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#4351086 - 04/14/17 01:52 PM Sunday Strike  
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As part of ongoing air operations in SimHQ's Rolling Fire campaign, a strike mission is being planned by CENTAF. This mission will take place this Sunday, 4/16, step time TBA.

Any interested pilots should reply with preferred role (Escort, Strike or SEAD). The target has not been chosen, and will depend on the state of affairs at the time the server is paused and saved on Saturday. Early indications are the target will be Sunch'on airbase north of P'yongyang, but will be assessed at a later time.

The general plan is to frag a package strike consisting of three flights of four Vipers each. One to strike the base, and two to provide air and SEAD escort. I will fly lead on the escort, and Oden will lead the SEAD flight. That leaves plenty of slots to be filled and we could really use an experienced human to lead the strike flight.

Oden will send me the save later today and I will assess the map and assign the target and squadrons that will fly it. I will frag supporting missions ahead of time to clear the way a bit and provide things like fence in and out CAP, JSTARS and AWACS. Sweeps will conducted along the flanks. An EA-18G will provide jamming.

This will be an epic show and any interested F4 pilots should not miss out. We are using BMS version 4.33.3. Comms will be on SimHQ's teamspeak

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4314955/new-teamspeak-server-info#Post4314955

We all need to get our sh!t squared away ahead of time. I suggest each pilot fly a quick nav hop before joining the server to ensure all is working. No one wants to be the guy who gets in and finds his Track IR isn't working or he forgot to load his stick profile. I will ask Oden about a good step time for Sunday and we can get the server up a half hour ahead of time to give everyone plenty of time to review the mission and flight path, get his DTC and threats set up and get his jet loadout configured. Once everyone is set Oden can start the server.

I have one concern and that is the wonky AI wingman behavior we have experienced on the server so far. I am also not sure how to assign the aircraft. Having all 12 jets flying out of Osan would make for a better experience, but easily complicates things, especially if one of the AI decides to park on the taxiway. So I might frag the escort from a different airfield like Choongwon. SEAD needs to be Block 40s so that the SEAD pilots can load a HAD.

Server details can be found here

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4348535/bms-4-33-u3-dedicated-server#Post4348535

We'll get the details worked out over the next two days. So anyone interested please post here with your role and let's give the Reds the business! thumbsup



No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
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#4351107 - 04/14/17 03:15 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Put me down for a solid -maybe - smile



Not sure on plans yet

#4351110 - 04/14/17 03:32 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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#4351138 - 04/14/17 04:51 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: mac495]  
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Originally Posted by mac495

Not sure on plans yet


I'm confused.... you have plans to fly F4 with us Sunday. Get it together!


For anyone who might join up be sure you are familiar with the datalink. Check Krause's video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWyvJ99L2k4

Also, be sure to know how to check your timing to steerpoints

When I was on the server last night, Red air was smashed. So the escort lead should have an easy time of it biggrin

Of course, if China or Russia join it would change things a bit.

Once I am done fragging out the session I will make a detailed post with roles, squadrons, aircraft, callsigns and so on. Loadouts are left to the discretion of the flight leads or individual pilots.

Last edited by DBond; 04/14/17 04:54 PM.

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351158 - 04/14/17 06:09 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I'm in provided it's in a good timeslot. I'll need to be getting ready for work by 6pm so need to be finished or at least RTB by then.

I can lead the strike package if you want, are we doing a runway strike or just bombing buildings? Any reason we're leading a 4-ship? Why not just a 2-ship? Would be easier getting organized.

Also, please refrain from recommending Krause's videos as a "learning tool." His "tutorials" are riddled with errors and made during 4.32 was still in use... makes my hair stand on end everytime he gets a basic term or procedure wrong. Falcon is complex enough without having to have three left feet.


- Ice
#4351170 - 04/14/17 06:55 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Well I agree but it was the only vid I found on getting a package set up on the datalink. Do you know of a better one?

The four ship was because it was more dramatic. Big package as opposed to not so big package. But yes, please speak up now with anything you guys can think of.

I want to definitely shut down the base, so runway for sure. Buidlings should be considered secondary targets. Two free beers back at the O-Club for the tower biggrin


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351174 - 04/14/17 07:01 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I'm gonna read up on how to put a HARM through a Tower Window!

