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#4340628 - 02/27/17 07:05 AM WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far)  
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EJAK Offline
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Hi all!

Here's an edited version of a post I made over at SOH. Long story short I want WOFF: UE more than anything, but having recently bought an Oculus Rift, I've been trying to get it to work in CFS3 with the DX9 mod before I buy WOFF.

Here are my results so far, and I would urge anyone with a Virtual Reality headset to try the same in WOFF and see if the results are different!

1. Firstly you'll need a program that can make any game into VR. You can use Vorp X for 40 USD, but I personally use Vireio Perception, a free alternative. (Make sure you get the latest of Vireio version 3, as version 4 only works on DX11 programs and newer).

2. Unzip Vireio perception to a folder on your PC, go into the /bin folder and copy over all .dll files into your WOFF root folder - make sure it's the folder that your main .exe is located in (Unsure whether to use the normal ones, the 64 bit versions, or all of them). The dll files are d3d9.dll, hijackdll.dll, libfreespace.dll & vrboost.dll (or their 64 bit counterparts)

3. Once the .dll files are copied over, go back into the /bin folder and run perception.exe as administrator, make sure the drop down boxes have the correct options selected for your monitor and VR and boot up your game.

- Now, when I do this in CFS3 ETO, it tries to boot in VR, loads up a bit, and then crashes to desktop. I would be interested in seeing if this is the same with WOFF, and if it is the same, a fix for this would also be a fix for CFS3 (and the upcoming WOTR)

If you get it working, please reply to this thread and post your results below! I'd love to see someone get WOFF working in VR!

Best hopes, and best of luck,

Jack

Last edited by EJAK; 02/27/17 07:07 AM.
#4340643 - 02/27/17 09:31 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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Remember CFS3 is originally DX8, not DX9.

AnKor has made CFS3 use the newer DX9 through his new ".dll's" in WOFF UE, so that might be your problem.

#4340687 - 02/27/17 11:55 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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4L0M Offline
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My girlfriend bought a new phone last week, an UMI Z, so when she was looking on Amazon for new cases, etc, she came across an UMI 3 VR headset for a whopping £13 so she bought it. It turned up Saturday, and after her playing games on it and watching stomach churning videos of being on various rollercoasters, I had a look.

I have a Nexus 6 phone which has a 6" superamoled screen and a resolution of 2560x1440p. I downloaded a program called Trinus VR on my phone ( free trial version which gives you 15 min trials ) and the Trinus VR server software on my pc which is also free..

Start the app on your phone, then start the server on your pc, they should then sync together and you can play what you want on your pc. Apparently, you can also hook Tridef or various other third parties into the api for even more options.

My testing :

Dark Souls only viewed in one eye ( But I am using DSFIX ) and downsampling it from 4k, so maybe that is a problem.

Fallout 4 doesn't work, but again I start it from FO4SE with 200 mods, so maybe that is a problem..........and WOFF worked :


[Linked Image]


Proof I was using my phone :

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


Headtracking in game works ( although needs a bit of tweaking ) and this method has the bonus of ZERO wires ( and is ridiculously cheap ). It appeared to be running about 55 frames a second with both devices connected wirelessly to an Asus RT-AC68U router,. using the Ultra Quality setting.

I literally only messed about with it for 20 mins, so haven't had chance to look into it much yet.


TrinusVR supports PSVR and SteamVR, not sure about Oculus, but the above proves that if a crappy £13 headset can do it, then I'm sure you can find a way for the Oculus to manage it and no doubt with far better results.

So persevere, and Good Luck !


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#4340691 - 02/27/17 12:47 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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There is a discussion on the RoF forum with some tentative VR for WOFF mentioned

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4309461/vr-support#Post4309461

#4340950 - 02/28/17 02:40 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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HumanDrone Offline
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My brother-in-law would be heartbroken... he sits beside me while I fly just to watch, and occasionally jumps in himself!

But seriously, I tried Samsung's version at a Best Buy store recently, as my wife wanted to check it out for my son (they tried it, too). And she, who still knows zip-zero-nada-nuttin' about tech (she still has a flip phone..) was sold! So we're hoping to get her a compatible phone and a headset for my son - and now, possible Dad too, for when the brother-in-law isn't handy.

I'm curios 4L0M, did you get any 3D effect (i.e. stereo vision) out of that? It could be a huge selling point!


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#4340956 - 02/28/17 03:07 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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Having WOFF work with VorpX or Vireio is going to be tricky, because the dx9 mod in previous versions and the current dx9 shaders for UE rely on the use of a file posing as the directx dll file in the directory of WOFF. VorpX is not compatible with that (ie there must be no directx dll in the game directory) and as far as remember vireio was supposed to work like that too. If we wanted to have some VR added, it would need to hook to Ankhor's mods to add stereoscopy + head tracking, or it would need to be part of Ankhor's code.
I've been slowly working on an attempt to code a VR plugin for WOFF UE, but currently I'm stuck with some initial issues, some of it related to what I've explained just above and others just linked to the poor openVR/steamVR documentation (i.e. there is not really what I'd call a "documentation", it's a mess, so I've got to find samples and other people's advices to understand how to code that). Combined with my lack of spare time I'm not hoping to get something done before months (and that's if I can overcome some potential blockers such as solving the need to go CFS3 dx8 > ankhor's dx9 solution > openVR need for dx11). I'm highly motivated though, there's nothing I'd like to see more than a ww1 sim in VR

#4340959 - 02/28/17 03:14 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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I have 'free fused' these images and there isn't any disparity in them to create the 3-D illusion. Am I missing something here? I have better than 40" arc stereopsis and my visual acuity is ~20/08 to 20/10 (norm is 20/20). I am not a technical person but one image needs to be created with a slight delay in order to cause a 3-D effect.

