you people do is complain that it's not better!

DCS has some problems, some big ones like how missiles don't work up to RL standards and navaids are underutilized. We all know these things. They also have created a platform to accommodate the best flight models in the history of flight simulation! They've given military simmers a new level of fidelity in military planes. It's not perfect, BUT IT NEVER WILL BE.

It's truly amazing what our society has created in the form of entitlement. I'm not satisfied with anything, nothing is good enough, and I'm going to let everyone know just how far it is from my ever inflating expectations!!

#4355861 - 05/07/17 01:18 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Xordus]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
leaf_on_the_wind Offline
Member
leaf_on_the_wind  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by Xordus
Wow, people on here really are whiny....

You guys act like ED stole something from you. You act like this company owes you all of these things that you complain about not having. Few of you appreciate the things that they have done and how impressive the sim truly is. It's really hard to objectively argue that DCS isn't the best military sim on the market and yet all you people do is complain that it's not better!

DCS has some problems, some big ones like how missiles don't work up to RL standards and navaids are underutilized. We all know these things. They also have created a platform to accommodate the best flight models in the history of flight simulation! They've given military simmers a new level of fidelity in military planes. It's not perfect, BUT IT NEVER WILL BE.

It's truly amazing what our society has created in the form of entitlement. I'm not satisfied with anything, nothing is good enough, and I'm going to let everyone know just how far it is from my ever inflating expectations!!


Pointing out what is wrong with something is NOT whining , its called feedback

Taking money and not providing a decent/finished product to the buyer is not stealing,its p1ss poor business practice

Glad you admint DCS has "some" issues, sadly they dont seem too keen on sorting them out , they are moreinterested in milking money by selling campaigns

No one reasonably expects perfection , but the obvious bad bugs need to be fixed

The reason why people can point out the flaws in DCS on this site is because there is this weird thing called freedom of speech here

It amazing you come out with all this stuff on your first ever post , been lurking long time then , or maybe were you on here before under a different name ?




Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4355983 - 05/07/17 10:01 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind
It amazing you come out with all this stuff on your first ever post , been lurking long time then , or maybe were you on here before under a different name ?

Hahaha!! Got that feeling a bit too...


Originally Posted by Xordus
Wow, people on here really are whiny....

We might be, but that's also because this is a place where you can whine without fear of censorship or being banned. While you can say that some folks here are "whiny," you can't say that what they're complaining about is untrue. Very, very important distinction there.


Originally Posted by Xordus
You guys act like ED stole something from you. You act like this company owes you all of these things that you complain about not having.

Well, they owe some of us Nevada since, um, 2010 or 2011....


Originally Posted by Xordus
Few of you appreciate the things that they have done and how impressive the sim truly is. It's really hard to objectively argue that DCS isn't the best military sim on the market and yet all you people do is complain that it's not better!

Clearly you have not played other flight sims.
Also hard to take you seriously when you make such a claim (best military sim on the market) without evidence to back up your claim. Feel free to try again.


Originally Posted by Xordus
DCS has some problems, some big ones like how missiles don't work up to RL standards and navaids are underutilized.

What were you saying about "best military sim" again??


Originally Posted by Xordus
They also have created a platform to accommodate the best flight models in the history of flight simulation! They've given military simmers a new level of fidelity in military planes. It's not perfect, BUT IT NEVER WILL BE.

Yeah, you're starting to sound familiar now...
Also LOL at "military simmers"....


Originally Posted by Xordus
It's truly amazing what our society has created in the form of entitlement. I'm not satisfied with anything, nothing is good enough, and I'm going to let everyone know just how far it is from my ever inflating expectations!!

Um, when MONEY has exchanged hands, I don't know about you, but I personally would feel ENTITLED to the item that I bought.... if you're happy to support people who make promises and then break those promises and repeat this cycle over and over and over and over while you continue to support them, that's on you. Don't expect others to behave the same way, and don't complain when those people start to complain.

Welcome to SimHQ!! Interesting first post....



- Ice
#4356121 - 05/08/17 02:27 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Xordus]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
heartc Offline
Member
heartc  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by Xordus
Wow, people on here really are whiny....