#4351184 - 04/14/17 07:51 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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That's what I keep sayin ' lol

(Replying to DB Sunday plans )

Last edited by mac495; 04/14/17 07:52 PM.
#4351198 - 04/14/17 08:53 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted by theOden
I'm gonna read up on how to put a HARM through a Tower Window!


Can you reprogram the seeker to home in on a iPhone 5? Intel says the controller owns one.

Quote
That's what I keep sayin ' lol

(Replying to DB Sunday plans )


Well it must be understood you see, that Major Mac is an integral part of the team, and missions like this don't come 'round every day. The fate of South Korea and her allies depends on it.




No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351211 - 04/14/17 11:33 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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OK, I've had a good look at the save. Assessing the situation I am changing the setup somewhat, though I do want to hear any thoughts from you guys.

What I see is an utterly smashed DPRK air force. I'd be surprised if they have 12 fighters alive in the theater. So I anticipate the Red air threat as minimal, though there is every chance we encounter something. Sunch'on airbase does house one MiG-29A and one MiG-19 squadron. As most F4 players know, the program doesn't always seem interested that a squadron has no planes. It still sends them up anyway. But I can't see us having to punch a hole through them at the FLOT and having air engagements all the way to and over the target.

The SAM threat at and near the target is extremely high however. There is one SA-2 battery at the airbase and several more, plus some SA-3s, in the general vicinity. And those are just the ones I can see from the JSTARS. Who knows what else lurks in the shadows?

So since the SEAD mission is so critical I want to frag two separate SEAD flights. My idea is to have these out ahead and to each flank of the strikers. Escort can be handled by the AI, plus every Viper will have four missiles anyway. Because there are so many SAM threats in the area, and since each Viper can only carry two ARMs, I want to switch to lead the second SEAD flight. You have to babysit the AI to get them shooting HARMs at multiple targets and it's very difficult to do in a four ship. So I will split it up in to two two-ships and lead the second one. That is potentially eight radars knocked out if all find their targets. Plus each SEAD ship is a surrogate escort.

Another pilot can feel free to lead the escort, that slot is now open. The AI does a competent job of it, but obviously should be more effective with a human in the lead ship.

There are two runways at Sunch'on. I want to leave it to the strikers to plan their own attack. We want to hit both runways to shut down the base. From what I see a deck run with durandals seems natural, but a high show with GBU or something else is good too. I will match the IP to target run to the runway heading of 340 so you'll be lined up properly for either type of attack. I will include target photo analysis in a follow up post. But I wanted to give a quick rundown on makeup now in case there are any objections or ideas.

If we have four pilots I think the best setup is two SEAD and two strikers. I can see two Vipers roaring over the runways side by side laying durandals down the strips. But that's kinda hollywood. Really cool though.

I would like to know soon if anyone else is in, as it helps me plan it. I'm proceeding as though Mac and Ice are both in. One thing we need to set is the meeting time for all of us. I'm good, so we need Ice's earliest time available and Oden to confirm that's workable. If I knew that we had two human strikers I could make the strike a two ship since I can be confident both runways would be knocked out (assuming no ghastly deaths enroute). Then we could trim this down to eight ships maybe -- 2 escort, 2x2 SEAD and 2 strikers. Perhaps fewer AI = fewer problems and if the escort is AI-only they should perform fine, no weird stuff I mean. If a human flies escort I will make it a two-ship, and if just AI escort, a four-ship.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351232 - 04/15/17 05:21 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I really need to start playing that second game inside Falcon, the strategic one smile
Thank you for taking time to analyze the whole situation.

Based on your findings, close to irrelevant red air and a whoop-ass SAM layer I think you're correct on the SEAD need.

If needed though, it is fairly doable to make control of a 3-ship flight by issuing "Attack my target" from HAD to element lead (2nd wingman rather).

Considering the low red air threat, could we have SEAD flights responsible to the "normal" escort? SEAD is an Escort Service after all (yes, I had to hahaha).

Finally, Durandals isn't Hollywood! All cool guys run in with durandals. Only weak cadets fly GBU!
/famous last words

#4351246 - 04/15/17 07:41 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I want to definitely shut down the base, so runway for sure. Buidlings should be considered secondary targets. Two free beers back at the O-Club for the tower biggrin

Anyone got any experience with AI performance on a runway strike? I've never done this with an AI wingman... Sunch'on has two runways so it'll need two strike aircraft. I've never really flown with AI very much, most of my flying has either been TE training (and I don't bother with the AI) or campaigns with human pilots and the AI F-16 is either RTB'ed ASAP or kept in tow as a replacement/backup aircraft.

