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#4335994 - 02/10/17 11:27 AM Campaign Wackiness  
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The_3rd_Guru Offline
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Tokyo
I have a question for anyone who would care to answer.

I've been going through a campaign of the L'Escadrille Américaine, which you all are probably sick of hearing me talk about!

The whole squadron started off with Nieuport 10C1s. All of us - including me - flew these for the first four missions together. After that last mission, everyone in the squadron got Nieuport 16s except for me and the randomly generated captain of our squadron. (All members are historical aces except for me, of course, and the captain.)

On our next mission as we took off and began to enter into our formation, the Nieuport 16s rocketed away at full speed leaving me and the randomly-generated captain far behind in our Nieuport 10s. I tried my all to catch up with them, but they were out of sight before long. The captain was also out of sight behind me. He even had trouble catching up to me for some reason.

I had mapped out our course on a paper map which I had in my lap. I decided to fly the mission as I would normally since I had invested so much time filling out the map and calculating the angles and directions to fly. (I always spend a lot of time preparing all of this.) I flew the exact course. We were to patrol over the front lines. I followed these plans exactly and I spent my normal 22 minutes or so patrolling before I headed back following the course home.

For this whole trip I never saw one other plane, not mine nor the Hun's. I flew pretty much exactly where we were all to fly (as exact as it could be copying the course down onto paper from the inferior briefing room map). However, there seemed not to be another soul in sight.

I was able to fly all the way back to our aerodrome, and when I got there, I noticed that three of the other four members of my flight were landing! I too then came in for a landing, and after doing so and shutting down my engine right next to the remaining members of my flight, I ended the mission. At the debriefing screen, I realized that everyone had been in a battle! The missing pilot from our flight had been shot up and had to make a forced landing. All the others had been in battle too, and two had made claims.

However, the only people who had not seen battle were me, of course, and the randomly-generated captain. I find it no mere coincidence that we were the only pilots in Nieuport 10C1s!

This was all kind of frustrating instead of cool and immersive. (Obviously, in real life the squadron would never in a million years leave behind two members in slower planes!)

So I was wondering . . . Does anyone know what happened to me? Was this a glitch or a bug? Is this a common occurrence? Is there some way I can prevent this from happening again?

Thank you to anyone who can help.

#4335995 - 02/10/17 11:31 AM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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Raine Offline
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It happened more often earlier, and then the devs adjusted cruising speeds in mixed formations. It can happen a bit, but not as dramatically as you describe. Are you sure your mixture was right?

#4335998 - 02/10/17 11:41 AM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: Raine]  
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The_3rd_Guru Offline
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Tokyo
Originally Posted By: Raine
Are you sure your mixture was right?


Thank you for answering, Raine.

And, considering that my mixture control barely does anything, yeah, it was correct. I had a full rich mixture for take off. And, like I said, the other Nieuport 10C1 was left behind, too. I could see him far behind me lagging behind until he vanished, too.

Normally, the flight leader circles the aerodrome waiting for all of us to form up. But I could see him forming up with the two other Nieuport 16s. I was trying to catch up with them to form on the side, but they just flew off. They didn't wait for me or the captain in his Nieuport 10.

It was strange. I'm just disappointed that I missed all the action!

#4336000 - 02/10/17 11:55 AM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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lederhosen Offline
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If the leader has a better crate then he don't wait for you. The only way to avoid this is to set yourself as flight leader. Now this may of changed, but I normaly lead to avoid this sort of thing.


make mistakes and learn from them

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#4336006 - 02/10/17 12:09 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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gaw1 Offline
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also......alot yourself less fuel than the others.....50% is more than enough to finish most misions. Sort of even's the playing field a bit

#4336009 - 02/10/17 12:26 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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Panama Red Offline
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Or set your WorkShop setting to "Automixture" and then you will always have the most efficient fuel mixture.


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#4336018 - 02/10/17 01:07 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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The_3rd_Guru Offline
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Tokyo
Thanks all of you for the suggestions (and commiserations).

This was definitely not a mixture issue. (And, Panama Red, Automixture? Really?! seehearspeak) The Nieuport 16s took off and gained massive altitude and speed immediately after take off. This happened instantly and at a low altitude. There was no way a Nieuport 10 could have kept up under any mixture settings unless nitro was injected into the fuel!

Seriously, though, there's no way our 80 HP engines could ever keep up with their 110 HP ones. (Come to think of it, the whole squadron jumped from Nieuport 10s to Nieuport 16s completely bypassing Nieuport 11s. This was odd in itself.)