You guys act like ED stole something from you. You act like this company owes you all of these things that you complain about not having. Few of you appreciate the things that they have done and how impressive the sim truly is. It's really hard to objectively argue that DCS isn't the best military sim on the market and yet all you people do is complain that it's not better!

DCS has some problems, some big ones like how missiles don't work up to RL standards and navaids are underutilized. We all know these things. They also have created a platform to accommodate the best flight models in the history of flight simulation! They've given military simmers a new level of fidelity in military planes. It's not perfect, BUT IT NEVER WILL BE.

It's truly amazing what our society has created in the form of entitlement. I'm not satisfied with anything, nothing is good enough, and I'm going to let everyone know just how far it is from my ever inflating expectations!!


Hi Matt.

The only post that seems whiny on here is yours. Now that the narrative of "Only Falcon 4 did a DC" has been brutally destroyed, all you are left with is "BUT YOU AREN'T ENTITLED TO IT!!"
It's not about who is entitled to what, Matt. It's called getting negative feedback from your customers because you fail to deliver what they want for...let's see...something around 14 years now (pointy nose multirole, dynamic campaign). I love your kind of thinking though, it is funny. It's right next to my other favourite "You are only allowed to critizise the devs after programming your own flightsim". Imagine a car manufacturer dealing with his customers this way when they point out flaws in his product. "Built your own car first!" "BUT YOU AREN'T ENTITLED TO IT!". Hahaha.

Business is a two-way street, has always been, nothing to do with "our society". You get people what they want, they are happy (most of the time), you get the moneys $$$. You continually don't, or you keep them waiting for 14 years, they get kinda worked up about it. It's normal. But saying "YOU AREN'T ENTITLED TO IT" or "BUILT YOUR OWN FLIGHTSIM" is not normal. It's deluded. What has really happened here is that ED lost its grip on reality thanks to their near monopoly on Mil-Jetsims. They thought they could get away with everything, but now have to find that they really don't. Duh.

Also, ED might want to think about that one: Maybe it wasn't such a good idea afterall to ban hammer customers from their forums even for mild criticism and on a scale unseen before. Because all that does is create a powder keg of very angry people somewhere else and in a place that you have NO control over, which will one day come back and bite you in the a$$. Well, until ED also has the monopoly on all flightsim forums. But that day seems far into the future, and it would cost much less energy for ED to just deliver what people are asking for rather than pursue that.


#4356406 - 05/09/17 05:31 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: - Ice]  
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Art_J Offline
Member
Art_J  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted by - Ice

Then you've not done your research properly or you've made a mistake in your calculations. Here, let me show you:
XPlane 11 - $59.99
Region - Entire World. Look up Ortho4XP.
Aircraft - ASK 21 (no need to look further if you want "the joys of flight") plus 8 other aircraft.

Now remind me again how much of navigation aids and ATC is modeled in DCS? What can you put forward in terms of "value for money" to compare to what I've shown above?


Originally Posted by - Ice

Well, if you insist on sticking to FSX/P3D, that's your problem, not mine.


Not quite relevant really. If I wanted to fly ANY plane for as low cost as possible, I could stick with a freebie TF-51 + Caucasus map and make a silly argument it's "100% cheaper" than basic XP-11 content. So what? The problem is (and yes, I admit it is my "problem", if you want to call it that way) most of the planes I'm strictly interested in (warbirds and vintage jets - zero interest in any modern aviation) are available in good quality only as payware content (usually A2A and Milviz) for FSX/P3D. So are the good city sceneries for anything apart from US locations. Thus If I really wanted to sink my teeth into civvie sims now, it wouldn't be a question of me "insisting on sticking to FSX/P3D", but sadly, not having any goddamn alternatives. So yes, it would cost way more compared to promo deals I made with ED - for now, DCS, despite its pitiful shortcomings, is still better value for money for me, considering my aircraft preferences.

I'm not turning my blind eye on those shortcomings though. That's why I'm very curious about further development of XP11. Scenery-wise, I've seen some good results of OrthoXP being used, although even with relatively good XP auto-gen, custom-built sceneries are still necessary. Performance of 64-bit engine is also getting there. If only A2A changed their mind and decided to convert their P3D content to XP...