I'd like to get a copy of the current save as well, if nothing but to start plotting FLOT lines and pre-planned threat steerpoints and finding the best way to ingress and attack.

I can start at around 4pm so 2 hours flying should be more than enough.


- Ice
#4351247 - 04/15/17 08:03 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Well I agree but it was the only vid I found on getting a package set up on the datalink. Do you know of a better one?

Dash 34 manual pages 34-47 for all your IDM needs, straight from the guys who've implemented the whole thing into BMS. The challenge with the IDM is that you need to fly with a human pilot to test and play around with it.


- Ice
#4351266 - 04/15/17 11:54 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Thanks for the replies. It's early AM here and I have to get to work. I'll post a few thoughts later. Here is Sunch'on as seen from the ingress heading of 340


[Linked Image]


And the SAM/AAA threat in the immediate target area.

[Linked Image]

Many of these have now had their radars shot out. There is however still a formidable AAA threat at the target, with several battalions just to the north and east and which are not visible here on JSTARS. They will be a factor coming off target.



Last night I spent fours hours going over this and planning it. I reached the conclusion that this mission may be too dangerous and was going to come back on and say we should do something else. I didn't want to get everyone together and go through all of the trouble just to be shot down at the target. So instead I sort of messed it up by deciding to soften up the target area first. Let's just say the SAM threat is no longer extreme.

Because of that I am considering flying Ice's wing an being the second striker. We don't know that Mac is attending so it makes sense for me to fly the strike to ensure the second runway is hit. We could always just have Ice drop three down one strip, and turn around and overfly the target a second time to hit the second strip with the other three. We all know that the defenses are less alert the second time biggrin

Ice, if you agree with using durandals I'm in.Apologies for so much flip-flopping but war is ever-changing.

Attached Files 2017-04-14_205836.jpg2017-04-14_213028.jpg
Last edited by DBond; 04/15/17 12:00 PM.

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#4351273 - 04/15/17 12:35 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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And I want to post this. I got a PM from a member who I won't name so I hope he doesn't mind, but it made me smile and I thought you guys would like to know.

"But I still get your SimHQ self generated emails and just love following you activities. Not just you, but every bodies. There's probably many others like me doing the same thing, so your "team" is maybe bigger than you think. Just keep it up, its a real pleasure for me.
Good flying."

How cool is that? thumbsup


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351276 - 04/15/17 12:57 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Very Cool smile

Good move putting one human on each runway.

How weak is SAM threat by now, should I consider 2xHARM and some iron on ai-wingmen (or vice-versa) to add mayhem on airbase buildings?

#4351277 - 04/15/17 01:18 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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It's not high. I would still give the wingman HARMs if it were me. There is every chance there are things I cannot see, or units could be replenished, what have you. I don't think one jet with bombs, especially an AI jet, could make much difference with bombs. But if he could take out a couple radars that would make a big difference.

The ingress route will be routed around all known defenses. Only as we near the target do I expect opposition. Be ever-vigilant however!

From step to shut down will be a little under one hour.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351279 - 04/15/17 01:21 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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If Mac is in he can fly SEAD with you. Or maybe Ice would prefer SEAD and Mac flies strike. I don't much mind who does what as long as everyone is comfortable with their role.

Last edited by DBond; 04/15/17 01:22 PM.

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#4351282 - 04/15/17 01:40 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Oh yeah, step time..... Oden, Ice said 4 PM London time. Is that workable? Let's get the time set.

According to the internet, 4 PM London time (+1 UTC) is 11 AM east coast USA time (UTC -4)

Last edited by DBond; 04/15/17 02:48 PM.

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#4351303 - 04/15/17 03:52 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Works for me (5 pm for me if I calc'ed correctly).