#4340992 - 02/28/17 09:55 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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40LM said that they are not 3D without saying they are not 3D.

The Tridef he mentions in his post is what would be required to make it 3D, if that would work, which is not guaranteed.

Getting true VR (3D) is what is the real challenge.

Vorpx will and does work with most titles in that it can display a 2D image in the headset.
But that is not ideal, it's the 3D you need to get the real feel of VR as implemented in DCS and War Thunder.

I have a DK2 and managed to get RoF working in 2D VR with Vorpx, but without 3D it was not a positive experience. Unlike DCS which implements VR quite well. You really do feel like you are "in" the cockpit.
2D VR still feels like looking at a low res monitor frown

Have given up on VR for now, I only really play RoF and WOFF and only fired up DCS to play with VR.

But If WOFF at least gets a true VR solution, that will be the catalyst that makes me buy a Cove

#4341070 - 02/28/17 03:54 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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4L0M Offline
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Basically what Steve_F said, you need to hook whatever VR software you are using Tridef or something similar for 3D, although some software does have a 3D mode included. The above pics were just a demonstration that it could be done, obviously I didn't have the phone in the VR at the time, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to reach the haredware buttons to actually take the screenshots.

I have only scratched the surface of whats possible. Look on YouTube for a ton of videos of various VR workarounds and hooking API's like Tridef or something similar.


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#4341197 - 03/01/17 01:01 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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Another thing to keep in mind is latency - for a nice sim sickness free dogfight in WOFF in VR we'll need the lowest latency possible. Before I got a Vive, before I first got a DK2, I also tried smartphone systems - they were fun but the latency between the imprecise head tracking mechanism and its effect on the screen was huge, and that's no good at all for a comfortable experience.

This is not an issue at all if you'd implement VR by simply hooking to a native DX11 or DX12 simulator to connect to an existing VR HMD, be it a Rift or a Vive - the latency is then really tiny. But add anything in between and it can become an issue. I mentioned that I'm facing a potential road block in implementing VR for WOFF as a mod if what I do is hook into Ankhor's DX9 shaders to then translate all the directX calls again into DX11, which then lets me connect to openVR (ie the API that lets me handle stereo 3D and head tracking). As you can see, what happens then is that we're adding a lot of intermediate steps, first to go DX8->DX9 and then again DX9->DX11, and everytime we translate these DX calls we're adding a bit of latency, which might be too much in the end (although that remains to be tested basically).

Stereo3D wouldn't be an issue at all - with the openVR API it's dead easy, there's a function that does it for you, same thing with connecting the viewport to the head tracking data. The hard part of both existing ww1 flight sims is that they are using old engines based on old DX versions. A smart coder will find way around that, some people certainly did that for old DX8 games before, but I'm not experienced in that sort of coding so I won't venture there. Still, hang in there, I remain cautiously optimistic that I can do something in the future, just be patient and give me several months to do so.

#4341205 - 03/01/17 01:49 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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HumanDrone Offline
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well, until then I can still get worn to a frazzle flying WOFF on he monitor! Even without VR it's the most beautiful sim I've ever seen. It's a shame i can't get at it more.... Ah, I turn 62 in the fall... maybe... maaaayyyybeee! pilot


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX580 OC'd / 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
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Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition (more gorgeous than ever!)
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#4341435 - 03/02/17 08:46 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: FlyingMonkey]  
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Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey
Another thing to keep in mind is latency - for a nice sim sickness free dogfight in WOFF in VR we'll need the lowest latency possible. Before I got a Vive, before I first got a DK2, I also tried smartphone systems - they were fun but the latency between the imprecise head tracking mechanism and its effect on the screen was huge, and that's no good at all for a comfortable experience.

This is not an issue at all if you'd implement VR by simply hooking to a native DX11 or DX12 simulator to connect to an existing VR HMD, be it a Rift or a Vive - the latency is then really tiny. But add anything in between and it can become an issue. I mentioned that I'm facing a potential road block in implementing VR for WOFF as a mod if what I do is hook into Ankhor's DX9 shaders to then translate all the directX calls again into DX11, which then lets me connect to openVR (ie the API that lets me handle stereo 3D and head tracking). As you can see, what happens then is that we're adding a lot of intermediate steps, first to go DX8->DX9 and then again DX9->DX11, and everytime we translate these DX calls we're adding a bit of latency, which might be too much in the end (although that remains to be tested basically).