And, lederhosen, according to the patch notes on from 23 November 2016 , Version 4.08 42411:

* Small reduction in player flight cruise speed to help player's ability to keep up in mixed aircraft type flights when he is not leader

But when I read those patch notes, I wonder how a "reduction in player flight cruise speed" can help said player keep up with the formation! (Perhaps that's just a misprint or else it's assuming the player craft is faster than the others.)

I think, gaw1, you have a good idea. I never thought about that myself. I'll try it out if this happens again.

But, having thought about this some later, although I can't explain why my flight leader left me and the other Nieuport 10 behind, I do think that on their way to the patrol they must have spotted some Germans and pursued them. That must be why I couldn't find them anywhere on the patrol path and why they had seen battle.

Anyway, thanks, all!

#4336024 - 02/10/17 01:17 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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OldHat Offline
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If you like, you can learn to use JJJ's mission editor to address those issues.








#4336034 - 02/10/17 01:44 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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Blackard Offline
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Two things:

Feel lucky, Guru, that you did not get an N-16. smile Only Nieuport that I hate.

Have not looked at mission editor yet, but you can pick the plane that you want to fly with the mission editor?!

#4336038 - 02/10/17 01:49 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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Adger Offline
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I use Triple J,s mission editor Guru..that way you can set the waypoints,and speed of all your flight to your liking mate.
I fly the Alb DI most of the remaining squad have DII,s so if I see in the editor that my waypoints are at 120km speed..I adjust all to 100 so I can keep up more easily thumbsup

Edit..sorry just seen OldHats brilliant explanation

Last edited by Adger; 02/10/17 01:51 PM.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4336082 - 02/10/17 04:22 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: Blackard]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Originally Posted By: Blackard
Two things:

Feel lucky, Guru, that you did not get an N-16. smile Only Nieuport that I hate.

Have not looked at mission editor yet, but you can pick the plane that you want to fly with the mission editor?!


What OldHat and Adger said! smile

And yes, you can pick the plane you want to fly.

For instance, Guru could suit up his entire flight with N11s if he wants. And he can shuffle around and pick the pilots for those planes from a pick list of the historic and generic pilots in his squad.

Or you can change the time of day for your mission and go on bombing missions at night and watch the light show of tracers, searchlights, and explosions.

And what I like is that you can work with your own flight without seeing any other flights unless you want to (both friendly and enemy). So you don't ruin the fog of war and you can keep what you're doing simple. Sometimes I'm in and out of the mission editor in 30 seconds, sometimes I'm there for 30 minutes - depends on what I want to do. You can look at all flights and edit them if you want to, but you have to use a couple more mouse clicks, so you never accidentally see everything at once and ruin the "unknowns" of the mission.

JJJ's mission editor isn't just for geeks, it lets you do a lot of quick tweaks too. smile


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4336132 - 02/10/17 07:14 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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hoongadoonga Offline
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Here's my theory of what may have happened, 3rd Guru.

Each leg of a flight plan has a target altitude. AI planes will go all out until they reach that altitude. In the past that would be at 100% throttle. Recently this was changed so maybe they'll be at 94% throttle until the target altitude is reached. In mismatched flights the fast planes will pull away from the slow ones while climbing to the targeted altitude. Once they reach that altitude they will slow to whatever minimum speed is needed to maintain that altitude. At this point the slower planes will start to catch up since they're still going all out trying to reach that same altitude.

Perhaps the Nieuport 16s encountered the enemy while they were still climbing. They gave chase and by the time your slower Nieuport 10 arrived they were out of sight and engaged in combat far away from the original flight path.

Also, the second Nieuport 10 might have lagged so far behind you because of engine problems.

#4336148 - 02/10/17 07:53 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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cptroyce Offline
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Just an additional thought and I am not terribly familiar with the intricacies of JJJ's great Mission Editor; but couldn't Guru use the editor to open the campaign mission of the flight he was on after the fact, tick the Enemy Flights box and see what exactly transpired with the others in his flight?

Last edited by cptroyce; 02/10/17 07:53 PM.
#4336310 - 02/11/17 12:34 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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The_3rd_Guru Offline
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Tokyo
Thank you, everyone!

We've all become like detectives sifting through the myriad burnt and twisted remains of a crash looking for that one spark of inspiration that will give the definitive clue to the demise of the plane.