#4351308 - 04/15/17 04:04 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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For some reason, my brain thinks this is two days from now. LOL!! It is TOMORROW, right? smile

Three durandals may not be enough to consider a runway totally destroyed. Some people bomb runways based on "sections" as defined by the Falcon engine, some people bomb runways on "intersections" or when the runway intersects with a taxiway. Personally, I think that's too game-y, I bomb the runway by evenly spacing my 12 bombs along the entire length. Might not be the most "optimal" way of doing it in a game, but I think that's how real pilots would do something like this. It's not just denying them the runway, which 3 well-placed bombs could do; it's also ensuring that it's out of action for a long time.

The advantage of having human flights in the lead is that the strikers can delay their attack until the SEAD and escort guys have given the all clear. In an AI mission, you need to hit your steerpoints on time because like it or not, that strike package is coming in. Not so with a human-controlled group.

As for the threat picture above, I would not really be worried about AAA or anything without a radar. We'll probably be going in fast and low and won't see the airfield until we're on top of it; one-pass haul-ass. SA-2s shouldn't be an issue for us and looks like there's enough gaps in SA-3 cover. A hard right after the target should be enough to get us back to safety.

With regards to the "danger" element, don't worry about it. If it were a walk in the park, droping GBUs from 20,000 feet, it won't be memorable enough.


- Ice
#4351309 - 04/15/17 04:05 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
And I want to post this. I got a PM from a member who I won't name so I hope he doesn't mind, but it made me smile and I thought you guys would like to know.

"But I still get your SimHQ self generated emails and just love following you activities. Not just you, but every bodies. There's probably many others like me doing the same thing, so your "team" is maybe bigger than you think. Just keep it up, its a real pleasure for me.
Good flying."

How cool is that? thumbsup

That is so cool! smile I also didn't know SimHQ generated emails...


- Ice
#4351317 - 04/15/17 04:49 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, it is, I hope he doesn't mind and that I haven't broken some unspoken rule.

This will be a fairly long mission and I would advise taking wing bags, so just 6 durandals then. I like your comments on the strike Ice and it will be fun to strike it together.

I'll just space mine at 999 feet and let rip down the strip. Give the old guy the long one will ya?

Quote
With regards to the "danger" element, don't worry about it. If it were a walk in the park, droping GBUs from 20,000 feet, it won't be memorable enough.


I'm struggling with this. If I frag the mission from the save Oden sent, with no softening up, it will be a SAM trap of the first order. If i frag it as it exists now after the softening up, it could be rather mundane.

So do you guys want to fly the dangerous one or the not so dangerous one? The first one will be ten minutes of sheer terror biggrin

It'll be 20 minutes of formation, then 10 minutes of terror and mayhem, then, if you made it out, a 20 minute cruise home.




No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351322 - 04/15/17 05:02 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I wish I knew if Mac were in. Having two SEAD humans would make me much more comfortable flying the dangerous version. I seriously doubt we will see any air opposition. I agree with Ice about the SA-2s. But there is one at the base, with the Fan Song sitting at the southwest corner. That one must be taken out. My main concern is that they ambush in BMS and if it doesn't light until the strike then the SEAD couldn't get missiles on it until it's too late. The rest are manageable especially with a deck run. I can not account for any low level IR SAMs that may be nearby.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351326 - 04/15/17 05:20 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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So it looks to me like you guys will be on tomorrow @ 10 AM CDT, right?

If there is room for one more, I just might be able to swing it! Let me know, and I'll check back later tonight to confirm.


[Linked Image]
#4351329 - 04/15/17 05:43 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I'll just space mine at 999 feet and let rip down the strip. Give the old guy the long one will ya?

LOL!! That's what she said....

There's actually a way of getting a good measurement of the runway length, then find the proper spacing for your bombs. I can't remember if for example the runway was 5,000 feet, if I divide by 11 or by 12 to get the proper spacing. But anyway, once you have the proper spacing calculation, you input it on your drop profile, and you just pickle at the start of the runway, fly straight and level, and you'll evenly distribute your bombs along the entire length of the runway. Pair this up with a properly-configured countermeasure program and your attack could be: Start countermeasures, pickle first bomb, fly along the length of the runway, fly past the edge, then engage evasive egress. Timed properly, your countermeasure program would also finish just as you egress. Less workload for you during the whole attack run and you can just concentrate on your delivery platform being stable.


Originally Posted by DBond
I'm struggling with this. If I frag the mission from the save Oden sent, with no softening up, it will be a SAM trap of the first order. If i frag it as it exists now after the softening up, it could be rather mundane.