I sure hope they will, sooner or later. If they're smarter than ED business-wise, they can't stay and watch a hefty chunk of their customer base switching to new platform, without covering that platform as well.

#4356464 - 05/09/17 08:43 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: Art_J]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted by Art_J
most of the planes I'm strictly interested in (warbirds and vintage jets - zero interest in any modern aviation) are available in good quality only as payware content (usually A2A and Milviz) for FSX/P3D. So are the good city sceneries for anything apart from US locations. Thus If I really wanted to sink my teeth into civvie sims now, it wouldn't be a question of me "insisting on sticking to FSX/P3D", but sadly, not having any goddamn alternatives. So yes, it would cost way more compared to promo deals I made with ED - for now, DCS, despite its pitiful shortcomings, is still better value for money for me, considering my aircraft preferences.

Fair point! Thank you for making me realize that and apologies for my blindness in the matter.

However, my original point still stands. It just doesn't apply very much to you due to your preferences. Like I said, other sims offer a BIGGER MAP and a BETTER SELECTION of aircraft than DCS, so if "the joys of flying" was the issue, those other sims provide better value for money than DCS. Heck, even if you stick to FSX/P3D, I would've thought the VATSIM community alone makes for a much better immersion talking to "real" ATC compared to DCS' implementation.

Originally Posted by Art_J
I'm not turning my blind eye on those shortcomings though. That's why I'm very curious about further development of XP11. Scenery-wise, I've seen some good results of OrthoXP being used, although even with relatively good XP auto-gen, custom-built sceneries are still necessary. Performance of 64-bit engine is also getting there. If only A2A changed their mind and decided to convert their P3D content to XP...

I cannot recommend XP11 enough. I guess the main reason civvie sims never really caught on with me was because the places I wanted to fly in (usually my local area) only had the most basic of scenery and terrain mesh. I am unfortunate enough not to live near any major locations so I see the point of 3rd-party products not being interested in my local area. XP11 + Ortho4XP seems to be a very, VERY big step in the right direction as far as my "needs" go. EGNV is my local airport and I'm very, very impressed with how XP11 + Ortho4XP has allowed me to fly "IFR" -- I follow roads. There are some issues such as house placement on an open field or where the terrain clearly shows houses but no 3D scenery is placed, but these are things I'm willing to overlook as photo-real scenery was my only other option with the other sims and I'm sure you know how bad photo-real scenery looks when under 4,000ft AGL.

Whether your favorite aircraft will work with XP11 remains to be seen... I guess the initial question is whether they're available for XP10 in the first place... then whether these will work with XP11. A quick search shows a few aircraft available for XP10 at least... a Spitfire, a P38-J, a P-51, or a warbirds pack seem to be available... then again, no idea of the quality of these 3rd-party products. Quite annoying; 99% of 3rd-party aircraft are for FSX/P3D.

Carenado seems to be making aircraft for XP11 so if you were to consider modern civvie aircraft, suddenly you are exposed to a plethora of options and quite a big "map" to fly in.


- Ice
#4356836 - 05/11/17 04:36 PM Re: SALE!!! Buy something! [Re: - Ice]  
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Art_J Offline
Member
Art_J  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 337
Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted by - Ice
[quote=Art_J]

Whether your favorite aircraft will work with XP11 remains to be seen... I guess the initial question is whether they're available for XP10 in the first place... then whether these will work with XP11. A quick search shows a few aircraft available for XP10 at least... a Spitfire, a P38-J, a P-51, or a warbirds pack seem to be available... then again, no idea of the quality of these 3rd-party products. Quite annoying; 99% of 3rd-party aircraft are for FSX/P3D.

Carenado seems to be making aircraft for XP11 so if you were to consider modern civvie aircraft, suddenly you are exposed to a plethora of options and quite a big "map" to fly in.


Thanks, will do some research on these! I suppose I will end up buying XP11 eventually, but I'll wait a year more until it becomes more polished and until the modders and add-on makers produce more goodies for it. Unless P3D v4 becomes the best thing since sliced bread. I doubt it though, as for Lockheed Martin, entertainment-oriented software customers are still dirty peasants it seems.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Force10, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0