#4342438 - 03/06/17 08:55 PM
Re: Normandy Terrain
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
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There are ways and means to point out your frustration at ED and the sims flaws... Derailing every thread in a campaign of hatred is surely not one of them? You seem to be lost, my friend. Check out the first post on this thread.... this isn't "derailing" at all. Yet it is allowed to happen in virtually every single thread on the SimHQ DCS subforum, is anyone actually bothering to manage this forum anymore because it is utterly abysmal at the moment. You do know there's that other, more reputable forum where everyone sings kumbaya, holds hands, and drinks from the same Kool Aid jar, right? If this sub forum's content and management bothers you so much, you are totally free NOT to come here, NOT to read the forums, and NOT to post a reply just as we are free to come here, read the forums, and post a reply. If that's not enough, please cite where we are breaking forum rules by discussing ED's flaws and our frustrations? Also LOL @ "campaign of hatred." More like "campaign of irrefutable truths" that the Pro-ED side cannot refute so instead whine about the POSTERS instead of the content of the POST.... so yet again, we have someone that just proves our point regarding the ED fanboys. It looks like the autumn scenario is well underway Nice pics.... pity we're not here for the screenshots but rather for the simulation. Now it's so easy to go online and find a dozen voices willing to parrot the same rhetoric back and forth, so why should anyone bother to examine their beliefs or feelings? If I can find 15 people who agree with me, well, we can't ALL be wrong, can we? We must be RIGHT, and THEY must be wrong. And that's why an argument based on facts cannot be easily countered. We're not talking about whether DCS is enjoyable as "enjoyable" is subjective. You can find 50 people that don't enjoy it and you can find 50 people that do enjoy it. When the conversation shifts to the empty world, missed deadlines, and broken product, no amount of enjoyment of the sim can deny these truths. When the conversation shifts to the mind-boggling decision to spread themselves so thinly, to separate work into three dev branches, and how it's holding back the sim development, no amount of fanboy rage can counter the logic presented. That's when we start to see statements like: "If you don't like it, why are you here??" "This forum suxx, I don't come here anymore because of all of the negativity!" "You guys should re-examine your life priorities!" "The moderators of these forums are clearly favoring the Anti-ED group, they get away with bloody murder!!"And with that, I just and take a knee because I know they've realized they have to go rogue...
- Ice
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#4342439 - 03/06/17 09:06 PM
Re: Normandy Terrain
[Re: - Ice]
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 507
JG52Krupi
Member
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Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 507
180
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LOL that makes it even worse.... sigh
Last edited by JG52Krupi; 03/06/17 09:06 PM.
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#4342441 - 03/06/17 09:10 PM
Re: Normandy Terrain
[Re: JG52Krupi]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
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I agree, social media has a lot to answer for... “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."-George Carlin
- Ice
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#4342514 - 03/07/17 08:46 AM
Re: Normandy Terrain
[Re: - Ice]
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 29
JakeR
Junior Member
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Posts: 29
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If you attack the poster and not the point, you are admitting you cannot counter their argument. Either because you realize it is valid, or you are incapable of forming a cogent counterargument. In effect, you are admitting defeat.
Just because someone types in all capitals, full of profanity, in numerous locations, that they had their legs chopped off by a drunk driver doesn't mean that their opinion can be discounted. Their inability to form their point effectively does not automatically negate it.
Trying to recategorize their arguments as pointless hysteria by ignoring them repeatedly until they get frustrated and THEN saying "oh look at the whiner!" is likewise an admission that they only way you can counter them is by cheating. Exactly true, Jedi, and a sentiment I discussed in this thread. It's amazing how the symptoms manifests once they realize the position they're in. It's quite sad that they can't admit even to themselves that what the "other side" is saying is true. I agree for the most part that DCS is more of a procedural sim first and foremost for many years, that part comes from the early procedural simulations they mainly build for the military and other markets. But that's not the spiel they give when they market their products. Even so, that is not the only shortcoming of ED. The mi-17 would be one example (we know of) of aircraft that was built first for a training sim that we get to fly now, wasn’t the L-39 Albatros the same, and built for someone? And how many bought those modules? Versus how many would buy a Hornet/Tomcat/Apache module? I get the long betas and alpha builds with level and depth of the system modeling going on. The weapons, weapon fragmentation and AI would be the big things that should be hi-priority, well I hope they are, these things are really the main things holding DCS back from becoming not just a very good simulation, and average “game” experience, but a great experience across the board. But the long beta/early access period is not spent on fixing the module or the weapons or the AI. How do I know this? Because issues with the missiles still exists. AI is still dumb. Module(s) with activation issues still have activation issues. Things that people expect to be high-priority, needs-to-be-fixed go for years without getting fixed... and then we see ED move on to different projects. Somebody tell me that the DCS patching process no longer feels like 2 steps forward, 3 steps back and I'll be impressed. New campaigns come out and new patch comes out to support the campaign. Seriously? That's like MS Word releasing the 2017 version and you'll need to patch Windows to accomodate it, then MS Excel comes out and you'll need to patch Windows again. You know they will get to a good level across the board, not just with great systems and FM’s, one day and you will be proved wrong Ice, you can laugh all about this from your bed in the retirement home when it's done, LOL. And I'll rule the world one day so you all better bow down to me now??!! No, it doesn't work like that. Get to a good level FIRST, then I'll be proven wrong. Until then, they're just making a mockery of themselves. I don't even want to be right; I'd so much love it to be proven wrong, but that's not really up to me now, is it? I think the licensing have a lot to do with what can be done here? At the level and depth of detail ED can do things, this would require “proper licensing” to release these accurate simulations to the public. So why did a 3rd party group get licensing to the Tomcat and not ED? And why just now? How old is DCS? How old is ED? Surely they know which aircraft(s) would sell like hotcakes.... but no, let's do trainer aircraft instead. This could be a reason other things have not changed in years? ED may have more very accurate info on some weapons and systems and cannot use the data they already have without crossing a line somewhere (Upset the Client) and are waiting on how much they can use for the public side (Red tape). Would this limit what they can even say in public too about it and why no updates? NDA's Weak argument. So they're stuck? Build systems and simulations to this level of detail, can stop you building some of the sims you want to build for the consumer market and make good money? If you just make a “game” and guess at systems this is OK to do right with no license?