So do you guys want to fly the dangerous one or the not so dangerous one? The first one will be ten minutes of sheer terror biggrin

I'm all for the dangerous one. SA-2s shouldn't be an issue for us once we're in, it'll be the low-level IR stuff which we can't do anything about.


NOTE TO DBOND:
Please upload a mission (or email it to me if you've still not sussed out Dropbox, you old pilot!! biggrin ) for me to look at later on. I'd like to check the threats and plan our ingress. Like I said, I may not like acting like a general, but I do like planning my own flights wink


- Ice
#4351333 - 04/15/17 06:18 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
and you just pickle at the start of the runway, fly straight and level, and you'll evenly distribute your bombs along the entire length of the runway.


OK, glad you brought this up. This is the way it worked in old Falcon. The ripple 'started' at the CCIP designated point. So the first of the string fell on that spot. In AF it was changed so that the CCIP designated spot marked the center of the string. I have done one durandal strike since I got in to BMS and I think it was the AF way., the center of the string. Does anyone know for certain?

Quote

Please upload a mission (or email it to me if you've still not sussed out Dropbox, you old pilot!! biggrin ) for me to look at later on. I'd like to check the threats and plan our ingress. Like I said, I may not like acting like a general, but I do like planning my own flights wink


Yes, been at work all day so I'll send you something later tonight, sorry. I will have the IP set 10 miles from the airbase with a heading of 340 to match the runway in the files I send Oden and that will be loaded for the mission tomorrow.


Schnidrman!!! Yes sir, tomorrow 10 your time. That would be great if you could make it. Is it possible to confirm your participation? Mac? I will put up two SEAD flights of 2 Vipers each as outlined earlier so that Oden and Schnidrman/Mac can fly the SEAD. Five pilots would be great and I'm confident the SAMs could be dealt with.

Based on my work last night on this I will attempt to set up three 2-ships of Block 40's all out of Osan with a 2 minute interval between takeoff times. I suggest we go with runway instead of taxiway for this one.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351337 - 04/15/17 06:35 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
OK, glad you brought this up. This is the way it worked in old Falcon. The ripple 'started' at the CCIP designated point. So the first of the string fell on that spot. In AF it was changed so that the CCIP designated spot marked the center of the string. I have done one durandal strike since I got in to BMS and I think it was the AF way., the center of the string. Does anyone know for certain?

I seem to remember this as well, but AFAIK it's for CCRP. CCIP should drop at the start... how can you "designate" the middle of the runway when you're screaming over it at 500 knots at 500ft AGL? If you start your pickle at the middle of the runway, no way are you getting some bombs at the runway behind you.

Posted a question on the BMS forums for a more definitive answer.


Originally Posted by DBond
Based on my work last night on this I will attempt to set up three 2-ships of Block 40's all out of Osan with a 2 minute interval between takeoff times. I suggest we go with runway instead of taxiway for this one.

Taxiway would be best, as it would sort out any spawn issues we might have.


- Ice
#4351338 - 04/15/17 06:56 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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OK we will try taxiway, but I am concerned that if we have any AI they won't take off. We shall see!

If we set the takeoff time interval at 2 minutes, each flight needs to begin taxiing within 2 minutes of spawn to be sure the next jets don't spawn on top. I'm sure no one will sit there for 2 minutes though. And anyway, taxiway seems to mean spawn inside a hardened shelter at Osan.


Ice, you are an engineer by trade, aren't you? biggrin

Last edited by DBond; 04/15/17 07:10 PM.

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351344 - 04/15/17 07:41 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I'll check my availability tomorrow when I get home in a couple of hours.

Check the FRAG order of all the squadrons at the base to make sure there are no taxi conflicts. If you find a flight that will be close to our take-off time, change the take-off time for the conflicting flight or delete it if you can't de-conflict.


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#4351367 - 04/15/17 11:02 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Ok , I'm in..
Meet at 10 am central on TS , yes ?

#4351371 - 04/15/17 11:39 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Yes! Awesome. If we get Schindrman we have all six slots filled with humanoids. thumbsup

Duh, that's not true at all. Ice, Oden, Schnidrman, Mac and me is five.

Moses? ricunes? Need a sixth. Who out there has the stuff?


Last edited by DBond; 04/16/17 12:29 AM.