Stereo3D wouldn't be an issue at all - with the openVR API it's dead easy, there's a function that does it for you, same thing with connecting the viewport to the head tracking data. The hard part of both existing ww1 flight sims is that they are using old engines based on old DX versions. A smart coder will find way around that, some people certainly did that for old DX8 games before, but I'm not experienced in that sort of coding so I won't venture there. Still, hang in there, I remain cautiously optimistic that I can do something in the future, just be patient and give me several months to do so.


WWI in VR smile
I'll Try and be patient smile

#4341438 - 03/02/17 09:21 AM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: FlyingMonkey]  
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EJAK Offline
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Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey
Having WOFF work with VorpX or Vireio is going to be tricky, because the dx9 mod in previous versions and the current dx9 shaders for UE rely on the use of a file posing as the directx dll file in the directory of WOFF. VorpX is not compatible with that (ie there must be no directx dll in the game directory) and as far as remember vireio was supposed to work like that too. If we wanted to have some VR added, it would need to hook to Ankhor's mods to add stereoscopy + head tracking, or it would need to be part of Ankhor's code.


I believe you've hit the nail on the head here. I'll keep checking back to see if you get this worked out in future! biggrin

All the best!

#4345103 - 03/17/17 07:19 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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Patiently waiting and loving flying with the Rift in AH3, DCS and XP11 while I wait smile

I can't go back to a screen now even with the slightly lower res.

#4345394 - 03/19/17 01:38 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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Maybe two head trackers can be incorporated into the system to get the stereoscopic disparity needed??? One for each side of the screen????

#4345404 - 03/19/17 02:52 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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Just use Tridef3D. There is a free unlimited 14 day trial if you want to give it a go.

The video I posted a few weeks ago used Tridef3D. This was with the stock Tridef3D profile, I didn't bother even trying to edit the profile in anyway to get even better results. Just add the Woff.exe and off you go. Takes 30 secs to setup.



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#4345409 - 03/19/17 03:22 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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Hello 4L0M, could you please tell us what kit you are using to the 3D in the above post?

Kind regards

Danny

#4345413 - 03/19/17 03:39 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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4L0M Offline
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I'm not using anything special, just put my TV into 3D mode, (obviously you need to be outputting your pc to a 3D capable display) load up Tridef3D, add woff.exe, start woff with Tridef3D, put on 3d glasses, that's it.

Tridef3D works with HMD's like rift and vive too, there is a free regkey download on Tridef3D forum to work with rift/vive, although I personally haven't tried it yet.


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#4345416 - 03/19/17 03:50 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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Cheers 4L0M, top man. Also, thank you for your Mods.

#4345422 - 03/19/17 04:08 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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4L0M

I would be interested in your analysis of the 3d effects you get. I dont currently have 3d glasses and have no practical experience in evaluating 3d. How good does it appear to be. Is it entry level quality or is it very good?

Best regards.


(System_Specs)
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#4345426 - 03/19/17 04:22 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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4L0M Offline
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They work the same as any other 3D really. Sense of cockpit scale is great, it feels like you are in it, but still for me personally, I find 3D a "fun" diversion for an hour, but personally think it's relatively pointless all told.

There is zero chance I could play in 3D for long periods, not because I get any sickness, but it's just not as good personally than 2D.

BUT.......I am very interested in a Rift, OSVR HDK2 or Vive. This is where the immersion factor should really kick in. I am debating on purchasing a HMD this week, so we will see what happens.

The above just proves that Tridef3D along with Trinus/Vorpx etc, means that a specific game may not have to have native VR support to get it working with HMD/VR headsets.


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Asus Maximus Hero VII
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Corsiar 760t
#4345444 - 03/19/17 05:14 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: 4L0M]  
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Originally Posted by 4L0M
They work the same as any other 3D really. Sense of cockpit scale is great, it feels like you are in it, but still for me personally, I find 3D a "fun" diversion for an hour, but personally think it's relatively pointless all told.

There is zero chance I could play in 3D for long periods, not because I get any sickness, but it's just not as good personally than 2D.

BUT.......I am very interested in a Rift, OSVR HDK2 or Vive. This is where the immersion factor should really kick in. I am debating on purchasing a HMD this week, so we will see what happens.

The above just proves that Tridef3D along with Trinus/Vorpx etc, means that a specific game may not have to have native VR support to get it working with HMD/VR headsets.


Many thanks for the explanation 4L0M. It's much appreciated, and I look forward to your analysis of things if you go ahead a purchase HMD. Which models are you considering?

Best Regards;

Last edited by Robert_Wiggins; 03/19/17 05:17 PM.

(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4352600 - 04/21/17 04:17 PM Re: WOFF and Virtual Reality (My Research so Far) [Re: EJAK]  
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I just tried WOFF on the HTC Vive using the VorpX software. At least I was able to get some 3D view from cockpit. The 3D quality isn't as good as in FlyInside or some other flight simulations. Also, the fps rate was only at 45. But there's great potential.

Nevertheless, my head rotation was mapped to a mouse movement which isn't quite helpful in WOFF. Therefore, I had a static cockpit view. Is there some way to map mouse movement to head rotation? (The mouse look helper tool dropbox link does not work anymore.)

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