So stuck between building a sim “Game” and Military “Simulations” and what your allowed to release to the public. mmmm Hmmm.... you're starting to sound like one of the other posters who used to post here.... [quote=Ells228] Sorry guys, VEAO will not be developing the Apache for public release. We are still aiming to develop a military version pending contracts and future military development for DCS.
Can't go into reasons due to NDA's sorry. Cop out. So there could be an Apache AH-64 or F16 etc out there now, damn it. Was hoping Combat Helo was going to fill the void for a new AH-64 chopper sim, looks like it's not going ahead now. Someone should do one even at the combat air patrol 2 level would be good. Could've, would've, should've. No beef here, I totally agree with you guy's on how frustrating it is to wait soooo long for ED to get things done and or updated, definitely not making any excuses for them here, only an observation and throwing some theories around as we do and are allowed to do here, hehe. NDA's would be very real I think and not a "cop out" ED has military ties from the A10 days so we know that there would be NDA's for that and potentially have many more. We don't know and they can't say lol. ED's direction is the problem on the consumer side, not on the commercial sim and military side for their business. This is why they cleanse the forum too right? So it looks more professional to potential clients in both markets. Do you guy's think it's like 70/30 focus on commercial sim and military side vs consumer side over the last few years? I only hope when 2.5 is out, they have been working hard on many many things behind closed doors. We will see, hopefully sooooooon. I know some don't like this developer VEAO, these lines give me a little hope. DCS itself has come on leaps and bounds with the latest installments and we can't wait to develop systems and functionality for what is yet to come <no spoilers>. You will see vast improvements in technology for DCS; VR being a classic example of this and we are excited to announce some partnerships early in the New Year, so keep an eye out for announcements!! post
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#4342565 - 03/07/17 03:15 PM
Re: Normandy Terrain
[Re: JakeR]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
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Amazing
The universe couldn't produce a more perfect response even if it tried *takes a knee* I totally agree with you guy's on how frustrating it is to wait soooo long for ED to get things done and or updated, definitely not making any excuses for them here, only an observation and throwing some theories around as we do and are allowed to do here, hehe. Reasonable theories and observations are welcome here, despite what other people may whine and moan about! NDA's would be very real I think and not a "cop out" ED has military ties from the A10 days so we know that there would be NDA's for that and potentially have many more. We don't know and they can't say lol. Totally understand about NDA, but if you have something you can't say, don't open the topic in the first place! It's just mean to tell people you have something they want... but they can't have it. Why? "Reasons we can't say due to NDA"ED's direction is the problem on the consumer side, not on the commercial sim and military side for their business. This is why they cleanse the forum too right? So it looks more professional to potential clients in both markets. They can show their professionalism in so many, MANY other ways that do not involve nuking posts from orbit. Those ways, though more complex and delicate, would paint them in a MUCH better light to all clients. I know some don't like this developer VEAO, these lines give me a little hope. DCS itself has come on leaps and bounds with the latest installments and we can't wait to develop systems and functionality for what is yet to come <no spoilers>. You will see vast improvements in technology for DCS; VR being a classic example of this and we are excited to announce some partnerships early in the New Year, so keep an eye out for announcements!! post Talk is cheap. Proof is in the pudding and we'll know how good it is when we can get it and not before, and not on the words of some "internal tester." We all know how "efficient" these guys are. As for VR development, while that is cool, it's yet another area that ED is putting resources into that is not really needed. IMHO, better put those resources into testing and bug squishing. As an owner of an HTC Vive, I can honestly say that they'll best be served by fixing the things that are broken, not developing YET new stuff that can break. Like I said before... how many people own a Vive or a Rift? How many people can benefit from these advancements? Compare that number with the people who will benefit from bug squashing and stable releases that are not "two steps forward, three steps back"?
- Ice
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#4342603 - 03/07/17 06:02 PM
Re: Normandy Terrain
[Re: - Ice]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
Force10
I'm just a
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I'm just a
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
CA
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Let's say we take a time out from the sniping for a bit. I will open the thread back up after everyone takes a moment to collect their thoughts.
Last edited by Force10; 03/07/17 06:03 PM.
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