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351378 - 04/16/17 01:32 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to make it. Sorry to get your hopes up. I forgot it's Easter and have to be at my sister-in-laws.

I'll try to make the next flight.


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#4351384 - 04/16/17 03:51 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: mac495]  
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Originally Posted by mac495
Ok , I'm in..
Meet at 10 am central on TS , yes ?



Yes Mac, that is correct. Sorry you can't make it Schnidrman, but it is Easter after all. No worries.

Takeoff runway is 090 for the mission I believe based on wind direction. That could change of course. At Osan you can never quite tell where you will spawn. Usually 090 would be a taxi to the left, but it depends. Osan can be a confusing place so the first guy to roll hopefully heads the right way smile

If we have four, as we currently do, it would be best if the two SEAD guys lead each flight so you can deconflict targets and don't just have an AI flight shooting at the same ones. But I also fear that could leave us with two SEAD ships if the AI acts up on taxi.

The strikers will have a higher drag co of course, it's around 280 usually with two full TERs. If Ice takes 12 -107s that's alot more. So we might take a bit to get there biggrin timing isn't critical I think, and Cobra's carets will be two minutes behind Avenger's, with Stud's another 2 minutes after that. Escort will probably range ahead anyway to give the HARMs time to come down. But either Avenger or Cobra will have to fly either behind or ahead of their carets if they want to approach more or less abreast.

Ice, which runway is mine? Right or left? The fat one on the right is good for me, you know, old guys.

I'll send the .cam file to Oden sometime in the morning. It will give me time to get up and make any last minute changes based on anything you guys post in the meantime.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351392 - 04/16/17 06:24 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I plan to be on TS some T -30mins and doing some server work at T -20mins smile

#4351396 - 04/16/17 06:43 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Ice, you are an engineer by trade, aren't you? biggrin

Nope. I wonder where that statement came from...

Originally Posted by DBond
Ice, which runway is mine? Right or left? The fat one on the right is good for me, you know, old guys.

Since I'll be the lead and you'll be #2, then the appropriate statement for a good wingman is "I'll take the fat one!" biggrin



- Ice
#4351398 - 04/16/17 06:56 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I read your BMS thread Ice, do you plan to run a centerline tank and 12 Dur's?
Without any bags I think the flight back home might be your most dangerous part smile

If we SEAD guys can press hard enough you might actually pull it off without an ALQ under your belly.

#4351405 - 04/16/17 08:11 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, didn't realize the distance. Where does it show fuel calculations again?


- Ice
#4351406 - 04/16/17 08:24 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Looking at WDP and with a rough plan of 346nm trip distance, we could be landing with 1200lbs fuel. Very minimal loiter time and nearly no play time whatsoever. Any tankers around the FLOT? A top up on ingress would be ideal and would give the SEAD/Escorts time to sanitize the area. Looks like there's a KC-135 on station during takeoff time, but he's too close to Osan to really be beneficial, but I guess we can just top up the tanks for a few hundred pounds fuel.

A centerline would give another 2000lbs fuel but then how confident am I to be flying without a jammer? smile

Need to catch some ZZzzzs now guys, I'll leave the planning up to you. Please email me the final mission file later on, the one with our flights already fragged so I can put it on WDP. Seems like a lot of SA-2s south of the target, a few SA-3s as well. I'm having issues with CCIP drop profiles; like DBond said, the pickle location is NOT the start of the chain, it's the MIDDLE of the spread of bombs which isn't ideal for something like a runway attack. Might have to just drop singles instead.


- Ice
#4351408 - 04/16/17 08:59 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I stopped ripple Durandals a long time ago.
Nowadays I set ARM to 1.11 on both (not scientific numbers but easy to tap in) and go CCIP over target with program 4 dropping stuff behind me.
Just a suggestion.

#4351418 - 04/16/17 12:34 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Sorry Ice, the engineer quip was because you are analytical and seem to like to know how things work. No offense intended.


As to fuel.... Two 370s should be plenty. I expect to reach the target with gas still in the bags so fuel shouldn't be a problem and there won't be any attempt to top them off. It just won't be needed. There's always Mandumi to land on if you're short.