The Mission Editor solution seems ideal! That would also help me to make more historically accurate sorties for the L'Escadrille Américaine. I really want to get rid of the randomly-generated pilot who has nothing to do with the historical escadrille.

However, I have a serious problem.

No matter what I try I cannot get the Mission Editor jar file to launch! I've seriously tried everything!

I'm running Windows 10, and this seems to be a common problem. You double-click the jar file; it seems to start to load, and then . . . nothing.

In the original Mission Editor thread, DukeIronHand had this problem and solved it by downloading a program called JAR Runner. I too downloaded this, and . . . nothing. I then found another "solution" of making a bat file to run it directly. I did this, and it starts to load, and then . . . nothing. I then found another "solution" of downloading a program called Jarfix. I did so, and . . . nothing.

The odd thing is that after doing all of these things, I tried to run a different jar file, and . . . that one worked! I have java on my computer and it is updated to the current version. Many other of my programs use java, so I know it's there and it's working correctly.

However, for some strange reasons the WOFF Mission Editor won't load. And without it loading, I cannot make all these wonderful changes all of you have recommended. (And I dearly want to use the Mission Editor. I looks like the magic balm to solve many of my woes.)

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm exhausted looking for solutions!

Edit: I just downloaded some more jar files, and they didn't work either. So I'm stumped now. I got one jar file to work. But the others do not work. However, java is installed and it registers elsewhere.

Last edited by The_3rd_Guru; 02/11/17 12:40 PM.
#4336326 - 02/11/17 01:37 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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The_3rd_Guru Offline
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The_3rd_Guru  Offline
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Tokyo
Oh, lordy . . .

I just wasted two hours trying to get it to work, and after going through the Mission Editor thread here on the forums, I suddenly realized that I didn't have the Mission Editor library folder. This was mentioned for the first time that I could coherently understand on page 16 of that thread. I downloaded that and together with the most recent Mission Editor jar file, the program finally worked!

I have to admit that for a new person who never participated in that thread, finding out how to run this program is a huge mess. Even Sandbagger's wonderful mods page just links to this confusing forum thread.

It might be a good idea (for new WOFFers like me) for that information to be more clearly presented.

Anyway, it's working now, but I'm too exhausted to try it out in sim.

Thanks again, everyone. And thank you especially, OldHat, for your excellent descriptions.

#4336331 - 02/11/17 01:57 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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It would be great if someone fully familiar with this mod would put together a comprehensive instructional manual with screen captures and then Provide us as a "ReadMe" file to go with the mod. Any volunteers?

Last edited by Robert_Wiggins; 02/11/17 03:53 PM.

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#4336334 - 02/11/17 02:45 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Robert_Wiggins
It would be great if someone fully familiar with this mod would put together a comprehensive instructional manual with screen captures and then orovide ut as a "ReadMe" fule to go with the mod. Any voluntwers?

That is great idea. I can help to answer any questions, if needed. Unfortunatelly, my English is really poor to create full manual.

#4336356 - 02/11/17 05:06 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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cptroyce Offline
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JJJ


Your English is good enough for us IMHO.
All your post seem just fine to me. I'd love to have a nice step by step as well, with some advice on everything your fantastic program can do! cheers

#4336358 - 02/11/17 05:22 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: JJJ65]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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Originally Posted By: JJJ65
Originally Posted By: Robert_Wiggins
It would be great if someone fully familiar with this mod would put together a comprehensive instructional manual with screen captures and then orovide ut as a "ReadMe" fule to go with the mod. Any voluntwers?

That is great idea. I can help to answer any questions, if needed. Unfortunatelly, my English is really poor to create full manual.


JJJ65;

Let me make a further suggestion. Why don't you take a crack at writing up something with supporting screen captures and we can run it by everyone to see if they have any suggestions on how to improve it. You are after all, the creator of the mod and therefore can make sure all the important stuff is there in the document. After a few rounds we should have something very good and then if the English language is an issue we can clean it up. I'm sure everyone here is willing to critique it and help refine the document.

What do you say?


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4336388 - 02/11/17 07:52 PM Re: Campaign Wackiness [Re: The_3rd_Guru]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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JJJ65  Offline
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OMG, it seems you want to kill me, Robert dizzy. Honestly, I would prefer to do programming for whole day than write even one short English article. Pls, do not ask me to do it. BTW, that is why I asked HarryH to write a Mission Editor tutorial and I was very appreciated with it. Maybe he could update this manual?

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