I plan to ripple 6. The center thing isn't ideal but it's workable. I did one not long ago on Tivat in the Balkans and it went well. The first bomb was short but at that time I didn't know how BMS handled it. I expect there to be small hills in the target area, so flying very low, like under 350 feet it might be difficult to pick up the target visually. So I will probably runa bit higher on ingress so I can get lined up visually. Airspeed will be around 540 knots so not much time to correct at the last minute. Sharp turns like this IP tend to offset me too far to the outside of the turn, so I plan to begin my turn just prior to the IP so that I am more likely to come in aligned with the strip. I sure hope you guys pop those SAMs! biggrin

I'll take the fat one on the right biggrin


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351421 - 04/16/17 12:53 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I see no need for any last minute changes. Cam file is going out to Ice and Oden.

Oden, you still have all the files you sent me in your campaign save folder right? If so this will just overwrite the .cam file and we should be good to go.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351423 - 04/16/17 01:16 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, the new cam file is loaded.

E-pilots, and lurkers, the biggest strike in this campaign is about to happen.
Stay tuned.

(I bet someone is going to forget to raise the gears or something biggrin )

#4351424 - 04/16/17 01:21 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Ice, here is my thinking for the strike. Climb out to 20-24k for the ingress. Around steerpoint 5 begin descending so that we are low by the IP. I expect no ground threat between 5 and the IP so we should be safe descending through here and by ingressing at altitude fuel and undetected low-level threats won't be an issue. I plan to take two 120s, two -9X, six -107s, two wing tanks, a jammer and a HAD. I might take a sniper pod but I don't see why I would use it here so might just leave it back at base. I will ripple all six Durandals with adequate spacing and a very short AD (1/2 second?) Then come off hard right as soon as the bombs are off. You can see in the target screen a city just to the northeast of the airbase. There are AAA battalions there that don't show on the JSTARS, so be careful overflying that urban area.

Does release angle mean anything with a level, low-level drop like this?


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351432 - 04/16/17 02:44 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Heading in shortly. Good luck lads!

See you over Sunch'on.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351532 - 04/17/17 05:43 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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About to update ded.server with the result of this combined effort smile

Maybe we could try to arrange these kind of coop-in-Campaign on every second/third weekend basis or so?
Like late Saturday between 9pm and midnight for Euro-Swe that makes late afternoon for US (well at least east coasters will be at 3 to 6pm I guess)?

If any aussie pilots are interested, what would that make for a possible time table?

#4351545 - 04/17/17 08:04 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Just read on BMS forum and realized popping durandals along the runway is the wrong way to do it biggrin

It seems the intended usage of Dur's is to drop them in a 30ft spacing cross the runway (runways) to cut it off like using a saw.

Now, since Falcon have the runways defined in 3 or 4 sections I would guess the ingame procedure of flying along the runway, like yesterday, will give us better results - no matter real life usage.

Like yesterday's OCA package having a 2-ship doing the OCA job we would, using "real life" tactics, only kill 4 runway sections at best (2 each on each runway) while I guess we got 6 or 7 in the runway-axis approach used.

Maybe we need to check up on how usuable Falcon consider a 4-section runway with one section destroyed?
Is the airbase/runway at 0% or 75% but not usable (I'm thinking Recon view showing 4x runway with one of them destroyed)?
Red Engineers will repair the single section in the same time consumed no matter if we put 1 or 6 durandals into it?

#4351577 - 04/17/17 11:55 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted by theOden
About to update ded.server with the result of this combined effort smile

Maybe we could try to arrange these kind of coop-in-Campaign on every second/third weekend basis or so?
Like late Saturday between 9pm and midnight for Euro-Swe that makes late afternoon for US (well at least east coasters will be at 3 to 6pm I guess)?

If any aussie pilots are interested, what would that make for a possible time table?


Count me in.

And yes, I think the program considers the runway section damaged or destroyed to the same degree regardless of how many weapons hit it. In our Balkans campaign I was dropping cluster bombs on engineers when they came to repair airfields after we had hit them. Easy target with a big effect in the campaign.

Last edited by DBond; 04/17/17 11:56 AM.

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351626 - 04/17/17 03:43 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Sorry Ice, the engineer quip was because you are analytical and seem to like to know how things work. No offense intended.

None taken. Just wondered why you'd say that... and you are right, I tend to over-analyze things and I do like to test stuff to see what works. smile

Originally Posted by DBond
I'll take the fat one on the right biggrin

Good man. wink


Originally Posted by theOden
Just read on BMS forum and realized popping durandals along the runway is the wrong way to do it biggrin

It seems the intended usage of Dur's is to drop them in a 30ft spacing cross the runway (runways) to cut it off like using a saw.

I'd like to know the real reason for that as well! My suspicion is that in real life, if we bombed the runway like we do in Falcon, the engineers can just make another runway to the left/right of the damaged one. Might be easier/faster than having to fix the damaged runway too. By angling the drop of -107s and maybe even making it perpendicular to the runway, you basically damage the ground around the runway as well making life more difficult for the engineers. They'll either have to stabilize the ground area or make a new runway parallel to the -107 attack axis but this may not be feasible due to existing taxiways and other airbase equipment.

Originally Posted by theOden
Now, since Falcon have the runways defined in 3 or 4 sections I would guess the ingame procedure of flying along the runway, like yesterday, will give us better results - no matter real life usage.

If you want to game the game, you only need to drop enough bombs to damage each section... so a long runway would have 4-5 sections as you can see on the recon screen. Set a precision steerpoing on each of those, drop a GBU on each, and you're done. Surgical, safer, but.... meh.


As for flights, I'm in provided I'm free smile


- Ice
#4352332 - 04/20/17 03:27 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted by theOden

If any aussie pilots are interested, what would that make for a possible time table?


In my case its the equipment that's the problem not the time. I'm moving house. First time in 50 years. Everything is everywhere ..... besides I still can't land the thing in one piece duh Maybe I just stay in the tower supervising take-off's and landings. hahaha


Gigabyte Ultra Durable 3 GA-EX58-UD4P motherboard, Intel i7 920 2.66Ghz/8Gb RAM chip set (only 3.5Gb available with XP & 32bit system), NVIDIA GeForce GTX275 video card, Realtek ALC850 sound circuitry, OS XP Home SP3, Samsung 21"(4x3)Flat LCD, TM Cougar joystick, TrackIR 3Pro, Logitech G330 Headset, ConnectAccess621 ADSL2/2 Router.
XP Home SP3, Running Falcon 4AF, 1.013 Patch, High Tiles (winter).
#4352333 - 04/20/17 03:40 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, let's get the boys downunder in this. Then we would really have around the clock bombing campaign. Never let 'em sleep!

Durrie has been here a few times and said he is getting in to it, but I haven't heard much else.

Wombat, we would love to have you join us if you can get your setup squared. I'd be happy to help you with landings. Get set up, let's meet up (I can host) and we'll be landing like butterflies with sore feet in no time smile


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4352342 - 04/20/17 04:07 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Butterflies you say - does that include landing in DBond-Weather-Map-Conditions?

biggrin

(Would love to have you with us Wombat)

#4352355 - 04/20/17 05:28 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Shouldn't be too hard to get you squared away with landings smile


- Ice
#4352517 - 04/21/17 12:55 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: - Ice]  
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Thanks boys. Unfortunately its a bit more complicated than that. Once I'm set up in my new home, I head to Kuta, Bali for 6 months in mid June. I'm involved with turtle conservation in Kuta and the only "game" I can play there is Crossfire 2.0. All it needs is a notebook with keyboard and a mouse. Ha! However I still have my TM gear, etc and its going with me to my new home. Providing the NBN works with sufficient speed I would love to get back into flying again. Please stay tuned. Thanks again.


Gigabyte Ultra Durable 3 GA-EX58-UD4P motherboard, Intel i7 920 2.66Ghz/8Gb RAM chip set (only 3.5Gb available with XP & 32bit system), NVIDIA GeForce GTX275 video card, Realtek ALC850 sound circuitry, OS XP Home SP3, Samsung 21"(4x3)Flat LCD, TM Cougar joystick, TrackIR 3Pro, Logitech G330 Headset, ConnectAccess621 ADSL2/2 Router.
XP Home SP3, Running Falcon 4AF, 1.013 Patch, High Tiles (winter).
#4352524 - 04/21/17 01:28 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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No worries. Falcon has been here for 14+ years so I'm sure we'll be around when you come back smile Enjoy your vacation!


- Ice
#4352629 - 04/21/17 05:05 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Say hi to the turtles from me, wonderful creatures they are.

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